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A MESSAGE FROM THE MODERATOR

The Clegg Series site was established in December of 1996 to provide an opportunity for people of African descent and others to present uncensored information about Black History and culture. Our intention was to create a forum for a broad, provocative and respectful exchange of ideas.

 Unfortunately, over the past month the entries into our popular guestbook have degenerated into rude, vulgar and racist name-calling. While we certainly encourage controversy, we don’t believe that personal or racial insults are appropriate. Let us continue our dialogue on a constructive level.

During the existence of our site, the major point of contention has been whether the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. It is quite understandable that this issue would stir up heated passions. For nearly two hundred years now, White scholars have removed Black people from Egypt, Egypt from Africa and Africa from world history. They have always taught that Egypt is in the Near East, the Middle East, the Mediterranean and even the Fertile Crescent. They have never informed the world that Egypt is and always has been on the Continent of Africa.

While White publishers controlled everything written and taught about Africa - - and often published books stating that the Ancient Egyptians were White - - no one, except Black people, complained. However, since Black people began publishing their own work and using the internet to tell our story, suddenly everyone is interested in setting Black people straight by insisting that the Ancient Egyptians were neither Black nor white, but Arabs, like the Arabs of today.

We disagree. Arabs invaded Egypt in the 7th Century AD, long after Ancient Egyptian civilization had declined and faded away. Arabs have no more connection to Ancient Egypt than Europeans have to Ancient America.

Many have argued that, even if the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans, modern African Americans, who lay claim to Egyptian civilization, are not akin to them because their ancestors were West Africans. This reflects a lack of knowledge about African history. Virtually all West African people trace their ancestry to the northeast and ultimately to the Nile Valley. A number of Black scholars have revealed evidence of the ancient migratory trail from the Nile across the continent to West Africa and the Atlantic Ocean. Therefore, modern African Americans do indeed have a direct link to the Ancient Egyptian people.

We understand that most White people and Arabs have great difficulty imagining Black Africans to have laid the foundation of civilization. We sincerely regret that Western racist propaganda has so narrowed their worldview. But, at this site we deal with evidence - - not propaganda, not passion, not preconceived notions or white supremacy.

In our bi-monthly MA’AT newsletter, we present evidence that the main-stream media will not touch, because it would destroy racist myths that have been embraced as inviolable truths by millions around the world. If you find this site to be at variance with your sacred belief system, please avoid visiting us. After all contrary opinions prevail in most other forums. Why not express your views on those sites where you may comfortably reassure people of like mind?

In the meantime, for those of you who chose to study, evaluate and critique the Africentric perspective on the origin of the Ancient Egyptians, we invite you to visit the February, 1997 issue of MA’AT. This monumental document presents a substantial body of evidence that conventional scholars, both Arab and European, choose to ignore.

Many Black scholars have presented the Africentric view on the "race" of the Ancient Egyptians. Their research has triggered a reevaluation of certain assumptions. For example, most Black Africans do not have thick lips and broad noses. There are four distinct Black African physical types. All were part of the Ancient Egyptian population. Secondly Ancient Egyptian drawings were largely conventional. This means that they clearly had a symbolic meaning that was not true to form. For example, the traditional reddish brown color used to portray all men (no matter what their true skin tone) may have represented the African "blood of life" concept. For religious purposes, Black Africans have painted their bodies red or reddish brown from time immemorial.

Therefore, one should not reach hard and fast conclusions about Egyptian ethnicity based on the color used in the tomb and pyramid drawings. Furthermore, even if the colors are accurate depictions of the people, a number of indigenous, unmixed Africans, like the Pygmies, have reddish brown skin tone. Yet no one would deny that these are "Black" African people. In light of this, if the Ancient Egyptians were indeed of reddish brown skin color, they were of the same color as modern Pygmies.

As many writers in the guestbook have attempted to explain, the original Black Egyptians were mixed with invading Libyans, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Arabs and Western Europeans. This explains the genetic status of the modern Egyptian, who does not resemble his Black African forebears.

To truly determine the Ancient Egyptian "race," one must consider the full range of linguistic cultural, anatomical, archaeological and genetic evidence. One recent, nonblack scholar, Richard Poe ("Black Spark: White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilize Ancient Europe") (Prima Publishing, Rocklin, CA), has done just that and has reached the following conclusion: "Were the Egyptians black? That is entirely up to up to you. But were they biologically African? It would seem that they were."

We, of course, believe that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans and the following is a synopsis of some of the evidence that supports our view:

  1. Evidence from Physical Anthropology

  2. The skeletons and skulls of the Ancient Egyptians clearly reflect that they were a Negroid people with features very similar to those of modern Black Nubians and other people of the Upper Nile and of East Africa.
     
  3. Melanin Dosage Test

  4. Egyptologist Cheikh Anta Diop invented a method for determining the level of melanin in the skin of human beings. When conducted on Egyptian mummies in the Museum of Man in Paris, this test indicated that these remains were of Black people.
     
  5. Osteological Evidence

  6. "Lepsius canon," which distinguishes the bodily proportions of various racial groups categories the "ideal Egyptian" as "short-armed and of Negroid or Negrito physical type."
     
  7. Evidence From Blood Types

  8. Diop notes that even after hundreds of years of inter-mixture with foreign invaders, the blood type of modern Egyptians is the "same group B as the populations of western Africa on the Atlantic seaboard and not the A2 Group characteristic of the white race prior to any crossbreeding."
     
  9. The Egyptians as They Saw Themselves

  10. "The Egyptians had only one term to designate themselves =kmt= the negroes (literally). This is the strongest term existing in the Pharaonic tongue to indicate blackness; it is accordingly written with a hieroglyph representing a length of wood charred at the end and not crocodile scales," singular. ‘Kmt’ from the adjective =kmt= black; it therefore means strictly negroes or at the very least black men. The term is a collective noun which thus described the whole people of pharaonic Egypt as a black people."
     
  11. Divine Epithets

  12. Diop demonstrates that "black or negro" is the divine epithet invariably used for the chief beneficent Gods of Egypt, while the evil spirits were depicted as red.
     
  13. Evidence From the Bible
  14. The Bible states that "…[t]he sons of Ham [were] Cush and Mizraim [i.e. Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah and Sabtechah." According to Biblical tradition, Ham, of course, was the father of the Black race. "Generally speaking all semitic tradition (Jewish and Arab) class ancient Egypt with the countries of the black."
     

  15. Cultural unity of Egypt With The Rest of Africa

  16. Through a study of circumcision and totemism, Diop gives detailed data showing cultural unity between Egypt and the rest of Africa.
     
  17. Linguistic Unity With Southern and Western Africa

  18. In a detailed study of languages, Diop clearly demonstrates that Ancient Egyptian, modern Coptic of Egypt and Walaf of West Africa are related, with the latter two having their origin in the former.
     
  19. Testimony of Classical Greek and Roman Authors

  20. Virtually all of the early Latin eyewitnesses described the Ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with wooly hair.
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NOTICE TO OUR GUESTS

Please be advised that, since Saturday, November 6, 1999, the guestbook at The Clegg Series has not been open for comment. We are making adjustments on the site which should be completed by Thursday, November 11. Until that time, feel free to read the recent entries as well as those in the archives. We look forward to resuming receipt of your entries after our project is completed.

Legrand H. Clegg, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT newsletter <clegg@melanet.com>
Age: r, USA - Tuesday, November 09, 1999 at 08:18:49 (EST)


our brothers and sisters.... LET GET IT OVER NOW!!!!! DON'T FIGHTINH YOUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF AMERICA ONLY.. IF YOU WERE STRANGERS IN A LAND AMERICA. YOU ARE STILL STRANGER AND I AM STRANGER IN THIS AMERICAN LANDS..BECAUSE WE WERE THE CHILDREN OF HEBREW SLAVES CAME INTO THIS NORTH AMERICA FOR SLAVE.. WE ARE THE SAME STRANGERS TO GET TOGETHER.... JUST JUST LET THEM GO AND FORGET ABOUT THEM WHO THE ENEMY UNTO US. THEY KNEW THAT YOU AND ME ARE THE SLAVES OF THE MOST HIGH GOD AND THEY KNEW THAT THERE IS A ONLY PROPHET IN AMERICA HERE TO GLORY OVER THIS WORLD... WHY YOU FORGETTEN ABOUT US AND LOOKING ON EGYPT.. YOU {THE BLACKS} KNOW THAT YOU AND OUR WERE SLAVES IN EGYPT THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE ... WE REALLY NEEED YOU OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THIS BLACK NATION ONLY WHO WERE SLAVES IN AMERICA... YOU JUST FIGHT AGAINST WHITE WHO ENEMIES US FOR OUR THE BLACK NATION COULD BE FREE FROM THIS EMEMIES OF THE BLACK NATION ... LET FORGET THIS NOW AND LET IT GO FOR OUR SAKE .. JUST JION WITH OUR THE BLACK NATION ..... LIKE WE BUILDING THIS RE- BLACK NATION JUST ALIKE BUILDING OUR TEMPLE THAT WHITE COULDN'T AGAINIST US.. LET US CREATE THIS THE NEW BLACK NATION IN OUR OWN IMAGE THEIR SPIRIT. THIS WILL BE COME SOON TO BORN A NEW BABY TO BLACK NATION .. DONT WORRY ABOUT EGYPT AND LET THEM [ WHITE OR HISPANICS] TO TAKE CARE OF CRAPS ABOUT EGYPT .... GOD GIFTED YOU AND OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS BY BIBLE WORD IN YOUR MIND .... BECAUSE YOU AND YOUR FOREFATHERS WERE SLAVES FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. AND YOU KNEW THAT WE ARE THE ONLY NATION THIS AMERICA HERE UNLIKE OTHER NATION IN WORLD.. LET COME AND JOIN WITH US TO CREATE THIS NEW NAME AND THE SIGN OF BLACK NATION OF GOD WILL NOT SCATTER OVER THIS COUNTRY [AMERICA]LIKE IN GENESIS 11:1-9... LET GO AND FORGET ABOUT THEM ... THINKING OF US AND OUR THE BUILDING NATION FOR BLACK COMMUNITY IN NORTH AMERICA LIKE THE RE-RISE OF THE BLACK MESSIAH LIGHT TO WORLD IN THE END OF ALMIGHTY GOD. AMEN PRIASE THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL'S RIGHT HAND ON OUR HEAD SEPARATE FROM THEM CALLED LIES AND ENEMIES..... I AM NOT GOING TO SPEAK TO THE WORLD BUT GOD COMMANDED ME TO SAYING TO OUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE ONLY NATION SLAVE IN AMERICA..... JUST GET IT OVER NOW ..... MY FRIEND... I AM PROUD AN ANCERTORS OF SLAVES CAME FROM THE ANCIENT NATION ISRAEL THIS OUR ETERNAL LIFETIME! AMEN ...

the Night Prophet
Jer-USA-lem the Heavenly city of the America, CA USA - Saturday, November 06, 1999 at 05:57:54 (EST)


Dear Bryan, You and so many white people are insecure because of your genetically recessive albino mutant status. Everyone knows that in the animal kingdom albino rabbits, tigers, lions, monkeys, mice, etc. are inferior to the original stock. Just as your forefathers who lynched black men and then took their penises home with them (to eat them, I presume, so they could pretend that they were REAL men), you feel terrified by the very thought of black African majesty. "GET OVER IT!!!" As Mr. Clegg pointed out in one of the old News letters, black people are the genetically dominant parents of the human family. They laid down the foundation of civilization all over the world (for example you mentioned China, in China the earliest Shang Dynasties were black and they have found pyramids in China associated with them). Also, you claim that Chinese civilization may be the oldest in the world, but new information shows that the black Sphinx of Egypt may be 12,000 years old. Now try to beat that! White people do not represent evolution, they represent devolution. You say that black people are ape-like. Apes have thin lips, flat bottoms and hairy bodies. That sounds white to me. Also, you claim that the Egyptians referred to the people of Kush as wretched. Why don't you study your own European history? The Greeks, Romans and other Europeans all referred to Western Europeans and Nordics (who now claim to be the ancestors of the Greeks and Romans) to have been wild, barbaric savages. Does this mean to you that since the Greeks and Romans hated Northern Europeans, that the Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans were different races. Get it through your thick skull that Africa was and always has been the land of the blacks. The Egyptians and the people of Kush may have been bitter enemies, as you say, but they were also of the same racial group. Why don't you stop insulting black people, take your racist butt to another site, and get a life?

Ramses The Black
Age: 42, USA - Saturday, November 06, 1999 at 01:14:48 (EST)


get over it wrote: "THE VAST MAJORITY OF EGYPTIANS ARE AND WERE A OLIVE SKINNED" They had green skin?!

X-Dude
USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 21:21:26 (EST)


i would like to suggest, as an african american, that we stop all insults on this site. also, i would like to propose that we create a system whereby we can systematically accumulate all of the data that proves that the egyptians were black. this should include everything written about them by the HEBREWS, GREEKS , and ROMANS, etc. ultimately, the truth will prevail.

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 20:16:06 (EST)


Brothers and sisters....I have been "SLIMED" again! I want to reference a books: "The Isis Papers" and "CULTURE BANDITS" which many of you are familiar with already. Olives are green or so-called jet Black. Since I have never seen a green person I am to conclude what we have been saying....our ancient Egyptian ancestors were and are Black Africans. Why are these people so afraid of our finding ourselves my brothers? Fantastic article brother Clegg. You laid them out and gave me much food for thought! We are proud to come to this site where the opinions of white people do not matter and learn of our glorious heritage. Please keep feeding us the knowledge. HOTEP

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 20:03:38 (EST)


Thutmos,in regards to crime in this country Black crime is to obvious to try and deny.In the capital of Virginia,Richmond has had the highest murder rate or at least the second highest murder rate in the nation. Our onnly competition has come from other Negro cities such as New Orleans, and Washington D.C.. You mentioned the FBI Uniform Crime Report as proof of a higher White crime rate.However, the Uniform Crime Report does not list Hispanics as a group because they are lumped in with White crime and Hispanics are now getting ready to surpass negroes in population and become the largest minority.Civil Rights leaders are always complaining about how one third of young black men are in trouble with the law.Millions of whites have left our cities as they have been turned into crime filled African jungles! The Uniform Crime Report does an excellent job of showing the disproportionate rate of black crime.In terms of murder, robbery,rape,and assault blacks are much more likely to commit these crimes than all other groups put together.If you look at rape black males are arrested 42 percent of the time and you are only 13 percent of the U.S population.This trend is even worse for murder and robbery! You will probably come back with a bunch of lies but I encourage people to do exactly what you said and look up the FBI Uniform Crime Report for yourself and see.Also look at how our once civilized cities have been turned into jungles!!!!!!! You seem to like to call whites "melanin deficient" and "trailor trash" but whites dont want that AWFUL STINKY MELANIN that makes me feel sick whenever I smell it! In regards to "trailor trash" I easily respond by saying I dont care what some HALF EVOLVED GHETTO APE says about me or whites in general.All you do is write messages on this website all day because you are a looser with nothing better to do!

Jim
VA USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 12:39:09 (EST)


We are again faced with some White guests who insist on insulting people of African descent. They claim that we are genetically inferior and have no history; that Africa has always been a vast wasteland and that Black people are the pariahs of the human race. One writer has even asked if Black people were the only people on this planet for 200,000 years, why didn't we achieve more during that time? These are the assertions and questions of a people who are the victims of miseducation, propaganda and Eurocentrism. At this site we understand their plight and pity them, but our focus is not to seek their enlightenment or conversion. OUR MISSION IS TO EDUCATE BLACK PEOPLE. Part of our education must be to free ourselves of the false paradigms and self-serving Eurocentric constraints that even we have fallen victim to. For example, most indigenous people do not view history in the linear fashion that Europeans do. The Western view is that primitive Blacks evolved in Africa, civilization emerged in the Mediterranean and finally, following the age of Enlightenment and Imperialism, we have reached the last word in human achievement with our modern bombs, toothpaste and pornography. In Africa, Asia, Australia, the New World, etc., people of color view the world as having experienced several great ages of cultural emergence, evolution, maturity and destruction. For example, according to Maya tradition, the Fourth Age or Sun was destroyed by a great flood and the current, Fifth Age, will end, perhaps by cataclysmic earthquakes, on December 23, 2012. Virtually all indigenous people insist that there was a very great Golden Age that existed on the earth thousands of years ago and that this age was destroyed, as the Maya tradition holds, by a great flood. Many also insist that this age was far more technologically advanced than the world is today. Western scholars, as a whole, reject all of this and suppress, distort or ignore any and all evidence that confirms it. We believe that the reason for their myopia is because they do not want the people of the planet to know that human beings have exceeded the current so-called pinnacle of civilization in the past. Nevertheless, there are some White authorities who have broken ranks with tradition. They include Graham Hancock, Richard Hoagland, Colin Wilson, Zecharia Sitchin, Rand and Rose Flem-Ath, Robert Schoch and others. If one studies the history of this planet and closely observes its people, you will see the widespread presence of Blacks. The Grimaldis of prehistoric Europe, the Elamites and Chaldeans of Western Asia, the Davidians of India, the Australoids of Southern China, Southeast Asia and Australia and the variety of pre-Columbia Blacks, such as the Olmecs, who occupied the New World in antiquity. We believe that there was indeed a great flood in antiquity and that the world it destroyed was a vast Black empire that had reached extraordinary technological heights worldwide. Evidence of these people, their culture and achievements may be found in the Journals of African Civilization published over the past 20 years by Professor Ivan Van Sertima at Rutger University. Another point, which is gradually gaining ground today, is the likelihood that ancient people were advanced enough to engage in extraterrestrial or space travel. This may sound fantastic, but it is not. As NASA knows, may ancient people have left records of flying machines and numerous people also have traditions of extraterrestrial origins. Our interest in this was kindled by a tradition of the Hopi Indians that during the Third World or Sun their people visited the Moon. Investigating the possibility that ancient people may have engaged in space travel, we found that Soviet Scientists take this issue very seriously and that some Western authorities have documented it. (See "We Discovered Alien Bases On The Moon," by Fred Steckling, 1981). It appears that obelisks and other monuments have been found on the Moon and that they are mathematically synchronized with the monuments on the Gizen plateau in Egypt. The following article, which sheds light on this subject, was published in the April, 1998 issue of the MA'AT newsletter. Before you shrug your shoulders and walk away, please read this information so that you will see the lengths to which Western scientists will go to suppress BLACK HISTORY-even when such knowledge would be of immeasurable benefit to the human race. Suppression of this and other startling evidence allows racists to gather at our site and smugly prate about their alleged superiority. Our MA'AT readership is comprised of a highly educated, well read, open minded, conscious group of truth seekers. Bearing this in mind, we carefully investigate information on Black history and culture that we think will be of interest to our subscribers. We are keenly aware that the Western academic, scientific and media establishments have consciously suppressed, distorted or ignored the true history of African people and their descendants in the diaspora. So much so that revelations of today, which were widely known and acknowledged in antiquity, are often dismissed as exaggerations, tall tales and "feel good history." In other words, the Black truths of yesteryear have been swept away by the White lies of today; and the latter are so entrenched, ubiquitous and respected that, in the modern world, TRUTH must prove itself to an often skeptical and even hostile public. Hence, to a world accustomed to viewing African people as genetically inferior, steeped in squalor, starvation and internecine warfare, and light years behind the march of civilization -- the ancient Egyptians could not have been Black, Africans did not sail to the New World thousands of years before Columbus and the medieval Blackamoors, who civilized Western Europe, were "not Negroes." Well, if the skeptics have felt that we have been brash in resurrecting the ancient tradition of the Black origin of civilization, this issue of MA'AT will give them even greater cause for astonishment and disbelief. In light of NASA's recent effort to cover-up evidence of the African face on Mars (in spite of a barrage of calls, letters and protests from around the world challenging their conclusions) and their apparent ignoring of other monuments on the Red Planet, we believe that it is time to introduce a new dimension of Black history to our readership. Mounting geological, archaeological, astronomical, anthropological and testimonial evidence indicates that a very great civilization flourished on this planet as late as twelve thousand years ago, and was destroyed by a cataclysmic event, universally referred to as "The Flood," between 11,000 and 9,000 B.C.3 Furthermore, compelling data suggest that this civilization was Black, centered in Upper Egypt and may indeed have been interplanetary in its scope and influence.4 The foregoing theory, in one form or another, has garnered the support of a broad cross-section of scientists, scholars and other authorities. In this issue of MA'AT, we shed further light on this view by presenting startling evidence, long suppressed in this country by NASA, of what appear to be very ancient man-made structures on the moon! In the August issue of MA'AT, we revealed that a growing number of professionals in physics, engineering, cartography, mathematics, systems science, anthropology, architecture, art, history, theology and other fields have done massive research and published thought-provoking articles and books on what appear to be pyramids, a sphinx ("the face") and other structures on Mars. Since the August issue of MA'AT, a new book, "The Case For The Face" A compilation of papers by a number of scientists, has been published on the Martian face.5 We now know that Mars is not the only celestial body that appears to have evidence of "man-made" structures. The Moon does too. What's more, scientists in the former Soviet Union first published this information in the 1960's and it was a hot topic of discussion on college and university campuses in their country at the time. While the Soviets revealed the discoveries, NASA also photographed them but refused to publicize their findings. Hence, even today, over thirty years later, NASA is mute about the apparently unnatural structures on the moon. Fortunately, there are two books that provide photographs of these extraordinary structures on the Moon (See drawings at our website) and give some insight as to their discovery, location and dimensions. David H. Childless, Extraterrestrial Archaeology: Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, Stelle, Illinois, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994. Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder, Psychic Discoveries, New York, Marlowe & Company, 1997. The publisher of "Psychic Discoveries" has granted MA'AT permission to reprint an excerpt from the book in this issue of the newsletter. We would highly recommend that our subscribers obtain Psychic Discoveries, which is an updated edition of Psychic Discoveries Behind The Iron Curtain, first published in 1970. This extraordinary book is promoted as "The Iron Curtain Lifted -- all new revelations of long suppressed, explosive secrets and discoveries from Prague to Moscow to Siberia." The revelations in Psychic Discoveries range from medical breakthroughs, superlearning programs and mind control techniques to "Eyeless sight," Kirlian photography and time machines. Ostrander, Schroeder and other scholars are urging us to view history from a broader, more conventional perspective, just as our ancestors did before the rise, spread and triumph of Western thought. Author William Fix provides a succinct recapitulation of the traditional view of world history: "The legends of humanity the world over are remarkably consistent in describing the oldest peoples and nations as having what seemed godlike powers. Consistently we hear of vanished nations and gods who could travel and build at will, who lived in another age of the earth terminated by disaster, and who set cultural patterns that endured for thousands of years. Long con- sidered by western anthropologists as the fantasies of children, the substance of the ancient legends has been increasingly supported by discoveries in many fields.4" Is it possible that a very advanced, worldwide, antediluvian civilization, centered in Upper Egypt and Nubia, sent astronauts to the moon? Increasing evidence suggests that such voyages did take place in remote antiquity. The following excerpt from Psychic Discoveries lends credence to this theory. Footnotes 1 Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder, Psychic Discoveries, Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, New York, Marlowe & Company, 1997, Illus. 25 (caption). 2 David H. Childless, Extraterrestrial Archaeology: Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, Stelle, Illinois, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994, p. 33. 3 D.S. Allan & J.B. Delair, Cataclysm: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C., Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1997. Paul LaViolette, Earth Under Fire: Humanity's Survival of the Apocalypse, Schenectady, New York, 1997. 4William R. Fix, Pyramid Odyssey, Urbanna, Virginia, Mercury Media, Inc. 1984. The Search For Lost Origins, edited by Atlantis Rising, Livingston, Mt. Atlantic Rising Books, 1996. (Special attention should be devoted to parts two, three and six of the book). 5 We do not yet have information regarding the publisher of this book; however, specifics regarding this may be obtained by calling 1-800-228-8381. 6 Fix, Op. cit., p. 212. -------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted From: Psychic Discoveries by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder (Marlowe & Company: New York, 1997) http://www. superlearning.com WHO ELSE WENT TO THE MOON? "There's something very odd on the moon. Russia's Luna 9 first photographed what seemed to be artificially-made structures. America's Orbiter 2 photographed them too. In Russia, space engineer Dr. Abramov gave us pictures and a complex mathematical analysis of these bizarre 'ruins.' He thought they were of startling importance. Today, new archaeological and scientific discoveries make these egnimatic? photos even more compelling. To check their authenticity we consulted our friend, Dr. Ivan Sanderson, UFO expert, former British intelligence officer, and science editor of Argosy. Sanderson's space-agency sources confirmed the photos were genuine. (Only later did we discover that NASA had classified hundreds of lunar photos of certain locations and refuses to release them to this day.) The photos taken by Orbiter 2 on November 20, 1966, over the moon's Sea of Tranquility show eight pointed spires shaped like the Washington Monument and Cleopatra's needle - the ancient Egyptian obelisk now in Central Park in New York. The sun was eleven degrees above the horizon so scientists could calculate the height of the structures from their shadows. The tallest "obelisk" is the size of a fifteen story building! The smallest of the group is the height of a large fir tree. In America, William Blair of the Boeing Institute of Biotechnology analyzed the arrangement of the strange structures and concluded that they were in triangular alignments with each other. The obelisks formed six isosceles triangles. That certainly couldn't have just happened by chance, he figured. Situated beside them, he noted a rectangular "depression" that looked like an excavation whose walls had eroded. It all looked like the work of intelligent beings. Blair called for an archaeological assessment to help unveil the mystery of what were dubbed "the Blair Cuspids." In Russia, Alexander Ambrov already had the archaeological approach in hand. Besides being a space engineer, he was also steeped in Egyptology and the geometry of the pyramids. When he looked at the configuration of the strange objects photographed by the lunar orbiters, bells went off. He began calculating. The configurations of the pyramids at Gizeh near Cairo can be set out precisely on something called in ancient Egypt, an "abaka" - a grid or table of forty-nine squares. Pyramids are arranged on this grid in a very specific way. Abramov applied the grid to the lunar structures. And felt the flush of discovery. The obelisks on the moon are arranged on this grid in the exact same pattern as the pyramids. The distribution of these lunar objects, states Abramov, is like the plan of the Egyptian pyramids Cheops, Chephren, and Mankura at Gizeh. The tips of the obelisks in this lunar 'abaka' occupy precisely the same points as the tops of the three great pyramids." This is the discovery Abramov pressed on us. Structures on the moon and the pyramids outside Cairo are built on the same precise geometric pattern! It was hard to imagine this was by chance. It was also hard to imagine what that might mean. With Sanderson, in Argosy (August 1970), we broke the news in the West. Abramov continued corresponding with Sheila for years. Then, more recently, a couple of bells went off in our heads. A few years ago, NASA consultant Richard Hoagland and his team brought wide attention to the supposed "Face On Mars." The Face isn't alone on Mars, Hoagland reported. There are other seemingly artificial structures. Articles and photos began circulating saying that these structures were arranged on the same pattern as monuments in ancient Egypt, and Britain. It sounded familiar. A bigger bell went off when Robert Bauval and Adrian Gilbert unveiled secrets about the pyramids hidden for thousands of years. In The Orion Mystery, they published results of a ten year investigation which makes a convincing case that a specific plan for the arrangement of the pyramids was created before the first was built, and was carried forward through the years by the great pharaohs. What's the plan? With great astronomical precision, the three pyramids are arranged to form a map of the three bright stars in Orion's belt. If they are right, and Ambrov's right, then the mystery is cloning. The pyramids in Egypt form a map of Orion. The obelisks on the moon in the same arrangement then also form a map of Orion- from earth's point of view. Is there a message? IS IT GETTING CROWDED ON THE MOON? Soviet probe Luna 9 landed at the Ocean of Storms on February 4, 1966. Ivan Sanderson examined the Luna photos we'd obtained. "There are two straight lines of equidistant stones that look like markers along an airport runway." he observed. "These circular stones are all identical, and are positioned at an angle that produces a strong reflection from the sun." Even stranger, each stone is incised with two perfect circles, one on each side. Luna shifted as it photographed so the Society had a double set of photos at different angles, allowing investigators to set up a 3-D stereoscopic view of the long "stone runway." One of the U.S.S.R.'s most prestigious scientists, Dr. S. Ivanov, inventor of stereo movies in the U.S.S.R. and winner of the Laureate State Prize (the Soviet equivalent of the Nobel Prize), and engineer A. Brukonenko published a startling analysis of these photos along with Abramov's data on the mysterious moon monuments in the Soviet magazine Technology for Youth (November 5, 1969). To their surprise the stone markers were spaced at precise, regular intervals. "The objects as seen in 3-D seem to be arranged according to definite geometric laws." Ivanov concluded. They were unquestionably "planned structures," and the pointed spires (obelisks), he said, were not natural formations but "Artificial structures of alien origin." "The moon's stones shout a message to mankind!" declared the Soviet analysts. The discoveries attracted serious attention in Russian universities, our professor friends told us. Sanderson speculated: "Is the origin of the obelisks on the earth and those on the moon the same?" What is the purpose of an obelisk anyway, and why did the ancients go to all the trouble of making them? We added our own wonderings. Could obelisks be some form of psychotronic generator related to flight? Recently translated Sanskrit astronautics texts reveal ancient humans had developed saucerlike flying craft call "vimanas." Could the ancients have reached the moon? Or did ancient astronauts travel to both moon and earth, leaving their unique signature and even guide maps on both locations? In his many years of correspondence with us, Dr. Abramov repeatedly emphasized, "The solutions to the mysteries of the moon, UFOs, and the early monuments of Britain like Stonehenge, can all be found in ancient Egypt." "This discovery [of alien moon structures] must be heralded as among the most important discoveries made by either the American or Soviet space program!" says David Hatcher Childless of the Russian analysis of these moon photos in his book Extra-terrestrial Archaeology. "But strangely enough . . . they have been ignored." Or have they? The enigma deepens. Childless's 1994 book makes public hundreds more Soviet and American space-agency and astronomical photos of the moon that reveal dozens of strange artifacts: Seeming pyramids, tunnels, bridges, moving objects that appear and disappear. And there's more -- official NASA photos of large cigar-shaped and saucer-shaped, glowing UFO's traveling near the moon in and out of its craters. Soviet cosmonauts are not the only ones seeing UFO's. American astronauts took many of these photos and films during Apollo missions. The first Apollo mission landed at the Sea of Tranquillity where the mysterious moon obelisks are located. Based on Russian space sources, Dr. Vladimir Azhazha claims, "Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But this message was never heard by the public - because NASA censored it." Armstrong denies ever seeing UFO's. Maurice Chatelain, former Chief of NASA Communications Systems, who has appeared in numerous UFO documentaries, was quoted in Nexus Magazine -- "Armstong saw two UFO's on the rim of a crater." He added," . . . all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin . . . The astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence." Nexus reports that Chatelain, in April, 1996, dropped the "bombshell revelation" that the Apollo Moon Mission found "several mysterious geometric structures of unnatural origin on the moon." It's hard to unravel the claims and counterclaims about UFO's. Some American astronauts speak readily to sighting UFO's as jet pilots. But they deny seeing them in space. All except one, perhaps. Former astronaut, Dr. Brian O'Leary, speaking at the International Forum on New Science in Fort Collins, Colorado, September 18, 1994, declared flatly, "We have contact with alien cultures . . ." He believes the suppression of fifty years of data was orchestrated by the secrecy apparatus of interlocking intelligence and security agencies. "The Cosmic Watergate" he said, "of UFO, alien, mind-control, genetic engineering, free-energy, antigravity-propulsion, and other secrets will make Watergate and Irangate appear to be kindergarten exercises. But," he asserts, "the truth will and must be known eventually." Is the moon a UFO base for earth reconnaissance? Were Apollo astronauts, while collecting moon rocks, actually extraterrestrial archaeologists examining "ruins?" Is this the most explosive secret of all -- half a century of suppressed evidence of alien encounters and activities? Could the big Soviet-American push into psi research have another facet-motivated not only by the Cold War, but also by the urgent need to cope with ETs? In 1966, Dr. Courtney Brown claimed in his book Cosmic Voyage that for years, U.S. intelligence and defense agencies have been using remote-viewing clairvoyants to try to track UFOs visiting earth. Could the costly Soviet Tesla projects and the U.S.'s HAARP-- which use the ionosphere for surveillance of space around the planet and deep inside the earth and oceans - have another, more covert defense purpose? With the Cold War over and many missiles dismantled, could these tracking systems also be monitoring UFOs? Could the hypersecret Soviet development of psychotronic weapons have been not only for defense against Westerners, but against the superior technology of ETs? On March 21, 1996, a briefing was held at Washington's National Press Club, about thirty-year old "suppressed evidence" of manufactured artifacts on the moon. Richard Hoagland and a panel of scientists revealed that photos and film of lunar artifacts have undergone four years of sophisticated analysis and enhancement by the latest scientific and computer technologies -- methods that did not exist thirty years ago when the photos were taken. "These official mission films provide compelling scientific evidence for the presence of ancient artificial structures on the moon," says Hoagland. Computer-enhanced photos of Apollo 12 astronaut Alan Bean on the moon supposedly show he's actually standing in front of a huge domed tier -- a "ruin" towering above and behind the lunar module Intrepid. NASA has been airbrushing photos, according to Hoagland. The basic purpose of the Apollo program, he claims, "was to send Americans directly to these ruins, to record them on film and to bring back physical evidence (including manufactured artifacts) for analysis on earth." If that's true, why was there such a massive cover-up? Hoagland believes thirty years ago people weren't ready to digest the news about the moon's surface- "Hard physical ruins left by a race of obviously superior beings," he says, would have "collapsed civilization." As we speed toward the millennium, there's a growing consensus from a host of sources that humanity is heading for a rendezvous with destiny - heading toward acknowledging the wondrous and terrifying news. "We are not alone" - heading towards the shift to "galactic consciousness." Recent archaeological discoveries, revelations of Native American spiritual leaders, chronicles of many ancient cultures from India to South America - all point to centuries-old visitations by extraterrestrials. And the prediction that the time has come for them to return here again. Humanity's own origins are shrouded in mystery...."

Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT news
USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 00:47:40 (EST)


For those of you who haven't read my previous article, here it is, read and absorb the REAL TRUTH!Why is it after 5 milliom years the Black man and woman are on the bottom of the world. We cant blame the white man because in our own countries we are still largely on the tribal level.We still practice slavery as is known all over the world.Just look at the Sudan,Ghana,Uganda,and Mauritania and see how the Black man is still selling each other along with his women and children. Some of our primitive tribes try to exterminate each other!!! Look at the Hutu and Tutsi tribes. They kill each other's women and children while the White man is the policeman of the world. Whenever something goes wrong in the world it is the White man who is called on to fix the atrosity.Even though two thirds of the poor are either white or latino it is the back man who turns our cities into African jungles. We have been on this Earth 5 million years and it is the White man who is envied for his magical accomplishments. The non-literate brothas and sistas in Africa could never have created the automobile,airplane,computer,electricity,radio,telivision,microscope,telescope or anything remotely close to it.can yo imagine our people putting a man on the moon? We have to watch the White man do it while he generously calls us all equal.The White man has integrated blacks into his schools and ruined education for white children.How can these white children learn with loud,roudy,ebonics speaking,lazy,rap loving niggas who act like savages.Yet the White man still calls us his equall.He gives us affirmative action to get into his universities because we are not asians who are highly motivated and much smarter than brothas and sistas.One in three young black males is in trouble with the law because we are such lawless barbarians.Yet despite this the White man has integrated us into his society which we destroy. Look at South Africa under the Black man.It has the highest murder rate and rape rate in the world. See why the White man had apartheid. He knew that when the Black man came to power we would destroy South Africa and we did.Many Black children dont know who their daddy is but the White man gives the Black women welfare to feed her children that will grow up to drag down America just as bad as their parents.Yet the White man calls us his equall.How could he be so stupid?The Japanese would never call us equall. Some of us claim to have created civilization yet we cant hardly speak English and we destroy every beautiful city we move to. When the White man went to Afica he saw us living in tribes and eating each other.Yet the White man calls us equall.Why?I guess he feels sorry for us.We murder,rob,rape,and assault 1 million 500 thousand whites each year. No matter we have racism! Between our crime,welfare costs,and uncivilized African jungle behvior we should be discriminated against!!!!!!!!! I am not on welfare, I collect SSI. (Just to set the record straight)

Thutmos Turner
Compton, Ca USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 22:16:30 (EST)


Thutmos all your lazy self does is write messages on this site all day. Are you at home on welfare all day? As for whites making up the majority of welfare recipients we dont need it to support fatherless children like your race. You call whites trailor trash but you make them look good considering you can hardly spell and leave messages on this site all day.

Brad
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 21:58:20 (EST)


Thutmos all your lazy self does is write messages on this site all day. Are you at home on welfare all day? As for whites making up the majority of welfare recipients we dont need it to support fatherless children like your race. You call whites trailor trash but you make them look good considering you can hardly spell and leave messages on this site all day.

Brad
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 21:58:19 (EST)


Bravo and well put bro. Danquah and bro. X-Dude.......HOTEP to you my brothers. The sad thing is that these savages actually believe that crap. I only respond in order to point our more less informed brothers on the real statistics which I have stated before: 100% of the mass murders = white males; 100% of the serial killers = white males; 100% of the prosecutions for child molestation = white males; South Central Los Angeles is constantly attack by the white/jewish media but there are more crimes committed in Korea town that in all of so called South Central Los Angeles; 64,000 more crimes were committed by white (non-hispanic) juviniles every year than are committed by all other races combined; Blacks and white commit crimes "EQUALLY" in relation to their percentage of the population.....Black people are simply prosecuted and convicted disproportionalely. Over 90% of the people on "welfare" in the state of California alone are "whites". We are not responsible for them not being Black....it is not our fault! Only a coward would use someones name spread they racist Anti-Black hate. Brothers, I wonder if the moderator should not simply start screaning the anti-Black hate. Let the trailer trash barbarians mask their fear of our self actualization somewhere else. We don't need it. What do you think (Black people only)? THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 21:42:54 (EST)


READ THIS: Se alafia ne? One thing I have seen is the incessant barage of characters on this website posting nothing more than mere opinion...White Supremacist opinions at that. I can tell by the words of such Anti-Black Egyptian proponents that they either exist in a state of ignorance or in a realm of biased denial and conscious neglect. To present credible information to support a theory is one thing, but to engage one's self in a child's play game of immature insults, name-callings and character assasinations is a horse of a different nature. As my beloved brothers Shekem aka Menes and X-Dude have pointed out, when one runs dry on supporting evidence...one seeks to support bullshxt. This is what this guestbook has been cluttered with lately. Some time ago, I, like others here, defended the Black Egyptian stance with supportable evidence from OUTSIDE of Kemet, notably from the rest of African. However, those only bent on bravado and "bashing illerate negroids" have conveniently overlooked such claims and statements like an elephant would the world and reality of bro. ant. Eventhough, I believe outside evidence is valuable to concluding as to what realm and plane Kemet and the Kamau (Egyptians) fall in. Africa provides us with substantial material to connect Kemet with the African world and reality; so much proof does Africa hands that proposing a cultural diffusion theory would seem too elementary and simple to resolve the issue. This bulk of evidence is usually spoken by Euro-centric "scholars" in a casual, roundabout and tongue-in-the-cheek way, I guess either they are aware of the potential of such a linkage and are afraid of recognizing it or they are so biased in thought that Africa seems like the least likely place to look. Yet, the fact remains, as I was talking to an elder of mine, that there is a "new blood" of African researchers, scientists and scholars whom, in the next millenium, will become more aggressive and creative in expressing the true African experience. This vanguard of ancestor-inspired warrior/scholars will redefine our scientific theories and methods, in accordance with the senses of their forebearers, and initiate a renaissance in thought, study and most importantly, RECLAMATION. Aware of these young and brash upstarts, the Western academia is launching a new initiative to nip at the bud the productive flowering which is inevitable. Yes, "Ivy League" and company, knowing their backs are ever more forced against the wall and that they are being put into a unknown defensive posture, figure that a new offensive move is the most feasible tactic, which is what we are witnessing here with this un-educated group of propogandists invading African sanctity. Have you ever wondered why Skip Gates is now all of a sudden motivated to produce a "tourist guide" of Africa, which in content attempts to separate Kemet, Nubia (Kush) and Ethiopia from Africa, while at the same time, tries to demonize and scrutinize those Africans you can not put a "white-face" on? What was Mr. Gates trying to prove, and much subtly, trying to imply? Is this not a Euro-centric ruse of using a Negro to stop the rise of Black Reclamation intellectuals? The new millenium is approaching and interest in African is increasing as the Western world shifts into high gear its Globalization plans. Young Black minds like those who visit this website are dramatically becoming a serious threat to these Western globalized hegemony plans and they MUST not be afforded the luxury to proliferate! This is what the invaders in here are saying. To further the cause of our Liberation, we must stop being "rote" learners and become radical poineers listening to the ancestral drums that beat in our hearts and minds as we search for more innovative ways to our Redemption. It is up to us! We need more effective Black renegade archeologists (who will explore West Africa and other places), tenacious anthropologists ( who research the world's end to tell humanity story in a true light), intuitive historians (who can present the facts in a TIMELINE fashion), brilliant mathematicians (who can redefine the concept of time and document the mathematical genius of Africa), skilled metaphysicians (who are capable of telling African cosmologies and hero-stories) and we need ad infinitum. Understand these needed people can not perform effectively, efficiently and progressively without the Proper Funding for their endeavors, so therefore, we need ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT on a collective level to address the affairs relevant to African survival and resurrection. What do Europeans have to lose in remaining adamant to a subconsciously professed African (Negro) inferiority, that is preached symbolically. You didn't catch it. If these Negroes began to band together and channel their research and resources collective into a coherent fusion, all plans of our imposed hierarchy is null and void. Blacks will began to bring the yoke of Euro-centric orientation such as the Mercator map with its special emphasis of placing Europe in centralized location as the sun is in this helio-centric "SOLAR" system. The Negroes will not call next year the year 2000, in agreement with our Euro-centric structuring of time, but it will be for Diasporan Africans...the next year 441 M.P. (Maafa Period). They overthrow us like the Visigoths did Rome with the rest of the northern "dumb blond" barbarians. Our standards of civilization, our method of name things into existence, our process of paper ordained codes, our priviledge status in this global apartheid caste system, our rape of natural resources to further our aims, our institutionalized concept of progress of Third World countries, our ideas of literacy, our explanation of the world and our very life blood will all be forever a nasty memory. This what Europeans would lose, but it is impossible for Europeans to overstand this fact since the world is nice and "right" as it now is. Odabo! My people be strong and continue to hear the ancestors.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 20:49:28 (EST)


People coming on this board, and taking someone else's name and going on posting white racist crap just shows that deep down, they believe that the Ancient Egyptians/Kemetians were a Black and African people. And they feel powerless to do anything about that. They also come in here with the insults and put downs which shows that they are very concerned about what we think...and they don't like it. If these posters (including some white scholars, some in white society etc..) feel that they can't control our thinking, then the only thing they are left to do is insult us to feel power that they don't have.

X-Dude
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 19:27:00 (EST)


Why is it after 5 milliom years the Black man and woman are on the bottom of the world. We cant blame the white man because in our own countries we are still largely on the tribal level.We still practice slavery as is known all over the world.Just look at the Sudan,Ghana,Uganda,and Mauritania and see how the Black man is still selling each other along with his women and children. Some of our primitive tribes try to exterminate each other!!! Look at the Hutu and Tutsi tribes. They kill each other's women and children while the White man is the policeman of the world. Whenever something goes wrong in the world it is the White man who is called on to fix the atrosity.Even though two thirds of the poor are either white or latino it is the back man who turns our cities into African jungles. We have been on this Earth 5 million years and it is the White man who is envied for his magical accomplishments. The non-literate brothas and sistas in Africa could never have created the automobile,airplane,computer,electricity,radio,telivision,microscope,telescope or anything remotely close to it.can yo imagine our people putting a man on the moon? We have to watch the White man do it while he generously calls us all equal.The White man has integrated blacks into his schools and ruined education for white children.How can these white children learn with loud,roudy,ebonics speaking,lazy,rap loving niggas who act like savages.Yet the White man still calls us his equall.He gives us affirmative action to get into his universities because we are not asians who are highly motivated and much smarter than brothas and sistas.One in three young black males is in trouble with the law because we are such lawless barbarians.Yet despite this the White man has integrated us into his society which we destroy. Look at South Africa under the Black man.It has the highest murder rate and rape rate in the world. See why the White man had apartheid. He knew that when the Black man came to power we would destroy South Africa and we did.Many Black children dont know who their daddy is but the White man gives the Black women welfare to feed her children that will grow up to drag down America just as bad as their parents.Yet the White man calls us his equall.How could he be so stupid?The Japanese would never call us equall. Some of us claim to have created civilization yet we cant hardly speak English and we destroy every beautiful city we move to. When the White man went to Afica he saw us living in tribes and eating each other.Yet the White man calls us equall.Why?I guess he feels sorry for us.We murder,rob,rape,and assault 1 million 500 thousand whites each year. No matter we have racism! Between our crime,welfare costs,and uncivilized African jungle behvior we should be discriminated against!!!!!!!!!

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 17:38:17 (EST)


They just don't get it! The trailer trash just don't get it! We know you are afraid! You are a tiny minority that is in "psychological control" through the use of terror and systems of oppression. This makes you extremely vulnerable! We know you are afraid of the FACT that your system of racism white supremacy is coming to an end. That is why they come here absolutely paranoid about "WHAT WE THINK OF OURSELVES AND OUR OWN ANCESTORS". I do not hate all white people, and anybody that does is making a mistake. I do hate the white system of oppression, exploitation, and all those that support it (Black Uncle Tom SAMBOs and white alike). My comments are directed to them and them alone (regardless of their numbers). The main thing these white supremist "SLIMEING" this site and the Earth don't understand is that WE DON"T CARE WHAT THEY THINK. This site is for us to discuss our people alone. There is nothing these savages can do to effect how we think of ourselves once we have been exposed to the truth. I am a witness to this for I can say the I was an unconscious uncle tom at one time. Now, I will give my life for my Black people. Now, enough with the blonde hair blue eye mummy....we have laughed enough! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 16:01:46 (EST)


Correction in the third sentence: And it is fear of the end of their vicious system of exploitation that keeps them from admitting that the Egyptians were BLACK.

Shekem
Age: 20, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 14:40:02 (EST)


Devil's Advocate: First of all Sherry claimed that the Egyptians were Nordics with Blonde Hair and Blue eyes. Secondly, Arabs are considered "dark whites". And it is fear of the end of their vicious system of exploitation that keeps them from admitting that the Egyptians were white. As long as they can say that the Egyptians were "dark whites" they will always maintain the false idea of racial superiority with which they have fooled so many people. And yes they have fooled many people. The evidence that was presented clearly indicates that the Egyptians were black. Had this not been a racist world, and we were truly interested in classifying the differences in humans, we would have to reach the conclusion that the Egyptians were Black. By white people owns standards they are Black. Why is it that the white "scholars" are now changing the criteria for racial identification when they realize that it could mean that we started civilization. Lastly, ever heard of the saying that says you must love yourself before you can love someone else. Well, we (I know I) don't teach hate, I teach love for self. If this world were not turned into a world filled with racism where a group of people are forcefully subjugated socially and worse psychologically, for the the economic benefit of another, we could just go on and focus on the betterment of human kind. Right now it is one step at a time. Had this not been a racist world everyone would acknowledge their debt to their ancestors and the original people of this earth. This is where we are going. Believe me the process has begun and it won't be long now. All the efforts of the racist are doing nothing but prolonging the inevitable!

Shekem
Age: 20, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 14:36:46 (EST)


Even should white people want to "attack" Africa, there is no need. (See Rwanda) Obviously the messages you were responding to were juvenile, but you revealed your true self in your racist response. To proclaim that "black" people were the organizers of the beginning of civilization based on the "evidence" contained on this page is just as irresponsible as the traditional teachings that you are trying to undermine. No conclusive evidence has been related on this page. Self-promotion is not a virtuous trait. Sure, if someone WANTS to believe in the main assertion of this page, they could be convinced. But what has been presented here are not unbiased historical facts. Instead, it is one-sided propoganda. It is not surprising that contradictory commentors are whisked away to "other" venues. It's called "isolationism". "Let us think what we want to think. If you don't agree, go somewhere else." Question: Why would white people prefer Ancient Egyptians be of Arab decent? THE BIG QUESTION: Do you look forward to the coming-together of all races to pull for the common good of human beings? If yes, then you will welcome opposing views and refrain from making controvertable assertions that black people created civilization, and calling those assertions facts.

Devil's Advocate <dadvocate@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Houston, TX USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 13:20:49 (EST)


To Englishman: Where did you become familiar with a double negative? Could it be with your "ebonics" background?Perhaps it would be in the best interest of you to educate your own people. Here are some examples of improper spellings, incomplete sentences, etc. I will start with TUTMOS TURNER: "blond hari blue eyes" ( that should be blonde hair, improper spelling) , disrespecful (again,Thutmos's spelling error), "monkeys" (Thutmos is implying more than one, so that should be spelled:monkies)"Back to the caves of Caucausus mountains...." (thutmose's error is that , this is not the proper way to begin a sentence) , "This is just incredible!" (Thutmos's error again: where is his noun/subject of his sentence? What is incredible?) , "Splaughtered" (again,Thutmos's spelling error.). Now as for Clegg himself: "And we will certainly not tolerate it here" (Never begin a sentence with "and") , "because they know that to mention africa...." (again, Clegg needs to understand that you cannot begin a sentence with "because" either.). For Brian Clegg: "congradualations" (he needs to check his spelling). As for Laila: "this message is for thutmos ..." (she nees to refresh her knowledge of capital letters when beginning a sentence, and placing capital letters when writing someones name). As for Kwabena Danquah: "nationbuilding" (Nation building is TWO words, not ONE), "socializatioin" (Mr.Danquah needs to check his spelling on this one, it is clearly, incorrect). As for Shekem: "trueth" (he needs to learn to spell correctly as well, for this is also in error). There are numerous spelling errors here, as well as incomplete sentences, run-ons, and of course lies and myths,etc ,etc...I could go on and on. I do find it quite interesting that more than half of you (especially, Thutmos Turner, because he has the MOST errors of all of you) are trying your best to teach Myth as true history..yet, half of you can't even spell, or write a proper sentence. what more could anyone have expected from a bunch of morons. Take care, I hope this lesson is valuable to you all :o)

Helping Illiterate Negroids <Who think they can teach myth as history>
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 13:11:34 (EST)


I hate to inform the night prophet but Black people don't talk like that. It made a fool of itself! Why should I wish I were white? I can't think of a single reason. They hate themselves, so they attempt to project that feeling on everyone else. Why would I want to be genetically recessive? This is typical of the white supremist trailer trash. Here we are on this site learning about ourselves and minding our own business and the trailer trash calcified Pineal Melanin deficient get scared because we realize that we don't need them for anything. We created and they destroyed...the same as they are miserably failing at here. Why else should they care about what we think obout ourselves. They attack Africa because they are in fear! Its pathetic. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 10:34:18 (EST)


God I wish I be White.I'z wish aficans wont still livin in tribes while da white man be able to explore outa space.

Thutmos Turner
Comton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 09:04:56 (EST)


God I wish I be White.I'z wish aficans wont still livin in tribes while da white man be able to explore outa space.

Thutmos Turner
Comton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 09:04:25 (EST)


Hail, Brethtren and Sister of American Negro, I just like to going to tell you about my feeling and our black slaves of culture... I believe that ye are lost tribes of Israelite slaves. I am support the Nation of Islam, Black muslims group only... it was affected on me as healed.. i felt no more being inferior myself becuz of black muslim of signs to white and some black americans now .. that why, I wanted all black return to the black judah unity in the last day.. the world' eyes and white americans's eyes will see the Son of Men being black nation unity of One God as the rise of the Black Messiahs in america.. the Blacks , you know that You are the prophets. Who are the prophet? ye art the true prophets only like Moses the Prince of Egypt. You are the Aneglic Lords and Angelic princes/ princess.... You are the servants[slaves] of the Most High God over all the earth. The reason why, Because Martin Lurten King, He who setted you free from the House of Bondage among white Christians from the Great North Star[America]. the One[Martin L. king} Who did scattered you among white communites of america now it called BABYLON CITY. I believe that M.L.K , He is a False prophet[Dream] rather than Malcolm X thats what I thought.. You know that you and I are still un-american citizens. This America is still exist racists and still critze on black .. and White peoples always won't hiring more black for jobs... Even today, those are Many white Churches who going to blame on black as cursed on black, not blame on white [ such as kkk, rascit hate groups, various white groups ]. They [whites] don't care about white hate groups or never mentioned against white kkk and hate groups by any white churches.. You know and admit that this is actual fact... like in the days of Moses and Jonah saw the enemies of the Black Israelite slaves in America... White chirstians are false promise to you [black peoples] for a peace and saviour... They are white lies.. Hey Don't worry about Egypt, anything .. Don't look on africa ..Africa is really nothing do with black americans. Africa won't help or work with Black america being unity as nation .. there in africa , Arabs are still hatred africans and Africans are still opessed with Arabs as well alike as in america white are still opessed blacks today ...... Hey let forget about them that their problem solves.... let you and I work together black unity as Nation than your brethren against my brethren that which whites and pale arabs set it you and me by divide as in africa though. Ye are my black brethen, our Flesh, our Bones , and our Blood of Black Jesus. where is your Mightly Gracious unto us.... Let you and I need to learn forget and forgiven our brethren the nation in america.. becuz we do still love you all our brothers and sister of ancestoral slaves.. Let you and I work out our solve problem to overcome white americans and even world.... If you don't want to into black unity .. because you are still inferior and Shameful, that is big true! we will escape from this is your wrath come on your slave the brethren and sisters even worse than ever! better now go work together with us as being black nation to saviour all the blacks out of hands of white christians .. in America, such as mexico, latio americans, asian-americans became rebellious against white goverment for their right and they want be freedom from white ruler... they want to get their own culture and teach to their chidlren by their won culture... white chirstian are now their time is end and end and end soon... our Black borthers and sister better think twice about it before eneimes blaphieme God of Blacks and come upon you by suffering, beating as hell until you die by hand of enemies like jesus's last days, Because you are Black period...... His servant the prophet........

the Night Prophet
Jer-usa-lem the Holy City of America, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 04:06:00 (EST)


Brothers and sisters, we have been "SLIMED" again by the presence of paranoid (did I spell that right?) white supremist calcified Pineal Gland Melanin deficient trailer park trash white people. Well put Shekem, these BARBARIC SAVAGE killer things are walking around thinking this is civilization! In actuality, this is just the best the impotent white boy do for now. I believe it is the best they will ever achieve for as presented earlier.....their numbers are going through the toilet. The whites really running things who are polluting and depleting the atmosphere don't care for they are making trillions of the white god (THE DOLLAR) while genetically recessive TRAILER PARK TRASH like Brian, lesson 4 the Balck englishman, a legitimate question, Advocate, Sherry (thing), Iskander, , PRO TRUTH, etc. put on sun block #15 and "BAKE" themselves to death trying to look BLACK. The joke is on the trailer park trash people. The only reason they are here is their pure "FEAR" of our knowing ourselves. Too late trailer park trash! The knowledge of self is all powerful and we have becaome self aware. In the process we look at the Melanin deficient and wonder why they can't feel unless they are killing something. 100% of mass murder, 100% of serial killers, 100% of child molestation convictions; genocide to the Native American Indians = white males; Genocide in South Africa (apartheid); Genocide in Australia = white boys. Bombs and nuclear bombs designed to kill. The Jerry Springer show....and the savages call this civilization. This is a dark pariod the is about to end!!!!!!!! And they call this civilization. I applaud the fear of the trailer trash SAVAGE killer things. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 02:27:22 (EST)


Raping the earth, polluting the air, destroying animal species not because it was needed but because it was wanted. You call that civilized. Isn't circumcision sexual mutalation? Would you call the legal murder of thousands of people on death row every year civilized? How about the fact that you kill thousands through second hand smoke? You think you're more civilized because you don't have to see the people you kill? How about the sanctions on Iraq that kills millions of man, women and children. Death by starvation of millions to appease your unlimited want. Are you great because you stole land and had others build the nation you now benefit from? Are you great because you build weapons of mass destruction? Or maybe because you've caused diseases that are unknown to many.All those who wrote derogatory remarks about the original people, I know you are AFRAID. This is why you are here. This is why you want to put in words to discourage our efforts. Your numbers are dwindling to nothing, you have effectively ensured your death by depleting the ozone. The End of Western Civilization is near and you can see it. Babylon will fall. If you think about it, spiritualy, you are the equivalent of the devil. According to the Bible, who is now in charge of the world? But not for long. The devil has done a lot of things that blind ones see as being great. But you see the TRUTH has returned. You are like a virus that has infected the earth, we are the here with the medication that will purge you from this earth. For almost 200,000 years we had peace. You see, building monuments doesn't define the greatness of humans. Civilization is living harmoniously, working with nature, ensuring balance, being spiritually entuned. As for Advocate, Sherry, Iskander, Brian, PRO TRUTH, and whoever else wrote anything against us, I make you a promise. I guarantee your children will one day regret that their ancestors so evil and they will honor, respect, and love the original people to whom their debt is immeasurable!!! We can put a wager on it that our children's children will have to pay. We both know your downfall is inevitable!!!

Shekem
Age: 20, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 01:07:26 (EST)


MONKEYS BEAT MONGOLOIDS, NEGROIDS, AUSTRALOIDS, CAUCASOIDS TO NEW WORLD ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________(http://www.clark.net/pub/ogas/evolution/FAQ_Primates.html) The radiation of the anthropoids began 35-40 mya when the New World Monkeys (also called the platyrrhines) separated from the others. (Humans came to the New World only about 15,000 years ago.) They are the only non-human primates in the New World and live as far north as Mexico, and as far south as Argentina. No monkey has crossed the Andes, so there are no monkeys on the west coast of South America. But how did the New World monkeys get to the New World? South America has been separated from Africa for more than 65 million years—longer than the 35-40 mya New World monkey divergence date. That means South America has been an island much longer than monkeys have been around—so how did the monkeys get here? The "rafting hypothesis" is the most highly regarded theory about how they got here, and holds that monkeys island-hopped to the New World during the Oligocene, when the ocean was shallow and there were many islands. There are several fossils in South American that are very suggestive of a New World/Old World monkey common ancestor.

oo-oo-ah-ah we were first! <chimchim@sandiegozoo.com>
Age: 5, San Diego, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 20:53:59 (EST)


http://www.nbufront.org/html/MastersMuseums/JHClarke/Contemporaries/CheikhAntaDiop.html

X-Dude
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 20:35:47 (EST)


Let me also say that I am a Retard.

A legitimate question
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 20:07:36 (EST)


We're really good at tearing each other down, aren't we?

anonymous
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 17:50:17 (EST)


It appears that ancient Egyptians, regardless of what anyone thinks they looked like, were clearly superior to the black Africans inhabiting the rest of the continent to the south, who have the most unimpressive record of achievement in all of human existence (despite having a 200,000 year head start).

Legitimate observation
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 17:40:50 (EST)


A participant in this discussion recently quoted someone named ''Diap'' and claimed that racial diversity didn't begin until about 25,000 years ago, and before that, there were only black-skinned Negroes in the world. That means, Negroes had the whole world to themselves for over 200,000 years. Now my question is this: if Negroes have such a special talent for starting civilizations, WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING BETWEEN THE YEARS 250,000 B.C. TO 25,000 B.C??? They went over 200,000 years and what did they leave us? No monuments, no cities, no artifacts except the crudest, utterly primitive stone tools. What is the reason for such a shocking, utterly astonishing lack of achievement, which is unparalleled in human history? The first instinct will be to blame you know who, but how could white people be responsible if none existed? Can't blame slavery, can't blame colonialism..... With only black people in the world, this should have been a veritable utopia. You know, it's funny how the flowering of civilizations around the world coincides with the emergence of other racial types (brown, white, yellow, peoples who actually evolved rather than being caught in an evolutionary time-freeze like the Negroes, who apparently are the same as they always were). And it's funny how the greatest civilizations happened outside the tropical African homeland of the blacks. The funniest thing is this: we're supposed to believe the Negroes went 200,000 years creating nothing, then spawned other races, and then created these other races' civilizations for them, while creating none in their own homeland (tropical Africa)! Can someone explain this please????

A legitimate question
Age: Age, USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 17:23:28 (EST)


Mr.Clegg thanks for your response on the identity of the Ancient Egyptians. At least you tried to be intellectual in your response while many of your "soul brothers" acted like savages from some African tribe.No matter what the race of the Ancient Egyptians whites have been able to walk on the moon, while sadly many Africans are still on the tribal level in 1999.Slavery exists in a few African countries such as Sudan, Mauritania, Ghana, and Uganda.The perverted sexual mutilation of black women still exists as well as primitive African tribes. In Dinesh D'Souza's book The End of Racism Mr.D'Souza is curious about what other people thought about Africans hundreds of years ago. He had heard the afrocentric claims and wanted to see if blacks were truly the ingenious race they claimed to be.He first looked at the writings of Ibn Khaldun who was the most famous Arab historian of all time.After travelling through Africa Ibn Khaldin reached the conclusion that "black Africans were close in character to dumb animals". Other Arab and Chinese writers were equally as harsh in describing the primitive natives as well.Even today the world is shocked by tribal violence in Africa as well as the slavery and sexual mutilation of women.Certainly the Egyptians would admire the acconplishnets of whites such as being able to explore outer space while millions of negroes are on the tribal level waiting for civilization that will never come.In regards to the Egyptians I never said they had blond hair and blue eyes as some of your respondents have claimed.Rather I claimed there was a continuum in color ranging from the light tan complexion of the north to the dark brown seen in the south.I gave an example of Nefertiti as a light tan northerner as can be seen by her bust that was found.We know this is the bust of Nefertiti because in her portraits she is wearing the same didtinctive blue crown that no other queen has been seen wearing. Her husband Akhnaten had very unusual artwork made during his reign with almost character like facial features which were made in portrayals of people.I have seen Nefertiti's portrayal in artwork and she is drawn so silly looking that she does look negroid.In regards to Richard Poe in his book Black Spark White Fire, Poe had a interesting chapter called Wretched Kush where he admits the Egyptians thought their southern neighbors were savages.Poe also admits that most Greeks saw the Egyptians as very different physically from their southern neighbors.In regards to Frank Snowden he has been free to write whatever he feels like at lest for many many years just like Cheikh Anta Diop,John Jackson,George James and others. He did a great job of finding Greek authors who did not descride the Egyptians as having "black skins and wooly hair". These Greek authors such as Arrian,Manilius,and Flavios Philastratus,did not even describe the Egyptians as black but as a brown shade.All people who lived on the Meditteranian had light brown skins whether you look at the Greeks,the people on the island of Crete,the Syro-Palestinians or the Northern Egyptians.You admitted that the northern Egyptians were not negroid which is really my main concern since subsaharan negroes seem to always be described as savage by Europeans,Arabs,Persians,and Chinese as has been well documented.Shomarka Keita the negro bioanthropologst was discussed in Richard Poe's book.Here he claims that the Egyptians had more affinities with the other northeastern Africans than with Asians or Europeans.However, in his 1990 and 1992 studies he claimes the northern Egyptians have skulls that are intermediate between northern Europeans and blacks south of Egypt.He even says some northern Egyptians have skulls closer to Europeans than southern Egyptians.Dr. Keita claims microevlution is responsible for the differences in physical apearance between north and south Egypt.In Richard Poe's book he seems to still believe that the northern Egyptians had black skins despite their radically different skulls which in some instances are closer to Europeans according to his previous work in 1990 and 1992.His work can be found in the 1990 and 1992 American Journal of Anthropology. Now that he admitted the Northern Egyptians did not vaguely resemble negroes and in some instances had more European skulls it is quite obvious why the Egyptians had such a great civilization.Salima Ikram the foremost expert on mummies and Egyptian remains such as skeletons has written that the "northern Egyptians were a light brown in skin complexion".Yes the Pygmies had light brown skins but they are in a whole different region of Africa.The northern Egyptians on the other hand are light brown just like all people living on the Meditteranian.I dont claim the Egyptians look like a north European but many dont resemble you any more than they do me.In regards to Herodotus saying the Egyptians were "black skinned and woolly haired" I looked at his writing myself and he claimed not that the Egyptians were black but that the army of Sesostris was "black skinned and wooly haired".It is well known that the Egyptians used the Kushites for mercenaries.I had some people call me racist names for my discussion on the Egyptians but I surely dont care because I am on top and negroes are on the bottom of the world with no chance of coming up at all.

Bryan
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 14:16:16 (EST)


To Englishman: Where did you become familiar with a double negative? Could it be with your "ebonics" background?Perhaps it would be in the best interest of you to educate your own people. Here are some examples of improper spellings, incomplete sentences, etc. I will start with TUTMOS TURNER: "blond hari blue eyes" ( that should be blonde hair, improper spelling) , disrespecful (again,Thutmos's spelling error), "monkeys" (Thutmos is implying more than one, so that should be spelled:monkies)"Back to the caves of Caucausus mountains...." (thutmose's error is that , this is not the proper way to begin a sentence) , "This is just incredible!" (Thutmos's error again: where is his noun/subject of his sentence? What is incredible?) , "Splaughtered" (again,Thutmos's spelling error.). Now as for Clegg himself: "And we will certainly not tolerate it here" (Never begin a sentence with "and") , "because they know that to mention africa...." (again, Clegg needs to understand that you cannot begin a sentence with "because" either.). For Brian Clegg: "congradualations" (he needs to check his spelling). As for Laila: "this message is for thutmos ..." (she nees to refresh her knowledge of capital letters when beginning a sentence, and placing capital letters when writing someones name). As for Kwabena Danquah: "nationbuilding" (Nation building is TWO words, not ONE), "socializatioin" (Mr.Danquah needs to check his spelling on this one, it is clearly, incorrect). As for Shekem: "trueth" (he needs to learn to spell correctly as well, for this is also in error). There are numerous spelling errors here, as well as incomplete sentences, run-ons, and of course lies and myths,etc ,etc...I could go on and on. I do find it quite interesting that more than half of you (especially, Thutmos Turner, because he has the MOST errors of all of you) are trying your best to teach Myth as true history..yet, half of you can't even spell, or write a proper sentence. what more could anyone have expected from a bunch of morons. Take care, I hope this lesson is valuable to you all :o)

Lesson 4 the black Englishman
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 13:42:50 (EST)


To Sherry: SHAME ON YOU!!! While you are so busy trying to respond to the barrage of Black intellectuals' comments, you have failed in English 101. Your statement "you will never get no where" is grammatically incorrect, in that you use a double negative. I thought you White folk learned that as early as the 11th grade. SHAME ON YOU!!!

The Englishman
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 12:32:28 (EST)


I am such a babbler. I am a racist, and I dont like the accomplishments of white people. I only wish Afrocentrism were true. It is a lie A BIG LIE concocted by my race. We cannot prove anything we post here. When we are confronted with truths we blast white people by calling them racist, barbaric, people, when in all actuality, I sit on my big butt waiting for my food stamps and disability check. I must run, its time to go grocery shopping, the mail just came!

Thutmose Turner
Compton, Ca USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 11:44:58 (EST)


The Sherry thing is BACK! Or should we call it Harman, Advocate, white trash, etc. The Sherry thing (is back from its Neo Nazi sh-t kicking Aryan white supremist hate site). Back with more stories about blonde hair blue eyed mummies. Funny how all these people sound the very same. More white supremist minority strategies of making themselves bigger and more together than they are. Sounds like a "B" horror movie. Blond hari blue eyes .....these mummies must have been neo nazi white supremist mummies! Back to the caves of the Caucausus mountains where you were sexually abusing animals. Neo nazi mummies! I needed a good laugh this morning Sherrie thing.....thank you. You are the joke of the internet! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 10:42:07 (EST)


I dont know whether it is sad or just funny that you believe yourselves. First of all, Bryan Harman, Is right, Diop was not an "egyptologist". Didnt any of you know that? In reference to the mummies , the numerous mummies that have been found in Egypt, many "Egyptians" themselves were present at the archeological digs, as well as "white" people. RamsesII , did have RED hair, and he is on display in the Cairo Museum, King Hor, is also on display (a life size human bust) in the Cairo Museum which the Egyptians clearly depicted his blue eyes ...they made them out of saphfire stones. Within the walls of several different tombs within the pyramids, it WILL TELL YOU...about certain Pharoahs daughters' who had blonde hair and blue eyes. This is INSIDE the walls of the pyramids, something that no "so-called racist egyptologist" can change. Also, theres something that all of you afrocentists must understand , due to the fact that probably more than half of you have never even been to Egypt, let alone probably out of the USA, How can you make such allegations and accusations from your so called :"Diop" who is not even a egyptologist for one, and secondly, MANY EGYPTIAN citizens go along on these excavations (not just white people) and they experience the findings along with "white Egyptologists" first hand...and if you knew anything about TRUE Egypt, you should know that they have much respect for their ancient history, and for the ancient dead, that they would most likely "ban" anyone from studying in Egypt who would distort this information. You are really fools. Also, Egypt does not mean the "land of the blacks" , the Egyptians called "Sudan" the land of the blacks. So stop twisting facts, as well as evidence to fit your idealogy. Another subject I would like to touch upon is Aristotle. Afrocentrists claim he "sacked" the library in Alexandria, and stole history and everything knowledgeable from so called blacks. This is a blantant joke within itself. First of all, Aristotle he died 2 or 3 years before that library was even built! I see what you people are doing here. You are quoting words from other black afrocentrists, including diop, again, who was not even an egyptologist, and your painting this "rosey" picture of how you would like the past to be, and hopefully no one will look all of this information up , or hopefully no one will be aware of the real truth, and not question you...thus..making you think you are proving a point. However, your not. Have you ever been to egypt? Are you an Egyptologist? What is it that you call yourself? There is no conspiracy against black people, like you claim. I have been to Egypt, I have studied in Egypt for years, and I found that when I confront you with FACTS that you cannot answer due to your teachings of "myths" you call the race card...and you tell me to grow up? Please. When any of you start gathering the FACTS and archeological evidence, then you will see. If you keep reading the works of your "role model" diop, you will never get no where. If you really think there is some form of a conspiracy...I encourage any of you to go to Egypt for yourself. They do offer tours , which will be much more educational than any of the so -called "white mans history book". Then the truth will flourish, and you will see what fools you all have really been for falling for such lies. Once you get there, (if you can), like the old saying goes: it is all written on the wall. Then, you can take it or leave it. However, unlike the majority of you, Ive been there, and I know. In The Real Truth , Sherry

sherry
Philadelphia, Pa USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 10:19:53 (EST)


To: white Harmon and white Advocate person: In case you can't read, I would like to inform you that the moderator (brother Clegg) has just given you both another "LEGENDARY" kick in the ass! You have made fools of yourself with your blonde mummy antics. I think this would be an appropriate time and opportunity for the both of you white boys to repent and appologize. You have disgraced yourselves and your white race! PATHETIC!!!!!!! OH by the way Mr. white Harman person, brother Cheikh Anta Diop did not just have some sort of degree in physics as you attempted to distort the truth (typically). Brother Diop was a Physicist, a Linguist, a Carbon Dater, Anthropologist, etc. This man is renouned by Black and white scholars worldwide. You should lick the boots of every Black person you pass for this folly. When you come here, come in honesty not slander. We will meet you on any level you want to play. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 02:12:12 (EST)


TO: Bryan Harmon: This is a brief response to your comments. First in his book "Black Spark: White fire, Fire: Did ancient Black navigators civilize Europe?" White journalist Richard Poe devotes several chapters to the work of bioanthropologist Dr. Shomarka Keita. Dr. Keita's conclusion regarding the ancient Egyptians was that the indigenous Egyptians, who laid the foundation of civilization, were blacks. Poe also does an excellent critique on Frank Snowden and his distorted views. For years Whites refused to publish Snowden's work, so he finally decided to compromise himself. Yes the Egyptians were lighter than the Nubians, just as the Toucouleur are lighter than the Nigerians, but they are both of the same racial stock. Why is it that White people can accept dark Sicilians and Nordics as extremes of the White race, but they can't apply this reasoning to Africans. The bust of Nefertiti has no insignia on it whatsoever. There is no evidence as to whom it belongs. On the other hand, scores of temple carvings of her and her husband in the City of Akhetaton show them both to have been very Negroid. Some carvings even show her wearing her hair in cornrows. As for the physical types of the ancient Egyptians, I recommend that you read an article, "The Biological Relationship of The Ancient Egyptians to Other Populations," by Dr. Keith Crawford of Howard University. It appears in the new Journal of Pan African Studies that can be obtained by calling: (818) 677-3311. After presenting a diversity of data, the author concludes: "Studies of linkage disequilibrium and allelic variation at a mini-satellite locus suggests that Hamitic Africoids are descended from sub-Saharan Africans, the differences in trait probably due to genetic drift and environmental selection. Ancient Egyptian populations with 'non-Negroid" facial features are most similar to these modern Hamitic (Elongated Africoid) populations of Northeast Africa. Preliminary studies with Mitochondrial DNA also suggest affiliations with sub-Sharan Africans for ancient Egyptians and some modern Egyptian groups. Within an evolutionary paradigm, differences between Upper and Lower Egyptians once thought to be racially-influenced differences, can now be alternatively interpreted as clinal variation, an expression of environmental selection. The ancient Egyptians have limb proportions and other features of their stature that are the same as all other African populations but different from Caucasoids in Europe and Asia. These adaptations indicate a long period of evolution in tropical regions. Since Egypt is not in tropical Africa, these observations reinforce sub-Saharan Africa as the region of origin for the ancient Egyptians. Collectively, all of these data strongly support an African bio-historical affiliation for the ancient Egyptians and their closest relationships with other Africoids. The ancient Egyptians were most similar to populations inhabiting Northeast Africa, which included variants with Broad (Negroid), Elongated (Hamitic) and Nilotic facial traits." The following statement that we posted on October 13 provides responses to some of the other issues that you raised. A more scientific response was posted here on October 19, by "Blackfacts." It would also be worth reading: To Carl and Sherry: Most of our Black colleagues refuse to respond to White people who passionately condemn our contention that the ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. They believe that to attempt a debate with Caucasians on this issue is a useless dialogue of the deaf. We, on the other hand, believe that most White people are victims of a vast conspiracy promoted by scholars, scientists and politicians who have developed a "civilization" based on fiction. Part of this fiction is that Whites have been the harbingers of civilization since time immemorial, and that Blacks and other people of color have been their subordinates throughout history. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Hence, when you come to this site with your racist views, we are certain to respond. We believe that the falsification of history by White scientists and scholars has remained unchallenged for far too long. And we certainly will not tolerate it here. So, let's get it on! We'll start with you, CARL: It is absurd for you to claim that "no one denied Egypt is in Africa…just not Black Africa." I challenge you to find 10 books written by White Egyptologists who mention that Egypt is in Africa. They are in such denial that they cannot even tell the truth about geography. Why? Because they know that to mention Africa would suggest Blackness and the real origin of all African people, including the Egyptians. Secondly, you claim that the Egyptians "mixed with blacks" during the late period and that this was responsible for the decline of the country. This, too, is untrue. The Egyptians themselves traced their origin to the BLACK SOUTH- the land of Punt, modern day Somalia, Kenya and Uganda. Even racist white Egyptologists will admit that the early fossils and skulls of the predynastic Egyptians are "Negroid." The Black Egyptians later mixed with Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Roman, etc.-all of whom brought nothing but destruction and desecration of monuments, traditions and human beings. Finally, if Egypt were indeed a white (you say "blonde") civilization, why did White people cross the mountains and hills of Europe, sail across the Mediterranean into Africa and then cross miles of hot desert sands to begin civilization on another continent, yet they left no evidence of their brilliant civilization in Europe! Why? Because this never happened! The truth is that Black people founded Egypt long before Europeans even existed in the world. White journalist Richard Poe has said the following about the earliest White Egyptians: "Why is the racial identity of ancient Egypt such a sensitive issue? Perhaps because it touches on the question of who invented civilization: Whites or Blacks? When the pyramids were built, Europe was still a wilderness, peopled by cannibals and headhunters." We are not "inventing proof," Carl, White scholars and scientists have been doing so for two hundred years, and we, as Black people, are simply not going to tolerate this degradation of our people and our history any more. It must stop, now, as we enter the 21st Century. Now, as for you, Sherry: You stated that you do not understand what White people would gain from claiming the ancient Egyptians were White, if this were not so. Why would they lie about history? White scientists and scholars would lie about history for the perpetuation of the illusion of White supremacy. White supremacy dominates everything in this society (i.e., economics, education, labor, law, politics, religion, etc.) The distortion of history is just one component of this longstanding practice and tradition. The Egyptians had many slaves, some of whom were Black people from the south-the very south to which the Egyptians traced their origin. In centuries passed Europeans enslaved other Europeans, and no one questioned the fact that some White people enslaved other Whites. But, if Egyptians enslaved Nubians they must have been of a different race. This is nonsense. Both the Egyptians and Nubians were African people. As you will see below, in my brief reference to Egyptian mummies, the remains that you make reference to are totally inconclusive. There is no proof of the true identity of the mummies of Ramesis II and Queen Hatshepsut. Furthermore, Queen Hatshepsut was the granddaughter of the unquestionably Black queen Ahmose Nefertari, co-founder of the 18th dynasty. Hatshepsut's entire family was of Nubian origin. Moreover, have you seen the wall paintings of Queen Hatshepsut's expeditions to the African nation of Punt. The king and queen of Punt are clearly Black Africans. The peaceful relationship between the Egyptians and the Puntites resulted from the fact that the Egyptians traced their origin to Punt. We are well aware of the on again/ off again conflict between the Negroid Egyptians and the Black Nubians. Breasted, as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as "Black," when it meant no such thing. So all of that nonsense that you have quoted about "Blacks" not being able to cross into Egypt, etc. is a farce. Nahasi was a geographical name applied to certain peoples, tribes and nations south of Egypt. Remember, the people of Punt (modern day Somalia, Kenya & Uganda) were also south of Egypt and Black, but the Egyptians did not refer to them as Nahasi because they were in a different location (in East Africa and on the horn of Africa). In this vein, Cheikh Anta Diop has written: "Because of this inscription which marked off the border between the Meriotic Sudan and Egypt after the troubles of the Twelfth Dynasty, it is often concluded that this separated two distinct races, that the stela barred 'Blacks' from entering Egypt. Such a conclusion is a grievous error, for the term "Black" was never used by the Egyptians to distinguish the Meriotic Sundanese from themselves. Egyptians and Meroitic Sundanese belonged to the same race. They designated each other by tribal and regional names, never by epithets related to color, as in cases involving contact between a black race and a white race." Diop also adds: "Not one of the many modern texts is authentic that mentions the term 'Black' as if it had ever been used by the Egyptians to distinguish themselves from Negroes. Whenever these texts relate some fact reported by the Egyptians about 'Blacks' it is a distortion. They translate Nahasi by 'Blacks' in order to serve the cause. Strangely enough, the word Kushite becomes incompatible with the idea of 'Blacks' as soon as it refers to the first inhabitants who civilized Arabia before Mohammed; the land of Canaan, prior to the Jews (Phoenicia); Mesopotamia, prior to the Assyrians (Chaldean epoch); Elam; India, before the Aryans. This is one of the many contradictions that betray the specialists' fear of revealing facts they must have detected." Now the word Kemit, WHICH DOES MEAN BLACK, was used by the Egyptians to describe themselves; but the same Egyptologists who mistranslate Nahasi as Black claim that Kemit refers not to the people, but to the soil. We reject this nonsense out of hand. You mentioned Sesostris I and III and claim that they hated "the Blacks." Sherry, not only were these middle Kemit pharaohs of Nubian origin Nubia, but their sculptures depict them as unquestionably Black Africans themselves. Even some of their queens are shown wearing "Afro" hairstyles. What we have here is Black Egyptians at war with Black Nubians. You cannot expect us to believe that these Black Pharaohs referred to the lands south of Egypt as Black lands, when they called their own country, Egypt, "the place of the Black people." Nahasi does not mean Black. In the midst of all your citations, you also mentioned the pharaoh Ahmose, brother of Ahmose-Nefertari (also his queen) as saying "The Black is helpless. Even Harris and Weeks (no friends to Africentrists), who wrote "X-Ray The Pharaohs," admit that this pharaoh and his family were "genetically influenced by people of the south." They go on to say: "Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian…origin for Sequenenre (Ahmose's grandfather) and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is true, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stands in need of considerable re-examination." Now here you have two White Egyptologist acknowledging that Ahmose was Nubian, and yet, you insist that he despised "the Blacks." We reject your reasoning, Sherry, because it is the same preposterous thinking that has led to the illusion of a White (blonde, you claim) Egypt in the middle of Africa. Generally, when the Egyptians painted foreigners, they depicted them true to form; but when they painted themselves, they often depicted themselves as reddish brown-the colors of life, blood and rebirth. This was a conventional color, which they used no matter what the actual color of the individual might have been. When the Egyptians chose to depict the races with which they were familiar, they depicted themselves and the Nubians with BLACK SKIN. They depicted Europeans and Semites as white and tan respectively. If you visit the tomb of Ramesis III (1200 B.C.) you will see this firsthand. Furthermore, the most ancient monument in Egypt, the Sphinx, bears the likeness of a Black African and, during the late period, when Herodetus and other Greeks visited Egypt, they described the people as Black skinned with woolly hair: Hence, from the early date of the Sphinx, through Ramesis III and finally the late period, the Egyptians were clearly "Negroid," in spite of the gradual mixture with foreigners. As for blue-eyed Egyptians, this is clearly a fluke. As a matter of fact, it may even be fake. Not even the staunchest racist would claim that the Egyptians had blue eyes. Next, the "mummy evidence" that you mention has lost all credibility. In a recent article in KMT magazine, it was pointed out that grave robbers stacked scores of mummies on top of one another, and later Egyptologists picked and chose at random which mummies they wanted to represent which pharaohs. Since most of the Egyptologists are blatantly negrophobic, we, as Blacks, certainly do not trust the validity of the mummies they have selected, especially when these mummies do not bear the characteristics of the corresponding sculptures and monuments. All of the monuments of Ramesis II depict him with a very broad nose and thick lips-White people have pointed noses and thin lips. It is interesting that you would focus on King Tutankhamen (18th dynasty) to draw a distinction between the Egyptians and the Nubians. The 17th dynasty was of almost pure Nubian origin and the 18th dynasty was founded by the same family. All 18 of these pharaohs and queens were either Black, Negroid or of Black origin. Don't you understand, Sherry, where there was conflict, these were Black people fighting other Black people, just as is happening in parts of Africa today. King Tut's mother and father were Negroid. If you don't accept this from us, then, let us give you the names of a few White scholars who agree: John Wilkinson, Gerald Massey, Christian Desroches-Noblecourt and Alexander von Wuthenau. As a matter of fact, Von Wuthenau says the following about King Tut, which should clarify our position for you: "The features of this king, whose mother was of pure black stock, are almost as Negroid as the ones of his captured Nubian enemies." One of the founders of modern Egyptology was Champollion the younger. He and his Colleagues knew that the ancient Egyptians were not White people. In a letter to his brother, he described the paintings on the tomb of Sesostris I: This is what he said about the White people, who were designated last in the status of human beings: "Finally, the last one is what we call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard, tall stature and very slender, clad in a hairy ox-skin, a veritable savage tattooed on various parts of his body; he is called Tamhou…finally (and I am ashamed to say so, since our race is the last and the most savage in the series), Europeans who, in those remote epochs, frankly did not cut too fine a figure in the world. In this category we must include all blond and white-skinned people living not only in Europe, but Asia as well, their starting point." Finally, even with all of the White suppression of evidence and lies, most of the mummies on display have Negroid features; DNA tests show a genetic relationship between the Egyptians and Nubians. Scholars like Diop and Greenberg have demonstrated that the tongue of the Pharaohs was related to other African languages. Furthermore, if the Egyptians were white and blonde, why didn't the Greeks and Romans say so. They and the Hebrews described the ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with woolly hair. You and your kinsmen may continue to perpetuate white supremacist nonsense; but we as people of African descent are no longer dependent on you for information, thank God. So we will tell our own story, whether you like it or not!!! Legrand H. Clegg II Editor & Publisher, MA'AT news

Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT news
USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 22:27:34 (EST)


This message is in reference to Mr. Harman's comments. The message is that his comments are so "STUPID" and uninformed that I am going to have to take a deep breath before I respond to them. This is just incredible! What is wrong with this person? Why can't people (even white people) come to this site in some form of honesty without all the white lies and slander. To portray our great scholarly and courageous brother Cheikh Anta Diop (whom I named my second son Cheikh after) in this disrespecful and inaccurate fashion is more than slander. I will take a deep breath and then respond to this "STUFF". THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 22:16:27 (EST)


Uncle! I finally got a chance to check out the site. I love it! I think it's great. Congradualations and keep it going.

Brian Clegg <bdclegg@engr.csulb.edu>
Age: 22, Long Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 18:37:42 (EST)


For starters Cheik Anta Diop was not an egyptologist he had a Phd. in some sort of science, perhaps physics.In 1990 and 1992 Dr. Shomarka Keita a black bioanthropologist conduted reasearh on Egyptian skulls and found the northern Egyptians had skulls intermediate between north Europeans and Egypts southern neighbors. This study was in the American Journal of American Anthropology or Archeology I forget which one. Secondly, It must be remebered the Ancient Egyptians called their southern neighbors "wretched" Kush or "miserable" Kush which shows the Egyptians thought their southern neighbors were savages. Martin Bernal in his book Black Athena described the northern Egyptians as being a lighter Meditteranian type while the southern Egyptians were dark. Greek writers such as Manilius, Flavius Philistratus, and Arrian all commented on how the Egyptians were lighter than their southern neighbors but the afrocentrists ignore this. Frank Snowden a black classicist from Howard University found those examples of Greek authors. Also Dr.Snowden talks about how Greeks called black people Ethiopian which means "burnt faced".Look at the famous bust of Nefertiti this is a perfect example of a northern Egyptian. She has a tan complexion and very non negroid facial features. She was the Queen of Akhnaten.Salima Ikram and Aidan Dodsan who are real Egyptologists and experts on mummies because they have seen thousands while studying in Egypt have said that the northern Egyptians were a light tan complexion with straight hair and non negroid features while the southern Egyptians were a dark brown and negroid looking people. The problem is that to qualify as black in most countries you must be pretty dark and the northern Egyptians dont qualify as even fairly dark. In South Africa,the Latin American countries and Arab countries light brown is not a black person. The same applies in White countries unless you have black ancestry and it is visible.in the melanin test Diop simply says that the Egyptians are darker than northern Europeans but that is not good enough for me or the greatest expert on mummies in the world Salima Ikram who is an Egyptologist in Egypt as mentioned before. She has seen thousands of mummies and could kill Diop in a debate.I met her in Washington D.C. and she is incredibly intelligent.She is not white either and she has a dark compiexion so I doubt she is racist.We need a commission of archeologists and egyptologists from around the world to study the remains of the Egyptians and reach a real conclusion about their race once and for all.The Greeks lived on the Meditteranian and had light brown skin,straight brown hair, and non negroid features and the northern Egyptians had these same features. With Diop's argument I guess they must all be black.All Diop had to do was test southern Egyptians to get Black Egyptians and it appears that some of his testing was done on southern sites and allowed to stand for all of Egypt.I must be cautious of this problem. According to Rosa David a prominent Egyptologist the Egyptians had different blood types and her study did not even talk about race at all.The Egyptians had different comlexions and to claim them as either "black" or "white" reveals much more about the person making the claim than the Egyptians themselves!!!

Bryan Harman
Age: 24, Richmond, VA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 13:42:32 (EST)


For starters Cheik Anta Diop was not an egyptologist he had a Phd. in some sort of science, perhaps physics.In 1990 and 1992 Dr. Shomarka Keita a black bioanthropologist conduted reasearh on Egyptian skulls and found the northern Egyptians had skulls intermediate between north Europeans and Egypts southern neighbors. This study was in the American Journal of American Anthropology or Archeology I forget which one. Secondly, It must be remebered the Ancient Egyptians called their southern neighbors "wretched" Kush or "miserable" Kush which shows the Egyptians thought their southern neighbors were savages. Martin Bernal in his book Black Athena described the northern Egyptians as being a lighter Meditteranian type while the southern Egyptians were dark. Greek writers such as Manilius, Flavius Philistratus, and Arrian all commented on how the Egyptians were lighter than their southern neighbors but the afrocentrists ignore this. Frank Snowden a black classicist from Howard University found those examples of Greek authors. Also Dr.Snowden talks about how Greeks called black people Ethiopian which means "burnt faced".Look at the famous bust of Nefertiti this is a perfect example of a northern Egyptian. She has a tan complexion and very non negroid facial features. She was the Queen of Akhnaten.Salima Ikram and Aidan Dodsan who are real Egyptologists and experts on mummies because they have seen thousands while studying in Egypt have said that the northern Egyptians were a light tan complexion with straight hair and non negroid features while the southern Egyptians were a dark brown and negroid looking people. The problem is that to qualify as black in most countries you must be pretty dark and the northern Egyptians dont qualify as even fairly dark. In South Africa,the Latin American countries and Arab countries light brown is not a black person. The same applies in White countries unless you have black ancestry and it is visible.in the melanin test Diop simply says that the Egyptians are darker than northern Europeans but that is not good enough for me or the greatest expert on mummies in the world Salima Ikram who is an Egyptologist in Egypt as mentioned before. She has seen thousands of mummies and could kill Diop in a debate.I met her in Washington D.C. and she is incredibly intelligent.She is not white either and she has a dark compiexion so I doubt she is racist.We need a commission of archeologists and egyptologists from around the world to study the remains of the Egyptians and reach a real conclusion about their race once and for all.The Greeks lived on the Meditteranian and had light brown skin,straight brown hair, and non negroid features and the northern Egyptians had these same features. With Diop's argument I guess they must all be black.All Diop had to do was test southern Egyptians to get Black Egyptians and it appears that some of his testing was done on southern sites and allowed to stand for all of Egypt.I must be cautious of this problem. According to Rosa David a prominent Egyptologist the Egyptians had different blood types and her study did not even talk about race at all.The Egyptians had different comlexions and to claim them as either "black" or "white" reveals much more about the person making the claim than the Egyptians themselves!!! I dont have e-mail but please respond by writing to Bryan Harman 300 West Franklin St. Apt. 806 West, Richmond, Va 23220. Hope to hear from you.

Bryan Harman
Age: 24, Richmond, VA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 13:25:06 (EST)


this message is for tutmose turner in compton california. You are a true revolutionary. I wanted to e-mail you because I am in the Afrikan Student Union in California and I am finding it very hard to organize my comrades behind a central belief. please e-mail me. Your comrade a student in the art of Afrikan Amerikkkan revolution

laila <hetsepshut@excite.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 00:49:37 (EST)


My dear Mr. Kingpin person, I am sure we all appreciate your most astounding and thought provoking comments but......this site is not for MONKEYS and we are not speaking about MONKEYS. This is not a MONKEY site. Therefore, as profound and awe inspiring as your comments are, I fail to see the relevance. Please, let us converse about our "Black" ancient Egyptian ancestors (no Monkeys please). Thank you. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 21:41:10 (EST)


Se alafia ne? It is good that we have brothers and sisters aware and conscious. The new millenium is approaching and our efforts as African people should be focused on nationbuilding, i.e. securing land, developing strategetic economic and socializatioin progams, projects and policies, incorporating a sense of national identity and evolving political platforms instead of the age old political Democratic/Republican favoritism. We have the potential to re-surrect like phoenix from flames just as sure as our ancestors build the khu-tis (pyramids), Zimbabwe, Ghana, Benin and other grand testiments. We are the original people, those who are destined for a great new within the old cycle of reciprocity. Let's network, Let's connect, Let's build, Let's strive. Black People, Black People, beautiful Black People, let no one define your reality except yourself!!!! This includes your past, present and future. Odabo. Ase Ase Ase-O Ire-O!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 20:03:20 (EST)


Who gives a f***? The New-World monkeys beat humans to the Americas by hundreds of thousands of years. Yes, there were MONKEYS in the New World before Negroids, Caucasoids, Australoids, Mongoloids, or any other human group. So let's give it a rest, huh?

Kingpin
Pittsburgh, PA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 18:48:42 (EST)


Should have expected it. This is in regard to an article from ABC News titled "First Americans from Europe?" located at http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/firstamericans991101.html ---- Only weeks after skull evidence suggests (even proves) that blacks were first in the Americas, the Europeans try to steal the spotlight and say that their ancestors were first because their spear heads are "sooooo similar." I think I am more apt to believe the skull and skeletal evidence, than spearheads. Europeans want to claim everything for themselves. It is soooo annoying.

Me again <me@anytime>
Age: even older, Smalltown, In USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 17:19:46 (EST)


Yes by Brothers, as the calcified Pineal Melanin deficient trailer trash white boy (Advocate person) said, the Native Americans have indeed endured so many trajadies. However, notice the Advocate thing did not address the fact that the white boy perpetrating GENOCIDE on the Native American was and is the only trajedy. Who splaughtered all the Indians? ANSWER: white boys! The only thing this savage Advocate white boy is sorry about is that it can't go out to rape and kill today. Actually, since 100% of the mass murders and serial killers are white males....he just may be out killing as I write this message. SAVAGE BARBARIAN TRAILER TRASH with no upper lip (chicken lips Advocate)!

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 16:39:22 (EST)


To: Bro. James Esther: Brother, "EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY". I'm sure you have heard that saying. The whites have been so-called in charge (to some extent) only a very brief period of time in history. Their oppressive terror has only lasted approximately 400 years. That is all! In the larger scheme of time and space, this is really insignificant, and it would be a grave error (an error the we make frequently) to think this is by any means a permanent condition. We are simply in the midst of a dark period of time and one that we will be able to draw knowledge from to eternity! The whites are only a tine MINORITY (less than 10%) and shrinking fast. Thus the reliance of the white man on so-called technology, brutality, geocide, and lies to stay in so-called control. Power is never relinquished voluntarily! NEVER! No brother, the white boy is not that powerful.....he is however a survivor at all cost. They are simply trying to survive. So then, what does it matter if you lie if it is to survive. The object is to stay in the game to survive at "ALL" cost. When a critical mass of Black people stop the negro mentality of thinking of these genetically recessive people as something special over us, stop trying to pray for the enemy and start to "BATTLE" them, when we start to "WORK TOGETHER AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER.......the worldwide system of racism white supremacy will fall overnight! "Every dog has its day"! Look around at the big picture and you will see the light going out on racism white supremacy. Life is a state of mind......and so is the so-called power of the white man. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 16:24:46 (EST)


Curtis is absolutely correct. Here is more information on it: http://my.cybersoup.com/bheki/anglo.html This is a webpage Mr. Bheki Ngidi of South Africa who is president of the Alexandra, Johannesburg branch of the Universal Negro Improvements Association (Marcus Garvey's organisation) in South Africa. He would like to open communication lines with you since I am busy linking up with Afrocentric people and organisations worldwide.

Mackens P. Audena <http://www.pitt.edu/~mpast7>
USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 11:45:30 (EST)


To "James Esther" You asked a good question. How is it that Europeans and Americans of that descent can still oppress black peoples. The answer is simple actually. Africa and the Carribean are rich in natural resources. Europeans and Americans however, have a strangle hold on extraction, production, manufacturing, export, etc. When black peoples try to cut into the business and manufacture at home what the Europeans usually manufacture using the natural resources of the black peoples (i.e., their land) white businessmen conspire to drive those individuals out of business. They intimidate the locals (for lack of a better word), and put pressure on the governments (by threatening to cut or end trade, investments, etc.). The governments (often corrupted by "western" ideals) would rather appease the European and American officials and businessmen, than do what is right economically and socially for the people. Now I say corruption, but even more so it is intimidation. Many African & Caribbean leaders feel that they must appease the white-owned multi-national corporations, otherwise their economies will be even worse than what it is. So they do not try to compete against them, they do not ask for fair (i.e., American equivalent) wages, they do not ask for any of this. And if they are unable to compete because of unfair trade practices, their economies will collapse. This is a water-downed and over-simplified explanation, but it is the best that I can do in the short time that i have. Travel to Jamaica, and other Caribbean nations. Travel to Africa. See how much of their economy is controlled by foreign whites. That is a primary source of oppression. Please forgive my spelling mistakes, I do not have time to proofread. Curtis

Curtis
Age: 27, BROOKLYN, NY USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 11:24:14 (EST)


To

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, NY USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 11:23:34 (EST)


Advocate: I guess you aren't aware that "Afrikaners" (descendents of Europeans who inhabit South Africa) are and have been teaching the natives that they were in South Africa before the black Afrikans? If you know anything, you know the statement is utterly and completely inaccurate. A blatant LIE. So much for your theory of looking around at popular/dominant beliefs.

Yellek
Atlanta, GA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 08:23:24 (EST)


s h

t
USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 07:16:47 (EST)


"Racial diversity as we think of it today only began approximately 25,000 years ago (Diop, 1991)...in Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas. Before that, all humankind was dark-skinned and Africoid." I, as well as many of the posters here do not hate white people. Yet it seems that many white people are blinded to the fact that they have proclaimed their culture as the universal culture; thereby, subjugating all other cultures. They have defined beauty (Anything closer to white is beauty; this is why all other people want to be anything but Black), and intelligence by their standards. Our children are born into poverty because when European immigrants were conquering the western frontier and mining gold, Africans and American-Africans were being conditioned to believe that they were inferior. And what white people can't see is that this process goes on today and everyday, with our children, in one form or another. One example is the one provided for us by Brother Curtis. Heres more, "Snow White," "Beauty and the Beast" and almost everything on television. Those are reinforced in schools with biased history books and by school teachers who are unconsciously biased and who unconsciously affected the minds of our youth so that they can grow up to fulfil the prophesies of this society. All of the atrocious acts committed by the Europeans for greed and economic reasons. This theft of land and people and exploitation of others to attain goals is viewed as being great by many who would rather be anything but that of the original people. It is not there fault they have been conditioned to believe this way. Well, Black people, we are here to bring out the trueth. History has not ended. Let us continue to spread the word as we are doing. Let us continue to re-Africanize our selves and continue to play our parts in our upliftment. And let us do it without committing the same acts that were committed on us. That way we will show that we, the original people, made in the image of God, truly are great. We were great before European intervention just the way that we are. Greatness is not measured by their standards. Yet, we will prove that the resilient children of Neter can accomplish anything even without "cheating." Europeans will never be able to erase the wrong that they have done, but since we are, we shall be better. We realize the past, let us now look towards the future. We need to begin networking and working together. We need to think about how to aid Africa to become the great and powerful nation it is destined to become. It doesn't surprise me that American-Indians will not claim descent from Africa, many Afro-Caribbeans do the same thing. It is because they only wish to relate to what has been taught to them by the Western world as being superior. Well, you know what sometime in the future, I envision an African world, with the spread of the trueth, (Advocate, I hope this bothers you) where all people give will give respect to mother Africa and the original people. So it is written, so let it be done.

Shekem <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 22:07:41 (EST)


To buttmose burner (sp?): "robbing native american cultures" is just the title of an article. Don't blame me for it, I didn't name it. However it is tragic that after enduring so many tragedies, the descendants of Mesoamerican peoples must now endure the final insult: Afrocentrists trying to steal their history. It's terrible.

Advocate
USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 08:11:37 (EST)


Citrus, please provide your sources regarding your claim about black Sumer and Elam, and how the "original people who excavated the sites" said they were Negroid. I cannot find any verification of this. Sumerian sculpture shows people with long noses and long flowing beards; the claim that these people were Negroid is just ludicrous. Another thing - when I was at the library yesterday I happened to stumble upon several books on Chinese art, and saw no evidence whatsoever that the Shang represented themselves in their art as black people. In fact, I think you are pulling my leg on this one. This has to be some kind of silly joke.

Advocate
USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 08:05:02 (EST)


Why is Africa in the state it's in today? Please forgive me i am new to this site and i was wondering how a civilization as great as Egypt's could have it's ancestors come to such a demise. I am not doubting the truth of the matter that being that the White man is involved but how does he do it to the Black Man in Africa even today? Is the white man that powerful that he can affect the outcome of the entire world? What should we do brotha's and sista's? Do we actually believe that we can defeat the White Man? If so this site is one good way!

James Esther <Je9942aol.com>
Age: 28, escondido, ca. USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 02:31:32 (EST)


And another thing, and this really gets me! The Advocate savage (white boy) has the nerve to mention "anything" to us about Brother Ivan Van Sertima and /or us robbing the Native American's culture! This is really amazing and really shows to full light what barbaric savages (calcified Pineal gland and difficiency of the neuro peptide MELANIN) we are dealing with. Why? Because this animal has the nerve to speak about the Naitve American Indian people and claim we are robbing their culture through the factual explanation that the Olmecs were imdeed Black or of Black ancestry. The savage did not mention the fact that there were conservatively 85 - 90 MILLION Indians in this land "BEFORE" the white boy arrived here and began their never ending blood thursty slaughter!!!!!! Thats 85 - 90,000,000! TODAY, THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 3 MILLION LEFT! NOW MR. WHITE boy TRAILER TRASH ADVOCATE....EVEN IF SOMEHOW WE WERE SO-CALLED ROBBING THE NATIVE AMERICAN OF HIS CULTURE, THAT COMES FAR FAR "LIGHT YEARS" SHORT OF THE WHITE BOYS GENOCIDAL SLAUGHTER OF CLOSE TO 90 MILLION NATIVE AMERICANS. IF THE NATIVE AMERICANS WERE GIVEN A CHOICE OF OUR WRITING BOOKS CLAIMING A PERT OF THEIR CULTURE VS. THE WHITE boys GENOCIDE OF THEIR PEOPLE, i'M SURE THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD US TO WRITE AS MANY BOOKS AS WE WANTED. THIS IS A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF THE PSYCHOTIC "UNFEELING" NATURE OF A SAVAGE BARBARIAN (AUSTRALOPITHICUS MENTALITY) CALCIFIED PINEAL MELANIN DEFICIENT WHITE boy. THIS ANIMAL SHOULD BE WORKING IN REPENTENT FASHION ON HIS KNEES TO REPAIR THE GENOCIDAL CARNAGE HIS RELATIVES HAVE INFLICTED ON THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS. THIS IS INSANITY AND IT MUST BE DEALT WITH! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 01:36:52 (EDT)


ALL HAIL THE GREAT BLACK EGYPTIAN!!!

PHAROAH
USA - Saturday, October 30, 1999 at 20:08:22 (EDT)


Brother Shekem, you have hit it right on the head. May Ialso recommend "MELANIN ON MY MIND" by Charles "Wsir" Johnson. This is a paperback but very insightful. A deficiency of the neuro peptide-Melanin and a calfified Pineal Gland. This is the cause of the killing and slaughter of countless millions/billions through the past 400 years. The production of SAVAGES that do not feel when they kill. The production of the only people on the planet that kill for pure sport.....and/or they just don't understand a thing. The only people on the planet.....SAVAGES. The Black population of Australia have been slaughtered and butchered down to only 1% of the population by the SAVAGE and BARBARIC whites. Yet they comprise over 55% of the prison population! This is the white boys legacy. Almost the complete lack of spirituality in binding all of everything to MONEY. This is not civilization. As Dr. John Henric Clark said "civilization is the act of being civil". Instead, we have the white boy system of oppression with superfluous wealth sistering abject poverty. This is not civilization....this is simply the best the white boy can do until he attempts to catch up to the level of our magnificent ancestors. The savages are simply trying to hang on but they are slipping fast. This is one reason for the paranoia in locking up the Black populations in prison, multiculturalism by psychotic neanderthals like Advocate. I know better than to argue with the insane. There are no fruits to be gained from trying to teach the calcified/Melaninless empty KILLER mind of a barbaric savage (Advocate, Sherry thing, Wagdi, etc)! However, each time you brothers/sisters enteres a response to one of the neo nazi white supremists I learn something new. Thank you brothers/sisters. All this said, time spent on hate is wasted time and all white people do not fall into this category. However, lets face it, when it comes down to the chase.....if whites have to choose them or us, they will choose their own (as they should). WE CAN AFFORD TO DO NO LESS! Let us all (Blacks) work together for the day the Black men/women do indeed rule the world again! Hotep...THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Saturday, October 30, 1999 at 02:15:57 (EDT)


"It would seem that this Eve has even reached the popular press and news media. She lived approximately 150,000 to 200,000 years ago and echoes in ouir blood today. The meaning of this is that the diverse race of colors and variations of today are all unfold from a common human or parent stock, who in all likelihood was a small, dark skinned African...The notion of the DNA "mother of humanity" has gained more and more acceptance in modern scientific and intellectual circles."(((The African Unconsciousness by Edward Bruce Bynum))) So Mr. Advocate maybe it is you and the rest of the white supremist lead individuals who would rather be anything but black who are out of step. Now that Europeans have separated us into different subgroups for their own benefit, they intend to bend and change the rules whenever it best fits them. You claim that Eurasians are all part of the same race, which of course is not Black. Please explain to by what criteria you are classifying these races. Many people who are admittedly of African descent would not be Eurasian; my niece would now be Eurasian. Oh, but no she's not, because if you saw her on the street you wouldn't say she was White or Eurasian you would say she was a light skinned American-African. So please, stop the non-sense if you want to be logical the only the only conclusion that can be reached is that we are all different shades of Black. The less melanin in your body the further you are from the original! You cannot hold the trueth down forever!!!

Shekem
USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 15:39:40 (EDT)


Melanin gives Black people superior physical, mental & spiritual ability. Melanin refines the nervous system in such a way that messages from the brain reach other areas of the body most rapidly in Black people, the Original People. Black infants sit, stand, crawl and walk sooner than whites, and demonstarte more advanced cognitive skills than their white counterparts because of their abundance of Melanin. Carol Barnes writes "...your mental processes (brain power) are controlled by the same chemical that gives Black humans their superior physical (atheltics, rhythmic dancing) abilities. This chemical... is Melanin!" The abundance of Melanin in Black humans produces a superior organism physically, mentally and spiritiually. This why all the founders of the world's great religions are Black. Melanin is the neuro-chemical basis for what is called SOUL in Black people. In the same way Blacks excel in athletics, they can excel in all other areas as well (like they did in the past!) once the road blocks are removed! Is God Black? The Original Man was BLACK, "made in the IMAGE of God" his Parent, according to scared books. Children look like their parents. All the other races are but diluted variations of the Original Black Race.(see pages 7 & 8) Most whites have calcified pineal glands which thwarts Melatonin production, therby limiting their moral capacity. Located in the brain, the tiny pineal & pituitary glands regulate the body's other glands. Esoteric tradion regards the area of these glands as the third eye, seat of the soul, and the mystical Uraeus represented by the cobra on the forehead of Egyptian royalty/crowns. Why did Africans view the European as a child of God, but the Europeans viewed the African as a soulless savage? Because of "melatonin," described as a mentally & morally stimulating humanizing hormone produced by the pineal gland. Scientific research reveals that most whites are unable to produce much melatonin because their pineal glands are often calcified and nonfunctioning. Pineal calcification rates with Africans is 5-15%; Asians - 15-25%; Europeans -60-80%! This is the chemical basis for the cultural diffences between Blacks and whites, causing some Black scholars to raise the question that the European approach, that of the logical, erect, ridgid, anti-feeling posture, reflects a left brain orientation and reflects that they lack the chemical key of melatonin to turn on their unconscious and therefore cannot get into feelings. Carol Barnes writes "Melanin is responsible for the existence of civilization, philosophy, religion, truth, justice, and righteousness. Individuals (whites) containing low levels of Melanain will behave in a barbaric manner." Melanin give humans the ability to FEEL because it is the absorber of all frequencies of energy. Dr. Welsing wrties "Since melanin is a superior absorber of all energy , it is essential to establish this understanding of God and 'all energy.' The fact thaat the albinos (whties) lack melanin may also help to explain ...why, in the view of many non-white peooples, they (whit4es) lack 'spirituality" and the capacity to tune in to, and therby establish harmony and justice..." The scientific evidence of Melanin threatens the ideology of white supremacy. After considering Melain to be a "waste" product of body-metabolism which "served no useful function," Western (white) science has now discovered that Melanin is the chemical key to life and the brain itself! All studies and facts about Melanin suggest that after 400 years of attempting to inferiorize the Black race, "Western science is facing the sobering reality that, by its own self-defined standards, Black people are probably superior to whites in both intellectual potential and muscle coordination." (Sepia magazine interview). The central role Melanin plays in the body has been "suppressed to maintain the mythological inferiority of blacks...and the defensive clinging to whiteness as some token of superiority." (Dr. Richard King) The "superiority complex" of white people is a defense mechanism and a mas for their deepset inferiority complex which they project onto people of color. Psychologists say insistent denial means readlity in the opposite way. If whites really believed that white skin was "superior," why is "tanning"so important in white culture despite its known health risks (thousands die annually from skin cancer). Also, curling or permming lifeless,straight hair, and the lastest; lip injections for a fuller look! And it is the white female who tells you that her ideal mate is "tall, DARK, andhandsome!" "Dark" indeed refers to more Melanin! "Messed-up Melanin" is killing Melanated people! In their ongoing effort to destroy people of color, whites create "designer durgs," structured to chemically bind with and alter the Melanin molecule, causing it to become toxic and even fatal to highly melanated people! Carol Barnes, who documents this subject writes, "MELANIN can become toxic to the Black human because it combines with harmful drugs such as a cocaine, amphtamines, pyscholic, hallucinoge...marijuana...etc." The molecules of these drugs resemble the Melanin molecule! The body is fooled and its balance is thrown off as it relieson its drug-wrecked Melanin in order to function. Even legal drugs such astetracyclines, neurolepts (tranquilizers), have strong affinity for bind to Melanin. Herbicides (paraquats,'agent orange' [dioxin]) bind irreversibly with Melanin & remain in the Black human throughout life causing many disorders. Drug abuse by Blacks is more likely to occur because Melanin causes Blacks to become addicted faster and stay addicted longer from thses drugs which are deliberately placed in Black communites. Drugs are destroying the heart of Native American and Black society, causing many deaths. For more information on the wonders of Melanin: Dr. Richard King's superb African Origin of Biological Psychiatry and Carol Barnes' information rich Melanin: The Chemical Key to Black Greatness (C. Barnes, Box 3009189,Houston Texas, 77230). Also the technical paper Melanin, The Organizing Molecule by Dr. Frank Barr, discoverer of Melanin's organizing ability & other properties (Institute for Study of consciousness (510) 849-4784 /2924 Benvenue Ave., Berkeley CA 94704).

truth teller
USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 15:26:26 (EDT)


Subtil evidences of white supremism in American media from ABCNEWS ----- http://www.abcnews.go.com/ABC2000/abc2000tech/inventions_102699.html ------ This web page talks about the incredibly amazing things modern scientists think that computers will be able to do (and what humans will be able to using these super computers). It talks of engineering humans to eliminate genetic defects, create computers that can think and FEEL, computers that would be smarter than all of the U.S. population combined. But consider this quote "We can be blonder if we want, and seven feet tall, with longer legs, stronger arms, naturally straighter teeth and naturally curly hair We’ll be handsomer, we’ll be healthier, we’ll be just as smart as we can be." Blonde is yoked together with height, athleticism, good looks, health, and intelligence, i.e., everything that is deemed good or socially valuable. Why blonde? Why doesn't it say you can be black-skinned if you want to be, or you can have richer fuller lips? To many this is nit picking, but as a whole it evidences the fact that everything we read, see or hear that comes from mainstream america reenforces the white supremacist viewpoint. I will not stop speaking out against it. Unlike some of the speakers here, I don't wish (or need) to demean people of European descent to establish the fact that all peoples are of worth and value; and that Black peoples have been denied there rightful spot in history.

Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn , NY USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 15:11:54 (EDT)


"Advocate," I'm breaking my own rule (again) of not trying to educate people like you, but here I go. First, I'm not talking about some white people here or there who just write any ole thing about history, anthropology, and archeology. The white people I am referring to (as for Elam and Sumer) were the original people who excavated the sites. The original (European) people who discovered the Grimaldi said they were negroid (or negritos, eseentially the same thing). Everyone seemed to claim the Grimaldi were black until a few years later when the social and historical ramifications of having Europe inhabited originially by blacks was more than what the Eurocentrists could take. As for the Olmecs, so what if hispanics believe we are stealing their culture. Most hispanics consider themselves Caucasians, or at best Indians. Many who clearly have black ancestry either deny ir or downplay it. The issue is this, every attempt to show that blacks were in fact everywhere, and played a dominant role in establishing many of the centers of ancient civilization, is met with resistance by whites who cannot imagine blacks doing anything but boil people and pots and swing from trees. Americans an many Europeans (not all but most) have a Tarzan mentality, i.e., the white man must come to civilize the wretched savages. Give it up. Once again, your own scholars and original excavaters condemn you. The University of Chicago (Oriental Dept.) has concrete proof that the origin of the Egyptian Pharoanic (sp?) system came from (black) Nubia. Nubians were the first to symbolize their kings with the "Upper Egypt" crown, and the "god" Horus. Egyptian civilization came from (African) Nubia, not (white/asian) Eurasia. The Shang Dynasty artwork condems Mr. Wagdi. He would rather address skull size than to address how these people actually represented THEMSELVES in THEIR artwork. It is sad. Mr. Wagdi, an asian of mixed descent, probably considers himself caucasian, how backwards is that? I don't dislike whites (Europeans, Scandinavians, Middle Easterners, or any other group) but what I dislike (in fact hate) is misinformation that is used to deny the prominant role black people have played throughout history. You "Advocate" may not be a white supremist is the "Aryan Nation/KKK" sense (but then again maybe you are, I don't know), but you are a white supremist in the general sense, because almost all Americans are. This nation and it's media and education systems perpetuated the myth that only caucasians (and sometimes Far East Asians) contributed anything of significance to history, the arts, the sciences, discoveries, etc. When you are led by your national institutions to believe that "Europeans" rescued the "poor dumb africans" from lives of savage cannablism and barbarity (a myth still perpetuated today), then you can not help but be a white supremist. Any one who denies the myth is branded a foolish black man who has to "manufacture" hist history and self-esteem. Stop with the lies already. Quit advocating foolishness and advocate historical accuracy. This is all I have to say to you. Will you listen? I wonder.

Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn , NY USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 14:52:43 (EDT)


The Advocate (white person) fails to let one clear fact sink into his Calcified Pineal brain. The fact that "WE DON'T CARE WHAT ANY WHITE PERSON SAID ABOUT ANYTHING"!!!!!!!!! Not speaking for Curtis (whom you so rudely and SAVAGELY) referred to as Citrus, when we refer to white scholars in response to people like you (white neo nazi white supremists), we are simply aware of your limited capacity to function on the higher mental level of our children let alone our scholars. Therefore, we simply refer you to the references of a white persons level and hope you can assimilate just a portion of what our scholars are trying to teach you. It is sad but so true. Again, the fact is that we as self aware and conscious Black people don't care what you think. You white people are still going around teaching that Christopher (white boy) Columbus discovered America. And you have the nerve to slam Dr. Van Sertima with that trash "Robbing Native America's Cultures" book. What is your white supremist Christopher Columbus myth if not robbing everybodies culture? Whay don't you speak out about that? Surely your (white)calcified Pineal and Melanin deficiency does not obstruct clear thinking on this racist white insanity myth! Get a life! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 12:16:53 (EDT)


This is adressed to Curtis, who for some reason called me a "white supremist." Please read my message again and tell me what specifically makes me a "white supremist." Is it because I believe that non-African peoples were able to create their own civilizations without requiring the direct intervention of Black Africans? And another thing, Citrus, pertaining to your apparent belief that "if a white guy admits that Africans did such-and-such, then it must be true." It appears you are guilty of what I call "informational smorgasbordism": you treat the entire range of Western opinion as a big buffet table, keeping the opinions you like and ignoring all the rest. Since there are thousands of different opinions on every subject, the avid searcher - no matter how crazy his/her beliefs are - is bound to find a few eccentric scholars that support his/her belief framework. As in the case of the Olmecs, you find one or two supposedly "honest" white guys out of thousands, who believed the Olmecs were black, and all contrary opinions fail to count against it because they're assumed to be the product of a racist conspiracy. But the theory that all the earliest non-African civilizations were founded by black Africans is not mainstream thought anywhere else on Earth - NOT JUST IN EUROPE, but also in the Far East, India, the Middle East, Latin America, and everywhere else outside the tightly-knit Afrocentric circle. Step back, look around, and ask yourself whether it is Europeans who are out of step with the rest of the world - or yourself. By the way, there is a good, sound thrashing of the thesis that Africans started Olmec civilization; this is by a trio of Mesoamerican scholars (2 of them Hispanic), and I urge you to find the article in any well-stocked university library: ((((((((((((((((((G. Haslip-Viera, B. Ortiz deMontellano, and W. Barbour, "Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the Olmecs", Current Anthropology 38(3): 419-441 (1997))))))))))))))))))

Advocate
USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 11:11:14 (EDT)


For those who believe the Shang Chinese resembled black Africans, let me recommend a couple of books: ***Skull Shapes and the Map: Craniometric Analyses in the Dispersion of Modern Homo.*** by the Harvard anthropologist W. W. Howells, and also ***Who's Who in Skulls. Ethnic Identification of Crania from Measurements.*** by the same author. Howells analyzes the cranial data in many different ways, and the results show, among other things, that the Shang Chinese were clearly Mongoloid variants and were not close to Africans. This supports dental comparisons which classed the Shang as having either the Sinodont or Sundadont dental complex (I forget which one), which is typical of East Asians but is absent in Africa. These studies also put another nail in the coffin of the "Grimaldi Negro" theory - the Grimaldi race was really quite different from Africans.

Maksat Tohme
USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 09:58:37 (EDT)


To Mr. Advocate person: Please don't refer to Black peoples of any distinction wether past or present as a "lost tribe". In a previous attempt to educate you, a brother pointed out that you can't be a lost tribe if you are indigenous. This makes no sense and is simply a "white term" (lost tribe) used to advertise Tarzan movies (a white boy raised by the apes of Africa). Unless you believe a white boy could be raised by apes and become the so-called king of the jungle....stop calling Black inhabitants from anywhere a lost tribe. I have never heard of whites calling white inhabitants of anywhere a "LOST TRIBE". Can't white people belong to a lost tribe if there was any such thing? If a group of white people crashed in the desert and did not know where they were would other whites refer to them as a lost tribe of white people? The answer is no! More racism white supremacy at work! Do you believe in Tarzan Mr./Ms. white Advocate person? I hope this has been an addition to your education. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 29, 1999 at 03:13:17 (EDT)


"Advocate," get your facts right. No one said anything about "lost" black tribes. They were not lost, but they were everywhere. They are the indigenous peoples. They didn't just get lost one day and wonder to the uttermost parts of the earth. They were the original explorers. Besides, much of what has been said comes from white scholars. The recent connection between Africans &/or Australaboriginals and South American Indians, and the recent connection between the Shang(Chinese) and the Olmec, were all reported by ABC News, which is a non black-owned media. So whats the problem? Likewise, the fact that the original inhabitants of Sumer, Elam, Egypt, Nubia, and Europe (yes Europe, see the Grimaldi people), were black is based on assertions made primarily (i.e., originally) by white scholars. It was a white scholar who excavated elam and sumeria and made the claim that they were originally black peoples, and the excavation took place from the mid 1800's to the early 1900's, way before "Afrocentrism" became a popular term. A famous white (Dutch or German) scholar (whose name escapes me at the moment, Von something or another) also made the connection between blacks and Olmecs. Also, ancient Chinese artwork depicts the original chinese as being black-skinned with coarse hair, sorry if reality hurts. Face it, it is your own fellow Europeans (honest ones, that is) that have helped to prove many of these facts. It's time to wake up now and let go of your white supremist viewpoints, the evidence is everywhere so deal with it. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 15:18:05 (EDT)


PRAISE GOD!!! You are needed! Thank you so much for telling the truth. My husband and I loved the tape when black men ruled the world. You are a gift divine. Since, my husband and have taken it upon ourselves, to learn more about our magnificent selves. I can say with certainty, my life has been changed forever. Words will not allow me to express,what I feel and how I feel. Since I've been enlightened. Keep chipping away, at the blantant lies, that have been forced upon us all. Much love and sincere respect. Mr. & Mrs. Terence D. Mallett

Mrs. Tasha M. Mallett <tmallett@rms.moore>
Age: 29, Milwaukee, WI USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 14:14:00 (EDT)


I find it very distressing that people split the continent of Eurasia into many parts (yes Europe and Asia technically form a single continent; Europe and Asia are artificial distinctions). One of the most poignant misconceptions that people have is that there is one Eurasian prototype. But actually there are 6 different types of indigenous Eurasians on the Eurasian continent. Most have light skin and straight hair, but not all. Most have relatively narrow noses and reduced prognathism, but the lack of these characteristics does not mean a people are not Eurasian. These misconceptions are so bred within us, causing many people to fail to admit that the Europeans, Indians, Middle Easterners, and East Asians are all of the same race. They are Eurasian. To say otherwise is an attempt to "divide and conquer" and separate the peoples of the Eurasian continent from their common cultural heritage, just as blacks claimed that the Shang, Sumerian, Greek, Indus Valley, and Olmec civilizations were all built by "lost black tribes."

Advocate
USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 14:02:04 (EDT)


I find it very distressing that people find it hard to believe that the Ancient Egyptians were indigenous, black Afrikans. The Egyptians themselves looked to the south for their roots. Excavations at sights such as Ishango, prove a heritage that began, deep within Africa. One of the most poignant misconceptions that people have is that there is one African prototype. This was given to us by Europeans. There are 6 different types of indigenous Africans on the continent. They do not all have broad noses, and pronounced prothaganism .For example, a small nose that some of the Egyptians had is not from European or the false "Mediterranean" mixture. It is because dry, hot air causes a smaller nose as does cold air. These misconceptions are so bred within us, causing many people to fail to admit that the Ancient Egyptians were black. Europe, and Asia both have records of blacks being there, such as the first Chinese dynasty. No one says that the Chinese are mixed. This is an attempt to discredit blacks from their cultural heritage, just as whites claimed that The Great Zimbabwe was built by a "lost white tribe"

Laila A. <hetsephsut@excite.com>
Age: 24, San Diego, CA USA - Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 01:19:24 (EDT)


What a wonderful posting Mr. (white) AKA! YOU SURE SOUND like a white TO ME! You should be proud to have represented the white people in such a dignified manner. Some would say that you're a credit to your race! YUP...YUP.....Yall sholy doooos sounds white to me. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 21:28:20 (EDT)


To: Exposing Black Liars Worldwide. Why would you insult the Moderator the way you have done here. You could have asked, in a more polite manner, to have pictures posted on this site but, no, you had to ruin it for all of us. You have compromised all of our efforts to have pictures of White Egypt posted on this site by your unwarranted name calling. Are you sure you're White?. You make the rest of us look bad. If you can't debate intelligently in the face of adversity, then leave it to me and Iskandar.

AKA
USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 14:00:32 (EDT)


If a man knows precisely what he can do to you or what epithet he can hurl against you in order to make you lose your temper, your equilibrium, then he can always keep you under subjection. It is a man's reaction to things that determines their ability to exercise power over him. - Dr. Howard Thurman

Rodney Jordan <raj@melanet.com>
Age: 34, Norfolk, VA USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 13:46:11 (EDT)


Trailer trash "SLIME"! We have been "SLIMED" by their mere presence! No.....we don't want pictures of dead trailer trash white people with blonde wigs posted on this site. This site is not for the trailer trash! Thutmos Turner

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 12:27:16 (EDT)


To Mr. Clegg: Why dont you allow PICTURES to be posted here? It would really put an "END" to your black claims of ancient Egypt. It would show EVERYONE what liars you are, and it would show everyone how YOU TWIST the truth. Is this why you dont allow pictures to be posted? I ENCOURAGE YOU TO ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE OF THIS DEBATE BY ALLOWING PICTURES TO BE POSTED, IF NOT, YOU ARE MERE SCUM , FOR NOT ONLY LYING TO YOURSELF AND YOUR PEOPLE, BUT NOT ALLOWING PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWS THAT YOU ARE SCARED, SCARED THAT THIS AFROCENTRIC "BS" WILL BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS...A LYING SELF-ESTEEM BREEDING SCAM. SO, I ENCOURAGE YOU...FIX YOUR SITE SO THAT PHOTOGRAPHS CAN BE SHOWN....IT WILL TRULY PUT AN END TO THIS DEBATE AND YOUR CLAIMS. IT WILL SHOW EVERYONE THAT ANCIENT EGYPT WAS ***WHITE*** AS MUCH AS YOU DONT WANT IT TO BE.*******LET US POST PHOTOGRAPHS*******

Exposing Black Liars worldwide
All of the, USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 06:42:37 (EDT)


In reference to so-called "exposing black liars worldwide"......THE WRITING HAS THE SAME STYLE AS THAT TRAILER TRASH WAGDI PRICK. HOWEVER, WHEN YOU TURN UP THE BOTTLE AND YOU THINK THE LAST BIT OF "SCUM" HAS DRIPPED OUT....A LAST BIG GIANT NASTY "SCUM" WAD SLOWLY OOOOOOZES OUT. THIS PRICK "INBREED" DOESN'T EVEN HAD THE GUT TO NAME ITSELF! THE ONLY THING IT HAS EXPOSED IS ITS ANAL CAVITY. NOTICE THE REFERENCE TO "SELF ESTEEM BREEDING" THE THING MADE. THIS IS WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.....THEY ARE AFRAID OF OUR BUILDING OUR SELF ESTEEM. KNOWLEDGE OF SELF IS TRULY SELF ESTEEM BREEDING AND BUILDING! THANK GOD WE ARE FINDING OURSELVES AND SPREADING THE GOOD WORD! OUR KNOWLEDGE OF SELF IS POWER. THE SAVAGE BARBARIAN CRIMINALS WOULD LOVE TO KEEP US BEING THEIR "NEGROES". INSTEAD.....THE SAVAGES WORST NIGHTMARE HAS ERUPTED......WHTI THE POWER OF SELF KNOWLEDGE WE SEE THE SAVAGE AS HE REALLY IS......"THE SAVAGE IS OUR NEGROES". TO ALL THE SHERRY'S, WAGI PRICKS, AND EXPOSING THE BLACK LIARS WORLDWIDE.....YOU ARE ALL "NEGROES"......"NEGROES"....NEGROES". wHO CARES ABOUT THE DEVILS BLONDE MUMMY PICTURES....IT PROVES NOTHING. IF WE MUMMIFIED YOUR ARYAN NEO NAZI MOTHER, PUT A BLONDE WIG ON THE HAG, TOOK HER PICTURE AND POSTED IT AT THIS SITE IT WOULD PROVE "NOTHING". IMAGINE THE NERVE OF THIS BARBARIAN SAVAGE LAYING DOWN SUCH AN IMMATURE CHALLENGE TO BROTHER CLEGG THE MODERATOR. THIS SAVAGE SHOULD BE LICKING THE BROTHERS BOOTS! BROTHERS...OUR KNOWLEDGE MAKES US SUPERMEN! TO BROTHER "I WONDER"......I LIKE YOUR STYLE! BROTHER (BLACK).....LET US DEFEND EVERY INCH OF GROUND, EVERY THOUGHT, AND EVERY BLACK PERSON TO THE DEATH! HOTEP......THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 01:03:01 (EDT)


I just want to say I love what you brothers and sisters are doing. You're making me real proud. Let the fight continue.

Much Love
Age: 18, USA - Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 00:30:13 (EDT)


You know what, if we could post pictures, I would post a picture of some of my friends and their babies who may be light with straighter hair but are still BLACK. So to the man who is doing nothing but exposing the hipocracy of White people and their attempt to monopolize everything including race when it benefits them, I say to you, Yo' Pictures ain't sayin' nuttin'. That's Ebonics, you uncultured son of a b#@ch.

Yo' Pictures Ain't Sayin' Nuttin'
USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 20:04:10 (EDT)


To "Exposing Black Liars worldwide," you are living proof as to why close relatives should not be allowed to interbreed. This isn't the ozarks, elohim city, or West Virginia; we don't call our fathers "uncle-daddy" and other mothers "aunt ma." Inbred Hillbillies don't fit in here. Take YOUR lies elsewhere, and let us have an educated discussion......Man, I think...I think I'm turning into Thutmose. WHat's happening to me!?!

I wonder <Me@myaddress.com>
Age: Old, USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 16:54:28 (EDT)


To Mr. Clegg: Why dont you allow PICTURES to be posted here? It would really put an "END" to your black claims of ancient Egypt. It would show EVERYONE what liars you are, and it would show everyone how YOU TWIST the truth. Is this why you dont allow pictures to be posted? I ENCOURAGE YOU TO ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE OF THIS DEBATE BY ALLOWING PICTURES TO BE POSTED, IF NOT, YOU ARE MERE SCUM , FOR NOT ONLY LYING TO YOURSELF AND YOUR PEOPLE, BUT NOT ALLOWING PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWS THAT YOU ARE SCARED, SCARED THAT THIS AFROCENTRIC "BS" WILL BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS...A LYING SELF-ESTEEM BREEDING SCAM. SO, I ENCOURAGE YOU...FIX YOUR SITE SO THAT PHOTOGRAPHS CAN BE SHOWN....IT WILL TRULY PUT AN END TO THIS DEBATE AND YOUR CLAIMS. IT WILL SHOW EVERYONE THAT ANCIENT EGYPT WAS ***WHITE*** AS MUCH AS YOU DONT WANT IT TO BE.*******LET US POST PHOTOGRAPHS*******

Exposing Black Liars worldwide
Black Liars world-wide, all USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 14:35:40 (EDT)


Curtis, I visited the site you referenced (http://www.abcnews.go.com/ABC2000/abc2000science/newworld991019.html). EXCELLENT information! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 12:50:31 (EDT)


From ABC News at http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/neanderthal991025.html ......... (Caveat, (1)I am a creationist and disagree with the dates, but I'm providing it for its general historical use anyway; (2) I ask that all of you refrain from using the following information to dehumanize Europeans or any other peoples) A Younger Neanderthal ................ Dating of Bones Changes Picture of Humans in Europe The remains of Neanderthals were found in this cave at Vindija, Croatia in the 1890s. Modern humans are known to have lived about 120 miles away, but questions remain about how and even if the two species of hominids interacted. (Croatian Academy of Sciences) By Kenneth Chang ABCNEWS.com Oct. 25 — New dating of Neanderthal bones indicates that the evolutionary cousins of modern humans survived later in central Europe than had been thought and shared the continent with their successors for several millennia. Anthropologists had thought that Neanderthals had disappeared in an east-to-west pattern across Europe but bones dated to just 28,000 years ago from Vindija, Croatia in central Europe refutes that idea. (ABCNEWS.com) The finding, reported in Tuesday’s issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, overturns the traditional notion that as modern humans spread from Africa and the Middle East into Europe, they drove the supposedly more primitive Neanderthals westward and eventually to extinction. European Neighbors “Into that picture come these Croatian dates which show there were Neanderthals living in the hills of Croatia 3,000 years after there were early modern humans established in Germany, a couple hundred kilometers away,” says Erik Trinkaus, an anthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis and one of the paper’s authors The overlap in time and place provides an opportunity for interbreeding between the two species of hominids and the possibility that Neanderthal genes persist to the present. “Neanderthals may have been driven to extinction in some areas,” Trinkaus says, “or they may have been absorbed into early modern human populations in others,” Neanderthals, primitive hominids with prominent brows, coarse jaws and short legs, are thought to have arisen in Africa more than 250,000 years ago. They are thought to have appeared in Europe about 120,000 years ago and eventually to have been replaced by modern humans. Modern humans arrived in Europe at least 32,000 years ago and possibly as early as 36,000 years ago. Newer Dating A jaw bone, about 3½ inches long, one of the Vindija Neanderthal bones that was dated. (Croatian Academy of Sciences) Trinkaus and his collaborators examined Neanderthal bones originally dug up from a Croatian cave a century ago. Radiocarbon dating on pill-size samples from two skulls put their age at 28,000 years old. The Neanderthal specimens had earlier been dated at 45,000 years using a less accurate method. “It just makes the picture of the relationship between modern humans and Neanderthals far more complicated than it was before,” comments Jan Simek, head of the anthropology department at University of Tennessee, Knoxville. “You’re not talking about one advanced form and an animal. They were all people.” The notion that Neanderthals and humans interbred remains a controversial one, however. “You could argue that they lived apart in the same area and threw rocks at each other instead of genes,” says Clark Howell of the University of California, Berkeley. Europeans a Mixed Breed? Trinkaus and lead author Fred Smith of Northern Illinois University point to 25,000-year-old remains of a human child found in Portugal whose legs, arms, teeth and skull show Neanderthal-like characteristics. “Our interpretation of that … these populations were intermixed and these traits persisted over a number of generations,” Trinkaus says. “It tells us that interbreeding took place.” Smith and Trinkaus say there are body features in bones from 30,000-year-old human specimens that suggest a Neanderthal contribution to the European gene pool. Others such as Howell say the characteristics in the skeletons that Trinkaus and Smith attribute to Neanderthal are within the range of normal variations for humans. Tests on Neanderthal DNA have suggested it is too different to be human, but that assertion is also controversial. There is as yet no definitive evidence of Neanderthals and humans being at exactly the same place at the same time. “We don’t have evidence of them directly meeting or coming into contact with each other in Croatia or southern Germany,” Trinkaus says. “But we know they weren’t all that far apart at the same time.”

Same person <Youknow@bynow>
Age: Getting older, AT USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 11:27:37 (EDT)


Please visit the following site, the impact is major. Archeologists comparing Olmec writings with Shang Dynasty Chinese found amazing similarities. They also address the recent discovery proving that blacks (whether African or Austral-Aboriginal) were first in the Americas. As many notable black scholars have attested to, the Shang dynasty was a black dynasty. In various depictions of Shang rulers, (though the eyes are similar to asians) the skin color and hair type was clearly black (perhaps pointing back to the Khoisan and other variations of our people). The archeologists would use this as proof that asians were early visiters to the Americas, but it reinforces the fact that it was black peoples. If the Shang = the Olmec, and both are black, then you draw the conclusion. http://www.abcnews.go.com/ABC2000/abc2000science/newworld991019.html ....... The article is posted below without the pictures.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 11:17:30 (EDT)


This is the actual ABCNews story on the Shang-Olmec relationship (but the site contains pictures that are very helpful, so link to it from the post above)........... It may be a simple matter of historical chance that this story is not written in Chinese...At least two scholars believe Asians traveled by boat to New World long before Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Yet another anthropologist recently said water travel permitted Australian aborigines to reach South America more than 11,000 years ago.....These controversial theories have academics debating and individuals wondering if the Pacific Ocean was a superhighway, instead of a barrier, to the New World.....By Land or By Sea?......... The traditional theory on early migration to the Americas says much of the northern hemisphere was covered in ice sheets until glaciers began to break up and sea levels fell about 12,000 to 13,000 years ago. At this time, a land bridge was thought to have formed over the Bering Strait between Siberia and Alaska. Asian hunters tracking big game crossed the bridge in search of dinner. Some, according to the theory, liked their new environs so much they decided to stay........ A 1997 study published by the National Academy of Sciences appears to support the fact that the New World’s first migrants came from Asia. Researchers studied Native Americans from the Navajo, Chamorro and Flathead tribes and determined that all three groups possess a unique type of retrovirus gene, JCV, found only in China and Japan........ After the land bridge migration, current dogma teaches that Asia had no further contact with the Americas until the early 1800s, when shipping records prove a handful of immigrants and visitors began to arrive...... Striking Similarities........But Michael Xu, assistant professor of Chinese Studies at Texas Christian University, is among those who theorize that China had further contact with the Americas before the early 19th century. This jade celt is among those excavated at La Venta, Tabasco, Mexico in 1955 and attributed to the Olmec. The striking similarities between the Olmec and Chinese Shang Dynasty symbols suggest that Chinese may have traveled to the Americas by boat well before the early 19th century. (Photo: Krantz & Martinez/Journal of Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences)......While excavating Mesoamerican sites in the American Southwest and Central America, Xu discovered jade, stone and pottery artifacts attributed to the Olmec, believed to be ancestors of the Maya. Artistic motifs on the objects bear an extraordinary resemblance to Chinese bone inscriptions from the Shang dynasty, about 1600 to 1100 B.C. Symbols for agriculture, astronomy, rain, religion, sacrifice, sky, sun, trees and water are nearly identical, according to a report published in the current issue of the Quarterly Journal of Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences........“When I first brought my artifacts from the Americas to China, scholars there thought that I just had more samples of Shang writing,” Xu says. “The similarities are that striking.”........Colonization was not a Chinese priority, according to Xu, which could explain why other aspects of Chinese culture did not spread to the Americas — and why North Americans aren’t speaking Chinese........Pacific Superhighway........Betty Meggers, a research archaeologist at the Smithsonian Institution, thinks Asian contact goes back even further, to 5,000 years ago. She has identified compelling similarities between pottery found at a site called Valdivia in Ecuador to pottery from the Jomon period in Japan.........Both Meggers and Xu say they believe natural Pacific water flows, such as the Kuroshio from Japan and the Black Current from China, transported boats to the New World. Meggers theorizes that Asians have traveled to and from the Americas for thousands of years........While there is no direct evidence for regular trade or foreign settlements, Meggers points to other signs of contact, such as similarities between Mayan and southeast Asian pyramids. It is unclear when, or if, the contact ended, but she says, “Ancient man saw the ocean as a superhighway and not as a barrier.”........Aborigines As Well........A team of Rio anthropologists also believes early water travel to the Americas was possible. As evidence they point to an 11,500-year-old skull, found in Brazil, which they say belonged to a woman of African or Aboriginal descent. Digital computer imaging last month revealed she had round eyes, a large nose and a pronounced chin — features characteristic of ancient Africans and Aborigines.........Ventura Santos, a researcher at Rio’s National Museum and the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, who led the study, suggests the woman had ancestors related to Australian aborigines who boated across the northern Pacific 15,000 years ago.........John Johnson, curator of anthropology at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, is skeptical about the Brazilian skull’s history, and he says he doubts boats at that time could withstand long journeys. But, he says, shorter boat trips along the Pacific coastline seem plausible........Earlier this year, Johnson used radiocarbon dating to determine that the remains of a skeleton, called Arlington Springs Woman, found on Santa Rosa Island, across the Santa Barbara Channel, were 13,000 years old. “The channel was five to six miles wide then, so I doubt she swam across,” Johnson says. “Some sort of water craft must have been used.”........DNA May Offer Key Despite such tantalizing evidence as the Arlington Woman or Xu’s Mesoamerican artifacts, it is difficult to prove anyone traveled by water thousands of years ago. Early boats were probably made from wood, reeds and other plant materials that decay easily........DNA analysis, however, may soon provide the concrete evidence many scholars seek. Johnson hopes to perform DNA research on the Arlington Springs Woman within the next several months, and other related studies are sure to follow. One, or more, of these reports could reveal what traffic was like on “the Pacific Ocean superhighway” thousands of years ago.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 11:16:23 (EDT)


Peace to Mr. Clegg and Staff: I truly am priviledged and honored to have "discovered" your website. Thanks also to "Emerge" magazine for advertising your site,because we know the role of "Black Media" is FIRSTLY to inform our people of both "Our-Story" as well as current events. I overstand that while not one individual scholar,historian,or spiritual/religious teacher may not possess all of the answers,it's vitally important that as a colective we continue to share and grow in,as my Teacher Dr. Malachi Z. York puts it,"right knowledge,right wisdom,and right overstanding" which leads to "sound right reasoning"!! Although this is my first visit to your website,I assure you it won't be my last! Thanks again Mr. Clegg and your staff for your excellent work and may "THE NETERU" continue to shine and rain blessings upon you. Peace In The Lamb...Is Truly Wonderful!! Your Brother In The Name Of "AL-KULUWM(THE ALL)" -Johnnie L. Smith-EL(Yuhanna-EL)10/25/99

Johnnie L. Smith-EL <www.yuhanna@hotmail.com>
Age: 36, Tampa, FL USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 15:28:54 (EDT)


MAAT NEWS (The Africentric Voice of The Internet) "When Black Men Ruled The World" (Videotape and Booklet) ORDER TODAY! 1-800-788-CLEGG For Back Issues of Ma'at and to Receive MA'AT News via E-Mail SPECIAL BULLETIN October 21, 1999 One of the frequent visitors to our guestbook, Curtis (McWildy 3@hotmail.com), recently posted a reference to an article regarding the discovery, in Brazil, of an ancient woman's skull with African features. Although unearthed in 1975 from a 43 foot deep cavern in the Brazilian state of Minas Gerais, it had been packed away in the vast archives of the National Museum of Rio DeJanerio for over twenty years.1 Just over a year ago, scientists named the skull, which they believed to be the earliest known American, "Luiza," after the famed Lucy, one of the most ancient human ancestors discovered in Ethiopia. Luiza is believed to be 11,500 years old, while Lucy is 3.2 million years old. What is startling about this discovery is not so much the fact that an African skull has been unearthed in prehistoric America, but that the normally negrophobic scientific community acknowledges this. Archaeologists Walter Neves, "one of the few specialists in human paleontology in Brazil," concluded that Luiza's eyes, nose and chin structures are similar to those of Australian aborigines and native Africans. From the late 1800's through the middle of the 20th century, Latin American scholars routinely made reference to the presence of Black people in prehistoric and ancient Mexico, Central and South America. However, by the middle of this century White scholars and scientists began to rewrite and monopolize historical works and, in so doing, completely dismissed the idea that Africans or other Black people had reached the Americas before Columbus. In light of the recent discovery of Luiza, we have shall soon republish an early article that we authored which provides theories for the possible origin of Luiza as well as her near and distant relatives. In the meantime, the following are a few quotations taken from books written by Latin American scholars prior to the censoring of these opinions by the White academic thought police: Jose M. Melgar, the first writer to embark on an in-depth study of Black people in early America, began his work while visiting San Andres Tuxtla in the State of Veracruz, Mexico in 1862. Upon learning of the existence of a huge Olmec stone head in this region, Melgar insisted on visiting the hacienda at which the stone carving was located: "We went, and I was struck with surprise; as a work of art it is without exaggeration a magnificent sculpture…, but what astounded me was the Ethiopic type which it represents. I reflected that there had undoubtedly been Blacks in this country and this had been in the first epoch of the world; that head was not only important for Mexican archaeology but also would be for the world in general…….."2 So impressed was Melgar with this Olmec sculptured head that he wrote two articles concerning the early "Ethiopian" migrants whom he insists the sculpture represents. Another Mexican scholar, Nicholas Leon, was of similar opinion: "The oldest inhabitants of Mexico, according to some were Negroes, and according to others, the Otomies. The existence of Negroes and giants is commonly believed by nearly all the races of our soil and in their various languages they had words to designate them. Several archaeological objects found in various localities demonstrate their existence, the most notable of which is the colossal granite head of Hueyapan, Vera Cruz, and an axe of the same located near the city. In Teotihuscan abound little heads of the Ethiopian type and paintings of Negroes. In Michoacan and Oaxaca the same have also been found….. Memories of then in the most ancient traditions convince us to believe that the Negroes were the first inhabitants of Mexico."3 Historian Riva Palacio has provided more detail regarding the ancient presenceof Black people in the New World: "But who is that aboriginal man, inhabitant of the Valley of Mexico since the most ancient epoch? No doubt in answering, it was the Otomi people. "Nevertheless, the existence of the Black man in our territory gives us material to hesitate. Did he precede the Otomi people or was he the first invader? On the continent that was united to our westside the man was Black and after the separation of the continents this Black man also existed in Asia: in India, invaded by other peoples, the remainder of the Black race sought refuge in the mountains in the central region called Vindhya. Even today these Black men exist: the Glondos, the Kolas, the Bhillas, the Meras of Aravali mountain, the Chitasy, the Minas and the Pahorias whose conquest has given rise to the name Pariahs. "With regard to our continent, scarcely traces of the Black man remain. Proof of his existence was in a very distant epoch. Was he the first in the world and was this the racer that spread everywhere by virtue of the union of the continents, or when he arrived in our region, were the Otomies already present? His disappearance suggests to us it being the exiled race therefore the former; but there are indications opposing the indigenous character of the Otomi race and traditional fact that in our view is very important: until recent times the priests pained themselves Black as if it was a remembrance of the introducers of the first cult. "But the peremptory test of the ancient existence of the Black race on our continent are the still-encountered remains of him, and the other primitive story-tellers that speak of him. They are: the Caracoles of Haiti, the Califurnams of the Caribe Islands, the Arquahos of Cutara, the Aroras or Yaruras of Orinoco, the Chaymans of Guyana, the Maujipas, Porcigas and Matayas of Brazil, the Nigritas, Chuanas or Gaunas of the Isthmus of Darien, the Manabis of Popayan, the Guavas and Jaras or Zambos of Honduras, the Esteros of New California, the Black Indians encountered by the Spainards of Louisiana and the Ojos de Luna and albinos, some of which were discovered in Panama and others destroyed by the Iroquois. "All of this demonstrates that in a very ancient epoch or before the existence of the Otomies or better yet invading them, the Black race occupied our territory when the continents were joined. This race brought its religious ideas and its own cult. Later they were dislodged and forced to the coasts by the Otomies or perhaps they were obliged to look for warm places to which they were more appropriately accustomed by their nature, and fled the freezing temperatures and other cataclysms that occurred after this continent was separated".4 J.A. Villacorta, another authority on Mexican history, was so convinced that earliest Mexico was influenced by Africoids that he concluded: "De todos modes la civilization mexicana tuvo su origen in Africa". ["Any way you view it, Mexican civilization had its origins in Africa".]5 Carlos C. Marquez also spoke of the widespread presence of Black people in prehistoric and ancient America: ….."The Negroes figure frequently in the most remote tradition of some American people. Certain tribes of Darien say that when their ancestors arrived for the first time in that region it was inhabited by small black men who soon afterwards retired to the forests while the Payas and Tapalisas of the Cuna-Cunas origin goes back to a man and two women, one Indian and the other Negro, who lived on the banks of the Tatarcuna. "The ancient skeletons which are very different from the Red American races, and have been found in various places from Bolivia to Mexico, doubtlessly belong to this race. "It is likely, then, we repeat, that long ago the youthful America was also a Negro continent……"5 Footnotes 1 "Brazil Unveils 'Luiza' As Earliest known American," http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters 19990922_1496.html. 2 Jose Melgar, "Notable Escultural; Antigua, Antiguedades Mexicanos", Boletin de Geografia y Estadistica, Secunda Epoca, vol 1, pp. 292-297, 1869. Also see Jose Melgar, "Estudio Sobre la Antiguedad y el Origen de la Cabeza Colosal de Tipo Etiopico que Esiste en Hueyapan", Boletin de la Sociedad Mexicana, Secunda Epoca., vol 3, pp 106-109, 1871. 3 Quoted in J.A,. Rogers, Sex & Race, published by the author, New York, 1943, vol 1, p. 270. 4 Riva Palacio, Mexico a' Trave's de los Siglos, Ballesca y Comp., Editores, Mexico, p. 63, 1889. 5 Jose Antonio Villacorta, Argueologia guatemalteca (Guatemala, C.A., Tipografia. nacional, 1930), p. 336. Also see Prehistoria & Historia Antigua de Guatemalteca (Guatemala C.A. Tipografia nacional, 1938), pp 222-239. 6 Carlos C. Marquez, Estudios argueologicas y etnograficos (Mexico: Bogota, D.E. Editorial Kelly, 1956), pp. 179-180. Legrand H. Clegg, Publisher and Editor MAAT Newletter

Legrand H. Clegg II
USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 14:57:48 (EDT)


Ms. Iskander Wagabi.....you are proably no more from Tanta, Egypt than I am (probably from somewhere in Simi Valley). The Aryan part of Simi Valley!!!!!! Anyway, this Wagdi person totally ignores "ALL" evidence that cannot be refuted and she commences headlong with wacked out theories supporting white supremacy (blonde mummies and European origins), etc. Not only that, but she attacks the nicest people on the net.....me (Thutmos Turner). Nevertheless, the Rahotep and Nofret (the Aryan's "WAGDI" dream) statues are once again "FORGERIES"! I know of several people that regularly visit this site who have the vital information that exposes the Rahotep and Nofret cheap racist white supremist attempt to re-write our BLACK hisory. Either I or they will be posting the particulars shortly. Call me anything......but DON"T CALL ME WHITE! Also, don't call my ancestors white (that is the ultimate insult). That is as bad as some people trying to say the face of the Sphinx is that of a white boy (which has been said on this site recently). Thurmos Turner

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Monday, October 25, 1999 at 01:37:31 (EDT)


LOL!!!!

X-Dude
USA - Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 22:37:43 (EDT)


Oh by the way, this information also agrees with the MDS plot, perhaps the MDS plot should be looked at in the reverse situation.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 14:20:58 (EDT)


If Africa is the origin of humanity and her population counts among the oldest of humans, it is virtually impossible to group all "sub-Saharan" African people in one genetic group. Even if we can find more genetic correlation between certain African populations with groups outside of Africa, that doesn't mean those African populations are any less Black African. No, it only implies which group of the African population probably sired the outside group. Here's one example, taken from the research of a few Penn State researchers: "Genetic diversity in Africa is extremely high, even between closely related or located groups and much higher than diversity in other human populations. This diversity suggests a recent African origin for modern humans and a raft of potentially fertile medical research, according to a Penn State evolutionary biologist." Dr. Sarah Tishkoff, postdoctoral research fellow in biology; Andrew Clark, Penn State; Kenneth Kidd, Yale University; Giovanni Destro-Bisol, University "La Sapienza," Rome, and Himla Soodyall and Trefor Jenkins, WITS University, South Africa, looked at three locations on DNA samples from 13 to 18 populations in Africa and 30 to 45 populations in the remainder of the world. "We found an enormous amount of diversity within and between the African populations, and we found much less diversity in non-African populations," Tishkoff told attendees today (Jan. 22) at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Anaheim. "Only a small subset of the diversity in Africa is found in Europe and the Middle East, and an even narrower set is found in American Indians." Tishkoff also suggests that the group [Africans who eventually became Europeans and Asians] that migrated from Africa came from northern East Africa. "The diversity of groups in Ethiopia and Somalia is intermediate between that of the rest of Africa and the rest of the world," says Tishkoff. "Perhaps this group was isolated from the rest of the African continent before they migrated into the Middle East and Europe." "Most African Americans in the U.S. came from West Africa and are undoubtedly as diverse, genetically, as those individuals who remained in Africa," says Tishkoff. This research was partially supported by a National Science Foundation Sloan Postdoctoral Fellowship and the Burroughs Wellcome Fund. Thus, it appears that the reverse can be said about the genetic populations, that it was, in fact, Black Africans who became the "Mediterrarean race". If we believe in the diversity of "sub-Saharan" Africa, there can be no aggregation of these populations, into a tightly fitted mold of uniformity and regularity.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 14:19:12 (EDT)


Note, though, that I believe that on average, the Egyptians were significantly less "Negroid" than the Ethiopic types. The MDS plot on Sarafis' website tends to bear that out.

Maksat Tohme
USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 06:17:14 (EDT)


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ethiopian genetics #3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Two more ways in which Ethiopian genetic code resembles Caucasians are Y chromosome-specific p49a,f/TaqI polymorphism and Mitochondrial DNA RFLPs (see E.S. Poloni, et. al. 1997. "Human Genetic Affinities for Y-Chromosome P49a,f/Taql Haplotypes Show Strong Correspondence with Linguistics" *American Journal of Human Genetics* 61: 1015-1035). If you want to, take a look at the graphs at the following site - (http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v61n5/970152/970152.fg3.html) where the solid triangle represents the Ethiopian Amharic sample.

Maksat Tohme
CA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 06:03:35 (EDT)


Ethiopian genetics #2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- G. Passarino, et. al. 1998. > *Am. J. of Human Genetics* 62:420-434. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Table 6 (p. 426) shows frequencies of the Taql/12f2-8kb allele. Ethiopians have 25.4% which is comparable to the 32% of Southern Italians, 31% of Northern Africans, 33% of Turks whereas it is completely absent in the Mandenka, Wolof, Southern African Bantu, and Khoisan studied. The paper goes into great detail on a number of particular polymorphisms and people should look at these. I¹ll quote part of the concluding discussion. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- p. 431-432 > mtDNAs in the Ethiopian population. On the other hand, considering that the 12f2-8kb allele can account for as much as 44% of the Caucasoid Y chromosomes (the highest observed incidence of this allele), a male genetic admixture of 57.7% between Caucasoids and Africans is obtained in Ethiopia. Interestingly, the average level of admixture estimated from our mtDNA and Y-chromosome data (42.3%) is very similar to estimates based on autosomal studies (40%) (Guglielmino et al 1987; Cavalli-Sforza et al, 1994, p, 174.) However our data suggest that caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- p. 432. Indeed, Ethiopians do not seem to result only from a simple combination of proto-Niger-Congo and Middle Eastern genes. Their African component cannot be completely explained by that of present-day Niger-Congo speakers, and it is quite different from that of the Khoisan. Thus, a portion of the current Ethiopian gene pool may be the product of in situ differentiations from an ancestral gene pool.>>

Maksat Tohme
CA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 06:01:32 (EDT)


Ethiopian genetics #1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to recent DNA research, certain Ethiopian populations would appear to be about 60% sub-Saharan African and 40% Southwest Asian (see L. Cavalli-Sforza HISTORY AND GEOGRAPHY OF HUMAN GENES, p.174). Here's an excerpt: "In summary, the information available on individual groups in Ethiopia and North Africa is fairly limited but sufficient to show that they are all separate from sub-Saharan Africans and that North Africans and (Ethiopian and neighbors) are also clearly separate. Estimation of admixture by standard methods has given values of about 60% African and 40% Caucasoid, using sub-Saharan Africans as African "parents" and Southwest Asians as Caucasoid parents....Using the simple FST approach discussed in chapter 1 for calculating admixtures, average gene frequencies from Nilotic speakers as prototypes of African ancestors, as well as gene frequencies of North Africans averaged for the five groups of table 3.6.1 as Caucasoid ancestors, one obtains 53% of African (and 47% Caucasoid) contribution for Tigre, 57% for Amhara, 56% for Cushitic. It is of interest, however, that there are relic populations in Ethiopia that may show greater similarity to the San or to Southwest Asian populations. One group from the mountain forest in Ethiopia near Bonga (in the Kaffa region) has been examined for markers on a small sample of individuals. Especially interesting were the GM markers that indicated a possible Asian origin (Nijenhuis and Hendrikse 1986). Little is known anthropologically about these populations."

Maksat Tohme
USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 06:00:01 (EDT)


As I have read some of the messages on this group, I noticed that many participants in the discussion have referred to Egyptians as looking "Ethiopian" or "Ethiopic." Indeed, it seems that whenever certain Egyptians have inconveniently straight hair, inconveniently light skin, or inconveniently narrow, high-bridged noses, this is all explained away by a wave of the hand and a mention of the magic word "Ethiopian." It occured to me that if even a statue like the Nefertiti bust that looks about 98% caucasian is referred to as looking "Ethiopian" by our friend Curtis, then the possibility arises that there is some genetic connection between Ethiopians and Europeans/West Asians. So I decided to do look into the matter...

Maksat Tohme
CA USA - Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 05:58:48 (EDT)


Iskander, if you were to continue reading you would see that Blackfacts also said that Kemet was "predominately Black." You would also see that he says "And in many[pictures] the Nubians are portrayed with black skin and very kinky hair. The Egyptians are portrayed with reddish brown skin and VARIOUS hair types--straight and kinky. But, having red-brown skin DOES NOT make the Egyptians non-black or non-African! All Africans DO NOT have jet black skin. In fact, the portrayal of Nubians in this manner is common during a certain New Kingdom period." So your claim that being able to post pictures is invalid. You keep making reference to genetics. In fact, go to this site: http://sgwww.epfl.ch/berger/First/english/start_egypt.html and you will see a picture of Shekem Tutankhamen and tell me if he Black or White. Mr. Wagdi, did you read the post by Blackfacts on Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:12:23 (EDT). It is obvious that you didn't. You should refrain from posting until you have completely read it because you are going to have us going around in circles. Mr. Wagdi, are you making reference to dental evidence? Did you go to the webpage that Blackfacts referred you to? Let me give it to you again: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9845/mummies.htm and go to the links if you are truly someone who is interested in the trueth and not someone who wants to perpetuate the idea of the superior white race. Here is a quote from there: "The cranial shape displayed by the New Kingdom royal mummies is most commonly found among inhabitants of the Nile and the south Sahara. The skull of Thutmose IV shows some peculiarities regarding the sagittal contour and occiput in the lateral view (profile)." Here is another one about your proposed dental evidence(SN mandibular plane:"In the study of Alexander and Hitchcock of Alabama populations, the AA norm for SN-Mand. was 34.4 compared to 32.0 for Caucasians. The average for the Pharaohs is 34.23. If one includes the New Kingdom Queens the mean is 35.83! (Alexander TL, Hitchcock HP. Cephalometric standards for American Negro children. Am J Orthod 1978;74:298-304)" You say that the people are more closely related to West Asia or Southern Europe. Well of course they do, didn't you know that Arabs and Berbers came to reside in Egypt. Am I correct in saying that you are assuming that the Kamau were white? Please go back and read Mr. Wagdi, because "There is a hell of alot of evidence against you and anyone who looks into the subect more deeply(look beyond" Brace et al) "would have to come to the same conclusion." Or perhaps you think they are dark whites, Mediterraneans, or Hamites? "In reality the "true African" does not exist as the continent holds a variety of different Black Africoid types who have existed this way without foreign admixture. There are Black Africans with somewhat straight hair, thin lips and elongated noses (a product of dry heat as well as extreme cold). If globally applied many of African descent throughout the Diaspora can be labeled Dark Whites or Eurafricans." And Furthermore, "Black Africans were well known in the Nile Valley region in early times. Evidence has shown in fact that North Africa was inhabited by Black African types prior to other types (Caucasian Berber and Semitic). What is more, as Gloria Emeagwali states, The Northern regions of Cote d'Ivoire, Ghana, Nigeria, Niger, Chad, and Cameroon as well as Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso and so on fall within the Saharan/Sahelian zone, which is the same latitude with the Nile civilizations of Antiquity. No impassable barrier stood or stands between East and West. Thus it stands to reason that no barrier stood between North and South. Cultural similarities have been found between Egypt and regions as far away as the Great Lakes region. The ancient Egyptians state continually that they originated in the south. According to historian John G. Jackson, The Edfu Text is an important source document on the early history of the Nile Valley. This famous inscription, found in the Temple of Horus at Edfu, gives an account of the origin of Egyptian civilization. According to this record, civilization was brought from the south by a band of invaders under the leadership of King Horus." http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/egyptians.html So Iskander, you are wrong and has some intelligence would agree.

Mackens Audena
USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 17:11:48 (EDT)


First of all I never said the ancient Egyptions were a Nordic people nor did I ever say there were no "black" people in Egypt, all I said was that in genetic terms MOST ancient Egyptians and Modern Egyptians are more closly related to the peoples of west Asia and southern Europe.And just for the record I am neither Aryan,Arab or Muslem, I am a Coptic Christian. Sceondly to Mr Clegg it is a fact (and Blackfacts also agrees with me on this) that Kemit refered to the fertile soil of the and I have explained that before so I will not go into it again.Thirdly alot of facts from tests(hair,teeth,genetic and bone) are brushed side by Afrocentrics because they are parnoid about a great conspiracy against them(ie. some of Mr Cleggs below comments).I brought up Prince Rahotep and Princess Nofret (And yes mr Turner thhey are very real,Nofret was Khufu's duaghter) because I wanted to denmonstrat that there were and are faired skinned blue eyed people in Egypt and Nofret is good example.Curtis linked me to an interesting page which had pictures of Kings such as Zoser on it.The satues face is much to damaged to say what race he was.Also on that page there is plenty of images of caucasiod Egyptians. Alot of Afrocentric facts are very dogey as I proved before of the supposed pictures of the Egyptian and Nubian looking the same in the Tome of Ramesses the third.There is a hell of alot of evidence against you and anyone who looks into the subect more deeply(look beyond Diop annd Bernal)would have to come to the same conclusion.As I said before there is more to come when I find time. P.S.Mr Clegg ask you to allow pictures to be posted here as I think it would greatly enhance the debate. P.P.S. Mr Turner all I can say to you about your mad rantings and ravings abuot savages etc. is it takes one to know one!

Iskander Wagdi
Tanta, Egypt - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 14:54:13 (EDT)


Rahotep & Nofret, (the Aryans dream) is indeed a forgery. I have seen detailed presentations on it with my own eyes. Why did they pick these two characters anyway? The fact is that "THEY WERE NOT ROYALTY AT ALL". The savage trailer trash just pulled them our of thin air for parading all over the world. They were not royaly or sat on any ancient throne. Down with the barbarian savages! THUTMOS URNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 03:11:54 (EDT)


TRUTH never rejects questions or challenges because it is ETERNAL. This statement should be focused on in the context of what has been happening at this website over the past ten days. In spite of the fact that this is an Africentric website, we are so confident of the truth of our stance that we have welcomed the opinions of outsiders. They often insult us, call us racists, ignore our evidence and opinions and then insist that they are right. Yet, we continue to permit them to express themselves while we respond with our viewpoints. Some of us have angrily insulted them in return. This is understandable; however, most of us have patiently read their rantings and ramblings and then, again patiently, responded with counter-evidence. WHAT BLACK PEOPLE MUST UNDERSTAND IS THIS: For nearly three hundred years now, White scientists and scholars have monopolized the writing and teaching of history without challenge. Their overriding theme has been the superiority of Europeans over all others and European preeminence on the world stage from time immemorial. This distorted view of the world has held sway for the following reasons: (1) It has been taught on virtually all university and college campuses; (2) Most major publishing houses have only printed books promoting White supremacy; (3) Magazines, journals newspapers, television and radio have perpetuated the same lies and misrepresentations; (4) Dissenting opinions have been completely rejected to the point where even letters to newspaper and magazines have been excised or censored. Now, fast forward to today: (1) Over the past ten years, every major newspaper and magazine in this country has attacked Africentrism without providing its proponents an opportunity to present their points of view (This is virtually unprecedented in America media forums); (2) White historical websites predominate over the internet and, in virtually all cases, if one introduces a Black perspective on history, he is sure to be barred, purged or dismissed; (3) In spite of the global domination of Eurocentrism in education, the general media and now the Internet, many White people (and Arabs who are attempting to defend their interloper status in Africa) cannot tolerate the fact that we, as people of Africa descent, are determined to tell our story from our perspective. Just think of this: White people control world thought on most issues, but, in spite of this, they cannot bear to believe that we are willing to think for ourselves. If you review the comments that have been entered in this guestbook over the past ten days, you might reasonably conclude that "Well, clearly there are two points of view here, two schools of thought. Reasonable people may differ in their viewpoints." But, no, White scholars and scientists must have it all and control it all! From their perspective, there is no room for dissent. Why else would they spend so much time venting in our venues, when, because of their blatant insecurities, they will not even allow Black dissent to be expressed in any of their national or international media forums? White authorities have maintained for three centuries that Black people are "small brained, genetically inferior sub-humans with no history." Now incensed over our independence of thought, they exclaim on these pages: "How dare you fight back!" Well, Sherry, Iskandar, et al, the days of White supremacy and monopoly are over!!! We have presented sufficient facts to support our views, whether you agree or not. White people represent less than 10% of the world's population and Arabs represent far less than that! There is no reason why your tiny minority opinion, no matter how well funded or widely disseminated, should monopolize the global mind or stifle further inquiry. The only real threat to the revelation of the true history of the human race is Eurocentrism/White supremacy. Why haven't you fought this bane of the human race? The reason is because your role is to perpetuate it, and that is why our site and countless others will continue to grow-until the last vestige of racist nonsense is uprooted from the earth. In the meantime, we shall return from time to time to offer responses to these irrational racists. In the present posting we present an excerpt from an article entitled, "Kemet: The Place of The Blacks As symbolized In the Medu Netcher (Hieroglyphs) and Related Issues," that appeared in our MA'AT newsletter in January, 1998. We shall follow this up with postings on the sculptures of Rahotep and his wife, mentioned by Iskander, and the painting from the tomb of Ramesis III, also mentioned by Iskander. Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois, one of the greatest scholars of the 20th century, wrote the following in his book, The World and Africa: "We may give up entirely, if we wish, the whole attempt to delimit races, but we cannot, if we are sane, divide the world into whites, yellows, and blacks, and then call blacks white." White scientists and scholars have had a heyday defining and redefining races according to their own racist predilections, without regard for logic or any other defensible paradigms. Hence, their disciples congregate in this space and offer to us nonsense about blonde mummies and blue eyed Egyptians and scoff at us when we question their sanity. If White science is unscientific, why should we expect its followers to be less so? In any case, as we enter the 21st century, we as people of African descent must return integrity to the study of history. It is our responsibility, as direct descendants of the parents of the human family, to rise above the shortcomings of the White monopolists and, drawing upon all of the resources at our disposal, i.e., astronomy, architecture, art, language, sacred writings, anatomy, archaeology, genetics, etc., present a fair and objective picture of the history of the human race. Since we know that Black people have played a significant part in that history, this site is devoted to telling the story of African people and their descendants. The following, then, is an excerpt from an article that presents the Africentric definition of Kemet. We certainly hope that the brilliant scholar, who identifies himself as Blackfacts, will provide input regarding this, since he has expressed concerns about the definition of this word. "Kemet is what the ancient people of the Nile Valley called what is erroneously known as 'Ancient Egypt.' According to European egyptologists Egypt is a Greek word, a corruption of the city name 'He ka Ptah' (city of Ptah). The word Egypt was not used until 300 b.c.e., after the conquest of Kemet by Alexander, son of Phillip of Macedonia. In books by European egyptologists, Kemet is translated as "the black land," in an attempt to state that the people named their country after the soil that resulted from the annual inundation of the Nile River. This is not the translation that the texts themselves show us. Before looking at the correct meaning of the word Kemet, a brief description of the way Medu Netcher operates will be provided. Medu Netcher is a highly complex language that exists on many levels. It is pictorial (ideograms), symbolic (determinatives), and phonetic (phonograms) at the same time. Any symbol could be pictorial (used to represent itself). Determinatives are generally used at the end of words to help clarify meaning. There are three types of phonograms: 1. monoliterals (one sign, one sound), 2. biliterals (one sign, two sounds), and 3. triliterals (one sign, three sounds). Monoliterals are also used as phonetic complements. A phonetic complement is used as a reading aid; it may be placed before or after a bi- or triliteral as a visual reminder or reinforcement of the pronunciation of the word shown. This is the word Kemet [Image]. The first symbol, a piece of charred wood (some say a crocodile's spine), is the biliteral "km." The owl symbolizes the monoliteral "m," used in this instance as a phonetic complement. The third symbol is a loaf of bread, the monoliteral "t." The last symbol, a determinative, is very important for our discussion of this word. This symbol depicts an aerial view of a circular walled settlement displaying a network of roads. Here the symbol is drawn in abstract which has been reduced to the two principal axes [Image]. These types of cities have been unearthed in excavations in Upper Kemet dating from the oldest epochs of urbanization. Also this symbol has been documented on predynastic palettes. This symbol is very easily distinguished from the symbol for land, [Image]ta, which represents the flat plain of the valley that is often painted black to represent the fertile soil. It invokes the idea of Ancient Kemet, the black flood plain, the gift of the Nile; which is quite different from the concept of Kemet as the civilized Country of the Blacks, which is the literal translation of the word [Image]Kemet in Medu Netcher. One concept represents the land given to the Ancient Africans by God, and the other represents the country as a civilized unit developed by the Africans themselves. As shown in Alan Gardiners' Egyptian Grammar book, [Image]is a naturally occurring symbol, and is a [Image]man-made symbol. Therefore it is not possible to correctly state that they mean the same thing; undeveloped land is different than developed land. When the people wanted to describe themselves, they used the same symbols, Kmt, but they changed the determinative to a seated man and woman, placed in front of the plural sign (three vertical strokes), indicating a collective nominative, referring to "human beings," "people," "ethnic groups," which taken in total can only be translated as [Image]"Black People." Most Europeans translate this word as "Egyptians." It is obvious that anyone who has studied the language of Kemet and continues to translate these words as "Egypt" or "Egyptian," is purposely attempting to mislead and misinform. The proper translation of classical African languages is part of the work that must be done in order to "construct a body of modern human sciences, in order to renovate African culture."(7) Footnotes 1. Sir Alan Gardiner, Egypt of the Pharaohs, Oxford University Press, 1961, pg. 19. 2. Adolf Erman, Life in Ancient Egypt, Dover Publications, Inc., 1971, pg. 29. 3. Ibid. pg. 30. 4. Theophile Obenga, "Genetic Linguistic Connections of Ancient Egypt and the Rest of Africa," in African Intellectual Heritage: A Book of Sources, ed. by Molefi Kete Asante and Abu S. Abarry, Temple University Press, 1996, pg. 266. See also Theophile Obenga, Ancient Egypt and Black Africa: A Student's Handbook for the Study of Ancient Egypt in Philosophy, Linguistics, and Gender Relations, Kamak House, 1992. 5. Ibid. pg. 281. 6. Ibid. pg. 271. The spiritual system of Kemet laid the foundation for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. See also Who Is This King of Glory?, by Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Kessinger Publishing Co., Christianity Before Christ, John G. Jackson, and The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read, ed. by Tim Leedom. 7. Cheikh Anta Diop, Civilization or Barbarism: An Authentic Anthropology, Lawrence Hill Books, 1991, pg. 3. copyright 1998 CHEIKH ANTA DIOP INSTITUTE OF EGYPTOLOGY AND AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS To learn more about Medu Netcher, The Cheikh Anta Diop Institute of Egyptology and African Civilization is proud to offer the book, Let the Ancestors Speak: Removing the Veil of Mysticism from Medu Netcher, by Ankh Mi Ra. The price of the book is $19.95, and ordering instructions may be obtained by e-mail from netcher@juno.com. A correspondence course is also available. Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT news, The Clegg Series.

Legrand H. Clegg II
USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 00:30:43 (EDT)


TRUTH never rejects questions or challenges because it is ETERNAL. This statement should be focused on in the context of what has been happening at this website over the past ten days. In spite of the fact that this is an Africentric website, we are so confident of the truth of our stance that we have welcomed the opinions of outsiders. They often insult us, call us racists, ignore our evidence and opinions and then insist that they are right. Yet, we continue to permit them to express themselves while we respond with our viewpoints. Some of us have angrily insulted them in return. This is understandable; however, most of us have patiently read their rantings and ramblings and then, again patiently, responded with counter-evidence. WHAT BLACK PEOPLE MUST UNDERSTAND IS THIS: For nearly three hundred years now, White scientists and scholars have monopolized the writing and teaching of history without challenge. Their overriding theme has been the superiority of Europeans over all others and European preeminence on the world stage from time immemorial. This distorted view of the world has held sway for the following reasons: (1) It has been taught on virtually all university and college campuses; (2) Most major publishing houses have only printed books promoting White supremacy; (3) Magazines, journals newspapers, television and radio have perpetuated the same lies and misrepresentations; (4) Dissenting opinions have been completely rejected to the point where even letters to newspaper and magazines have been excised or censored. Now, fast forward to today: (1) Over the past ten years, every major newspaper and magazine in this country has attacked Africentrism without providing its proponents an opportunity to present their points of view (This is virtually unprecedented in America media forums); (2) White historical websites predominate over the internet and, in virtually all cases, if one introduces a Black perspective on history, he is sure to be barred, purged or dismissed; (3) In spite of the global domination of Eurocentrism in education, the general media and now the Internet, many White people (and Arabs who are attempting to defend their interloper status in Africa) cannot tolerate the fact that we, as people of Africa descent, are determined to tell our story from our perspective. Just think of this: White people control world thought on most issues, but, in spite of this, they cannot bear to believe that we are willing to think for ourselves. If you review the comments that have been entered in this guestbook over the past ten days, you might reasonably conclude that "Well, clearly there are two points of view here, two schools of thought. Reasonable people may differ in their viewpoints." But, no, White scholars and scientists must have it all and control it all! From their perspective, there is no room for dissent. Why else would they spend so much time venting in our venues, when, because of their blatant insecurities, they will not even allow Black dissent to be expressed in any of their national or international media forums? White authorities have maintained for three centuries that Black people are "small brained, genetically inferior sub-humans with no history." Now incensed over our independence of thought, they exclaim on these pages: "How dare you fight back!" Well, Sherry, Iskandar, et al, the days of White supremacy and monopoly are over!!! We have presented sufficient facts to support our views, whether you agree or not. White people represent less than 10% of the world's population and Arabs represent far less than that! There is no reason why your tiny minority opinion, no matter how well funded or widely disseminated, should monopolize the global mind or stifle further inquiry. The only real threat to the revelation of the true history of the human race is Eurocentrism/White supremacy. Why haven't you fought this bane of the human race? The reason is because your role is to perpetuate it, and that is why our site and countless others will continue to grow-until the last vestige of racist nonsense is uprooted from the earth. In the meantime, we shall return from time to time to offer responses to these irrational racists. In the present posting we present an excerpt from an article entitled, "Kemet: The Place of The Blacks As symbolized In the Medu Netcher (Hieroglyphs) and Related Issues," that appeared in our MA'AT newsletter in January, 1998. We shall follow this up with postings on the sculptures of Rahotep and his wife, mentioned by Iskander, and the painting from the tomb of Ramesis III, also mentioned by Iskander. Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois, one of the greatest scholars of the 20th century, wrote the following in his book, The World and Africa: "We may give up entirely, if we wish, the whole attempt to delimit races, but we cannot, if we are sane, divide the world into whites, yellows, and blacks, and then call blacks white." White scientists and scholars have had a heyday defining and redefining races according to their own racist predilections, without regard for logic or any other defensible paradigms. Hence, their disciples congregate in this space and offer to us nonsense about blonde mummies and blue eyed Egyptians and scoff at us when we question their sanity. If White science is unscientific, why should we expect its followers to be less so? In any case, as we enter the 21st century, we as people of African descent must return integrity to the study of history. It is our responsibility, as direct descendants of the parents of the human family, to rise above the shortcomings of the White monopolists and, drawing upon all of the resources at our disposal, i.e., astronomy, architecture, art, language, sacred writings, anatomy, archaeology, genetics, etc., present a fair and objective picture of the history of the human race. Since we know that Black people have played a significant part in that history, this site is devoted to telling the story of African people and their descendants. The following, then, is an excerpt from an article that presents the Africentric definition of Kemet. We certainly hope that the brilliant scholar, who identifies himself as Blackfacts, will provide input regarding this, since he has expressed concerns about the definition of this word. "Kemet is what the ancient people of the Nile Valley called what is erroneously known as 'Ancient Egypt.' According to European egyptologists Egypt is a Greek word, a corruption of the city name 'He ka Ptah' (city of Ptah). The word Egypt was not used until 300 b.c.e., after the conquest of Kemet by Alexander, son of Phillip of Macedonia. In books by European egyptologists, Kemet is translated as "the black land," in an attempt to state that the people named their country after the soil that resulted from the annual inundation of the Nile River. This is not the translation that the texts themselves show us. Before looking at the correct meaning of the word Kemet, a brief description of the way Medu Netcher operates will be provided. Medu Netcher is a highly complex language that exists on many levels. It is pictorial (ideograms), symbolic (determinatives), and phonetic (phonograms) at the same time. Any symbol could be pictorial (used to represent itself). Determinatives are generally used at the end of words to help clarify meaning. There are three types of phonograms: 1. monoliterals (one sign, one sound), 2. biliterals (one sign, two sounds), and 3. triliterals (one sign, three sounds). Monoliterals are also used as phonetic complements. A phonetic complement is used as a reading aid; it may be placed before or after a bi- or triliteral as a visual reminder or reinforcement of the pronunciation of the word shown. This is the word Kemet [Image]. The first symbol, a piece of charred wood (some say a crocodile's spine), is the biliteral "km." The owl symbolizes the monoliteral "m," used in this instance as a phonetic complement. The third symbol is a loaf of bread, the monoliteral "t." The last symbol, a determinative, is very important for our discussion of this word. This symbol depicts an aerial view of a circular walled settlement displaying a network of roads. Here the symbol is drawn in abstract which has been reduced to the two principal axes [Image]. These types of cities have been unearthed in excavations in Upper Kemet dating from the oldest epochs of urbanization. Also this symbol has been documented on predynastic palettes. This symbol is very easily distinguished from the symbol for land, [Image]ta, which represents the flat plain of the valley that is often painted black to represent the fertile soil. It invokes the idea of Ancient Kemet, the black flood plain, the gift of the Nile; which is quite different from the concept of Kemet as the civilized Country of the Blacks, which is the literal translation of the word [Image]Kemet in Medu Netcher. One concept represents the land given to the Ancient Africans by God, and the other represents the country as a civilized unit developed by the Africans themselves. As shown in Alan Gardiners' Egyptian Grammar book, [Image]is a naturally occurring symbol, and is a [Image]man-made symbol. Therefore it is not possible to correctly state that they mean the same thing; undeveloped land is different than developed land. When the people wanted to describe themselves, they used the same symbols, Kmt, but they changed the determinative to a seated man and woman, placed in front of the plural sign (three vertical strokes), indicating a collective nominative, referring to "human beings," "people," "ethnic groups," which taken in total can only be translated as [Image]"Black People." Most Europeans translate this word as "Egyptians." It is obvious that anyone who has studied the language of Kemet and continues to translate these words as "Egypt" or "Egyptian," is purposely attempting to mislead and misinform. The proper translation of classical African languages is part of the work that must be done in order to "construct a body of modern human sciences, in order to renovate African culture."(7) Footnotes 1. Sir Alan Gardiner, Egypt of the Pharaohs, Oxford University Press, 1961, pg. 19. 2. Adolf Erman, Life in Ancient Egypt, Dover Publications, Inc., 1971, pg. 29. 3. Ibid. pg. 30. 4. Theophile Obenga, "Genetic Linguistic Connections of Ancient Egypt and the Rest of Africa," in African Intellectual Heritage: A Book of Sources, ed. by Molefi Kete Asante and Abu S. Abarry, Temple University Press, 1996, pg. 266. See also Theophile Obenga, Ancient Egypt and Black Africa: A Student's Handbook for the Study of Ancient Egypt in Philosophy, Linguistics, and Gender Relations, Kamak House, 1992. 5. Ibid. pg. 281. 6. Ibid. pg. 271. The spiritual system of Kemet laid the foundation for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. See also Who Is This King of Glory?, by Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Kessinger Publishing Co., Christianity Before Christ, John G. Jackson, and The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read, ed. by Tim Leedom. 7. Cheikh Anta Diop, Civilization or Barbarism: An Authentic Anthropology, Lawrence Hill Books, 1991, pg. 3. copyright 1998 CHEIKH ANTA DIOP INSTITUTE OF EGYPTOLOGY AND AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS To learn more about Medu Netcher, The Cheikh Anta Diop Institute of Egyptology and African Civilization is proud to offer the book, Let the Ancestors Speak: Removing the Veil of Mysticism from Medu Netcher, by Ankh Mi Ra. The price of the book is $19.95, and ordering instructions may be obtained by e-mail from netcher@juno.com. A correspondence course is also available. Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT news, The Clegg Series.

Legrand H. Clegg II
USA - Friday, October 22, 1999 at 00:29:37 (EDT)


Klondike man, all people genes carry back to an ancestor and whether we like it or not that ancestor was a memeber of the Khoisan complex of Southwest Africa. There is no race, except the Human race. We are all Black African people in genetic composition.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 20:39:01 (EDT)


I, too, took the challenge, I explored "The Egyptians Were Not Black" website and found it to be peculiarly interesting. Why is that? Well, I took special interest in the multidimensional scaling (MDS) of the crania dimensions. I recall Mr. Wagdi genetic analysis of the Portuguese having more genetic material in relation to Black Africans than the supposedly "Mediterranean" Egyptians, but according to the website he referred us to, it appears that the skull morphology of Upper (Pre-dynastic) Egypt exist in a nebulous space between the "Negroid" and the "Caucasoid" groupings. Why? Even the reputedly "genetically closer related" Portuguese (Neolithic population) are place more square within the Caucasoid range, where it can be seen for all and undisputedly. One would argue, that although the Upper Egypt (pre-dynastic) sample is on the outskirts of the Caucasoid group, it is still in closer proximity to that grouping. Yeah and what are you saying? If the placement of populations are dictated by the populations adjacentness to a "racial norm", then why are the "unarguably Nordic" or "Mediterranean" Egyptians located on the Caucasoid periphery? Black Facts answered this question---> "The old "Dark White" theory proposed that whites could adapt dark skins, broad noses, thick lips, etc., while traits like narrow noses, thin lips, fair skins, etc., were evidence, even when found in isolation, of white intermixture or even white provenance!" Does this sound like convenient reasoning? Blackfacts pontificates---> "Indeed, this hearkens back to heories of the physical variability of "Caucasoids" as opposed to the static, fixed "Negroids", "Mongoloids", etc. " Also, Sherry argued about an earlier "Nordic" influence in Egypt, but according to the (MDS) again, this proposition is debunked as fantasy. The Upper (predynastic) Egypt population is much closer to Black Africa and in terms of proximity, farther from the Lower Egypt (Late Dynastic period) population than it is to Black Africa. The Lower Egypt (Late Dynastic) population is as close as you can get to a Caucasoid norm. So by understanding scaling maps and knowing spatiality is just as important as generalized classification, we see the Multidimensional scaling technique actually confirms the Egyptian is Black theory and does nothing to support either Sherry's or Mr. Wagdi's position. If it supported Sherry's, the pre-dynastic Egyptians, whether they were Lower or Upper Egyptians, would be closer to the Nordic context of skull morphology. This not the case. Only Late Egypt is proximal to Caucasoid ideals, which is interesting since this is supposedly the period of Black Africanization. Mr. Wagdi is no more accurate as he flips between various contexts and argues the Egyptians to be Mediterranean but not as profoundly Caucasoid as Nordics. Yet he refers us to a site which groups the Egyptians within a stone's throw reach of the typical Nordic. I cite the close proximity of group #10 (Switzerland) to the Late Dynastic Lower Egyptians. His claim of the Western Euroasian (whatever that is) is disspelled, as well, because they, presumably "Western Asians" (Palestinians [Jericho], Iranians, etc.) are divided from the Egyptians by a Neolithic French population. No where to run because even if the term "Neolithic" hints to a pre-Nordic group, the "hinted-to" group must be the Africoid Grimaldi population of the Late Paleolithic to Early Neolithic ages in Europe, especially southern Europe. Oh, one funny thing! The Late Dynastic Egyptians is the MDS refers to the 26-30 dynasties, which even Sherry knows were not native Egyptian dynasties. I can speak forever on the this scale but I believe everybody gets the picture. At one time, (I believe I said this before [deja vu]) the Fulani were believed to have been a mixture of Berber and "Negroid elements", whoever genetic have shown this not to be the case. There were no genetic marker associating the Fulani, whether the sedantary Muslim or the pastoral (Wooababe-Red), to Caucasoids. Eventhough, many Fulani now believe they are descended from "Caucasoid" Berbers. Funny, though, the Fulani do not speak a Berber language, but a West African language called Fulbe or Peul, which is group into the West Atlantic linguistic group of the Niger-Congo superphylum. Interesting note: A nice percentage of Fulani were carried to the Americas as slaves, despite their reputedly Caucasoid features. More I will save until later!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 20:36:12 (EDT)


There is a noted anthropologist who wrote that human variation grades without break from one region to another, and the continuum can be cut into "races" however one might choose to suit one's convenience. When all is said and done, there are two alternatives for those who insist on separating the world into black and white: (1) Egyptians were one of the whitest of all black races or (2) one of the blackest of all white races. I don't see how either alternative does much benefit to race-patriots of either variety. Just getting my 2 cents in.

Klondike-man
Age: 16, USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 20:18:28 (EDT)


If the Egyptians had soft blond or red hair, why did they wear wigs that look like black african cornrolls. Why are the wigs curly like naps, and not straight like the Aryan stereotype. In fact why do they where the wigs at all, when they look so black African in nature. I wonder......Also check out the profile of the Sphinx, it looks "negroid to me." This actual image of the Sphinx was posted on a plastic surgery center website. http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/proceedure_folder/nasal_deformity_sphinx.html#anchor_sphinx

Curtis
USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:48:55 (EDT)


If the Egyptians had soft blond or red hair, why did they wear wigs that look like black african cornrolls. Why are the wigs curly like naps, and not straight like the Aryan stereotype. In fact why do they where the wigs at all, when they look so black African in nature. I wonder......

Curtis
USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:39:59 (EDT)


Check out royal scribe Hesire, and King Zoser (click on the 1/2 image size and notice the profile); some of the others are admittedly ambigous at best. But at least I'm willing to link to everything. All of the images on the "Egyptians are not Black" web page that the "arab" dude keeps linking to, are also found here. Notice the tan on the Nordic Rahotep, not bad for someone who should be 20 shades lighter than that. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00131.html

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:21:29 (EDT)


Check out royal scribe Hesire, and King Zoser (click on the 1/2 image size and notice the profile); some of the others are admittedly ambigous at best. But at least I'm willing to link to everything. All of the images on the "Egyptians are not Black" web page that the "arab" dude keeps linking to, are also found here. Notice the tan on the Nordic Rahotep, not bad for someone who should be 20 shades lighter than that. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00131.html

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:20:39 (EDT)


Rahotep & Nofret, the Aryans dream. I'm posting them anyway because even though Rahotep doesn't look black, he sure is dark for an Aryan. Also, in one of Van Sertima's books on Egypt, someone wrote a detailed (though preliminary) article on why he thought these images either forgeries. I'm not saying he is right, but we should consider the possiblity. I'll try to get the name of the book and the pages so that all of you can check it out for yourselves. It is very interesting. Also some archeologists ascribe a much later date to this sculpture, and I'm talking about whites not blacks. But here is the link to the images http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00130.html

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:16:07 (EDT)


Wow, look at how "Aryan" Amenophis III looks; and i thought Aryans had sharp noses and then lifts. Now I realize that Aryans must be negroes. Thanks to the neo-nazis my eyes have been open. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00128.html ---- Also look at the "Portrait of an elegant lady" from the Tomb of Menena in Thebes. I never knew Aryans had black skin.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:10:49 (EDT)


Look at Semenkhkara & the Princess Meritaten; or Akhenaten. If these are Nordics then all "negroid" peoples are. Click on the link that says "1/2" for the biggest images. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00127.html

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:07:02 (EDT)


"Goddess" Hathor (won't tell ya what I think) http://rubens.anu.edu.au/cgi-bin/jreduce.pl/new3/charlotte/0349/034906.JPG/2 ----- What about Seti I, he doesn't look very Nordic to me. ----- King Horebheb looks like many of the black men here in New York (admit it) http://rubens.anu.edu.au/cgi-bin/jreduce.pl/new3/charlotte/0351/035107.JPG/2

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:04:41 (EDT)


All of these image links are from the Australian National University (and no, it is not run by the aboriginals). Look at Akhnaton, looks black to me. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00125.html ------- look at the profile of the Sphinx (looks black to me) http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00124.html

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:00:52 (EDT)


Look at this website containing Egyptian sculptures. It is by no means Afrocentric (it doesn't even address the issue to my knowledge. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00129.html . Again, notice how even if the bust of nefertiti is real it is more Ethiopic than anything "caucasian." Also, look at the images of Sesostris I and Mentuhotep I, they look black african to me. Metherthy may not be black, but then again, he is a farmer, not a royal. ----

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 15:56:22 (EDT)


About the bust (sculpture) of Nefertiti. There are hundreds of images on the walls of various Egyptian archeological sites depicting her purely as black African. On top of that, the well-known (white) historian John Anthony West says this about the bust "The famous bust of Nefertiti, Akhenaton's wife and one of the most beautiful women ever depicted, is in all likelihood not Nefertiti. This bust was found with other treasures, in the abandoned sculpture studio at Akhenaten. Since Nefertiti disappeared from the inscriptions some seven years prior to the disbanding of Akhenaton's city, the bust, unfinished at the time and still being worked on, is almost certainly not Nefertiti, but perhaps one of her daughters." Perhaps one of her daughters, he says. But that in itself is mere (and inaccurate) speculation given all of the other evidences. But lets say the bust in dispute is real, it most definitely isn't nordic. There is no blond hair, blue eyes, or pale skin. She looks far more like an Ethiopian (Somali, Eritrean, i.e.) variation of black Africans than anything close to be nordic, or any other white racial group. Give it a rest already. This is the same bust Hitler used to make his point. It is so moronic it is sad.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 15:47:17 (EDT)


I think Ive worked out how the cocked up half baked arab we know as Iskander brian works.You see the arabs are one of the most anti black racist people you will ever meet.In the koran Mohamad said that white people were created by the right hand of allah from pure water and that black folks were created by his left hand and were a mistake.That is is why moslems use their right hand for eating and their left hand for wiping their backsides.I know it seems sick but it is totally true,moslems have thought black people to hate themselves.A good examample of this are the Swahili who are as black as you and me but a large number of them claim to be arabs others even claim to be persians and indians.So any brother who claims islam is the black manns religion should maybe learn a little more about from were and who its coming from.The arabs took the indiginus black people of Kemit(our ancestors not yours mr wagdu)and sold them to the white man who brought to America.So you see Mr Wagdu has his Egypt but Kemit belongs to the black peoples. And Mr wagdu wants to be an Aryan well of coarse he does because as I said before muslems are anti black so for them theyd rather be anything but a nigger.

Osiris
USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 14:27:02 (EDT)


I can see that the person who posted this IS REALLY FROM EGYPT. He knows as I do the writing is ALL on the WALLS within the pyramids. Half of you black wanna be egyptians never even been to Egypt...yet you make such claims...when in reality, you dont know your black ass from a hole in the ground.READ THE FACTS: Here are some links to interesting pictures,http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/index.html Most of the pictures here are from the old kingdom, they clearly show Nofret daughter of Khufu was fair skinned and had blue eyes, the man seated beside her is her husband Rahotep.The picture at the top of the page of a fairly overweight man is Hemiunu.Heminunu oversaw the building of Khufu's pyramid, but hang on a minute the ancients were black, why would a Caucasian oversee the building of the pyramids (which you argue were the results of black genius)and why does Khufu's daughter have such a light complexion? Why?Well ether theres a conspiracy where the evil Egyptians/Arabs(who are apparently are not Egyptian at all but asiatics) and evil devil white men have destroyed all the original artifacts and replaced them with fakes, because they are afraid of the mighty black africans (who also happened to invent everything ever worth inventing in history)rising up from the sorry state their people are in and taking over the world or perhaps due to the society which Afro-Americans live in, which is riddled with racism they/you need to have a feeling of superiority,greatness and a belief you are decended from kings and queens, just because you have a massive chip on your shoulder and no self-confidence.It makes sence for you to blame others for your problems.In fact you lot have alot in commom with the Nazis, just like they blamed the Jews for all Germanys problems and made up a false history of an ancient Aryan race whho throughtout history the Jews were trying to destroy.Just replace the Jews with Arabs and whites,the German race with the black race and the ancient Aryans with the ancient Egyptians and you have a new master race full of brainwashed automaton's.It is very important that history dosent repeat itself because we all know what happened to the Jews last time around.(this is directed only at people like Thutmos Turner and Osiris who in below posts have used some vulgar and extremely offensive language which I will not repeat.So if your hear for a genuine love and interest in history please do not be offended) The genetic tests I posted below show that the ancients(my ancestors,and yes I am Egyptian and proud)had much more in common with the mediterranean peoples of Europe and Asia than Ethiopians.Actually the Portugese are more closly related to black africans in genetic terms than us Egyptians(Modern Indians are more closly related to Etiopians and Somalis than the people of Predynastic upper Egypt). I made it clear the meaning of the Greek word melanchroies so I will not go into that again. Herodotus compared the Egyptians to "Colchians"-were the Colchians black Africans. The Colchians inhabited what is roughly modern-day Georgia in the Caucasus, so the vast majority were most likely --- and quite literally --- CAUCASIAN.Herodotus' exlanation that being melanchrroes or oulutrches "indeed counts for nothing, since other peoples are, too" suggests that these adjectives did not apply exclusively to any one "race" of people.The description of Colchians by Herodotus can be contrasted with that of Hippocrates,who wrote of the Colchians in Phasis"have an appearance different from that of other men.As to size,they are large and corpulent in body.Neither joint nor vein is evident.They have a yelloish flesh, as if victims of jaundice"(Hippocrates,Airs,Waters,Places 15).Nothing in Hippocrates, descrition suggests that Colchians look anything like sub-Saharan Africans and this further wekens the Afrocentric argument that Egyptians and Colchians must have looks like "blacks" on the basis of Herodotus' Words. Also when Herodotus,other classical writer and the Ehtiopians said that Egypt was a colony of Ethiopia thay were not lying.If you remember the 25th dynasty was of Ethiopian origin and only a couple of hundred years before Herodotus visited Egypt ,Egypt was ruled from Napata in the heart of Nubia/Ethiopia(Afrocentrists twisting the truth again). Other ancient quotes cited by Afrocentrists Other ancient quotes that some Afro-Egyptocentrists interpret in such a way as to conflict with other descriptions such as the ones I quoted before.These are marred by basically the same failings as the Herodotus quote described above in interpreting Greek words such as mlanchroes as "negro", and failing to recognize stereotypes and exaggerations.Using the same faulty techniques, Afrocentrists might as well say Jews in the Middle Ages were "black"(I wouldnt be surprised if they did) because Joeeph ben Nathan in the 13th centuary quoted his father as saying "we Jews come from a pure,white source, and so our faces are black".Of course to do this would igore the fact that in medieval Europe as in ancient Greece,"black" often meant "swarthy".Likewise Afrocentrists could insist that 12th centuary Turks were "black" on the basis of their being exaggerated as "blacker than pitch or ink" in the epic Chanson d'Aspremont.But we know on the basis of physical remains and ample pictorial evidence that neither the Jews nor Turks were actually "black" in medieval times. Heres interesting information about the picture (can be seen in in most Afrocentric books)that Afrocentrics say is proof that the Egyptians saw themselves as looking the same as Nubians/Kushites/Ethiopians can be found at www.deja.com Subject:Re:photos of "black Egyptians" Date: 1999/05/11 Author:Bernard Ortiz de Montellano Civilization: Dear Paul, Those figures in the Lepsius Erganzungsband,pl.48 are not actually Lepsius' work, but a re-edition done in 1913, as Ishowed in my article in Egypt in Africa(Bloomington,IM:Indiana University Press, 1997).To make matters worse , the hieroglyph texts between these figures were garbled.The original scenes both in Sety the 1st's tomb and in Ramesses the 3rd's tomb showed the Egyptians and the Kushites as distinctly different.Also, the hieroglyphs on the real walls are distributed between each of the four figures depicting each type.You can now view the real photographs of both the Sety the 1st and Ramesses the thirds walls in Hornung's volumes on the valley of the Kings.I have been inside both tombs myself and have seen these scenes and their texts, and on the basis of this, the depiction in Erganzungsband is not the real depiction of what is on the walls but rather a pastische, arranged from Lepsius' notes and garbled in the process.It is unfortunate that so many people have depended on this depiction as reality, when a look at the walls in both tombs shows that patently it is not reality. Most sincerly Frank J.Yurco ***** Regards http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/smiting.html Picture of Ramesses the second smiting a Libyan,Nubian/Ethiopian and a Asiatic.Notice how the artist used the same pigment for Ramesses as he did for the Asiatic,think about that!Now compare the facial features of Ramesses to the Nubian and the Asiatic,notice how Ramesses looked almost complestly like the Asiatic apart from the beard.I know its only a picture but I think its fairly obvious that Ramesses was not black, further weakening the Afrocentric arguement. http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/prisoner.html This is a picture of an Nubian/Ethiopian Captive.Take a look closly does he look Egyptian, I dont think so and if dont agree I think you should probably see an optician. P.S.Its a pity pictures cant be posted on this page I could probably end this debat hear and now.And as I said more to come incluning quotes,dental and hair evidence and more genetic tests.

Laughing in Your Face
Black liars world-wide r exposed, USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 11:42:11 (EDT)


To the (mythological) "Aryans;" not that it ultimately matters, but I am still awaiting the answer to the following question. What did the Nordic peoples (Germanic, Aryan, Scandinavian, etc.) contribute in terms of science, culture, or the arts BEFORE 1000 A.D.. Please don't tell me what the "Mediterraneans" did or "Hamites," or the southern Europeans, the Eastern Europeans, the Semitic Peoples, the Sumerians, Elamites, Indians, Romans or Greeks (all of whom are not Nordics according to Hitler & the neo-nazis). Tell me what the berserker nations, the vikings, the "Aryan"/Nordics ever did. Their math and mathematical symbols are not their own, their alphabet is not their own, even their science and arts are not their own. Why did the Romans consider them Barbarians (Me thinks because they were). Why are vikings (Nordics) associated with raping, pillaging, murder, and mayhem. Why do we have images of them in bearskins (from whence the term berserker originates). Why do so many neo-nazi groups continue to this very day, to identify themselves along with the berserkers and the vikings. What did they ever do to "advance civilization." I suspect that i will never get a valid answer. Also consider the pyramids in the Americas. They rival the Egyptian pyramids in some aspects. Were the American Indians white aryans? You probably think so. --- Listen, all people are created equal in God's eyes, so the question is moot. But from an historical perspective, your own fellow Europeans, as well as the inhabitants of the rest of the world testify against you. "Nordics" have to foster the myth of their superiority because they know that all of history (up until the middle ages or so) indites them as being amongst the most savage and UNcivilized of the peoples of the world. This is all so very sad.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 10:41:34 (EDT)


Mr. Bridges, may I be so bold as to add this book is only about $17.00 and is in paperback form. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 03:22:02 (EDT)


Hello to all that are interested in expanding their knowledge base. I have recently fell across a book by the name of Ancient and Modern Britons by David MacRitchie. In it he discuses the original inhabitants of Europe and Briton as being Moors (aka black, negroe, african-american.) He also in several passages discusses the fact that these same people founded other civilizations including Egypt. If anyone cares to challenge me on this first obtain a copy of the book read it. Oh, by the way the book was originally written in the 1800's by a white man from the UK who looked deeply into the history of his own land. Salaam.

Henry Bridges <bridgeh@med.unc.edu>
Age: 25, USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 23:05:14 (EDT)


Brothers and sisters, I admit I may have exaderated a bit when I referred to the Sherry thing and her fellow neo nazi Black haters as Australopithicus savages. Australopithicus was of course an ape like humanoid who lived more than 5 million years ago and never left Africa and died out about 1 million years ago. This is evidence that they are not Austrolopithicus. The same for Homo habilis in extenction for 1.6 million years. I was in error. I now estimate these people to be of Homo erectus (upright man) with a larger brain capacity and was the first to leave Africa ad thought to be extenct 1.7 million years. Theory has it that a few of them strayed a were caught behind the polar icecaps. Wallah.....the Sherry thing and her neo nazi kinsman polluting this site. Can you imagine the barbarians of Europe building the 65 foot monument of Ramesse II? Again, where are the European monuments? We know of all the "AFRICAN" monuments, cities, libraries, pyramids, etc. etc. WHERE ARE THE EUROPEAN ACHIEVEMENTS OF THIS ERA???????? Where are they? The question will never be answered through all eternity! Did the whites pack them all up and transplant them in Africa? Did all the smart people leave Europe and settle in Africa? Never-mine the monuments....just show us the evidence they even had a system of writing! SAVAGES amongst us! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 22:41:17 (EDT)


Brother Kwabena, thank you for exposing the so-called Iskander Wagdi. This may translate to "I AM A NEO NAZI WHITE BOY". One of the site this trailer trash referred to is a site called "The Ancient Egyptians Were Not Black". This is so weak that it is almost entertaining. Imagine....a site created just for people of this ilk to attempt convincing people that we don't have a heritage othewr than slavery. Notice the savages can never tell you our origin but they can tell you what our origin is not! To enter this subject would make fools of their crimminally insane ramblings. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 22:08:33 (EDT)


Is Mr. Wagdi confused? Mr. Wagdi says----->"The genetic tests I posted below show that the ancients(my ancestors,and yes I am Egyptian and proud)had much more in common with the mediterranean peoples of Europe and Asia than Ethiopians.Actually the Portugese are more closly related to black africans in genetic terms than us Egyptians(Modern Indians are more closly related to Etiopians and Somalis than the people of Predynastic upper Egypt)." He speaks of a Mediterranean race in Southern Europe and Asia, but where are they now? Did he say Portuguese but by definition of local race, linguistic correlation and geographical location, the Portuguese are more Mediterranean than anything else. Yes, the Vandals and the Visigoths did invade Portugal but there was also an indigenous population there. The Portuguese may have been invaded by the Germanic Vandals and Visigoths, who are or were a Nordic type, but studying the phenotypic features of the Portuguese no one would confuse them with Swedish people. Sherry called an Eygptian Black and Mr. Wagdi asserts he is genetically related to the Mediterraneans, but not the Mediterranean Portuguese. It seems like contradictions to me and you got it straight for the mouths of those who said it. Excuse me, Mr. Wadgi, but I didn't mean to misspell your name. Oh yeah, good written and grammatical correct English for a third language. I commend you for your astounding efforts.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 21:29:43 (EDT)


Yes, Sherry refered to Mr. Wagdu as Black, but he is Egyptian. Why is that? Mr. Wagdu says this----->"I was born and raised in Egypt and it makes me laugh at you foreingers saying that our ancesters looked like Nordics or Ugandans." Piece the puzzle with me. "?"

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minnesota, MN USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 21:15:40 (EDT)


I hate to start something I see a snake! Sherry posted some time ago------->"One of your black brothers have posted a link right below my large post..his name is " Iskander Wagdi . It may be very educational for all of you to click on his name/link, to visit the web page he has refered you all to. I did. It is very interesting...." Hmmm... Now watch this!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 21:08:58 (EDT)


Iskander, I don't believe you have read anything that Blackfacts wrote. I think you should go back and read. I have just taken a copy of everything Blackfact (I informed Blackfacts that I was doing this)wrote and emailed it to George Sarafis at http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/ and I am awaiting his response.

Mackens P. Audena
Age: 20, USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 20:23:38 (EDT)


Just out of curiosity! Mr. Iskander Wagdi, do you have fair skin and blue eyes? Also, is your hair blonde? To Sherry, it's been some time now since our initial discussion so may I refresh your memory because you never provided FACTS that could be scrutinized. The only thing you have supplied were hierogylphic interpretations, which can be used flexibly according to one's agenda. Oh yeah, I forgot you gave your eyewitness account of blonde pharaohs and queens, which I did see pictures of in the Stormfront's website. (No pun intended, because this is truth) Besides your assertations can be seen as radical for Western norms and no scholar has come forth to support your blue-eyed and blonde Egyptians (not those Western academically accepted). I have presented, although very brief, a list of African/Egyptian cultural characteristics, but it seems those so obsessed with "blonde pictures" finds this either too trivial or too profound. I, even, provided evidence that your "intriguing" Egyptians did practice excision, which you un-educatedly categorize as an unique African "savage" tradition. Why have you fail to scrutinize my position; is it because you can't refute my claims or none of the other claims here? Is this why you now proceed to call us "liars" and attack the basic integrity of this website, as well as, African people? What is your motivation? Frustration. Did you not, in attempts to dehumanize African people, present a barrage of stereotypes which you know nothing about? I believe so. This is why you dodge an intellectual confrontation with my words. So convenient! To claim Egyptians weren't Black, next degrade African people and grossly mis-represent cultural values and concepts, then to condemn those who refute your position as liars, when you haven't even adequately proven your position. This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I have looked at the words of you and your colleagues, analyze them and using the discerning eye of an anthropology student, attempted to figure out your motives. Never once have I in the course of this discussion attacked Europeans based on the cultural ideas, unlike others; to do so would be biased. I had decided to remain quiet, as the foolish is the one who doesn't listen and weigh things before speech, but proceeds to argue with the vigor of a ox things he does not know. But I can not allow someone, the least interested in African culture, slaughter cultural practices and walked away with questioning! This is to save the fool! Odabo! I have plenty of questions, as I said before, that have never answered or replied to; at best, the majority were only brushed aside as irrelevant or with a catch-all excuses utilize by those who don't know the answer. You have some explaining to do. If not, then we know who the LIAR is!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 20:06:48 (EDT)


keep up the good and necessary work!!!!!!!! Let me know if I can be of any help. I have already reccommended the readings to several friends. Tya

Tya Wahington <titabell@yahoo.com>
Age: 27, Houston, Tx USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 19:38:47 (EDT)


Brother Curtis, you bring a smile to my face with your comments. I answer to your question, I don't think the Pharoahs would do as I have. Instead, they would nto have time to write for their wconstant and non-stop war waging on the enemy. Not just wars of the words but actual war. As Black men we all need to all ask ourselves daily..."HOW HAVE I WAGED WAR ON THE ENEMIES OF OUR PEOPLE TODAY". What have I done "TODAY" to stop the cocaine dumped in our communities; what have I done "TODAY" to stop the murder of our women and children (Kyesha Miller, Margaret Mitchell, children by so-called police officers; what have I done "TODAY" to stop the trashing of our image in the white/jewish controlled medias; What have I done "TODAY" to direct and thereby save the life of a Black child? I respect your comments my brother, but the Pharoahs would be out kicking the hell out of our enemies! We are at war my brother....no less than war with the ....... (you know). My comments are not to name call, they are my actual descritions of what I see in them. It is not my fault if it is not pretty! However, once again I admit to taking the non scholarly so called low road in responce to the savages. You take the high road and I take the low and if we are both fighting the enemy we will smash them between us. Our people are indeed in a demolition derby and if we don't wake up we will be demolished. There is no room and no time left for simply talk without direct action. This is our site as Black people to express ideas about and discuss our heritage.....that must be defended. If I am fighting to defend any ground we have catured (including here) then you should support it. You should just go on making your posts in defense and I will do the same. Damn the so-called bad spirits....lets get it on! I think the Pharoahs would use "ANY" and "ALL" means at their disposal to evict the barbarians. In fact, that is just what they were fighting then and us now. Self indulging and scholarly words have their place, but some times when you get in a dog fight one must use other words to fit the occasion. Compared to the advanced state of our people, the Pharoahs saw nothing but "AUSTROLOPITHICUS (white) SAVAGES" attacking them. Sadly.....SOME OF THEM HAVE NOT CHANGED MUCH--IF AT ALL. Is that my fault? Therefore why should I not called the ones that exhibit characteristic bahavior in accurate terms using accurate descriptive words? I have never yelled fire in movie theatre, but I would if there were a fire. Never stop a brother from fighting (in any way)....it does not inhibit your activities. "WE ARE NOT HYPED UP ENOUGH"! I don't visit neo nazi sites and attack them but I do come to this site for knowledge and will defend it. Let us work....if not together...lets just work! All the best to you my good brother. Thutmos Turner

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 15:39:11 (EDT)


Thut, I think you meant "Osiris," not "Curtis." As for your comments, we are in a discussion group not a demolition derby. Let us not get so hyped up that we lose our dignity. Can you really see any of the Pharoahs using sentences like "barbaric racist AUSTROLOPITHICUS savage neo nazi whites Sherry thing.." in any of their discourses. You keep bringing up Sherry, she is a non-issue now that she has been exposed. By responding to her in any manner, especially yours, you are causing the troublesome spirit to hang around even longer. The majority of her responses have been to you. Like an annoying itch, just ignore her, and eventually she will go away. Here is an interesting hypothesis: What if Sherry and Thutmose are really alter egos, and their is some scary Schizophrenic - multiple personality type of thing going on here. Or better yet, maybe they ARE two seperate people but there is a love-hate relationship forming. What was that Spike Lee movie/Stevie Wonder song called again? Somethin' about a Tropical illness? Oh never mind. Curtis

CurtissitruC <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 14:28:18 (EDT)


BLACK POWER!

KING NARMER
USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 12:48:44 (EDT)


Don't calm down brother Curtis! Don't calm down at all. Why should we not take our rightful place as world leaders. Whites are less than 10% of the population and their birthrates are falling through the floor fast. This is their reason for panic imprisonment and mass killing! They are even pushing multiculturalism in order to mix with our genes. They are in a state of crisis (as we are living in their barbaric society) and they are simply trying to survive! Don't calm down at all! Anyway, I am proud the way our brothers and sisters have stepped up to the plate and drove the barbaric racist AUSTROLOPITHICUS savage neo nazi whites (Sherry thing and friends) back into hell! We have defended our Black heritage and I declare victory in this round. It was absolutely masterful. I have learned a great deal from my brothers and sisters quotes and references while they answered the savages. I guess in this way the white supremist neo nazi savages have assisted us in achieving our goal.....whiich is the increase of THE KNOWLEDGE OF SELF. I never thought I would say thank you to a savage but..........no no I just can't do it! The savages just don't understand that Black peple (not negroes) don't care what white savages have to say. The day is over when we accept knowledge of self from the oppressor. The next thing these barbaric white savages will be saying is that Christopher Columbus discovered America. Maybe I am stretching a bit....not even the neo nazi savage Sherry thing wold go that far! Brothers you have done me proud and it will take me a month or so just to sift through the sources you provided in this last round with the savages. On with the war to unite our MINDS! The day we achieve this unity is the day racism white supremacy ends and peace and justice brought back to the planet. It has been only 400 years and they are already on their way out. Again, this is why the panic over what we think of ourselves. Hotep my brothers and sisters. Thutmos Turner

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 12:42:32 (EDT)


Jeez, Osiris, calm down.

Maksat Tohme
USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 10:03:56 (EDT)


Some day the white man will serve the black man and bow before him!!The WAR continues!!!!!

Osiris
USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 09:15:02 (EDT)


Whats the name address for the websight with the inscription of Uni?

Iskander Wagdi
USA - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 07:40:52 (EDT)


Here are some links to interesting pictures,http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/index.html Most of the pictures here are from the old kingdom, they clearly show Nofret daughter of Khufu was fair skinned and had blue eyes, the man seated beside her is her husband Rahotep.The picture at the top of the page of a fairly overweight man is Hemiunu.Heminunu oversaw the building of Khufu's pyramid, but hang on a minute the ancients were black, why would a Caucasian oversee the building of the pyramids (which you argue were the results of black genius)and why does Khufu's daughter have such a light complexion? Why?Well ether theres a conspiracy where the evil Egyptians/Arabs(who are apparently are not Egyptian at all but asiatics) and evil devil white men have destroyed all the original artifacts and replaced them with fakes, because they are afraid of the mighty black africans (who also happened to invent everything ever worth inventing in history)rising up from the sorry state their people are in and taking over the world or perhaps due to the society which Afro-Americans live in, which is riddled with racism they/you need to have a feeling of superiority,greatness and a belief you are decended from kings and queens, just because you have a massive chip on your shoulder and no self-confidence.It makes sence for you to blame others for your problems.In fact you lot have alot in commom with the Nazis, just like they blamed the Jews for all Germanys problems and made up a false history of an ancient Aryan race whho throughtout history the Jews were trying to destroy.Just replace the Jews with Arabs and whites,the German race with the black race and the ancient Aryans with the ancient Egyptians and you have a new master race full of brainwashed automaton's.It is very important that history dosent repeat itself because we all know what happened to the Jews last time around.(this is directed only at people like Thutmos Turner and Osiris who in below posts have used some vulgar and extremely offensive language which I will not repeat.So if your hear for a genuine love and interest in history please do not be offended) The genetic tests I posted below show that the ancients(my ancestors,and yes I am Egyptian and proud)had much more in common with the mediterranean peoples of Europe and Asia than Ethiopians.Actually the Portugese are more closly related to black africans in genetic terms than us Egyptians(Modern Indians are more closly related to Etiopians and Somalis than the people of Predynastic upper Egypt). I made it clear the meaning of the Greek word melanchroies so I will not go into that again. Herodotus compared the Egyptians to "Colchians"-were the Colchians black Africans. The Colchians inhabited what is roughly modern-day Georgia in the Caucasus, so the vast majority were most likely --- and quite literally --- CAUCASIAN.Herodotus' exlanation that being melanchrroes or oulutrches "indeed counts for nothing, since other peoples are, too" suggests that these adjectives did not apply exclusively to any one "race" of people.The description of Colchians by Herodotus can be contrasted with that of Hippocrates,who wrote of the Colchians in Phasis"have an appearance different from that of other men.As to size,they are large and corpulent in body.Neither joint nor vein is evident.They have a yelloish flesh, as if victims of jaundice"(Hippocrates,Airs,Waters,Places 15).Nothing in Hippocrates, descrition suggests that Colchians look anything like sub-Saharan Africans and this further wekens the Afrocentric argument that Egyptians and Colchians must have looks like "blacks" on the basis of Herodotus' Words. Also when Herodotus,other classical writer and the Ehtiopians said that Egypt was a colony of Ethiopia thay were not lying.If you remember the 25th dynasty was of Ethiopian origin and only a couple of hundred years before Herodotus visited Egypt ,Egypt was ruled from Napata in the heart of Nubia/Ethiopia(Afrocentrists twisting the truth again). Other ancient quotes cited by Afrocentrists Other ancient quotes that some Afro-Egyptocentrists interpret in such a way as to conflict with other descriptions such as the ones I quoted before.These are marred by basically the same failings as the Herodotus quote described above in interpreting Greek words such as mlanchroes as "negro", and failing to recognize stereotypes and exaggerations.Using the same faulty techniques, Afrocentrists might as well say Jews in the Middle Ages were "black"(I wouldnt be surprised if they did) because Joeeph ben Nathan in the 13th centuary quoted his father as saying "we Jews come from a pure,white source, and so our faces are black".Of course to do this would igore the fact that in medieval Europe as in ancient Greece,"black" often meant "swarthy".Likewise Afrocentrists could insist that 12th centuary Turks were "black" on the basis of their being exaggerated as "blacker than pitch or ink" in the epic Chanson d'Aspremont.But we know on the basis of physical remains and ample pictorial evidence that neither the Jews nor Turks were actually "black" in medieval times. Heres interesting information about the picture (can be seen in in most Afrocentric books)that Afrocentrics say is proof that the Egyptians saw themselves as looking the same as Nubians/Kushites/Ethiopians can be found at www.deja.com Subject:Re:photos of "black Egyptians" Date: 1999/05/11 Author:Bernard Ortiz de Montellano Civilization: Dear Paul, Those figures in the Lepsius Erganzungsband,pl.48 are not actually Lepsius' work, but a re-edition done in 1913, as Ishowed in my article in Egypt in Africa(Bloomington,IM:Indiana University Press, 1997).To make matters worse , the hieroglyph texts between these figures were garbled.The original scenes both in Sety the 1st's tomb and in Ramesses the 3rd's tomb showed the Egyptians and the Kushites as distinctly different.Also, the hieroglyphs on the real walls are distributed between each of the four figures depicting each type.You can now view the real photographs of both the Sety the 1st and Ramesses the thirds walls in Hornung's volumes on the valley of the Kings.I have been inside both tombs myself and have seen these scenes and their texts, and on the basis of this, the depiction in Erganzungsband is not the real depiction of what is on the walls but rather a pastische, arranged from Lepsius' notes and garbled in the process.It is unfortunate that so many people have depended on this depiction as reality, when a look at the walls in both tombs shows that patently it is not reality. Most sincerly Frank J.Yurco ***** Regards http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/smiting.html Picture of Ramesses the second smiting a Libyan,Nubian/Ethiopian and a Asiatic.Notice how the artist used the same pigment for Ramesses as he did for the Asiatic,think about that!Now compare the facial features of Ramesses to the Nubian and the Asiatic,notice how Ramesses looked almost complestly like the Asiatic apart from the beard.I know its only a picture but I think its fairly obvious that Ramesses was not black, further weakening the Afrocentric arguement. http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/prisoner.html This is a picture of an Nubian/Ethiopian Captive.Take a look closly does he look Egyptian, I dont think so and if dont agree I think you should probably see an optician. P.S.Its a pity pictures cant be posted on this page I could probably end this debat hear and now.And as I said more to come incluning quotes,dental and hair evidence and more genetic tests.

Iskander Wagdi
Tanta, Egypt - Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 07:38:41 (EDT)


Not only are your "idealogies" far from the truth, but just about all of you are nothing more than LIARS. To blackfacts...your mythical facts that you post are absurd. Have you been to Egypt? Really...have you? Evidnetally not. No one here, and specifically not you..can brain-wash me into your desperate attempts to make the world"black". I have LISTED numerous FACTS here..which no one could dispute. Though many have tried, and when they realized, it wasnt working with me...suddenly Im a racist..suddenly , Im a neo-nazi, a savage...etc etc. Now, from you...I am sopossed to have an "obsession" with blacks, and I go from board to board ..lurking? (laughing) You really are disturbed. I came across this site, one night while I was searching for some additional information related to Egypt. When I entered this site..I was astonished at what I had seen and read. The twisted facts that I read ...I had to respond...and I will keep on responding all of these lies. You can read ANY of my posts, there is nothing "racist" within my posts...just FACTS, and it seems as though when "blacks" are confronted with facts, its automatically "racist". Which is not true. If any of you were sincere in your efforts of study, you wouldnt twist facts to fit your beliefs, resort to name-calling, and call the race card when your confronted with facts that you dont like, and dont want to hear. Go read my posts. See for yourself...its a simple fact of how you and your people twist things and put words in other peoples mouths..afterall, many of you did it here to me...scroll down...read a little. I find it funny that you have the audascity to claim I lurk on "black" boards..can you clarify that ? Where have I been? Who I am , is no "Secret", and when I post something..it will have my name on it. I encourage you to check the ip#s' here..do you know how to do that? If so, check and see...then go to these other "black boards" and get the ip#s'...and get back with me. You are very immature. Also, the pallette of narmer...does anyone have a pic of it? I do, I can post it , and show everyone his features. As much as you would like him to be negroid, hes not. Also...no one has still proven the inscription of uni to be a real "fake" or "mistake". In fact, someone here put a link to the university of chicago egyptology and oriental studies..to refer peopole there for some so called "black" information on egypt. Well, its funny...I used the same website, and encouraged people here to look up the interpretation of the inscription of uni...and suddenly I was a barbaric savage racist..and that website was racist..and the egyptologist breadsted was racist..when I used it...but when your people used it..it wasnt racist. HHHmmmm...thats really going to make people think when they read that. It proves my point of not only the distortion of facts here, but, how anything that doesnt agree with this sites idealogy...is racist. That is hypocritical...and just by that one little mistake(though there have been numerous other contridictions here) of calling me a racist because I used the SAME EXACT SITE THAT YOUR BROTHERS USED AND POSTED A LINK TO...its obvious...what you people really are. In the future, learn history...and dont distort it...and accept history for what it is..because you surely cant change it .In Truth...Sherry

Sherry
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 22:15:28 (EDT)


I have no interest in disputing the claim that Egypt and not Greece being the seat of western law and I don't thinbk it really matters, however, in your article you quote a Greek saying: “Ex Africa semper liquid novi” You should be aware that this is Latin and not Greek (and especially not Ancient Greek). You may wish to go back to your sources for the original quote.

Miles <miles20@hotmail.com>
Age: 33, USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 20:54:03 (EDT)


I have taken a back seat to read and absorb of the posts. This is a learning experience for me. I have seen my brothers and sisters step to share their wealth of information like true defenders of their heritage and this makes me proud. For sometime, even before reading Diop and others, I have always assumed the indigenous peoples of India to be our kith and kin. There are those early findings of africoid (our as scholars try to cover and say "Negritos") people in lands far from Mama Africa and I would always wonder. Earlier this year, I conducted a rudimentary study of the Andamanese and now much I have presented and then some have been proven. It is also good to know my people are thinking, in terms, of the global collective of African people. Continue my people to research and write and I will enjoy the fruit of your labor. Bigups to Bros. Nepal, Blackfacts, Curtis, Rodney, Menes and all others who have diligent in their studies and wisdom in their words. As I finish reading, I will provide my perspective! Odabo. One Love!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 20:24:43 (EDT)


Brother S.R. Nepal, I couldn't find a way to contact you on your website. In any case, I am putting your a link to your website on my own.

Mack Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 20:05:29 (EDT)


Blackfacts, thank you for setting it all straight. Respect and Love for Mother Africa!Egyptians were Black. Here is a quote from http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancafristates.html "In fact, quite a few historians have postulated that African civilization follows along a continuous path. ...there was no interruption of African history. It is evident that, if starting from Nubia and Egypt, we had followed a continental geographical direction, such as Nubia-Gulf of Benin, Nubia-Congo, Nubia-Mozambique, the course of African history would still have appeared uninterruptied. This is the perspective in which the African past should be viewed. Cheikh Anta Diop, African scholar"

Mack Audena
Age: 20, USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 19:55:46 (EDT)


Now we're not supposed to refer to the Kamau as being either "black or white." Is this where we are to be assaulted with assertions of a "multiracial" Kemet after having discovered that there's copious documentation and a body of informed African-centered scholars and researchers willing to promote the African presence in the Hapi (Nile) Valley? Given the anti-African tirades posted in the recent weeks one can see that europeans and their colored adjuncts still haven't given up their Hegelian views and their attempts to commit historicide against African people. Read "THE PHILOSOPHY OF HISTORY" by Georg Hegel.Then again this is "intellectual warfare." And Curtis, thank you for expanding the discussion to the African/Black presence in western Asia. SOUL! PEACE! AND HAIRGREASE!

Rodney Cash Jr.
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 19:05:48 (EDT)


From "Europa: The History of the White Race" --- "Although Hammurabi himself was then clearly a descendent of one of the Nordic tribes and not one of the "black haired" peoples, as the Law Code reveals, by this time large numbers of the population had become distinctly Semitic, as waves of immigrants swarmed in from the Arabic heartland on the Saudi Arabian peninsula, drawn by the allure of the great Sumerian cities." ----- These "Aryans" are sad. Not one source on the web from any Mesopatamian Departments of any universities, translates "black-headed" as black-haired." Why do the Aryans twist the translation. All the sources that translate it as black-headed, are from whites. So are the white people in a grand conspiracy with the Afrocentrists? The neo-nazi argument is just plain stupid. Also, no other sources state that Hammurabi was a Nordic. If anything he was a semite. No modern day Assyriologist would be so foolish as to claim that these people were Nordics. It is true that he is called the white king, but he was hardly Scandinavian, germanic, or anything closely resembling these people. The Nordics were still wearing bearskins and calling themselves berserkers at this time. The Viking peoples were some of the most barbaric in Europe, and some of the last to be "civilized." Before the 1100's A.D. what did any Nordic (Germanic or Scandinavian) ever do to "advance civilization." My friends, the nazi's are jokers, and their fellow Europeans consistently prove it.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 18:11:52 (EDT)


Thanks for the replies. More about the artwork: on a website referred to previously in this discussion (click my name to get to the page) there is a picture of Ramses II holding captives by the hair. Here we have Egyptian, Nubian, and Asian all in the same picture. While the Egyptian and Asian both are painted using exactly the same "Egyptian red" pigment, the Nubian is clearly differentiated in terms of skin color as he is much darker than the rest of the figures. One other artwork I'd like to point out - which was not on the website - is a famous chest from Tutankhamen's tomb showing Tut slaying enemy armies. Tut's army is fighting Nubians on one side of the chest and Asiatics on the other. It is clear that the Egyptians are physically different from both enemies, but in terms of color they appear closer to the Asiatics. By the way, just to make my stance clear, I believe it is inaccurate to call Egyptians either black or white. Take care.

Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:57:41 (EDT)


Mr. Tohme. You've already proven yourself racist in earlier posts (The Arab rants) with your statements of Africans being underdeveloped and sarcastic tones to black people ever being in positions of power. Incidentally the Arabs had much the same to say about their Berber cousins, some of whom are black but many of whom are some variety of white. But anyway...you stated: "A suggestion for people in this forum: please find pictures of the ancient Faiyum portraits. There are many portraits that are of native Egyptians, and some of these have dark-skin, tightly-curled hair and relatively full lips (as in some but not all Greek descriptions), but at the same time could never be mistaken for a West African or even an Ethiopian." REALLY? SOUNDS LIKE BLACK FOLKS TO ME?!?! You been to West Africa? You've seen ALL West Africans? You seen ALL Ethiopians? Ever been to Ethiopia? And perhaps the ancient Egyptians did not look predominantaly like West Africans. Does that instantly make them non-black? Is West Africa the only habitable place in Africa? Groups like the Fulani claim descent from East Africa. So do the Yoruba of Nigeria. Why did the Egyptians draw the people of Punt so identical to themselves? Why do many Ethiopian medieval paintings draw themselves with very light skin and straight noses? Ever seen a picture of the late Haile Selassie? How bout Menelik II? You also state, "They show many lighter-skinned Egyptians, too." Come to my family reunion sometime Tohmey---I'll show ya' folks that range from chocolate deluxe to mocha to french vanilla. And guess what? They're ALL BLACK! Classify us as Hamites, Bantus, Negroes or what have you. Try as one might, you cannot wash off Mother Africa. HUMANITY is AFRICAN Tohme. You and Sherry betta stop running. And please, in following in the ways of Egyptians and other Africans---respect your black ancestors. Its the least you could do...

blackfacts
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:47:29 (EDT)


More on Sumerian Blacks (BTW these were written by the black-headed peoples themselves. Most scholars agree that the "black" refers to skin color not to hair since most of the people in that region were dark-haired). ------ The swift runner, a hurricane -- the strength of his loins is never ending, who emerges victorious from the race among the settlements; the terrifying one, who is furious in his running, the strongest among those selected from the people, ....... When he stretches his arms out, ...... at his sides. Culgi, ...... from the horizon. Because of his being most powerful, in his vigour ....... He, the tireless one, ...... the road. No king ever cared so much for the black-headed people; he established justice on a grand scale.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:45:09 (EDT)


Black Sumerians - http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr2412.htm ----- In the Gagiccua of the great palace, where she renders verdicts with grandeur, he made the great mother Ninlil glad. Enlil and Ninlil relished it there. In its great dining-hall, the trustworthy hero chosen by Nunamnir made them enjoy a magnificent meal: the E-kur was rejoicing. They looked with approval at the shepherd Ur-Namma, and the Great Mountain decreed a great destiny for Ur-Namma for all time, making him the mightiest among his black-headed people. 12-21In the E-tarsirsir, founded for you by An, you decide the fate of all the countries; you, my lady, render verdicts and decree judgements. Bau, in the E-tarsirsir, founded for you by An, you decide the fate of all the countries; you, Bau, render verdicts and decree judgements. The ...... protective genius directs your black-headed people before you in your courtyard in the holy city. Bau, the ...... protective genius directs your black-headed people before you in your courtyard in the holy city.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:42:16 (EDT)


Oh yeah, to Sherry. One of the reasons the Narmer bust was related to Narmer is because it DOES resemble the thick lipped and "bulbous" nosed figure on the celebrated Narmer pallette! I guess we each see what we want to see eh' STURMfront? Narmer comes from the south, where predynastic kings had set up their own kingdom in Upper Egypt. A visit to modern day Egypt will show Upper Egypt to still very "Africoid" in make up when compared to Lower Egypt. As the Egyptians themselves claim they come from the South, Like Narmer and the Horus kings and Souls of Neken, I suppose then that blond haired whites with white skin migrated from inner Africa eh? Woulda been heck on them when Ra made his ascent.... You're silly. If you wasn't such a little Nazi... I'd find you humorous... What happened Sherry? Got tired of haunting the other black boards? For those that don't know Sherry makes a habit of popping up on black boards and lurks silently in black listservs waiting to pounce. Her obsession with black people and black people's business is truly disturbing...

blackfacts
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:36:09 (EDT)


Dark, dusky, swarthy or black---all have been terms used to describe blacks. In the Greek quotes I gave you, Aristotle compares the Egyptians and Ethiopians in having the same skin color. He sees himself, the Greek, as having the medium tone. Replace black with dusky, swarthy, etc. and the comparisons are still there. And as for differentiations between artistic drawings of Nubians and Egyptians, well for one---they weren't always so. Often times the Egyptians painted Nubians in their same red ochre. In the reliefs of the people of Punt (modern day Somalia or Eritrea) the people are also drawn nearly identical to the Egyptians. Point is, I have seen numerous pictures depicting Egyptians and Nubians. And in many the Nubians are portrayed with black skin and very kinky hair. The Egyptians are portrayed with reddish brown skin and VARIOUS hair types--straight and kinky. But, having red-brown skin DOES NOT make the Egyptians non-black or non-African! All Africans DO NOT have jet black skin. In fact, the portrayal of Nubians in this manner is common during a certain New Kingdom period, and not the entire 3,00 year old dynasty. Why this stereotype of Nubians with very black skin, exceedingly thick lips and blonde wigs during this time period? It is unknown. Point is, it doesn't make the Egyptians any less Africoid. No more than it makes the Bedja of Somalia, the brown skinned Fulani of West Africa, or the slender thin nosed/lipped Tutsi non-Africoid. New York police sketch detective Frank Domingo (a man who has done numerous race profiles) could not help but be reminded of Puerto Rico as he walked the streets of modern day Cairo and Luxor. The African stamp upon many of the faces was obvious. As I have walked those streets myself, I was reminded of the same thing. It was like walking through the Dominican Republic or Brazil. The Africoid stamp was still evident on MANY of the modern day inhabitants of Egypt. The black skinned Nubians the New Kingdom Egyptians chose to portray are today very brown skinned (take a trip to Aswan sometime) and in fact look very much like the many reddish-brown peoples who can be found on the walls throughout ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt of today is a land of many different peoples who have settled in the region. Hate to break it to you, but black people do not all have "black" skin, very thick lips, kinky hair, etc. We have all the varieties in the world--- because in case you didn't know, we're the oldest people on the planet. Modern day Egyptians can claim to be WHATEVER they want to be. Its the politics of the world we live in. Better to be anything than black. So everyone from the very intermixed modern day Egyptians to some Somali to some Ethiopians to some black Brazlians to Tiger Woods---don't want to be black. That's politics talking. If you're white you're alright. If you're black---jump back! If politics was different, everybody today would be beatin' down the black door. You, Sherry and Iskander keep on lumping all Afrocentrics together. I do not fully agree with the KMT meaning "black people" statement. Neither do I think that ALL of Egypt was black. All of Egypt was not black just as ALL of Greece was not white. But Egypt was "PREDOMINANTALLY black" is what I contend; and you may take that in all the variants of black that exist in the Western Hemisphere today. You look at the "claimed" bust of Nefertiti and say "white girl." I look at the bust of a queen who was supposedly of Persian or Mittani and Egyptian heritage and say, "Mariah Carey." For further explanation look up the term "high yella" in Leroy's Urbanite Dictionary... Suffice it to say, if there were no black Africans who sat upon the thrones of Egypt---then there are no Africans in the United States, the Caribbean or South America. >>>>>>>>>>>"The way of looking at the world to be found in, say the Hebrew Bible or in Babylonia literature or amongst the Greeks is very different from anything you find in Egypt. And that difference is its Africaness."---Bruce Williams, Egyptologist/Nubiologist (white)

blackfacts
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:26:06 (EDT)


Link between black Indians and Sumerians from the following website: http://www.tamilnation.org/forum.htm 1.Tamil people are compared with the Sumerians: " The people responsible for the first monumental temples and palaces, for the founding of the first city states and most likely for the invention of writing (all in the period of 3100-3000 BCE) are the Sumerians. The first written signs are pictographic, so they can be read in any language and one can't infer a particular language. .....The Sumerians called their country ken.gi(r) 'civilised land', their language eme.gir and themselves sag.gi6.ga 'the black-headed ones 'Sumerian' has no known relation to any other language. There seems to be a remote relationship with Dravidian languages (like spoken by the Tamils, now in the south of India). There is evidence that the Dravidian languages were spoken in the north of India, being displaced by the arrival of the Indo-European invaders around 1500 BCE. Because of the term 'the black-headed ones', it is possible (but far from proven) that the Sumerians are an early branch of one of the people now living in southern India." In my view, if Tamil linguistic experts are involved in research to decode the Sumerian languages, there must be some interesting finding. The western historians, in my view, are handicapped because of their limited knowledge of literary Tamil. Of course, we the Tamils may not be able to understand even the Sangam Tamil... the biggest generation gap in our language! 2. Some of the Sumerian towns had names that resembles Tamil names ..Ur, Nippur and more so the name "Elam (Tamil Elangai) and the Elamites (people of Elam): The ruins of many famous ancient cities, like Eridu, Ur, Nippur and Kish are now far from the river, but were in the past situated at the river banks.Modern Iran is roughly equivalent to Persia and including in its south-western part ancient Elam. The Elamites are the people of Elam. 3. There is a spurious belief in India that Sanskrit is the oldest language and most languages are derivatives. The word 'Sans' and 'Script' means 'without' 'script'. Historians indicated that when Aryans brought their oral language, the Dravidians had a well developed language (Tamil) with script and that's why they called the Aryan language as "Sanscript". 4. There is another research undertaken by Mr Arunachalam of Tirunelveli District (Winner of the Chief Ministers Award and right now a teacher in Government School), on the question whether the languages spoken by Aborigines in Australia have some relationship with Tamil language. (Interested persons may refer to his book on that subject published by St Xaviers College, Palayamkottai, Tirunelveli Dt, India). He even suggested that the "boomerang' used by Aborigines was equivalent to "kalari erithal' in old Tamil literature which most of us thought as a highest imagination but seems to be reality. I am not a historian but I love the history and more so the History of Tamils. Nantri, Vanakkam and Meendum Santhippom.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:15:41 (EDT)


A suggestion for people in this forum: please find pictures of the ancient Faiyum portraits. There are many portraits that are of native Egyptians, and some of these have dark-skin, tightly-curled hair and relatively full lips (as in some but not all Greek descriptions), but at the same time could never be mistaken for a West African or even an Ethiopian. They show many lighter-skinned Egyptians, too.

Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:11:26 (EDT)


If you read the body of ancient Egyptian literature it is clear that skin color was of no concern to the Egyptians, yet the Nile and the land surrounding it was of central importance. It is impossible for me to believe they would have made skin color the central point of their identity, rather than the fertile strip of land which was of utmost importance to their civilization and way of life. Like Iskander said, in Egypt there were dichotomous terms kemit ("black land", fertile Nile valley) and deshret ("red land", desert). If you take kemit to mean "land of black people", then the word "deshret" would cease to make sense, unless you believe there were red people running around in the desert. And since the Egyptians had neighbors much darker than themselves, as their art shows, calling themselves "the black people" would have been utterly illogical. It would be useless because the term would not have differentiated them from their darker neighbors. If the Egyptians ever used skin color terms to denote ethnic groups, they would have applied "black" to Nubians, not Egyptians.

Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:53:32 (EDT)


Although I hate the biblical references, and I do not like the politics of the writer, I will post this any way for the historical record. This is from http://www.larouchepub.com/lar_go_with_flow_2546.html --- The primary sources show Sumer to be a settlement by a non-Semitic, "black-headed people," of the Dravidian language-group. The internal evidence corresponds to Herodotus' accounts of a Subcontinent-based (Shatki-Siva) maritime culture of the Dravidian language-group, which Herodotus associates with such locales as Yemen (Aththar), Ishtar (Mesopotamia), and Canaanite (Astarte). The Isis-Osiris cult is recognized as part of the same cultural set, as also the Phrygian Cybele-Dionysos, and Delphi Gaea-Python (Apollo) cult. The gross evidence is, that the Subcontinent-based branch of this Dravidian-language-group culture, associated with Harappa, went into decline during a period corresponding to some time during the Third Millennium B.C., a period corresponding to the growing influx of the Indo-European, Vedic culture, originating proximately from a relatively less arid period in Central Asia. The Semitic cultures of more recent times are by-products of the interaction between Egyptian culture and Dravidian-based influences such as those encountered in the Akkadians, Yemen, Ethiopia, and Canaan. Thus, whereas the original Hebrew, Mosaic faith is associated with Egypt, the Hebrew tradition following the first Babylonian captivity (accounting the Persian as the second Babylonian captivity) is mixed, syncretically, with the imposition of elements of the pagan mythologies of the Akkadians.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:45:36 (EDT)


An excellent site for ancient Black global history (1) http://orion.it.luc.edu/~cwinter/ -- (2)

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:42:16 (EDT)


Greetings all. I stumbled upon your site. I could not help but notice that the website you sent us by the Egyptian fellow spoke of the ancient Egyptians being related to the Dravidians. How humorous. You know the late great Cheikh Anta Diop said that those who did not favor an African Egypt often found themselves running from one black type (so-called Hammites) to another black type (Dravidian). Well guess what? I'm of Dravidian as well as modern African heritage myself. I guess I bridge both lands. Not suprising at all that Herodotus would state, "There are two Ethiopias---one to the south and the other to the East." Here's a page by the ever fighting Dravidian with whom I also share descent. If you are really Egyptian (native) as you say Iskander, then if you're of Dravidian heritage---you're certainly NO ARYAN! Being white is NOT always right!!!! This one's for Sherry as well...since she seems to be so fond of Aryans and their ilk. Visit the site of my people's resistance. Black People of the WORLD...UNITE AND FIGHT! http://dalitstan.org/journal/ BLACK AMERICANS FIRST AND FOREMOST! GO TO THIS SITE SO WE CAN LEARN OF EACH OTHER AND UNITE!!!

S.R. Nepal
- Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:40:32 (EDT)


I take issue with the quotes that our friend "blackfacts" supplied. Clearly Iskander pointed out that words Greeks sometimes used to describe Egyptians, such as "melas" and "melanochroes", should be translated as "dark-complected" (and not "black") in English, and this is proven by the fact that Homer described the Greek hero Odysseus (Ulysses) using the exact same words but many ancient portrayals exist to show Odysseus was neither black nor negro nor negroid. So if you replace the word "black" in blackfacts' quotes by the word "dark", the translations will be more accurate. The Greek writer Manilius clearly said the Egyptians had a "medium" skin tone and differentiated them from the black of Ethiopians. So that's what the Egyptians were, "medium-toned", just like they were portrayed themselves in their artwork relative to other peoples.

Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:33:05 (EDT)


In his book "The Destruction of Black Civilization," Chancellor Williams claimed that the original Sumerians were black. Unfortunately this book contained almost no footnotes, endnotes, or other source references. Until now, I have been unbale to find something that substantiates his statements. But Samuel Noah Kramer (who was Clark Research Professor Emeritus of Assyriology at the University of Pennsylvania and Curator Emeritus of the Tablet Collections at the University Museum, University of Pennsylvania.) proves (to my satisfaction) the Mr. Williams assertions were true.---------------- DISCLAIMER: The information to follow comes from a (supposedly) Christian website. I have not reviewed their theological material and I am IN NO WAY promoting this site from a religious standpoint. My SOLE purpose is to offer more proof that the original inhabitants of Sumeria were black. Some parts may seem racist, but look beyond it and see what the facts are really saying. BTW, for the neo-Nazis, Mr. Kramer is white and is in now way associated with the Afrocentric movement -------------- http://www.custance.org/noah/curse.html ------ APPENDIX-- WAS CANAAN A TRUE BLACK?-- The evidence now seems to indicate the presence in Mesopotamia, in very early times, of three distinct groups of people: the Sumerians, the Elamites, and a very small group referred to as Japhethites, known especially for the fairness of their skin. The two dominant groups were the Elamites, the first settlers who spread northwards, and the Sumerians in the south, who brought with them new civilizing influences leading to considerable cultural advance. The Table of Nations clearly indentifes the first settlers as the children of Elam, a son of Shem (Gen. 10:22). But there is no mention whatsoever of Sumerians. There is this note, however, that there was a "mighty one in the earth" named Nimrod, whose kingdom began in the land of Shinar. (Gen. 10: 8-11). Nimrod, whose name is found in Sumerian tradition, was the son of Cush, as son of Ham, and his uncle would be Canaan. No one has ever suggested, to my knowledge, that the Sumerians were Negroid - nor do any of the reconstructed "Sumerian Life and Times" series such as have appeared in the National Geographic Magazine, or Life, ever so portray them. Yet there is some evidence to suggest that they may have been black-skinned. According to Samuel Kramer they refer to themselves as "the blackheaded people." Actually the Sumerian original reads "head-of-black people," the symbol for head (SAG) being a cone-shaped hat hiding all but the neck of the wearer, thus: Hammurabi, in his famous Code of Laws, also refers to the natives of Mesopotamia as A-NA SALMAT GAGGADIM, i.e., "blackheaded ones." Such descriptive phrases are, I think, usually taken to mean merely "dark-haired." But it seems likely that 95% or more of all the people who made up the early Middle East cultures were black-haired, whether Semitic or Sumerian, and so this feature was hardly a distinguishing one. But the Semitic population according to A. H. Sayce distinguished themselves (with racial pride) from other peoples by their own light coloured skin, and claimed that Adam too was a white man. They considered themselves direct descendants. Yet they had black hair like the Sumerians and would not be different in this. They might therefore just as well have been termed "blackheaded people." But they apparently never were. Evidently, then, it would be no mark of distinction to refer to the hair colour, but it would definitely be such to refer to skin colour. And the Sumerians were apparently proud of their black skin. Gadd says they came to equate the term "black-headed people" with the idea of "men" as real people by contrast with other human beings who were not really men at all. It is further to be noted that the founders of the wonderful Indus Valley cultures were black-skinned, and not merely black-haired. The Rig Veda makes frequent reference to the fact that the conquering Aryans triumphed over these black and noseless (!) enemies. And there does seem to be some real connection, if not racial identity, between the Sumerians and these Indus Valley people. It may well be, therefore, that the phrase does really refer to skin colour. Furthermore, in the famous six-sided prism of Sennacherib, the king refers to the conquered Canaanites as "blackness of head people." From all this, it can be concluded with reasonable assurance that, genetically, Canaan could indeed have been a black child, the homozygous offspring of his mulatto parents, Ham and his wife.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:16:59 (EDT)


And since the mysterious Egyptian Iskander decided to throw up some Greek quotes...couldn't help but throw a few in myself. --------------------------------->>>>>> {"They (the Ethiopians) say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris having been the leader of the colony...And the larger part of the customs of the Egyptians are, they hold, Ethiopian..." (Diodorus Siculus, Book III. 2. 4-3. 3)} {"Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two." (?) (Aristotle, _Physiognomy_, 6)} {"Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy-legged? Is it because of that the body of itself creates, because of disturbance by heat, like loss of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations..." (Aristotle, _Problemata_ 909, 7)} {Lycinus (describing an Egyptian): 'this boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin...his hair worn in a plait shows that he is not a freeman.' Timolaus: 'but that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus. All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood...' (Lucian, _Navigations_, paras 2-3)} {Dialogue: "Aegyptos conquered the country of the black-footed ones and called it Egypt after himself" (Apollodorus, Book II, paras 3 and 4)} {Dialogue: Danaos (describing the Aegyptiads): 'I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics.' (Aeschylus, _The Suppliants_, vv. 719-20, 745)}

blackfacts
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 15:40:56 (EDT)


Sorry Iskander, if that is indeed your REAL name... :) But like genetic frequencies, craniometrics can have a high degree of variable interpretation. Here is another take on the classification of ancient Egyptian craniology. Clicking on the website at the bottom of the post will give you more information. And oh yes, here's an interesting peice of trivia. Anthropologist Morton in the early 1900s took crainiometric measurements and determined that blacks were supposedly of lesser intelligence. His theory has since been proven bogus though white supremacists love to bring it up from time to time. What is of interest is that for his white sample of skulls he used Nordic, blond haired, blue-eyed types (Sherry's master race...). For the black "negroid" types he used...yup you guessed it...ancient Egyptian skulls. And that's a blackfact. _________________________________________________________________________ James Harris and Edward Wente conducted an x-ray analysis of the New Kingdom royal mummies with the results published in their book X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). Included in the work were cephalograms of Pharaohs of the XVII-XX Dynasties and their queens. The angular measurements presented in tabular form in pp. 358-363 will be used here to compare the Pharaohs in craniofacial terms to tropical African types such as the Nubians. We will analyze all the data of the New Kingdom Pharaohs in terms of ANB (A point-nasion-basion) and SN - Mand. Pl. (sella-nasion/gonion-menton). Also, the three images available on Edward Wente's website, Who was Who among the Royal Mummies, will be analyzed in more details for their correspondence with Africans to the south. Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, "Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42). Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans. Studies have shown that persons of African descent tend to have greater projection of the alveolar region as compared to the lower mouth. The difference in projection measured as ANB (A point-nasion-B point) and research on persons of African descent has shown ranges from 5.5 to 4.3. In comparison with Caucasians, the values were from about 1.5 to 2 times greater (see Alexander et al., 1978; Downs,1948; Fonseca et al.,1978; Steiner, 1959). After studying all the data, particularly after analyzing the computerized ethcings, one can certainly see that the royal mummies displayed high frequencies of African traits shared with most Africans. Thus, the royal mummies display a strong southern affinity just like other ancient Egyptians of all classes studied by Cheikh Anta Diop, Larry Angel and Shomarqa Keita. See the links below for the tables of data and results, or click on the detailed analysis of the three images from Who was Who among the Royal Mummies. For diagrams and more see here: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9845/mummies.htm

blackfacts
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 15:29:39 (EDT)


Iskander, I believe that Blackfacts explained what I was saying better than I ever could. The genetics research is not in opposition to what we Afrocentrist were saying. The website, like many others (as you can see from Blackfacts posting), twisted the trueth. If you are using our current concept of race then the Egyptians, like the present day Nubians and Ethiopians, were black Africans. However, you can believe as you wish.

Mack Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 14:36:39 (EDT)


Before Sherry "Stormfront" white supremacist finds a way to pollute this as well...-------------> >Genes hint Africa's Khoisan world's oldest people > > By Emma Thomasson > > > CAPE TOWN, Sept 23 (Reuters) - Genetic studies of the Khoisan population of > southern Africa suggest the group could be the world's most ancient people, > > adding weight to the ``Out of Africa'' theory of human evolution, scientists > said on Thursday. > > "The Africans who were the earliest humans were likely to be more closely > related to modern Khoisan humans than any others,'' Professor Trefor Jenkins, > geneticist at the South African Institute for Medical Research, told Reuters > in an interview. > > Jenkins said changes in mitochondrial DNA showed that modern Khoisan people > have retained some of the genes of human ancestors from 100,000 to 120,000 > years ago while the genes of Eurasian people stretch back only 40,000 to > 60,000 years. > > Mitochondrial DNA is a genetic marker only inherited from the mother. > > Jenkins' colleague, Dr Himla Soodyall, said the discovery provided further > proof of the ``Out of Africa'' theory that modern humans evolved from a > common ancestor in Africa and spread across the world between 180,000 and > > 90,000 years ago. > > "What we have found is that some of the most ancient genetic signatures are > still carried in the genes of modern Khoisan people,'' she said. "The > hypothesis that seems to be the most favoured is that modern humans evolved > in Africa and a subset of these people left Africa to colonise the rest of > the world.'' > > KHOISAN ALL BUT WIPED OUT > > The Khoisan people are indigenous to southern Africa, but have been all but > wiped out as a distinct group after centuries of persecution by European > settlers and competition with other tribes who migrated south from central > Africa. > > A small number of Khoisan maintain their traditional hunter-gatherer > lifestyle on reserves. But the majority have been subsumed into South > Africa's mixed-race or coloured population and have lost their rich language > > and culture. > > Jenkins said his team was also studying part of the male ``Y'' chromosome > which showed that Khoisan people and some groups in Ethiopia and Sudan had a > more direct genetic relationship with non-human primates than other > populations on the continent. > > Geneticists estimate that human beings evolved from non-human primates five > to six million years ago and homo sapiens, the modern human being, evolved > between 750,000 and 100,000 years ago. > > "Racists will latch onto this to say it proves Africans are more primitive, > but what it shows is we are looking at modern people who are all descended > from a common ancestor who lived 100,000 to 120,000 years ago,'' Jenkins > said. > > Fossils of skeletons about 100,000 years old have been excavated in South > Africa. Scientists have also unearthed sets of fossilised footprints on the > > country's coast from the same period that appear to have been made by modern > humans. >

blackfacts
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 14:28:43 (EDT)


Brother /sister Blackfacts: You are absolutely correct, these white supremists just coincidentally popped up all at the same time and their writing is all similar. Very interesting indeed. Anyway, much of your writing seems to come from the book "No Color Lines". Have you read it? NOTE: This question is not directed to the neo nazi caucasoids! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:44:15 (EDT)


Here's a post from a physical anthropologist: This post belongs to P.K. Mansansula: Brace et al's views about the "trivial" nature of tropical variation is not supported by the evidence. The M-W team "expect" traits like "nasal elevation and elongation," from long-term residents of the East Horn of Africa, and attempt to prove their point by comparing Europeans with Somalis (who live in a dry environment albeit in the tropics). What they don't mention is that the Badari, early Naqada and Kerma series possess "blurred margin, platyrrhinism (broad nose), and alveolar prognathism," (Keita, 1990; also Morant 1925, Stoessiger 1927, Anderson 1968, Strouhal 1971, Chamla 1980) and so did the predominant element of the 1st Dynasty Abydos tombs (Keita 1992, 1993). This agrees with the characteristics of the modern Nubian and Sudanese population and also with the ancient Egyptian iconography. These characteristics, combined with the limb proportions, unjustifiably dismissed by Brace et al, confirm the views of Diop and Keita that the predynastic, early dynastic, Nubian and Sudanese populations are/were of relatively recent tropical African provenance. Egypt is not in tropical Africa, neither are Nubia or Sudan anymore tropical than Somalia. On p. 18, Brace et al state: "From the observation that 12,000 years was not a long enough period of time to produce any noticeable variation in pigment by latitude in the New World and tht 50,000 years has been barely long enough to produce the beginnings of gradation in Australia (Brace 1993a), one would have to argue that the inhabitants of the Upper Nile and the East Horn of Africa have been equatorial for many tens of thousands of years." This statement, of course, makes the assumption that these peoples were originally white and from the North! If Brace et al do believe in an African genesis of modern humans in tropical Africa (i.e., Ethiopia) why would there be an assumption that those of "the Upper Nile and the East Horn of Africa" would require adaptation rather than the lighter-skinned northern coastal peoples? Brace et al also mention a "circum-Mediterranean basin" in which they attempt to relate the peoples of the Northern Mediterranean with those of North Africa. This again contradicts all the evidence which show that the Maghreb, E, Sedment and other N. African series had great variation, to include tropical and "mulatto" forms that are rare, if found at all, in the N. Mediterranean. The evidence does not support a closer relationship between the northern coastal (Saharan) type with southern Europe than with populations immediately to the south, who shared the same trait of high variability. References Brace et al, "Clines and Clusters vs. "Race"" _Yearbook of Physical Anthropology_, vol. 36, 1993. Diop, C.A., "Historie primitive de l'Humanite: Evolution du monde Moir," Bulletin de l'Institut francaise d'Afrique Noire, 24, 449. 1962. Ruggeri-Giuffrida, V., "Were the pre-Dynastic Egyptians Lybian or Ethiopians?" _Man_ 32 1915. Ruggeri-Giuffrida, V., "A few notes on Neolithic Egyptians and the Ethiopians." _Man_, 55, 1916. Keita, S.O.Y., "Further Studies of Crania from Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania from First Dyansty Egyptian Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant Functions" _American Journal of Physical Anthropology_ 87:245-254, 1992. ____, "Studies of ancient crania from northern Africa," _American Journal of Physical Anthropology_, 83: 35-48, 1990. ____, "Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," _History in Africa_ 1993. Morant, S.G., "The predynastic Egyptian skulls from Badari and their racial affinities," IN G. Brunton (ed.) _Mostagedda and the Tasian Culture_ 1937. Robins, G. and Shute C. Predynastic Egyptian stature and physical proportions" _Journal of Human Evolution_ 4:313-324, 1986. Strouhal, E. "Une contribution a la question du caratere de la population prehitorique de la haute-Egypte" _Anthropolgie_, 6, 1968. ____, "Evidence of the early penetration of negroes into prehistoric Egypt," _Egyptian Journal of African History_, 12: 1-9, 1971. [continued] The Brace et al. article is all too alarming in that it appears in a peer-reviewed journal leveling charges of racism against a scholar who spent his life breaking down theories of racial superiority, and the practice of these theories in institutional racism. J.D. Walker states in "The Misrepresentation of Diop's Views," _Journal of Black Studies_, Vol.26, No. 1, Sept. 1995, 77-85: "The charge of racism is alway serious and is interesting in light of Brace et al. calling Rushton a "racialist," a term rarely seen in American writing or heard on American media, and therefore apt to be confusing. The charge that Diop was an inverted racist is countered by the fact, among others, that he was married to a "White" French woman. (Are there any Ku Klux Klan members married to Nigerians?). Diop was an internationalist who cited and had great respect for works of various European writers. He made it quite clear that culture, not "race," was his primary interest. Diop never said that "Blacks" were genetically superior, which would be racist, although such sentiments divorced from real power can only be judged morally and not from the economic, psychological, and physical damage that anti-Black racism has actually done. The road to Damascus is long. Diop's widow deserves an apology." (p.78) Brace et al., like Cavalli-Sforza and company, have attempted to replace the old phenotype concept with a new one of "clusters and clines." On the surface, these specialists are made out to be anti-racist as they belong to the "no-race" school. But a deeper examination shows that the "clusters and clines" they propose are often only a resurrection of older ideas of the "Great White Race." Cavalli-Sforza, for example, has tried to relate his genetic research to verify the Indo-European family proposed by Greenberg, and has even shown some inklings toward the more moderate Nostracists. Basically, these "no-race" scholars have been cementing the old concept of a linguistically, and now, genetically, related group of "Caucasoids" (although Brace sometimes avoids this term) speaking mostly Indo-European (IE). At the same time, the older typological language groups have been broken into numerous units, supposedly unrelated not only linguistically but also genetically. Cavalli-Sforza has tried to relate the North Africans to the Southern Europeans, and Brace et al. do the same: "The latter in turn show ties with the inhabitants of the circum-Mediterranean basin past and present." In fact, this is only a repetition of older theories of Seligman and others who followed the "Aryan Model" described by Bernal. The problem is, despite denying the existence of race according to phenotype, Brace et al. use a phenogram to show ancient Egyptians, Nubians, Somalis, etc., are not related to those in tropical Africa! They ignore the possibility of relationship despite variance (or with variability) as Walker points out regarding the stereotype concept of the "Negro": "...Negro, like Nordic, should be understood as denoting one ensemble of traits or anatomical trends in the numerous interconnected populations of Saharo-tropical Africa, or just Africa. The "Negro" physiognomy has no priveleged place in the pantheon of African human variation. It does not define African (see Gabel, 1996; Hiernaux, 1975). Brace et al. have a monotypic a priori definition of biological Africans." Brace et al. set out to prove what cannot be proven by the methods they use, according to their own stated beliefs. Differences in phenotype, by their own standards, cannot show that tropical Africans are unrelated in any way -- genetically, culturally, historically--from the peoples of Egypt and the Horn of Africa. Yet this is what they try and do. If they had understood Diop's model, they would know that all peoples are related, but that tropical Africans and Egyptians, Nubians, etc., are *coextensive* in a variety of ways. This is, of course largely supported by the geographic facts. The "Nilo-Hamitic" (Cushitic) languages spoken by Egyptians, Nubians, Sudanese, and among populations in Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, and as far south as Tanganyika. These peoples are coextensive with the Semitic speakers and Chadic speakers in a microlinguistic sense, but not at all with the people of southern Europe. Furthermore, the pyramid tombs found from Ethiopia to Egypt through the Sahara are only one point of correspondence between the AfroAsian cultures of Africa. The Nile River has also been a line of communication between cultures to the North and South, not only in the historical period, but in the prehistoric as well. While Brace et al. asserts the Africoid-like qualities in the Horn of Africa are due to climatic adaptation (by whites?!), they don't consider the possibility that cranial traits among the northern coastal peoples, as Keita calls them (Keita 1990, 1992, 1993) may also be variation from peoples related to tropical Africans. Walker points this out clearly: "For example, the M-W team explains the clustering of certain cranial series with ones from Europe as being the result of gene flow/migration from Europe without discussing the more likely explanation that the biological characters responsible for the similarity are the result of convergence or chance. This is Seligmanish and nonevolutionary." (p. 79) Indeed, this hearkens back to theories of the physical variability of "Caucasoids" as opposed to the static, fixed "Negroids," "Mongoloids," etc. The old "Dark White" theory proposed that whites could adapt dark skins, broad noses, thick lips, etc., while traits like narrow noses, thin lips, fair skins, etc., were evidence, even when found in isolation, of white intermixture or even white provenance! Yet in examining the ancient Egyptians, Brace et al. ignore the fact that the predynastic Egyptian, early dynastic and Nubian crania all show evidence of tropical adaptation such as broad noses and long, gracile limbs. Other traits they shared with typical tropical African types were alveolar prognathism and blurred nasal margin. (Keita 1992) Such traits have been widely acknowledged in non-Afrocentric works, albeit sometimes with the opprobrium that predynastic population were ruled by a "Caucasoid" ruling class. Indeed we are getting a clear picture of the importance the areas to the South may have played in forming the Egyptian civilization. Recent discoveries have revealed the first tool manufacturing society was located in Zaire. Remains showing similarity to some groups found in Nubia and South Egypt have been found at Gamble's Cave (Kenya) dating back to 11,000 ot 9,000 B.C.E. (Walker 1995) It was at this time that evidence of movement out of Africa into the Near East has been discovered, possibly connected to the spread of the Afro-Asiatic languages (Bar Yosef, 1987). The direct origin of Egyptian dynastic civilization has been traced to the Nubians, who are closer in phenotype to peoples of sub-Saharan Africa than anyone in Europe or even to northern coastal types. Clyde Ahmad Winters states: "The A-Group people were caled Steu "bowmen." The Steu had the same funeral customs, pottery, musical instruments, and related artifacts as did the Egyptians. Williams (1987, pp.173, 182) believes that the Qustul pharoahs are the Egyptian rulers referred to as the Red Crown rulers in ancient Egyptian documents. Williams (1987) gives six reasons why he believes that the Steu of Qustul founded Kemetic civilization: 1. direct progessin of royal complex designs from Qustul to Hierakonpolis to Abydos; 2. Egyptian objects in Naqada III a-b tombs; 3. no royal tombs in Lower and Upper Egypt; 4. pharoahic monuments that refer to conflict in Upper Egypt; 5. inscriptions ofthe ruler Pe-Hor that are older than Iry-Hor of Abydos; and 6. the 10 rulers of Qustul, 1 at Hierakonpolis, and 3 at Abydos corrspond to the "historical" kings of the late Naqada period. The findings of Williams support the findings of Diop (1991) because we also understand better now why the Egyptian term royalty etymologically means: (the man) who comes from the South=n y swt=who belongs to the South= who is a native of the South=the King of Lower Egypt, and has never meant just King; in other words king of Lower and Upper Egypt, King of all Egypt. (p.108)" References Bar Yosef, O. (1987) Pleistocene connexions between Africa and Southwest Asia. _African Archaeological Review_, 5, 29-38. Seligman, C.G., (1930) _The races of Africa_, Oxford. Winters, Clyde Ahmad (1994) Valid frame of reference, _Journal of Black Studies_, December 1994. (see previous posts for further references) [continued] Brace et al. and the 'Dark White' Theory The Brace et al. article (see previous posts) revives in a subtle, and sometimes not so subtle way the old 'Dark White' theory of Bernal's Aryan Model. The idea that modern humans in Africa were originally "Caucasoid" and that they evolved into "blacks," stems from the old Aryan Model, and it is the same argument used by the anti-Afrocentric side in the UNESCO conference on African history (See _UNESCO General History of Africa_ vol. II). Brace et al. suggest this scenario when they offer a time line for Somalis and other East Africans to "adapt" their skin pigment to the tropical African climate. The history of these ideas is based on a number of fallacies. One example is the classification of Neanderthals as primitive Caucasoids. This despite such non-Caucasoid traits as broad nose, prognathism and short squat stature. Indeed, the platyrrhine noses of Neanderthals suggest tropical adaptation according to the theories set forth by Brace et al. Such classifications were justified on false assumptions that Caucasoids were more highly variable than other races. In a similar fashion, the Austroloid type was also classified as a primitive Caucasoid (and still is by some), and was said to originate in the Mediterranean. However, as Prof. Diop points out in _Civilization or Barbarism_, new evidence shows the Austroloid type was most likely descended from Pithecanthropes of Java through Ngandong man of Java. Also, remains of this type have been found in Australia and Sri Lanka predating similar finds in the Mediterranean. But most important regarding the area around Egypt is the fact that modern humans first appear in Europe as tropically adapted with "super" tropical limb ratios (Trinkhaus, 1981). They do not become fully cold adapted until about the end of the mesolithic (Jacobs 1993). Brace et al. suggest substantial gene flow from Europe as far south as Somalia on a number of occassions: "...the presence of a palpable early German in Late Dynastic Egyptian cemetery exemplifies the contact that the delta region had with the world to the north and west. The contribution that such individuals surely made to the Lower Egyptian gene pool (Bowman, 1986) could well explain why both our dendograms and our discrimination function analysis suggest that the people of Lower Egypt at the end of Dynastic times had more in common with members of our European regional cluster than was true for the inhabitants of Upper Egypt 3,000 years earlier." (p.21-22) Not only do Brace et al.'s conclusions differ from earlier work by Keita and Hassan, the idea of such significant gene flow is contradicted by other studies. Limb ratios in northern Egypt, Late Stone Age Egypt and predynastic Egypt are all tropically adapted. There is no "northern port of entry" (Walker, 1995) where limb ratios alter due to gene flow from the north. What Brace et al. also ignore is the fact that most of the genetic variation leading to the types described are found in Africa *before* the presence of modern humans in Europe. In fact, examples of possible prototypes can be found in Kenya thousands of years before the predynastic period, and before any evidence of migration from Europe. They also ignore or trivialize the possibility that any similarities between people in N. Africa and Europe may be due to gene flow from South to North rather than vice a versa. Indeed the earliest migrations must have been in this direction as proven by the limb ratios of early modern humans in Europe. Even as late as Phoenician times, the flow seems to have been more South, or Southeast to North/Northwest. Some of the assertions of Brace et al. are simply ridiculous prima facie. For example, their attempt to show Somalis are closer to Europeans than West Africans. (pp. 17-20) Anyone who has seen the images on CNN, etc., from the American fiasco in Somalia will come to the unbiased conclusion that they are pulling our legs. One of the problems with Brace et al. seems to be their excessive reliance of outdated sources from the "Aryan" period: "Blumenbach, however, saw human form as grading without break from one region to another (Blumenbach, 1865). The continuum could be cut however one might choose to suit one's convenience. The Egyptians who displayed a mixture of "Hindoo" and "Ethiopian" characteristics were not therefore a mixture of separate "primordial" elements but just what would be expected to occur between one region to another. These expectations are precisely what we are defending in our present treatment..." (p.25) The truth is, though, in suggesting substanial gene flow from Europe, and even Germany, they did the exact opposite and betrayed their Aryan Model biases. References Hassan, F. (1988) The predynastic of Egypt. _Journal of World Prehistory_, 2, 135-185. Jacobs, K.H., (1993) Human postcranial variation in the Ukranian mesolithic-neolithic, _Current Anthropology_ 26(4), 512-514. Trinkhaus, E. (1981) Neanderthal limb proportions and cold adaptation, IN C.B. Stringer (ed.) _Aspects of human evolution_, (pp. 187-224), London: Taylor & Francis) Paul Kekai Manansala ---------------- Sir E.A. Budge "The prehistoric native of Egypt, both in the old and new Stone Ages, was African, and there is every reason for saying that the earliest settlers came from the South." "There are many things in the manners and customs and religions of the historic Egyptians that suggest the orignal home of their ancestors was in a country in the neighborhood of Uganda or Punt." (Sir E.A. Budge, _Egypt_) "The ancient Egyptians were Africans, and they spoke an African language, and the modern people of Eastern Sudan are Africans, and they speak African languages..." (Sir E.A. Budge, _Ancient Egyptian Hierogyphic Dictionary_) Basil Davidson "That the ancient Egyptians were Black (again, in any variant you may prefer)--or, as I myself think it is more useful to say, were African--is a belief which has been denied in Europe since about 1830, not before. It is a denial, in short, that belongs to the rise of modern European imperialism..." (Basil Davidson, reviewing Martin Bernal's _Black Athena_) ---------------- According to Keita (1993): "Paoli (1972) found dynastic mummies to have ABO frequencies most like those of the Northern Haratin, a group believed to be largely descended from the ancient Saharans." (p.140) Livingstone, in _Abnormal Hemaglobins in Human Populations_, discusses the Haratin in connection with high incidence of hemoglobin S and C in North Africa: "The Haratin, who are the Negroid population in the Saharan oases, are the former slaves of the Touareg and are primarily agriculturalists." (p. 83) Regarding the Nubians, D. L. Greene and Keita cite Greene, Ruffer and Berry in noting the fourth molar variants, third molar agenesis and in particular the rare sub-maxillary hypocone in suggesting the population stability of the Nile corridor over the period from the Mesolithic to the early historic These traits also show the close relationship between Egyptians and Nubians. The fourth molar variants are traits shared with sub-Saharan Africans.

blackfacts
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:27:37 (EDT)


How humorous. First we have Sherry, a white supremacist asserting ideas of white Nordic ancient Egyptians. Now we have an actual Egyptian claiming a non-African relation of the ancient Egyptians. Fascinating all these dissenters suddenly "appear" onto this site...all at the same time. Harmonic white convergence I presume? Ah well...let us go on. As for the idea of Mediterranean Egyptians and dark whites......-------------> Anthropologist G.A. Dorsey in Race and Civilization stated , "Races do not exist; classifications of mankind do."7 That is to say, the notion of race is one of invention: an attempt to understand the wide range of human variation. With this in mind it can be said then that the division of race is based heavily on man's bias. In the controversy regarding ancient Egypt's origins and predominant culture, the idea of racial classification and the dividing lines between these races is key. For those who do not accept the Semitic origins of ancient Egypt there is yet another racial category in which to place the ancient Egyptians: the Hamite. According to Webster's New World Dictionary a Hamite can be described as, "a member of any of several usually dark-skinned peoples of N and E Africa, including the Egyptians, Berbers, etc.8" To many this is a general description of a Black African. But to those who perpetuate this Hamitic hypothesis however this is not the case. Rather these Hamites fall conveniently into the category of Caucasian. In his work, Races of Africa, Dr. C.G. Seligman makes the following statement: "…the civilizations of Africa are the civilizations of the Hamites, its history the record of these peoples and their interaction with the two other African stocks, the Negro and the Bushman, whether this influence was exerted by highly civilized Egyptians or by such wider pastoralists as are represented at the present day Beja and Somali…The incoming Hamites were pastoral Europeans--- arriving wave after wave---better armed as well as quicker witted than the dark agricultural Negroes. 9" Aside from the obvious racism inherent in this statement, there is a confusing play on words. While Seligman links the "highly civilized Egyptians" with the Beja and Somali, he identifies them as Hamites who themselves are separated from "the Negro and the Bushman." In fact these Hamites, who may have reached as far as Somalia, are classified as "pastoral Europeans." A somewhat similar viewpoint is held by Dr. Donald Weidner in his work, A Short History of Africa South of the Sahara: "Caspian types also began to appear in western Kenya. They are known variously as Caspian people, early Cushites or early Hamites…These people, it is believed, migrated northeastward into Arabia and western Asia as well as northwestward into Egypt and North Africa. Recent scholars (notably Joseph H. Greenberg) have suggested that the term Cushite be applied to this parent of the Caucasian race, and that their basic language be Afroasiatic (formerly Hamitic)…Cushites who were developing Caucasian characteristics penetrated Egypt about 5,000 B.C." Though similar in theme, unlike Seligman, Weidner places these mysterious Hamites as originating in the heart of Africa itself, as far as Kenya., and migrating northward. But in accordance with Seligman he readily identifies them with Caucasians. Thus when these supposed Caucasian cranial traits were found to exist in certain Nile Valley populations, it was assumed that these Africans were either Caucasians or hybrids of Caucasians and Africans. In fact, as seen in the quotes of Seligman and Weidner, it was generally accepted that nearly all African populations had experienced some form of Caucasian admixture.11 These Hamites are also known as members of the Brown race, Mediterranean race, Eurafricans, dark-whites and other contradictory names. In her work, The Myth of the Mediterranean Race Dana Reynolds traces the origins of the Hamitic hypothesis. She begins with the following statement: "The anthropological concept of a Mediterranean Race or Mediterranean Type has long been used to denote long-headed gracile types of men anciently inhabiting the lands around the Mediterranean, and alleged by some of its more extreme proponents to be ancestral to modern Europeans and Caucasoid types in Asia and Africa. It is a concept that has been predicated upon erroneous idea, and sustained by fallacious notions of the processes involved in human biological evolution an morphological variation." Reynolds asserts in this passage that the concept of Hamites and the like are a fallacy. She attributes this pattern of thought to Orientalist theories regarding the origins of civilization in Europe, North Africa, and Southwest Asia. She begins with a discussion on Guiseppe Sergi, Professor of Anthropology in the University of Rome. It is Sergi she believes who first becomes one of the major proponents of the concept of a Mediterranean Race. Through the usage of craniometric data, Sergi classified the Mediterranean and Eurafrican into three separate subgroupings: the African Hamites, the true Mediterraneans such as Southern Italians, and the Nordic race.13 "In his examination of the Hamite, Sergi found his closest modern relative in East Africa, specifically the Horn of Africa. Reynolds makes the following critique of Sergi's findings: This so-called Hamite or Abyssinian man was immediately inducted by scholars into the saw no irony in portraying such phenotypically diverse people as the Ba-Himas of Uganda, long-headed Russians, Scandanavians, Italians, and Arabs, as representative of his superfamily of Eurafricans. Phenotypical characteristics like skin coloring and hair form were proclaimed 'external traits without diagnostic value' because they were 'subject to environmental influence.' At the same time, for Sergi, cranio-facial measurements were not viewed as subject to such influence." Reynolds attributes much of this erroneous interpretation of data to the fact that scholars believed the form of the human skull was a permanent racial character. Sir Grafton Elliot Smith was the next figure to whom Reynolds attributed the proliferation of the Mediterranean myth. A Professor of Anatomy at Cairo's Egyptian Museum in the early 1900s, Smith based his findings on his examination of a wide variety of human bodies belonging to predynastic and dynastic Egyptians. His findings revealed what he described as people having an effeminate and frail build, poorly developed eyebrows, small broad noses and slight prognathism.15 Of course it would seem with such words, to many, that Smith is describing an African type. But he classifies these people of predynastic and dynastic times as members of the Brown race and, according to Reynolds, vehemently "rejected the thought of a Negroid or Black affiliation of the type generally called Hamitic or Brown."16 Reynolds makes the following summary of Smith's findings: "Smith initially designated this type the Brown race on the basis of the coloring of the ancient Egyptian iconography and, secondly, because of what he considered to be the close osteological and cranial affinities with the mainly Cushitic-speaking peoples of East Africa, now called Bedja, Somali, Beni Amer, and Oroma (Galla) in Sudan, Ethiopia, and Eritrea" In this manner did Smith make the ancient Egyptians non-Africans, placing them in the Caucasian branch of humanity. Of the ancient Egyptians, modern Somali, Bedja and other East African types, he asserted there was only a minor Negroid element . Smith goes further in stating that careful examination of the body of West and Central Africans would reveal a profound gap separating the Negro not only from Egypt, but the rest of mankind. Reynolds takes note that Smith, "harshly criticized William Z. Ripley's 1899 work--- The Races of Europe--- for asserting that the entire ancient 'Mediterranean race' was descended from 'African Negroes.'" Carleton S. Coon is the next major advocate of the Mediterranean Race pointed out by Reynolds. Using craniometric analysis he describes this Mediterranean type as, "a man of short stature with a cranial index of 73-75, browridges and bone development weak, short face, variable nasal form, paedomorphic and sexually undifferentiated 'with a slight negroid tendency.'"20 It is this type he finds to predominate in early Egypt. Reynolds shows that Coon makes an even more grandoise claim of these Mediterranean types. She reveals the following about Coon's assertion of Mediterranean dominance: "Coon reported that excavations in Kenya and Tanganyika had uncovered the remains of a tall, extremely long-headed Mediterranean type with a tendency to great elongation and narrowness of face. Recognizing the morphometric similarities, with characteristic abandon, Coon pronounced the are of the late stone age sites in East Africa, such as Elmenteita and Naivash, ' a second southern periphery of the white racial stock: peripheral in this case to the world of the African Negro.' He speaks of the East African 'Hamite' as being 'without doubt derived from this Palaeolithic racial type.'" Thus Reynolds shows that Coon made Caucasians not only of the ancient Egyptians and modern East Africans, but early stone age African man as well. Reynolds points out that Coon is not alone in such thought. She documents another specialist in African prehistory, Sonia Cole, in describing the tall dolichocephalic peoples of Gamble's Cave, Naivasha, and Olduvai, as Caucasoids. It is this manner in which the Hamitic or Mediterranean African is separated from other Africans. And thus by populating Egypt with these Mediterranean-Hamitic types, the culture and people of the region can be designated as non-African. But along with Reynolds, there are a host of scholars who question the validity of this Hamitic hypothesis. Historian Cheikh Anta Diop makes the statement, "Coon's work contributes nothing new. If all the specimens of races and sub-races described by him lived in New York today, they would reside in Harlem." In his article The Racial Identity of Ancient Egyptian Populations Based on the Analysis of Physical Remains, Keith Crawford critiques Coon's findings. In an examination of Coon's Hamitic hypothesis, Crawford notes the following: "Coon (1965) displays a picture of a Shilluk man with Black skin, ulotrichous (wooly) hair and somewhat thickened lips. Under the photo of this unquestionably "Negroid" person is the caption "A Shilluk with European features…' To the lay person such a statement is most puzzling. Understand that Coon is referring to features of the cranial anatomy, erroneously thought to have resulted from Caucasoid admixture." In this passage Crawford reveals the inherent contradictions of Coon's Hamitic arguments. At the center of this debate is the notion of what many have referred to as the "true Negro." Diop borrows this term from anthropologists who use this racial classification to differentiate what they term to be Black Africans and Hamites. This "true Negro" has such characteristics as black skin, long arms and legs, tall stature, broad shoulders, narrow hips, black and kinky hair, doliocephalic cranium, considerable prognathism, a flat nose and thick often everted lips.25 This definition holds to the idea that Black Africans share one set morphology which is static and unchanging. Thus one can classify those who do not fit this description precisely enough as Hamites with Caucasian features. But Diop criticizes this monotypic classification of Black Africans in the following statement: "Anthropologists have invented the ingenious, convenient, fictional notion of the 'true Negro,' which allows them to consider , if need be, all the real Negroes on earth as fake Negroes, more or less approaching a kind of Platonic archetype, without ever attaining it. Thus African history is full of 'Negroids,' Hamites, semi-Hamites, Nilo-Hamitics, Ethiopoids, Sabaeans, even Caucasoids!…If the African anthropologist made a point of examining European races 'under the magnifying glass,' he would be able to multiply them ad infinitum by grouping physiognomies into races and sub-races as artificially as his European counterpart does with regard to Africa. He would, in turn, succeed in dissolving collective European reality into a fog of insignificant facts." Thus Diop holds that the rejection of the idea of the true Negro will do away with the notion of Hamites. Crawford states the following regarding this monotypic classification of Africans: "A critical point to understand when studying the racial makeup of Nile Valley populations is that the full diversity of Africoid variants was not often appreciated by the early anthropologists. What anthropologists called the 'Negro' identified only one form of Africoid variant common to the forest zone of West Africa…Other Africoid variants are important to our discussion of Nile Valley populations because their range of distribution overlaps or is in close vicinity with the Nile valley. Their physical traits were likely present in ancient Egyptian populations." Crawford's statements reveal one of the fundamental errors in the classification of racial types within Africa and the Nile Valley in particular. Crawford identifies several of these Africoid variants. Two of these he describes as the Elongated African variant and the Nilotic variant.28 He notes that, "the Elongated variant is distinguished by a generalized elongated body, narrow head, face and nose, dark skin and spiralled hair, thick but not everted lips."29 He identifies these Elongated types with the such groups as the West African-Saharan Fulani, the Great Lakes Region Tutsi and Hima, the Masai of Kenya, the Galla of Southern Ethiopia, Tigreans and Amharas from Ethiopia, Somalis and the Beja of Northern Sudan. Crawford cites Hiernaux as stressing, "there is evidence for the continued presence of Elongated traits since Pleistocene times, with no evidence of gene flow from populations outside of Africa…Elongated traits arose as an adaptation to dry heat." Crawford also cites Hiernaux in his description of the Nilotic variant who are described, in comparison to the Elongated variant, as taller, more narrow headed, lower and wider nosed, of slender build, long legs and little fat.31 These Nilotic types include the Nuer, Dinka, Shilluk and Anuak who occupy the Nile river basins in the southern Sudanese region.32 In conclusion of these observations Crawford makes the following statement: "The preceding discussion should make it clear that African populations display an entire spectrum of phenotypes including those attributed to being characteristic of other races. This must be the case since all races evolved from an African prototype and it was necessary that this type possess the potential to express multiple traits which could then be modified further by the environment. The so-called 'true Negro' does not even represent the majority of African types on the continent." This passage confirms Crawford's belief that African populations are "poly" rather than monotypic. In conclusion it can be said that past examinations of Nile Valley remains have yielded faulty conclusions due to erroneous stereotypes of African morphology. Numerous works have shown that Africans do not share one set morphology. Thus deviations of this stereotype are not inherently the products of admixture and thus to be classified as Hamitic, Mediterranean, Eurafrican or Caucasoid.

blackfacts
- Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:12:23 (EDT)


Brothers and sister (BLACK): I leave the attempts to educate the Sherry thing to my brothers like Mack. Actually it increases my knowledge of my people as I read their postings. I however, (not in the least criticism of brother Mack)) believe that youcannot argue with the insane. You cannot argue nor teach a savage barbaric racist neo nazi INBRED neanderthal. A SAVAGE IN A BUSINESS SUIT IS STILL A SAVAGE! Our knowledge of "SELF" is proliferating and the savages inbred savages are panic stricken. The Sherry thing has been busted as a neo nazi! This trailer trash white thing has made a fool of itself by trying to pass itself off as an Egyptologist! Why is there no evedence of civilization in Europe???????? The trailer trash never did answer the site moderators question! No white scholar has ever been able to answer .....Why not. Its because the whites were barbarians without a civilization living in caves and having sex with animals. The white Melanin deficient, calcified Pineal, inbred trailer trash coming to this site trying to influence what we as Black people think of ourselves are irrelevant! The only thing that matters is what we think of ourselves. In responce to being the first one to call the other a savage.....WHO CARES!!!!! First or last....the sub-human that calls itself the Sherry is a racist anti-Black savage! The truth told first or the truth told last ....IS STILL THE TRUTH! It is white and its opinion does not matter! I still believe it to be male! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 12:39:10 (EDT)


Heres some food for thought,Afrocentists say that Kemit(Kmt) mean land of the black people.It clearly does not the ancients always refered to themselves as "remetch en Kemit"(the people of Kemit).Of course if we are too believe Afrocentrics the people who lived in the desert of been red,the truth is of course they weren't,in fact the word desert comes from the ancient Egyptian word "deshret"(the red land). My friend below said Mr Saafis's websight was not in conflict with what Afrocentrics are saying, I think if he looked around the webpage properly I think he would that he is wrong. Here are some quotes from the anthropology and genetics section: Genetics of modern Egyptians: :Cavalli-Sforza et al.(1994)compared populations from throughtout the world using extensive genetic data. The North African populations grouped with West Euraisian (European,Middle East)populations rather than Sub-Saharan African populations(including Ethiopians). :Di Rienzo et al. (1994)studied the relationship of three samples (taken from Egyptians,Sardinians, and sub-Saharan Africans), using mitochodrial DNA and simple sequence repeats.In genetic terthe Egyptian sample was closer to the Sardinian than to the sub-Saharan African sample. :Hammer et al. (1997)used seen diferent methods to compute population trees of world populations, using Y-chromosome data.All seven methods grouped the Egyptians with the non-African populations rather than with the sub-Saharan Africans.Egyptians genetic profile resembles that of South Europeans more than any other regional groups in the study. :Poloni et al. (1997).Egyptians and a few other African populationa (Tunisians,Algerians, and even Ethiopeans)Showed a stronger similarity to non-Africans Mediterraneans Than to the remainder of Africans mostly from south the Sahara. :Bosch et al.(1997),using classical genetic marker, calculated Egyptians to be genetically very close to Mediterranean Asians Europeans. Genetics of Ancient Egyptians: :Borgognini-Tarli annd G. Paoli, 1982. The ABO blood type freguencies of ancient Egyptians showed no signs of differing significantly from that that of present-day Egyptians.According to the autors,"the blood-group distribution obtained for Asyut,Gebelen and Aswan necropoles shows resemblances with the present leucoderm population of Egypt and particulary with its more 'conservative' fraction (the Copts, MOURANT et al., 1976)." Test done on Ancient Egypian skulls: (for diagram follow the above link or go to http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html) One of the most common ways of assessing population relationships has been comparative analysis of the skull types. Such a study was carried out by the physical anthropologist C. Loring Brace and five co-reserchers who statistically analyzed a range of 24 cranial measurements from diverse world samples, includin ancient Egypians. The results of the analysis suggest that ancient Egyptian crania had with those from southwest Asia and Neolithic Europe, as well as North and Northeast Africa. However, the Egyptian skulls showed little similariy to African crania from the more distant south and west.The above plot shows, as accurately as is possible in two dimemsians, the relationships between craniofacial configurations of the various regional samples> The predynastic sample from upper Egypt lies very close to the West Eurasian group but shows some tendencies toword Northeast Africans(Nubians,Somalis);(on the chart Indians are actually much closer to Somalis and Nubians than the pre dynastic people of upper Egypt) this should not be surprising given Egypts geographical position at the crossroads of Africa ans Asia.The northern Egyptians deviate even more strongly from the tropical African pattern, and indeed thier closest relatives appear to be west Eurasians.Notice that the pooled group of Sub_Saharan Africans from southern, central and western regions of the continent does not resemble Egyptians at all: this group is plotted very distant from both ancient Egyptian Samples. More to come(dental evidence, hair evidence, more cranial,etc.)http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html Ancient Testimony: According to classical Greca-Roman authors, ancient Egyptian contempories had a "medium tone" and looked like northern Indians. The Ethiopians stain the world and depict a race of men steeped in darkness: less sunburnt are the natives of India: the land of Egypt, flooded by the the Nile, darkens bodies more mildly owing to the inundation of its fields; it is a country nearer to us and its moderate climate imparts a medium tone. -Manilius,Astronomica 4.724 Here the term Ethiopians(=Greek"burnt face", denoting very dark skin) refers to the inhabitantn south of Egypt and roughly corresponds to what early anthropologist would called "Negro."Although Ethiopians was a very broad term encompassing most Africans and sometimes part of southern Asia(Sri Lanka,Timor), the ancient Greco-Roman writers clearly distinguished the pre-Arab Egyptians from "Ethiopians". Philostratus wrote that thhe people living near the Nubian bordr were lighter than Ethiopians, and that Egyptians were in turn lighter than those people. There are cases of Greco-Roman authors likening Egyptians to northern Indians, who generally do not look like black Africans. The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as thhey are black to look on, and thier hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or wooly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the EGyptians physically. Strabo confirms in Geography 15.1.13, in almost identical wording: As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in colour, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the noth are like the Egyptians. Arrian and Strabo concur that the Egyptians resembled northern Indians --- who are usually straight haired and occasionally as light-skined southern Europeans --- rather than the darker Dravidian types of southern India.Furthermore, although Arrian and Strabo diffentiate Ethiopians from south Indians in terms of facial form and hair texture, they cite no such differences between the Egyptians and northern Indians. THe Herodotus quote repeatedly cited by Afrocentrists: In efforts to make the ancient Egyptian "black," Afro-Egyptocentrists have interpreted certain ancient Greco-roman quotes in a way that supports their own views.Perhaps the most frequently cited of these is a qoute by Herodotus describing Egyptians as well as as Colchians of Caucaus as "dark skinned and wooly-haired".Part of the misinterpretation of this quote stems from their interpreting the greek word melas and its numerous variants as "black" or "white".There are numerous examples of this usage in Greek literature --- one unequivocal example of this usage decribes a rather aged Odysseus magically regaining his youth(Homer Odyssey 16.172-176 With this, Athena tuoched him (Odysseus) with her golden wand.A well washed cloak and a tunic she first of all cast about his breast, and she increased his stature and his youthful bloom.Once more he grew dark of colour(melenchroies), and his cheaks filledout, and dark grew the beard abuot his chin. In decribing the skin tone of Odysseus, Homer uses the word melenchoies, which is a different spelling of the same word that Herodotus used to decribe the colour of the Egyptians. However it is clear from the above passage that Homer means "of swarthy complexion" rather than racially "black" and is meant to describe Odtsseus regaining his youthful colour. Otherwise we would have to assume that during the process of rejuvenation Odysseus became a black man!This despite the numerousancient artistic portrayals of Odsseus as Greek-looking and plainly not black.In fact if we interpreted other works the same literal way Afrocentrists interpret Herodotus and other writers, we would have to assume that Greek trees truly black-leaved(melamphullos),and that Greeks bled black blood(haima melan, etc). Herodottus decribing the hair of Egyptians as oulotriches(="wooly haired") seems to conflict with other writers such as as Strabo,Arrian and the unknown autor of Physiognomonica who mention only the Ethiopians and not the Egyptians as having wooly hair.At first sight it seems unclear whether Herodotus accurately described the whole Egyptian population or simply citing a stereotype reresenting the "extreme" Egyptian type relative to the Greek perspective (much like "the tall,blond blue eyed" stereotype of Swedes).Lukilly in this case we do not have to rely on Herodotus' description when there ids so much physical evidence available.Numerous mummies with still attached to the skuls show that straight ,wavy, or gently curled hair types were common in ancient Egypt.For an example , in a study (TItlbachova and Titlbach,1977) involing hair samples detailed microscopic investigation of hair samples taken from ancient Egyptian mummies, most were determined to have been naturally straight,wavy, of gently curled, with roundish cross-section typical of modern Eurasian and North African peoples.Only a small minority showed evidence of "negroid" structural charactoristics; even these "negroid" elements were weakly manifested.Nevertheless, in ancient as well as modern Egypt, the hair is on average curlier than that of Greeks --- an obsevation which probably accounts for Herodotus' stereotyping Egyptian hair as oulriches.But Herodotus mentions only "Etiopians" as having the "woolliest hair of all men"(Herodotus Histories 7.70.1) ---More to come. http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html

Iskander Wagdi
Tanta, Egypt - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 11:58:41 (EDT)


I didnt post the muslim/islamic sayings. Check the ip# on it, it wasnt me. Also, is this your scape-goat? Now...when you CANT answer the FACTS with FACTS...suddenly...your not going to post no more? HHmmm, I proved my point, and anyone can see that..all they have to do is scroll down, READ, and compare.Its very childish of you to spam the board by posting your same boring long message 3 times...grow up. Also, in response to your comment of the first one to call another "savage & barbaric" is thr one who is really "uncivilized"...well, again...scroll down, and you can "thank" your brother Turner from Compton, for being the first to show his true self...afterall, he said it first :o) I figured that once you and your people were confronted with the truth, first it would be name calling (which it was), then it would be Anger, (which it was) then the racist name calling would be used, and finally, you "gave-up" because I have confronted you with FACTS that you could not answer , because they are obviously undisputable. You were quite predictable...

Sherry
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 07:16:38 (EDT)


African leaders: 'Let us unite' OAU summit ends in agreement to speed pace toward One Africa by James Muhammad Editor Heads of State join Libya in celebrating 30 years of revolution Gadhafi calls for reparations for African slave trade SIRTE, Libya—In the face of mounting competition from global economic blocs and the threat of neo-colonialism, African leaders meeting here for the 4th Extraordinary Summit of the Organization of African Unity (OAU) determined that Africa would become the world’s largest economic and political bloc, and perhaps the leader of the next millennium. A record 43 heads of state answered the call of Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi for the urgent Sept. 8-9 sessions to discuss the pace at which Africa is moving in the face of such global challenges. Col. Gadhafi, following the example set by the great revolutionary and Ghanaian President Kwame Nkrumah, and others, specifically called for the establishment of a United States of Africa, with its own central bank, military and parliament. The extraordinary meeting culminated a 10-day celebration of the September 1st Revolution (The Great Al-Fatah Revolution). The colors of each African nation’s flag decorated cities throughout Libya, African dance troupes performed nightly on the central square in Tripoli and revolutionary slogans and photographs of African presidents draped walls and billboards. A massive parade Sept. 7 in Tripoli witnessed by nearly two dozen heads of state, Palestinian leader Yassar Arafat, Algerian revolutionary Ahmed Ben Bella, a Nation of Islam delegation led by Chief of Staff Leonard F. Muhammad, and others marked the official observation of the Revolution. The parade was delayed until Sept. 7 for the presidents’ arrival. Announced near midnight on their target date of 9-9-99, OAU Secretary General Salim Ahmed Salim told more than 100 journalists that the leaders had agreed to quicken the pace of unity. "As we prepare to enter the 21st century and cognizant of the challenges ... we emphasize the imperative need and high sense of urgency to rekindle the aspirations of our peoples for stronger unity, solidarity and cohesion in a larger community of peoples transcending cultural, ideological, ethnic and national differences. "It is our conviction that our Continental Organization needs to be revitalized in order to be able to play a more active role and continue to be relevant to the needs of our peoples and responsive to the demands of the prevailing circumstances," he said. The OAU determined it would: •Quicken the pace of implementing the 1991 Abuja Treaty which established an African Economic Community •Speed up the process of establishing all of the institutions provided in the Treaty—an African Central Bank, an African Monetary Union, an African Court of Justice and a Pan-African Parliament •Strengthen and consolidate existing regional economic communities •Mandate its Council of Ministers to ensure implementation of those decisions, particularly to prepare the legal text necessary in light of the existing Charter and the Abuja Treaty •Mandate OAU Chairman and Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika and South African President Thabo Mbeki to engage African creditors with the goal of securing the total cancellation of Africa’s debt. Mr. Salim said the OAU would establish the Pan-African Parliament by the year 2000 in order to provide a common platform for African peoples and grass roots organizations to be more involved in discussions and decision making on problems and challenges facing Africa. A return to Sirte The Council of Ministers should submit its report on implementation at the next meeting of the OAU scheduled for Lome, Togo, next year, he said, adding that December 2000 is the target date for ratification of the agreements. Then the OAU would return to Sirte in the year 2001 to adopt the document, he said. "This is a very, very serious milestone. Africa for a long time has been underestimated because we have not been united," Liberian President Charles Taylor told The Final Call shortly after the meeting as the heads of state hurried to their cars after long hours of debate and discussions. "The time for unity is now, the unity will be organized. We are moving toward a parliamentary situation, and then the problems of Africa ... can come into focus because we have decided that we are going to unite as a union." Ghana’s Deputy Foreign Minister Mohamed Ibn Chambass called the deliberations "very profound and very radical. We needed to be taking these steps (toward consolidating Africa) decades ago. We are happy that Africa has now realized we need to take our destiny into our own hands and catch up with the rest of the world." Throughout the summit meetings, Col. Gadhafi worked with a determination to reemphasize the need for unity. He dressed in his traditional Arab garments for the official meetings and dinners, but journalists and delegates alike were well aware of his focus on aligning himself closer to his African neighbors, particularly following their decision at an OAU summit in Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso, to defy the UN ban against flights into Libya. That move in 1998, observers feel, was a major dent in the wall of U.S.-led sanctions on Libya, whom the U.S. holds responsible for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. Col. Gadhafi had accused Arab leaders of the Middle East of not standing with him in the face of sanctions. "We’ve been waiting for this day with a particular eagerness," Col. Gadhafi said to foreign ministers Sept. 7, at a preliminary meeting in Tripoli prior to the official opening the summit. He said any union Africa determines must be comprehensive—economics, politics and culture. Mr. Gadhafi invoked the name of Mr. Nkrumah as the catalyst for the meeting. He also said that everything needed for a new charter already exists in the Abuja Treaty. The institutions were there, he said, but they were bodies without souls. "We want something considerable ... a new soul to bring life to these institutions and bodies," he said. The way forward While Africa is still a continent in crisis, all agreed that the mandate of the original OAU Charter—fighting colonialism—has been achieved. The focus now is to bring internal stability to member states—some of whom are involved in civil wars and rebel attacks against their governments—so that the countries can gain control of their mineral and human resources to strengthen their economies. The way forward must be deliberate, yet careful, most observed. In debating his point at the inception of the OAU Charter, Mr. Nkrumah argued that an African "continental union government" would have a two-house legislature: an upper house of two members from each state and a lower house based on the population of each state, with power to formulate a common foreign policy, common continental planning for economic and industrial development, a common currency, monetary zone and a central bank of issue and a common defense system with one military High Command, according to "Inside the OAU: Pan-Africanism in Practice" (1986) by C.O.C. Amate. "Since the conception of the OAU in ’63 we have been advocating unity and solidarity," said OAU spokesman Ibrahim Daggash. "We used it in the liberation struggle and we succeeded. Why don’t we use it in our economic struggle as well? "We have to refuse marginalization. In the new millennium there’s no place for small entities. It should be viable political and economic groupings," he said. "If we succeed in an intergrational process (in other areas), we’d succeed also in a common monetary unit. But we still have a long way to go," said Liberian Foreign Minister Monie Captan, referring to what has happened with the European Union. Among the special guests at the summit were Gamel Nkrumah, son of the late Kwame Nkrumah, and Roland Lumumba, son of the late Congo freedom fighter Patrice Lumumba. At the close of the Summit, after giving Revolution Awards to the heads of state present, Col. Gadhafi, in a symbolic uniting of the past, present and future, awarded both sons the Revolution Award. With a horde of photographers chasing them, Col. Gadhafi walked out of the hall hand-in-hand with Nkrumah and Lumumba. "My father would have been proud of Gadhafi today," the young Nkrumah told The Final Call in an interview. "I wish he could be around to see that somebody else has taken up his dream very seriously. It would have been a great day for him." Copyright © 1999 FCN Publishing " Pooling our resources and doing for self "

jahreal
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 03:14:03 (EDT)


(PART 2) (PART 1 BELOW THIS POST) >The Black List - http://www.theMarcusGarveyBBS.com > >Made a Chattel Slave: > African slaves' descendants have tended to look at U.S. Slavery > from a >monolithic if not narrow view. When we think of slavery, we are >essentially thinking of chattel slavery. Even, when we are thinking of >chattel slavery, we are actually referring to physical slavery, or we are >combining the two forms in one. As we have seen from the above, slavery >consisted of a series of illegal acts, all in International Law and >Natural Law. Since we are not parties by human mutuality to the U.S. >Constitution, at no point in Real Law or in Hard Law, do our Real Rights >come under U.S. Constitutional Law. All of the illegal acts committed >against us as explained above are International and Natural Law acts. >And as we shall see, nothing else to the present has occurred in Real Law >that has brought our Real Rights into U.S. Constitutional Law, since we >have been under One Continuous Act(s) of enslavement to the present via >unilateral White illegal acts to maintain U.S. Slavery under a myriad of >forms that still spell slave without self-determination and without our >true liberties as human beings. >Chattel refers to personal property as opposed to real property. Real >chattels, as opposed to personal chattels, are such as leasehold estates, >interests issuing out of, or annexed in real estate, such as chattel >interests as devolve after the manner of realty. Upon arrival onto a new >jurisdiction by force into a territory, we were made personal property to >be sold as contraband. Contraband is defined in Black's Law Dictionary, >6th edition p. 322 as, "…any property which is unlawful to produce or >possess." The illegality of our being sold as personal chattel property >contraband emerges out of International and Natural Law, a violation of >our Human Rights. We were made a thing to be sold, like a cow or pig, >without a nationality or identity other than as property; in short, an >animal or just a person (later 3/5 of a person). >After being sold and/or resold as personal chattel property contraband, >we were made Physical Slaves, working without pay and without >Reparations. The famous quote from Frederick Douglass, "As long as we are >not the direct beneficiaries of our labors, we are still slaves." >Douglass' statement carries a great deal of common sense weight, but >hundreds of years of subjugation and propagandization had made us Mental >Slaves based upon White illegal unilateral acts including forced >illiteracy. A Mental Slave has a great difficult understanding that >he/she is still a slave based upon Douglass' statement. Based upon our >unpaid wages and the continued profits from those unpaid wages, including >the profits from seized slave scientific inventions and innovations, the >wealth of America is our legal property. The U.S. Black/African slaves' >descendants population is currently working for money that previous labor >has already purchased. And, after being charged twice for the same wages, >we are spending money on goods and services that we legally already own. >By 1865, what noted Black social psychologist Amos S. Wilson calls "the >most successful human brainwashing enterprise in history," referring to >U.S. Slavery, we had become Automated Slaves, a slave who will behave as >a slave even without being seized. The 13th and 14th Amendments and The >Civil Rights Act of 1866 made us Legislated Slaves with a legal status >and so-called Civil Rights unilaterally determined by the U.S. Congress >and The U.S. Supreme Court. >The U.S. Congress in 1865 had the clear choice and opportunity to ask >slaves if we wanted to be U.S. Citizens, if we wanted to associate with >the U.S. Government, as were Whites asked on July 4, 1776. This would >have been treating us as human beings. But to treat us as human beings >would have also meant paying us Reparations, which the U.S. Congress >wanted to avoid at all cost. The decision was to make us so-called U.S. >Citizens without asking us. This also was a mammoth of a White propaganda >piece with regard to the International Relations of the U.S., as the >world thought that U.S. Slaves were being freed. How can your slave >become your citizen without self-determination? It can be done because >his/her status is still a slave; because the slave is still in slavery. >The 14th Amendment is quite didactic: > >Amendment XIV [1868] Section 1. "All persons born or naturalized in >the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens >of the United States and of the State wherein they reside…" > > Well, who in the heck are "all persons"? It must be clear that since >White People were already U.S. Citizens by human mutuality, not by >legislated Civil Rights in which they had no choice, The 14th Amendment >could not have been written for them. A discussion of White immigrants is >not germane. We are discussing U.S. Slavery, about U.S. Slaves. > >From the very definition of domicile of origin, a White person born in >the U.S. where his/her parents have domicile is clearly already an U.S. >Citizen. There would be no reason to restate this in an Amendment to the >U.S. Constitution. On the other hand, all African slaves by 1868 were >born in the U.S. as persons, indeed as 3/5 of a person. If we were >naturalized, where are our naturalization papers? >Slaves are captives. It is a slave who is a subject, brought by force >into a new jurisdiction into a territory and unilaterally made residents >in a State with The 14th Amendment, and made a Citizen who had no choice >in his/her Citizenship, i.e. a Legislated Slave. The Law is subject to >you if you are free, consent of the governed. Slaves are subjects to the >Law via forced jurisdictional association. The context in which the U.S. >Population is viewed from a legal standpoint, with regard to status or >standing, is set in Article 1, Section 3: > >"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several >States which may be included within this Union, according to their >respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole >number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of >Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other >Persons." > > It is clear from the above that "the whole number of free > Persons" makes >reference to free White People. Here is an admission that there are both >free Persons and subjects. But added to "the whole number of free >Persons" are White indentured servants. So, White indentured servants >were given their liberties in 1776 via U.S. Public Law to which they are >parties. Section 3 ends rather conspicuously, defining the remaining >population for taxation purposes, as "three fifths of all other Persons." >These are slaves, Africans. > Twenty-four hours prior to making The 14th Amendment law, the U.S. >Congress issued The Expatriation Act of 1868, by which anyone had the >right to expatriate from the U.S. to another jurisdiction. After 246 >years of U.S. Slavery, slaves had 24 hours to expatriate. Very few slaves >had any knowledge of The Expatriation Act of 1868. It was simply another >unilateral illegal act, just as The 13th and 14th Amendments and The >Civil Rights Act of 1866, forced upon slaves without our input, >violations of our Human Rights. >These unilateral White acts were secondly, a manner by which the issue of >Reparations for U.S. Slavery could be eclipsed at an high point in U.S. >and global abolitionism, by presenting the impression to the world >community that slaves had been freed. In legal reality, these unilateral >acts were part of a long strand of White continuous acts of enslavement >of the African. >Stripped of our social systems of mutual trust by U.S. Slavery and the >plantation caste system, U.S. Slaves today are the only ethnic group >without a social system that applies to ourselves. As such, we have no >economic system as do other ethnic groups have beneath the dominant >economic system, since an economic system cannot exist without a social >system of mutual trust among members of a Class. As the world's largest >slave liquid economy, we still have an economic value per head to White >People. > >MORE TO COME > >Contact Information: Attorney Dr. Robert L. Brock, P.O. Box 15288, >Washington, D.C. 20003. Website: http://www.directblackaction.com > >For a general overview of Black Reparations, visit: >http://ReadingDoctor.com/slavery.htm > >

jahreal
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 03:10:12 (EDT)


List - http://www.theMarcusGarveyBBS.com > >Dr. Brock Presents Proof That We Are Still U.S. Slaves in 1999 > >A report on the Atlanta September 1999 Black Reparations Conference >By Oscar L. Beard, Consultant in African Studies >Website: http://ReadingDoctor.com/slavery.htm >Brock Website at: http://www.directblackaction.com > >ªªª > > Attorney Dr. Robert L. Brock, Preseident of the Self Determination >Committee, began his comments on "Status of U.S. Slaves' Descendants in >Regards to Reparations and Self-Determination Under International Law" by >stating that the greatest obstacle to a clear explanation of our ongoing >legal status as U.S. Slaves is the popular belief by African slaves' >descendants that "We sold each other into slavery." The cardinal concern >of Black or African Reparations are those nations whose current economies >are built upon the backbone of African enslavement, including >corporations whose profits can be traced to the enslavement of Africans >and nations trading with the U.S. during chattel slavery. This would >exclude African individuals and nations, since both African individuals >and African nations came under the influence of European aggression and >were not benefactors of the African so-called Slave Trade though caught >up in it. To be sure, the African so-called Slave Trade was a >demand-driven market out of Europe and America, not a supply-driven >market out of Africa. >Furthermore, if there is any in-house cleaning that African slaves' >descendants need to do regarding Africans used as middle-men in the >capture of African slaves, middle-men who were frequently slaves >themselves, we will do so. Dr. Brock then proceeded to delineate the >unilateral acts, primary and original acts by which Africans continue to >be enslaved by Europeans and/or Whites in the U.S. > >In the European Mind: >An a priori act was the conception and intention in the mind of the >European to travel to Africa to capture bodies into slavery. There were >no African kings or queens in Europe when Europeans decided to invade >Africa for bodies. > >The Invasion of Africa: >Hence, the first unilateral act was the invasion of Africa by Europeans >in order to capture bodies, not gold, not land, but bodies for slavery. >We did not invite Europeans to Africa to capture bodies. They were/are >transgressors. The Portuguese attacked Africa in 1444, killing resisting >Africans, and capturing, seizing and illegally transporting other >Africans to Europe into slavery. There were no Africans among the >attackers or transgressors. With knowledge of their superior military >capability, the gun, the Europeans felt quite confident in attacking >unilaterally. This original act of aggression set the adaptive context by >which all further encounters between Europeans and Africans were to take >place. Trade denotes human mutuality within a context of free will >without force. >The primary act of force against Africans established fear as the news >traveled of the devastating military capability of the Whites. As such, >trade in the usual sense was forever made impossible. The conditions >under which the so-called trade was to be conducted were based upon the >use of an overwhelming deadly force, posturing the use of force and/or >the use of deception and high power intoxicants. These are facts that >African slaves' descendants need to face if we seek ever to rebuild our >social systems of mutual trust out of the spoils of U.S. Slavery. > >War of Enslavement: >African resistance to European aggression issued forth the War of >Enslavement, an undeclared war, bodies as weapons due to African >resistance; killing the resisting object of captivity, bodies. Add these >killings to the numbers of the Black Atrocity. The West African phase of >the African military resistance to European aggression is most >classically chronicled in Michael Crowder's West African Resistance, >Africana Publishing Corporation, New York, 1971. The fact of West African >military resistance to slavery, European imperialism and colonialism is >not well known. > >Capture and Seizure: >The third unilateral act of enslavement by Europeans was the capture and >seizure of Africans. Once captured there was a strong African >determination to escape physically (including suicide and continued >self-destructive behaviors). To capture the African was not sufficient. >The African had to be seized, yoked, chained and branded. Currently, the >African slaves' descendant in the U.S. is seized mentally. Capture and >then seizure securely brought the African under the control and dominion >of the European. Pregnant African women captured and seized were >considered a special catch, two slaves in one, and more to come through >rape and forced breeding. Hence, the unborn Black child in the U.S. of >African slaves' descendant also has a claim for African Reparations. > >Forcible Expatriation: >After capture and seizure we were detained and forcibly expatriated, >forcibly removed from our Common Law Jurisdiction (s) in Africa. We were >forced away from our legal African domicile(s) of origin. Black's Law >Dictionary, 6th Edition, defines domicile of origin as, "The home of the >parents…domicile of origin constitutes of an infant, and continues until >abandoned, or until the acquisition of a new domicile in a different >place." (p. 485) >Forced expatriation to a new territory (the U.S.) was not an acquisition. >It meant the loss of our African citizenship, language, culture and our >Natural and Human Rights. But we did not loose self-preservation, which >can still be exercised, via our real Rights in Natural Law and in >International Law. > >Illegal Transport: > The fifth unilateral act by Europeans was the illegal transport of >Africans across seas into Admiralty Law and International Law. >International waters begin three miles off shore. This is in violation of >our Human Rights in Natural Law and in International Law regardless of >whether from the perspective of European national laws slavery was >considered to be legal or illegal. It is illegal with respect to our >Human Rights. We never agreed to be transported or to be slaves. It is >astonishing how many African slaves' descendants believe that slavery was >legal. > >Arrival Into Another Jurisdiction By Force: > Brought onto land, into a territory, not into a county or a state or >colony as citizens or as immigrants. Where are our immigration papers? >Where are the papers our ancestors signed agreeing to be U.S. Citizens? >Our status as captives with a place, not a nationality, persons forced >away from our legal domicile of origin(s), Africa, which will remain our >legal domicile of origin until legally abandoned via human mutuality to >transfer jurisdiction to a new domicile, which we have not done. Without >domicile there is no legal jurisdiction, except, in our case forced >jurisdiction, which is illegal in International Law and in Natural Law. >Without jurisdiction, there is no proof of crime. > >Made a Chattel Slave in a Territory: (more to come soon) >_____________________________________________________

jahreal <jahreal1@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 03:04:59 (EDT)


To Sherry, I believe your questions have been answered. Egypt was black you don’t except it you can leave. I think the intelligent people here can see that you have lost this battle. Oh, and believe me your remarks about Africa was not getting me upset. I know I sparked something in you when I spoke of the Fall of Western Civilization, so much so you had to pretend to be Pro-Truth. Sherry, you wannabe Egyptologist, I am going to listen to Curtis’ advice. From henceforth, you will be ignored. As for Maskat, you are right about one thing. The premise was wrong because it was Muslims that begin the process of enslaving our people, the Europeans were just more evil. You posted quotes of ignorant, racist, close-minded Muslims who had no appreciation for a difference in culture. They, like the Europeans and your self, could not see that just because Africans didn’t behave in the manner with which they associated with being civilized did not mean that they weren’t civilized. And it is quite interesting because Islam, like Judaism and Christianity was highly influenced by African culture. Here’s and example " The most profound influences upon Islam by African religions can be seen in the goddesses of ancient Arabia. It is often disputed whether these deities are originally Arabian or African. As ancient Saba included what is today Ethiopia and southern Yemen, we shall designate these deities Afroasiatic just as the Semitic tongue is called. Long before Allah, Arabia was home to an Afoasiatic goddess called All'at. This goddess was popular all throughout Arabia and was worshipped by the Prophet's family himself. Another goddess was El'Ka'ba. Long before Mohammad, the jet black stone at Mecca was a holy site to the worshippers of El'Ka'ba who came to kneel at her symbol, a jet black stone. It should be again noted that as in the Hebrew Cabala, the Islamic Ka'ba refers to the two parts (Ka and Ba) of the Kemetan soul. Pictured here is the Islamic holy site of the Ka'ba attended by millions yearly. (Photo and Information courtesy of African Origins of Western Religions by Dr. Yosef-ben Jochannan and Man, God and Civilization by John G. Jackson)… Kitab Fakhr As-Sudan 'Ala Al-Bidan, "The Book of Glory of the Blacks over the Whites." Al-Jahiz in his work contended that even the Prophet Mohammad's father may have been of African lineage."============================= But any way here is some evidence of African civilization in your terms. "When they (European navigators) reached the Bay of Guinea and alighted at Vaida, the captains were astonished to find well-planned streets bordered for several leagues by two rows of trees; for days they traversed a countryside covered by magnificent fields, inhabited by men in colorful attire that they had woven themselves! More to the south, in the Kingdom of the Congo, a teeming crowd clad in silk and velvet, large States, well ordered down to the smallest detail, powerful rulers, prosperous industries. Civilized to the marrow of their bones...This flowering the European conquistadors destroyed as they advanced." Leo Frobenius, German ethnologist============================ "Under Sundiata and his immediate successors, Mali expanded rapidly west to the Atlantic Ocean, south deep into the forest, east beyond the Niger River, and north to the salt and copper mines of the Sahara. The city of Niani may have been the capital. At its height, Mali was a confederation of 3 independent, freely allied states (Mali, Mema, and Wagadou) and 12 garrisoned provinces. The most significant of the Mali kings was Mansa Musa(1312-1337) who expanded Mali influence over the large Niger city-states of Timbuctu, Gao, and Djenné. Mansa Musa was a devout Muslim who built magnificent mosques all throughout the Mali sphere of influence. In 1324 Mansa Musa made a pilgrimage to Mecca with an entourage of 60,000 people and 80 camels carrying more than two tons of gold to be distributed among the poor. Of the 12,000 servants 500 carried a staff of pure gold. It has been said that the gold markets of regions such as Egypt were ruined for months or years after Musa's visit through their respective kingdoms." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientmali.html).======================================== "At least by 1,000BC Ethiopia, Eritrea and what is southern Yemen were part of a large empire known as the Sabean Kingdoms. The connections of Ethiopia and Arabia should not be surprising as the distance between the East African horn and Southern Arabia is minimal. In fact recent linguistic study indicates that the Semitic languages of Arabia and the Middle East may well be a branch of a larger Ethiopian language group. It is also well known that this Eastern Horn-Arabian route was used for millennia by the earliest homonid migrants who later populated Asia. The people of Sabea were probably a mixture of East Africans and their Southern Arabian descendants who had long populated the region. Saba had a very matrifocal society with a host of female dieties. According to the Kebra Negast, a holy book of Ethiopia, it is said that Makedda herself created a dictate stating "only a woman can rule. Polyandry, the practice of taking more than one husband by a woman, and tracing one's kinship based upon matrilineal descent was common. The earliest known Arabian temple was at Marib (in Southern Yemen), capital of Saba, and was called Mahram Bilqus, "precincts of the Queen of Saba." The Arabs called this woman, Bilqus or Balkis; in Ethiopia, Makedda (also Magda, Maqda and Makera), meaning "Greatness." Years later, the Jewish historian Josephus, referred to her as "Nikaulis, Queen of Ethiopia." She is the celebrated Queen of Sheba of the Bible who is described as "black and comely." Located in a strategic location, Saba flourished as a trading community in goods from Asia as well as Africa. Even coffee drinkers trace the original cup to Ethiopia's Kefa region. Pictured above are the ruins of Marib, built between the 1st and 2nd Millennium BC. (Photo and Information Courtesy of Yemeni website and African Presence in Early Asia ed. by Ivan Van Sertima)"============================ "Located in the south central African nation of Zimbabwe are the ruins of monuments and cities built of stone. These ruins extend a radius of 100 to 200 miles, a diameter almost as great as the entire nation of France. Believed to have been built by southern Africans about 600-1,000 years ago, they are evidence of a thriving culture in the heart of Africa. Up until recent years, the ruins were believed by Western historians to be the remains of a "mysterious white race" in the heart of Africa. Great Zimbabwe has been ravaged by European treasure hunters and amateur archaeologists. Layer after layer of African artifacts were trashed in order to reach the bottom layer which, it was assumed, would prove that whites had exerted early influence in southern Africa. How many artifacts and important pieces of this ancient culture was lost is unknown. It is only in the last several of decades since Zimbabwe became independent in 1980 that archaeologists have begun to take a serious look at ruins of Great Zimbabwe and similar sites representing a dynamic social, economic and political culture in Southern Africa. Pictured above is the great walled enclosure of Great Zimbabwe. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC)"====================================== "Fueled by its economic vitality, the kingdom of Ghana rapidly expanded into an empire. It conquered local minor states, requiring tribute from these subordinate vassals. This tribute, however, was not the main form of Ghana's wealth. Ancient Ghana boasted a mixed economy of extensive agriculture, iron smelting, stonemasonry, carpentery, pottery, goldsmithing, and cloth manufacturing. A strong trade emerged in goods that passed from western Africa east to Egypt and the Middle East. This trade primarily involved gold, salt, copper,... Pictured above is a gold weight from the Akan people of Ghana. Evidene connects the Akan to the great Kingdom of Ghana. It is seen in names like Danso, shared by the Akans of present day Ghana and the Mandikas of Senegal and Gambia, who have strong links with the medieval kingdom. The matrilineal practice is also shared. The kingdom of Ghana never converted to Islam, even though northern Africa had been dominated by the faith since the eighth century. The Ghanaian court, however, allowed Muslims to settle in the cities and even encouraged Muslim specialists to help the royal court administer the government and advise on legal matters. Unlike the Ghanaians however, their northern neighbors the fervently converted to Islam. In 1076, calling themselves Almoravids, they declared a holy war, or jihad, against the state of Ghana. The Almoravids destroyed the kingdom, converting a great deal of northern Ghanians. After this however Ghana ceases to be a commercial or military power. For a brief time (1180-1230), the Soso people, who were strongly anti-Muslim, controlled a kingdom making up the southern portions of the Ghanaian empire, but the Almoravid conquest effectively halted the growth of kingdoms and empires in the Sahel for almost a century. It was to be Mali who would later pick up the legacy of the Sahelien states." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientghana.html).==== "Due to the enormous length of the Arab Slave Trade, from 700 to 1911AD, it is impossible to be certain of the numbers of Africans sold in this system. Estimates place the numbers somewhere around 14 million: at least 9.6 million African women and 4.4 African men." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html)=== It is very interesting to find that the most uncivilized and barbaric of people are the quickest to label someone uncivilized. My black people take pride in your history and in your culture and look towards building the future. Hotep.

Mack "DaNo1Narmer" Audena <WeWillRise@YourExpense>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 01:45:00 (EDT)


To Sherry, I believe your questions have been answered. Egypt was black you don’t except it you can leave. I think the intelligent people here can see that you have lost this battle. Oh, and believe me your remarks about Africa was not getting me upset. I know I sparked something in you when I spoke of the Fall of Western Civilization, so much so you had to pretend to be Pro-Truth. Sherry, you wannabe Egyptologist, I am going to listen to Curtis’ advice. From henceforth, you will be ignored. As for Maskat, you are right about one thing. The premise was wrong because it was Muslims that begin the process of enslaving our people, the Europeans were just more evil. You posted quotes of ignorant, racist, close-minded Muslims who had no appreciation for a difference in culture. They, like the Europeans and your self, could not see that just because Africans didn’t behave in the manner with which they associated with being civilized did not mean that they weren’t civilized. And it is quite interesting because Islam, like Judaism and Christianity was highly influenced by African culture. Here’s and example " The most profound influences upon Islam by African religions can be seen in the goddesses of ancient Arabia. It is often disputed whether these deities are originally Arabian or African. As ancient Saba included what is today Ethiopia and southern Yemen, we shall designate these deities Afroasiatic just as the Semitic tongue is called. Long before Allah, Arabia was home to an Afoasiatic goddess called All'at. This goddess was popular all throughout Arabia and was worshipped by the Prophet's family himself. Another goddess was El'Ka'ba. Long before Mohammad, the jet black stone at Mecca was a holy site to the worshippers of El'Ka'ba who came to kneel at her symbol, a jet black stone. It should be again noted that as in the Hebrew Cabala, the Islamic Ka'ba refers to the two parts (Ka and Ba) of the Kemetan soul. Pictured here is the Islamic holy site of the Ka'ba attended by millions yearly. (Photo and Information courtesy of African Origins of Western Religions by Dr. Yosef-ben Jochannan and Man, God and Civilization by John G. Jackson)… Kitab Fakhr As-Sudan 'Ala Al-Bidan, "The Book of Glory of the Blacks over the Whites." Al-Jahiz in his work contended that even the Prophet Mohammad's father may have been of African lineage." But any way here is some evidence of African civilization in your terms. "When they (European navigators) reached the Bay of Guinea and alighted at Vaida, the captains were astonished to find well-planned streets bordered for several leagues by two rows of trees; for days they traversed a countryside covered by magnificent fields, inhabited by men in colorful attire that they had woven themselves! More to the south, in the Kingdom of the Congo, a teeming crowd clad in silk and velvet, large States, well ordered down to the smallest detail, powerful rulers, prosperous industries. Civilized to the marrow of their bones...This flowering the European conquistadors destroyed as they advanced." Leo Frobenius, German ethnologist "Under Sundiata and his immediate successors, Mali expanded rapidly west to the Atlantic Ocean, south deep into the forest, east beyond the Niger River, and north to the salt and copper mines of the Sahara. The city of Niani may have been the capital. At its height, Mali was a confederation of 3 independent, freely allied states (Mali, Mema, and Wagadou) and 12 garrisoned provinces. The most significant of the Mali kings was Mansa Musa(1312-1337) who expanded Mali influence over the large Niger city-states of Timbuctu, Gao, and Djenné. Mansa Musa was a devout Muslim who built magnificent mosques all throughout the Mali sphere of influence. In 1324 Mansa Musa made a pilgrimage to Mecca with an entourage of 60,000 people and 80 camels carrying more than two tons of gold to be distributed among the poor. Of the 12,000 servants 500 carried a staff of pure gold. It has been said that the gold markets of regions such as Egypt were ruined for months or years after Musa's visit through their respective kingdoms." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientmali.html). "At least by 1,000BC Ethiopia, Eritrea and what is southern Yemen were part of a large empire known as the Sabean Kingdoms. The connections of Ethiopia and Arabia should not be surprising as the distance between the East African horn and Southern Arabia is minimal. In fact recent linguistic study indicates that the Semitic languages of Arabia and the Middle East may well be a branch of a larger Ethiopian language group. It is also well known that this Eastern Horn-Arabian route was used for millennia by the earliest homonid migrants who later populated Asia. The people of Sabea were probably a mixture of East Africans and their Southern Arabian descendants who had long populated the region. Saba had a very matrifocal society with a host of female dieties. According to the Kebra Negast, a holy book of Ethiopia, it is said that Makedda herself created a dictate stating "only a woman can rule." Polyandry, the practice of taking more than one husband by a woman, and tracing one's kinship based upon matrilineal descent was common. The earliest known Arabian temple was at Marib (in Southern Yemen), capital of Saba, and was called Mahram Bilqus, "precincts of the Queen of Saba." The Arabs called this woman, Bilqus or Balkis; in Ethiopia, Makedda (also Magda, Maqda and Makera), meaning "Greatness." Years later, the Jewish historian Josephus, referred to her as "Nikaulis, Queen of Ethiopia." She is the celebrated Queen of Sheba of the Bible who is described as "black and comely." Located in a strategic location, Saba flourished as a trading community in goods from Asia as well as Africa. Even coffee drinkers trace the original cup to Ethiopia's Kefa region. Pictured above are the ruins of Marib, built between the 1st and 2nd Millennium BC. (Photo and Information Courtesy of Yemeni website and African Presence in Early Asia ed. by Ivan Van Sertima)" "Located in the south central African nation of Zimbabwe are the ruins of monuments and cities built of stone. These ruins extend a radius of 100 to 200 miles, a diameter almost as great as the entire nation of France. Believed to have been built by southern Africans about 600-1,000 years ago, they are evidence of a thriving culture in the heart of Africa. Up until recent years, the ruins were believed by Western historians to be the remains of a "mysterious white race" in the heart of Africa. Great Zimbabwe has been ravaged by European treasure hunters and amateur archaeologists. Layer after layer of African artifacts were trashed in order to reach the bottom layer which, it was assumed, would prove that whites had exerted early influence in southern Africa. How many artifacts and important pieces of this ancient culture was lost is unknown. It is only in the last several of decades since Zimbabwe became independent in 1980 that archaeologists have begun to take a serious look at ruins of Great Zimbabwe and similar sites representing a dynamic social, economic and political culture in Southern Africa. Pictured above is the great walled enclosure of Great Zimbabwe. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC)" "Fueled by its economic vitality, the kingdom of Ghana rapidly expanded into an empire. It conquered local minor states, requiring tribute from these subordinate vassals. This tribute, however, was not the main form of Ghana's wealth. Ancient Ghana boasted a mixed economy of extensive agriculture, iron smelting, stonemasonry, carpentery, pottery, goldsmithing, and cloth manufacturing. A strong trade emerged in goods that passed from western Africa east to Egypt and the Middle East. This trade primarily involved gold, salt, copper,... Pictured above is a gold weight from the Akan people of Ghana. Evidene connects the Akan to the great Kingdom of Ghana. It is seen in names like Danso, shared by the Akans of present day Ghana and the Mandikas of Senegal and Gambia, who have strong links with the medieval kingdom. The matrilineal practice is also shared. The kingdom of Ghana never converted to Islam, even though northern Africa had been dominated by the faith since the eighth century. The Ghanaian court, however, allowed Muslims to settle in the cities and even encouraged Muslim specialists to help the royal court administer the government and advise on legal matters. Unlike the Ghanaians however, their northern neighbors the fervently converted to Islam. In 1076, calling themselves Almoravids, they declared a holy war, or jihad, against the state of Ghana. The Almoravids destroyed the kingdom, converting a great deal of northern Ghanians. After this however Ghana ceases to be a commercial or military power. For a brief time (1180-1230), the Soso people, who were strongly anti-Muslim, controlled a kingdom making up the southern portions of the Ghanaian empire, but the Almoravid conquest effectively halted the growth of kingdoms and empires in the Sahel for almost a century. It was to be Mali who would later pick up the legacy of the Sahelien states." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientghana.html). "Due to the enormous length of the Arab Slave Trade, from 700 to 1911AD, it is impossible to be certain of the numbers of Africans sold in this system. Estimates place the numbers somewhere around 14 million: at least 9.6 million African women and 4.4 African men." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html) It is very interesting to find that the most uncivilized and barbaric of people are the quickest to label someone uncivilized. My black people take pride in your history and in your culture and look towards building the future. Hotep.

Mack "DaNo1Narmer" Audena <WeWillRise@YourExpense>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 01:29:29 (EDT)


To Sherry, I believe your questions have been answered. Egypt was black you don’t except it you can leave. I think the intelligent people here can see that you have lost this battle. Oh, and believe me your remarks about Africa was not getting me upset. I know I sparked something in you when I spoke of the Fall of Western Civilization, so much so you had to pretend to be Pro-Truth. Sherry, you wannabe Egyptologist, I am going to listen to Curtis’ advice. From henceforth, you will be ignored. As for Maskat, you are right about one thing. The premise was wrong because it was Muslims that begin the process of enslaving our people, the Europeans were just more evil. You posted quotes of ignorant, racist, close-minded Muslims who had no appreciation for a difference in culture. They, like the Europeans and your self, could not see that just because Africans didn’t behave in the manner with which they associated with being civilized did not mean that they weren’t civilized. And it is quite interesting because Islam, like Judaism and Christianity was highly influenced by African culture. Here’s and example " The most profound influences upon Islam by African religions can be seen in the goddesses of ancient Arabia. It is often disputed whether these deities are originally Arabian or African. As ancient Saba included what is today Ethiopia and southern Yemen, we shall designate these deities Afroasiatic just as the Semitic tongue is called. Long before Allah, Arabia was home to an Afoasiatic goddess called All'at. This goddess was popular all throughout Arabia and was worshipped by the Prophet's family himself. Another goddess was El'Ka'ba. Long before Mohammad, the jet black stone at Mecca was a holy site to the worshippers of El'Ka'ba who came to kneel at her symbol, a jet black stone. It should be again noted that as in the Hebrew Cabala, the Islamic Ka'ba refers to the two parts (Ka and Ba) of the Kemetan soul. Pictured here is the Islamic holy site of the Ka'ba attended by millions yearly. (Photo and Information courtesy of African Origins of Western Religions by Dr. Yosef-ben Jochannan and Man, God and Civilization by John G. Jackson)… Kitab Fakhr As-Sudan 'Ala Al-Bidan, "The Book of Glory of the Blacks over the Whites." Al-Jahiz in his work contended that even the Prophet Mohammad's father may have been of African lineage." But any way here is some evidence of African civilization in your terms. "When they (European navigators) reached the Bay of Guinea and alighted at Vaida, the captains were astonished to find well-planned streets bordered for several leagues by two rows of trees; for days they traversed a countryside covered by magnificent fields, inhabited by men in colorful attire that they had woven themselves! More to the south, in the Kingdom of the Congo, a teeming crowd clad in silk and velvet, large States, well ordered down to the smallest detail, powerful rulers, prosperous industries. Civilized to the marrow of their bones...This flowering the European conquistadors destroyed as they advanced." Leo Frobenius, German ethnologist "Under Sundiata and his immediate successors, Mali expanded rapidly west to the Atlantic Ocean, south deep into the forest, east beyond the Niger River, and north to the salt and copper mines of the Sahara. The city of Niani may have been the capital. At its height, Mali was a confederation of 3 independent, freely allied states (Mali, Mema, and Wagadou) and 12 garrisoned provinces. The most significant of the Mali kings was Mansa Musa(1312-1337) who expanded Mali influence over the large Niger city-states of Timbuctu, Gao, and Djenné. Mansa Musa was a devout Muslim who built magnificent mosques all throughout the Mali sphere of influence. In 1324 Mansa Musa made a pilgrimage to Mecca with an entourage of 60,000 people and 80 camels carrying more than two tons of gold to be distributed among the poor. Of the 12,000 servants 500 carried a staff of pure gold. It has been said that the gold markets of regions such as Egypt were ruined for months or years after Musa's visit through their respective kingdoms." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientmali.html). "At least by 1,000BC Ethiopia, Eritrea and what is southern Yemen were part of a large empire known as the Sabean Kingdoms. The connections of Ethiopia and Arabia should not be surprising as the distance between the East African horn and Southern Arabia is minimal. In fact recent linguistic study indicates that the Semitic languages of Arabia and the Middle East may well be a branch of a larger Ethiopian language group. It is also well known that this Eastern Horn-Arabian route was used for millennia by the earliest homonid migrants who later populated Asia. The people of Sabea were probably a mixture of East Africans and their Southern Arabian descendants who had long populated the region. Saba had a very matrifocal society with a host of female dieties. According to the Kebra Negast, a holy book of Ethiopia, it is said that Makedda herself created a dictate stating "only a woman can rule." Polyandry, the practice of taking more than one husband by a woman, and tracing one's kinship based upon matrilineal descent was common. The earliest known Arabian temple was at Marib (in Southern Yemen), capital of Saba, and was called Mahram Bilqus, "precincts of the Queen of Saba." The Arabs called this woman, Bilqus or Balkis; in Ethiopia, Makedda (also Magda, Maqda and Makera), meaning "Greatness." Years later, the Jewish historian Josephus, referred to her as "Nikaulis, Queen of Ethiopia." She is the celebrated Queen of Sheba of the Bible who is described as "black and comely." Located in a strategic location, Saba flourished as a trading community in goods from Asia as well as Africa. Even coffee drinkers trace the original cup to Ethiopia's Kefa region. Pictured above are the ruins of Marib, built between the 1st and 2nd Millennium BC. (Photo and Information Courtesy of Yemeni website and African Presence in Early Asia ed. by Ivan Van Sertima)" "Located in the south central African nation of Zimbabwe are the ruins of monuments and cities built of stone. These ruins extend a radius of 100 to 200 miles, a diameter almost as great as the entire nation of France. Believed to have been built by southern Africans about 600-1,000 years ago, they are evidence of a thriving culture in the heart of Africa. Up until recent years, the ruins were believed by Western historians to be the remains of a "mysterious white race" in the heart of Africa. Great Zimbabwe has been ravaged by European treasure hunters and amateur archaeologists. Layer after layer of African artifacts were trashed in order to reach the bottom layer which, it was assumed, would prove that whites had exerted early influence in southern Africa. How many artifacts and important pieces of this ancient culture was lost is unknown. It is only in the last several of decades since Zimbabwe became independent in 1980 that archaeologists have begun to take a serious look at ruins of Great Zimbabwe and similar sites representing a dynamic social, economic and political culture in Southern Africa. Pictured above is the great walled enclosure of Great Zimbabwe. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC)" "Fueled by its economic vitality, the kingdom of Ghana rapidly expanded into an empire. It conquered local minor states, requiring tribute from these subordinate vassals. This tribute, however, was not the main form of Ghana's wealth. Ancient Ghana boasted a mixed economy of extensive agriculture, iron smelting, stonemasonry, carpentery, pottery, goldsmithing, and cloth manufacturing. A strong trade emerged in goods that passed from western Africa east to Egypt and the Middle East. This trade primarily involved gold, salt, copper, and even war captives to be sold as slaves. Pictured above is a gold weight from the Akan people of Ghana. Evidene connects the Akan to the great Kingdom of Ghana. It is seen in names like Danso, shared by the Akans of present day Ghana and the Mandikas of Senegal and Gambia, who have strong links with the medieval kingdom. The matrilineal practice is also shared. The kingdom of Ghana never converted to Islam, even though northern Africa had been dominated by the faith since the eighth century. The Ghanaian court, however, allowed Muslims to settle in the cities and even encouraged Muslim specialists to help the royal court administer the government and advise on legal matters. Unlike the Ghanaians however, their northern neighbors the fervently converted to Islam. In 1076, calling themselves Almoravids, they declared a holy war, or jihad, against the state of Ghana. The Almoravids destroyed the kingdom, converting a great deal of northern Ghanians. After this however Ghana ceases to be a commercial or military power. For a brief time (1180-1230), the Soso people, who were strongly anti-Muslim, controlled a kingdom making up the southern portions of the Ghanaian empire, but the Almoravid conquest effectively halted the growth of kingdoms and empires in the Sahel for almost a century. It was to be Mali who would later pick up the legacy of the Sahelien states." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientghana.html). "Due to the enormous length of the Arab Slave Trade, from 700 to 1911AD, it is impossible to be certain of the numbers of Africans sold in this system. Estimates place the numbers somewhere around 14 million: at least 9.6 million African women and 4.4 African men." (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html) It is very interesting to find that the most uncivilized and barbaric of people are the quickest to label someone uncivilized. My black people take pride in your history and in your culture and look towards building the future. Hotep.

Mack "DaNo1Narmer" Audena <WeWillRise@YourExpense>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 01:24:49 (EDT)


This comment is directed to the poster who believes Walter Rodney's premise about "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa". The truth is that the black countries were underdeveloped well before the advent of European colonialism. Below I have included many racist and disdainful writings from medieval Islamic writings about blacks (Zanj). The Islamic scholars' intense level of contempt for the barbarism of black cultures, as well as a belief in an inferior black intellect, suggests that the level of civilization in most black countries was extremely primitive even before Europe entered the picture. It's a far cry from "ruling the world." ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Of the neighbors of the Bujja, Maqdisi had heard that "there is no marriage among them; the child does not know his father, and they eat people -- but God knows best. As for the Zanj, they are people of black color, flat noses, kinky hair, and little understanding or intelligence." - Maqdisi (fl. 966 AD), _Kitab al-Bad'_, vol.4 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "We know that the Zanj are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions." - Jahiz (d. 868 AD), _Kitab al-Bukhala'_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament." - Jahiz, _Kitab al-Hayawan_, vol. 2 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at all times -- even the Zanj, despite their dimness, their boundless stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil dispositions, make long speeches." - Jahiz, _Al-Bayan wa`l-tabyin_, vol. 3 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "[inhabitants of sub-Saharan African countries] are people distant from the standards of humanity" "Their nature is that of wild animals...." - from the Persian geography _Hudud al-`alam_, 982 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "The Zanj are slight-witted (_kam 'aql_), and God, most high, has created them stupid, ignorant, and foul (_palid_)." from anonymous _Iskandarnamah_, 1343 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "Galen says that merriment dominates the black man because of his defective brain, whence also the weakness of his intelligence." - Mas`udi (d. 956 AD), _Muruj al-dhahab_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "As regards southern countries, all their inhabitants are black on account of the heat of their climate. Most of them go naked. In all their lands and provinces, gold is found. They are people distant from the standards of humanity." - Persian geography _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** About the Zanj: "Their nature is that of wild animals. They are extremely black." About the Sudan: "Among themselves there are people who steal each other's children and sell them to the merchants when the latter arrive." - _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "The Zanj are so uncivilized that they have no notion of a natural death. If a man dies a natural death, they think he was poisoned. Every death is suspicious with them, if a man has not been killed by a weapon." - Abu Rayhan al-Biruni, _India_, 1030 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "If (all types of men) are taken, from the first, and one placed after another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the Southern-most countries, the Negro does not differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth,--in no other peculiarity or property,--except for what God wished. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent." - Philosopher-theologian Nasir al-Din Tusi (1201-74), _Tasawwurat_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated." - Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_, 14th century AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "beyond [known peoples of black West Africa] to the south there is no civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings. They live in thickets and caves, and eat herbs and unprepared grain. They frequently eat each other. They cannot be considered human beings." - Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "A man of discernment said: The people of Iraq ... do not come out with something between blonde, buff, blanched, and leprous coloring, such as the infants dropped from the wombs of the women of the Slavs and others of similar light complexion; nor are they overdone in the womb until they are burned, so that the child comes out something between black, murky, malodorous, stinking, and crinkly-haired, with uneven limbs, deficient minds, and depraved passions, such as the Zanj, the Ethiopians, and other blacks who resemble them. The Iraqis are neither half-baked dough nor burned crust but between the two." - Ibn al-Faqih al-Hamadani, _Mukhtasar Kitab al-Buldan_, 903 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "[Blacks] are ugly and misshapen, because they live in a hot country." - Ibn Qutayba (828-89 A.D.) ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes 'lack of knowledge and defective minds' to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their kings only acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of learned visitors from farther north." - BernardLewis, _Race and Slavery in the Middle East_, 1990 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** "In both Arab and Iranian Islamic writings, blacks are accused of being stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry, and easily affected by food and drink." - Minoo Southgate, "Negative Images of Blacks in Some Medieval Iranian Writings," Iranian Studies 17 (1984): p.10

Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 01:10:06 (EDT)


Okay, now you say it doesnt matter when the bust of Narmer was made? Well, your wrong. It does matter that his bust was made during the 25th dynasty, which was 2300 years after Narmer had reigned. The egyptians of the 25th dynasty wouldnt have the slightest clue as to what the real Narmer looked like. There is only one, Ill repeat, only ONE other image of Narmer, and it is VERY clear for all that have eyes to see...that he looks nothing like what the bust made from the 25th dynasty portrays him to be. The only image of Narmer from Narmers TIME of reign, depicts the closest to what he really looked like...and if you ever get a chance to see it..he CLEARLY had no negroid traits that you would like to make him to have. THE INSCRIPTION OF UNI: Well, it seems awefully funny that all of a sudden Breadsted was a "racist egyptologist", and all of his other discoveries were valued in this site, yet all of a sudden he misinterpreted things, and is racist... Breadsted was (he is no longer living) the PROFESSOR OF EGYPTOLOGY AND ORIENTAL STUDIES @THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO. I dont know if it was you or one of your people, but one of you linked that website from this page to post facts from, yet when I brought to your attention the insc. uni, all of a sudden it was a mistake and racist.. Its funny how its not racist when you use the SAME EXACT SITE, yet when I posted it for information...suddenly it was from a racist site, and racist egyptologist. You and your people have not only contridicted yourselfs, but you have also made hypocritical statements and accusations. So, if you think Im lying...SCROLL down this page and re-read very carefully...you will see, Im probably the most HONEST one here. To turner: I will not even answer you again...except to let you know...you havent "hurt" my feelings..and if you keep all of that anger inside of you, you will never be a true happy person, at peace with yourself. In regards to the slavery thing..I posted back FACTS in regards to slavery...after someone here threw it up in my face. White-aryan people have done more to help and benefit your people than this so called slavery could ever touch. So, in the future, attacking me with slavery, savage devil, etc etc...is only acting inmature, and taking many from this board off of the true topic here..the race of the ancient egyptians. Again...you may have posted back..but you posted with accusations and opinions...like for example the bust of narmer...you didnt answer me back with FACTS..your quote opinion was "it doesnt matter" Next time post back with fatcs..and intelligence, not hypocritical statements. In truth, Sherry

sherry
USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 23:09:11 (EDT)


Okay..lets get this straight..all of a sudden the bust of Narmer, made during the 25th dynasty , some 2300 years AFTER the real Narmer had reigned...doesnt matter? I hate to bust your bubble, but it does matter. It matters a lot. So, thats one FACT, you were unable to dispute. Next, THE INSCRIPTION OF UNI: all of a sudden Breadsted is a "racist egyptologist?And all of a sudden , he misinterpreted those writings..yet he didnt misinterpret anything else? " But, it was okay for you and your people to take information from the University of Chicago egyptology and oriental study institues web site, which is the SAME site and university that Breadsted was a professor of egyptology studies from. But now, in your words..he is a racist. Yet, another contridiction and hypocritical statement made by you and your people. You still havent disproved anything..instead you answered again, with your PERSONAL OPINIONS..BY SAYING..THAT DOESNT MATTER..OR INSTEAD OF SEEING THE TRUTH FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS...YOU HAVE PASSED IT OFF AS RACIST...EVEN THOUGH YOU USED THE SAME EXACT SITE FOR YOUR INFORMATION. HHmmm, you have contridicted yourself once again. What about the ancient egyptian love letters? I also seen a link to that site from one of your people...did you bother to read any of the poems? Its almost funny, in the sense that one of your people left a link there, and yet it talked of a man in love with this woman from egypt saying that her "SKIN IS FAIR, AND HER BREAST IS WHITE"...you must feel like such a fool about now. I never said ethiopians were not black. That is more than obvious. If it is true that you know an ethiopian with red or blonde hair..its either one of these three reasons: 1. it may be a hair weave 2. it may be that he/she died their hair 3. it may be that he/she is of mixed blood..somewhere down the line.Even so, if it is a scientific fact that they have red or blonde hair...the texture of their hair is not and cannot be SOFT, AND FLOWING like that of a caucasion. Negros hair...be it red, blonde, or what have you..is course, hard in texture, or the infamous "dreadlock" look...which can be long, but still course, and hard in texture. Dead..alive..what have you...the difference is definately indistinguishable. Scientific tests have proven the texture of the blonde hair on those mummies...they were not ethiopian...and they were not "black". I also brought up slavery here, because one of your people "threw slavery " in my face. So I felt it was neccesary, to state the facts of slavery as well...and all that the truth did in regards to slavery was make tempers flair again...because for years you and your people have been blaming white-aryan people...for something that the MAJORITY of white aryan people did not do, and did not have any control over. Sudan was named "the land of the blacks", by the ancient egyptians..whether you like it or not.As much as you try to dispute it..the only fools who will fall for your lies are your people, because you prey on their weaknesses...and try to lead them in a false direction, but make it sound as though this is some kind of hope...and heritage they have missed out on. You make no sense. Yes, blacks had a place in ancient egyptian history..as slaves, and throughout the years when race mixing became more and more dominant, egyptian rule fell...and has never been lifted back up again. You can easily see blacks in bondage in egyptian art...along with their writings...even within the tombs within the walls of the pyramids...its there...to refuse it and to deny it...only a blindman could do that. The post exactly below mine should add some light to your Islam. I see what it is...you and your people feel so rejected by all societies, that you try to cleave onto anything that will boost your self-worth..first it was the Islam thing..now I guess that didnt help, so your srtuggling with the Egypt thing. Now to Turner..No, I dont live in a "trailer", and I am not a devil...like you so wish me to be. I tell the REAL truth, and you cant handle it...you dont know how to deal with it other than to get mad...and post absurd profanities...just thought I'd let you know...you havent "hurt" my feelings. **Also...I do not have any misconceptions of what "africa" is today and has been for thousands of years. Have you ever been to africa mack? Evidentaly you havent , since you have denied most all of the facts I stated about africa. Also..to turner..again...Are you saying that if white europeans would leave africa alone , your people would be able to sustain themselves? Wrong. Before ANY so called invasion..or what have you, it was the same famished, diseased, violent , poor country that it has always been. So, your feelings of hatred towards me or all white people are surely directed in the wrong area. Also, if you are doubting that white-aryan people have done MORE to help and benefit not only you and your people, but your homeland...you are wrong. You need to seriously wake up and smell the coffee..matter of fact...mostly all of you do.

Sherry
USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:47:09 (EDT)


Of course ancient Egyptians were Black, this is really an indisputable fact. So let's move on to another more important topic. Who are the real Jews? In the article that prefaced my comment it was stated that Ham is the father of the Black races. First of all it is impossible to categorize people by skin color. If I have a dog and a cat that are both black does that make them the same species? Of course not. So are all dark skinned people the same just because of their skin color. The answer is no. But this is the racist propaganda that we have been taught. The bible clearly states in several places that the Jews are black. Job states that he is black. So does Solomon. Revelations 1 gives a description of Christ as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool. The bible also says that all of Isreal (the name given to Jacob the son of Abraham)is reckoned by geneology, meaning that you can not convert to being a Jew. It is determined by birth. Deut. 28:68 also states that the Jews would be taken on ships and sold into slavery. This was prophesized after the first captivity in Egypt(A greek name meaning bondage. The original name of Egypt is Mizarim after one of the sons of Ham). Have the white people calling themselves Jews ever been taken into bondage on ships? Or why isn't their skin dark like the Bible says it is and will always be? The true Jews don't even know who they are because they have been told that they are Black or African American, or Indians or Mexican or any other name given to people of so-called Negroid or Indian descent. In a book titled From Babylon to Timbuktu the arthur Ruldolph Windsor recounts how the Jews fled into Africa in 70AD to hid among other dark skinned people when the Romans invaded Isreal. They lived there as refugees for about 1200 years before being sold into slavery during the triangular slave trade. The three parties who took part in the trade were the Arabs, the white man, and the Africans. Black people are not of African descent. Africans are descendents of Ham. Black people are descendents of Shem. I know this may sound crazy, but it's true and it explains the condition of the real Jews today. I encourage everyone to do their research and find out who they really are. The truth of who the true Jews are is the one truth upon which all the lies that control the world are built. Shalom!

Sarai Yahawa <joandmrc@hotmail.com>
los angeles, ca USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:40:47 (EDT)


Of course ancient Egyptians were Black, this is really an indisputable fact. So let's move on to another more important topic. Who are the real Jews? In the article that prefaced my comment it was stated that Ham is the father of the Black races. First of all it is impossible to categorize people by skin color. If I have a dog and a cat that are both black does that make them the same species? Of course not. So are all dark skinned people the same just because of their skin color. The answer is no. But this is the racist propaganda that we have been taught. The bible clearly states in several places that the Jews are black. Job states that he is black. So does Solomon. Revelations 1 gives a description of Christ as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool. The bible also says that all of Isreal (the name given to Jacob the son of Abraham)is reckoned by geneology, meaning that you can not convert to being a Jew. It is determined by birth. Deut. 28:68 also states that the Jews would be taken on ships and sold into slavery. This was prophesized after the first captivity in Egypt(A greek name meaning bondage. The original name of Egypt is Mizarim after one of the sons of Ham). Have the white people calling themselves Jews ever been taken into bondage on ships? Or why isn't their skin dark like the Bible says it is and will always be? The true Jews don't even know who they are because they have been told that they are Black or African American, or Indians or Mexican or any other name given to people of so-called Negroid or Indian descent. In a book titled From Babylon to Timbuktu the arthur Ruldolph Windsor recounts how the Jews fled into Africa in 70AD to hid among other dark skinned people when the Romans invaded Isreal. They lived there as refugees for about 1200 years before being sold into slavery during the triangular slave trade. The three parties who took part in the trade were the Arabs, the white man, and the Africans. Black people are not of African descent. Africans are descendents of Ham. Black people are descendents of Shem. I know this may sound crazy, but it's true and it explains the condition of the real Jews today. I encourage everyone to do their research and find out who they really are. The truth of who the true Jews are is the one truth upon which all the lies that control the world are built. Shalom!

Sarai Yahawa <joandmrc@hotmail.com>
los angeles, ca USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:39:44 (EDT)


Of course ancient Egyptians were Black, this is really an indisputable fact. So let's move on to another more important topic. Who are the real Jews? In the article that prefaced my comment it was stated that Ham is the father of the Black races. First of all it is impossible to categorize people by skin color. If I have a dog and a cat that are both black does that make them the same species? Of course not. So are all dark skinned people the same just because of their skin color. The answer is no. But this is the racist propaganda that we have been taught. The bible clearly states in several places that the Jews are black. Job states that he is black. So does Solomon. Revelations 1 gives a description of Christ as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool. The bible also says that all of Isreal (the name given to Jacob the son of Abraham)is reckoned by geneology, meaning that you can not convert to being a Jew. It is determined by birth. Deut. 28:68 also states that the Jews would be taken on ships and sold into slavery. This was prophesized after the first captivity in Egypt(A greek name meaning bondage. The original name of Egypt is Mizarim after one of the sons of Ham). Have the white people calling themselves Jews ever been taken into bondage on ships? Or why isn't their skin dark like the Bible says it is and will always be? The true Jews don't even know who they are because they have been told that they are Black or African American, or Indians or Mexican or any other name given to people of so-called Negroid or Indian descent. In a book titled From Babylon to Timbuktu the arthur Ruldolph Windsor recounts how the Jews fled into Africa in 70AD to hid among other dark skinned people when the Romans invaded Isreal. They lived there as refugees for about 1200 years before being sold into slavery during the triangular slave trade. The three parties who took part in the trade were the Arabs, the white man, and the Africans. Black people are not of African descent. Africans are descendents of Ham. Black people are descendents of Shem. I know this may sound crazy, but it's true and it explains the condition of the real Jews today. I encourage everyone to do their research and find out who they really are. The truth of who the true Jews are is the one truth upon which all the lies that control the world are built. Shalom!

Sarai Yahawa <joandmrc@hotmail.com>
los angeles, ca USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:39:06 (EDT)


Of course ancient Egyptians were Black, this is really an indisputable fact. So let's move on to another more important topic. Who are the real Jews? In the article that prefaced my comment it was stated that Ham is the father of the Black races. First of all it is impossible to categorize people by skin color. If I have a dog and a cat that are both black does that make them the same species? Of course not. So are all dark skinned people the same just because of their skin color. The answer is no. But this is the racist propaganda that we have been taught. The bible clearly states in several places that the Jews are black. Job states that he is black. So does Solomon. Revelations 1 gives a description of Christ as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool. The bible also says that all of Isreal (the name given to Jacob the son of Abraham)is reckoned by geneology, meaning that you can not convert to being a Jew. It is determined by birth. Deut. 28:68 also states that the Jews would be taken on ships and sold into slavery. This was prophesized after the first captivity in Egypt(A greek name meaning bondage. The original name of Egypt is Mizarim after one of the sons of Ham). Have the white people calling themselves Jews ever been taken into bondage on ships? Or why isn't their skin dark like the Bible says it is and will always be? The true Jews don't even know who they are because they have been told that they are Black or African American, or Indians or Mexican or any other name given to people of so-called Negroid or Indian descent. In a book titled From Babylon to Timbuktu the arthur Ruldolph Windsor recounts how the Jews fled into Africa in 70AD to hid among other dark skinned people when the Romans invaded Isreal. They lived there as refugees for about 1200 years before being sold into slavery during the triangular slave trade. The three parties who took part in the trade were the Arabs, the white man, and the Africans. Black people are not of African descent. Africans are descendents of Ham. Black people are descendents of Shem. I know this may sound crazy, but it's true and it explains the condition of the real Jews today. I encourage everyone to do their research and find out who they really are. The truth of who the true Jews are is the one truth upon which all the lies that control the world are built. Shalom!

Karen Packer <joandmrc@hotmail.com>
los angeles, ca USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:38:24 (EDT)


Of course ancient Egyptians were Black, this is really an indisputable fact. So let's move on to another more important topic. Who are the real Jews? In the article that prefaced my comment it was stated that Ham is the father of the Black races. First of all it is impossible to categorize people by skin color. If I have a dog and a cat that are both black does that make them the same species? Of course not. So are all dark skinned people the same just because of their skin color. The answer is no. But this is the racist propaganda that we have been taught. The bible clearly states in several places that the Jews are black. Job states that he is black. So does Solomon. Revelations 1 gives a description of Christ as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool. The bible also says that all of Isreal (the name given to Jacob the son of Abraham)is reckoned by geneology, meaning that you can not convert to being a Jew. It is determined by birth Deut. 28:68 also states that the Jews would be taken on ships and sold into slavery. This was prophesized after the first captivity in Egypt(A greek name meaning bondage. The original name of Egypt is Mizarim after one of the sons of Ham). Have the white people calling themselves Jews ever been taken into bondage on ships? Or why isn't their skin dark like the Bible says it is and will always be? The true Jews don't even know who they are because they have been told that they are Black or African American, or Indians or Mexican or any other name given to people of so-called Negroid or Indian descent. In a book titled From Babylon to Timbuktu the arthur Ruldolph Windsor recounts how the Jews fled into Africa in 70AD to hid among other dark skinned people when the Romans invaded Isreal. They lived there as refugees for about 1200 years before being sold into slavery during the triangular slave trade. The three parties who took part in the trade were the Arabs, the white man, and the Africans. Black people are not of African descent. Africans are descendents of Ham. Black people are descendents of Shem. I know this may sound crazy, but it's true and it explains the condition of the real days today. I encourage everyone to do their research and find out who they really are. The truth of who the true Jews are is the one truth upon which all the lies that control the world are built. Shalom!

Karen Packer <joandmrc@hotmail.com>
los angeles, ca USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:36:04 (EDT)


This comment is directed to the poster who believes Walter Rodney's premise about "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa". The truth is that the black countries were undeveloped well before the advent of European colonialism. Below I have included many racist and disdainful writings from medieval Islamic writings about blacks (Zanj). The intense level of disdain for the barbarism of black cultures, as well as a belief in an inferior black intellect, suggests that the level of civilization in most black countries was extremely low well before Europe entered the picture. Of the neighbors of the Bujja, Maqdisi had heard that "there is no marriage among them; the child does not know his father, and they eat people -- but God knows best. As for the Zanj, they are people of black color, flat noses, kinky hair, and little understanding or intelligence." - Maqdisi (fl. 966 AD), _Kitab al-Bad'_, vol.4 "We know that the Zanj are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions." - Jahiz (d. 868 AD), _Kitab al-Bukhala'_ "Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament." - Jahiz, _Kitab al-Hayawan_, vol. 2 "They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at all times -- even the Zanj, despite their dimness, their boundless stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil dispositions, make long speeches." - Jahiz, _Al-Bayan wa`l-tabyin_, vol. 3 "[inhabitants of black African countries] are people distant from the standards of humanity" "Their nature is that of wild animals...." - from the Persian geography _Hudud al-`alam_, 982 AD "The Zanj are slight-witted (_kam 'aql_), and God, most high, has created them stupid, ignorant, and foul (_palid_)." from anonymous _Iskandarnamah_, 1343 AD "Galen says that merriment dominates the black man because of his defective brain, whence also the weakness of his intelligence." - Mas`udi (d. 956 AD), _Muruj al-dhahab_ "As regards southern countries, all their inhabitants are black on account of the heat of their climate. Most of them go naked. In all their lands and provinces, gold is found. They are people distant from the standards of humanity." - Persian geography _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD About the Zanj: "Their nature is that of wild animals. They are extremely black." About the Sudan: "Among themselves there are people who steal each other's children and sell them to the merchants when the latter arrive." - _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD "The Zanj are so uncivilized that they have no notion of a natural death. If a man dies a natural death, they think he was poisoned. Every death is suspicious with them, if a man has not been killed by a weapon." - Abu Rayhan al-Biruni, _India_, 1030 AD "If (all types of men) are taken, from the first, and one placed after another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the Southern-most countries, the Negro does not differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth,--in no other peculiarity or property,--except for what God wished. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent." - Philosopher-theologian Nasir al-Din Tusi (1201-74), _Tasawwurat_ "Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated." - Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_, 14th century AD "beyond [Islamicized peoples of black West Africa] to the south there is no civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings. They live in thickets and caves, and eat herbs and unprepared grain. They frequently eat each other. They cannot be considered human beings." - Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_ "A man of discernment said: The people of Iraq ... do not come out with something between blonde, buff, blanched, and leprous coloring, such as the infants dropped from the wombs of the women of the Slavs and others of similar light complexion; nor are they overdone in the womb until they are burned, so that the child comes out something between black, murky, malodorous, stinking, and crinkly-haired, with uneven limbs, deficient minds, and depraved passions, such as the Zanj, the Ethiopians, and other blacks who resemble them. The Iraqis are neither half-baked dough nor burned crust but between the two." - Ibn al-Faqih al-Hamadani, _Mukhtasar Kitab al-Buldan_, 903 AD "[Blacks] are ugly and misshapen, because they live in a hot country." - Ibn Qutayba (828-89 A.D.) /////////////////////////////////// "The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes 'lack of knowledge and defective minds' to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their kings only acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of learned visitors from farther north." - BernardLewis, _Race and Slavery in the Middle East_, 1990 "In both Arab and Iranian Islamic writings, blacks are accused of being stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry, and easily affected by food and drink." - Minoo Southgate, "Negative Images of Blacks in Some Medieval Iranian Writings," Iranian Studies 17 (1984): p.10

Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 20:34:18 (EDT)


Regardless of what, WE ARE AN AFRICAN PEOPLE and I love each and every one of you, MY PEOPLE. May the ancestors guide you and strengthen you as they motivate you to the level you need to be. WE ARE AN AFRICAN PEOPLE.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 20:24:15 (EDT)


Alafia!!! I focus my words on those who wonder why it seems we are not concerned about Benin, Zimbabwe, and other African civilizations, as well as, for those who try to degrade African culture and civilization with superficial misunderstandings. I recall a brilliant mind and scholar, one who's research could not be refuted in an UNESCO meeting in 1974, this brilliant mind is Cheikh Anta Diop. Diop believed African people could not stand, if they did not reclaim their heritage; the heritage inherited from Hapi (Nile) valley inhabitants. If we look at Africa without a Egypt can not be proved to be anything but Black, the history of African people would be forever incomplete. I also agree. I willing admit to not being an intense student of Kemet, but as a student of West and Central African people, I know without Kemet the studies of these people would be like studying France without knowledge of the Celts. There would be no comprehensive study. It is fruitless to not recognize the common cultural traits between Kemet and the rest of Africa. This would include the migrations of various African groups, who detail in their traditions of coming from the distant northeast sometime after 1st century A.D. The Nok people of Nigeria are given ample study, but even a child looking at the artwork of the Nok can see the striking similiarity (physical and artistic) between the Nok and the Kamau. Why is it so hard for many to fight against the real grain? Which is, indeed, an uphill battle as more evidence is coming out to smash the age-old myths of the past. For those, who continue to judge my ancestors by Western standards (which indicates a biased stance), I will entertain you with much evidence of African mathematical and scientifical skill. The Dogon of Mali are some of the greatest astromoners ever known. The Dogon understood the physics of sound dynamics and had correlate an exceedingly complex cosmogony containing much symbolic know-how with numerical notation. The Bakongo people of Central Africa understood the intimate interplay of al-chemi (Al' Khem) as is shown in the "yowa" cross of the four elements and their respective characteristics and components. The Bambara of central Mali knew a numerical system, reminiscent of Kemet, which was not devoid in spiritual concepts as today's number system. The Akan people of Ghana prescribed efficient calendars which, like all African people, contain an esoteric and spiritual element. The Yoruba of Nigeria created a divination system known as Ifa which is based of binary configurations. The Ewe of Benin and Togo comprehended the essential life element in people and hidden this understanding in the symbolic form of Da, the Serpent. Many of these African acheivements which can point to a mathematical overstanding are not presented in sterile books, where only the unattached and unemotional "elitist" could debate about in scientific and philosophical squabbles, but in the society itself, where application (experience because these teachings are essential for spiritual well-being) can be utilized. There are many instances too numerous to highlight because African people are no less the mathematical genius of their ancestors. It is only the biased and opinionated individuals who can not comprehend African cultural concepts, which hinders them from finding the same mathematics implied in Kemet. I apologize if my writing is sporadic and highly unstructured, but this was how the Egun/ancestors saw fit for me to write. Egun Mojuba Iba E. Adupe Ariku Babawa. Olorun ise tobi. Suuru Enia Dudu Suuru!!! I'm not finished!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis , MN USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 20:12:13 (EDT)


Oh, for the so called Egyptologist, I forgot, Sudan is ARABIC for Black not Kemetic.

Menes again
USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 17:26:36 (EDT)


Oh, for the so called Egyptologist, I forgot. Sudan is ARABIC for Black he Kemetic.

Menes again
USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 17:26:07 (EDT)


Another good book is: How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney. Ignorant racists should be sure to read it instead of asking idiotic questions like What Happened to Africa? The question should be why were the Europeans so susceptible to EVIL.

Menes/Narmer
USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 16:55:48 (EDT)


Inbred trailer trash like so-called Pro-Truth and the Sherry thing are obviously the product of a Melanin deficiency, calcified Pineal Gland, and generations of inbreeding. Pro-Truth (Mr. white boy)....did you marry your sister or mother? Shame on you! BAD BOY! BAD BOY! Firstly, if white people would leave Africa alone it would not need foreign aid. And why did you bring up slavery? We know the massive role of the Jews in the African slave trade you fool. This site and the conversation is not about slavery. You got off on the wrong boat. This site is about our Black heritage and what we think of ourselves. Your opinion nor that of any white person living or dead DOES NOT MATTER! You mention drug....90% of the cocain usage is by white people.....you savage inbred! You have been a BAD BOY with your sister you racist!!! BAD BOY!!! You are a DEVIL! My people do not call themselves niggers one one thousandth as much as you would like to believe. Instead, you and your inbreds will be suprised the wecall people like you NIGGERS. You don't have to be Black to be a NIGGER! That word has nothing to do with us and you have nothing to do with our Ancestry! You are irrelevant white inbre trailer trash as on your way out already after only 400 years of terror!. Why should you care about what we think of ourselves if you were not afraid!!!!!!!!!! Don't come back here inbred trailer trash......or you will get yet another ass kicking! THUTMOS TURNER

Thut,mos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 15:24:54 (EDT)


I will use our post to answer these questions since it seems she is not reading 1. Inscription of Uni- ANSWER-(Legrand H. Clegg II USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 20:26:44 (EDT))"Breasted (who wrote the Inscription of Uni), as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as "Black," when it meant no such thing. So all of that nonsense that you have quoted about "Blacks" not being able to cross into Egypt, etc. is a farce. Nahasi was a geographical name applied to certain peoples, tribes and nations south of Egypt. Remember, the people of Punt (modern day Somalia, Kenya & Uganda) were also south of Egypt and Black, but the Egyptians did not refer to them as Nahasi because they were in a different location (in East Africa and on the horn of Africa)" 2.Blond Haired Mummy- ANSWER-I would like the Egyptologist to tell me when this blond haired mummy was alive. Because Greeks did invade Egypt and once again ((Legrand H. Clegg II USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 20:26:44 (EDT))"In a recent article in KMT magazine (also see Science, June 9, 1978, p. 1149), it was pointed out that grave robbers stacked scores of mummies on top of one another, and later Egyptologists picked and chose at random which mummies they wanted to represent which pharaohs. Since most Egyptologists are blatantly negrophobic, we, as Blacks, certainly do not trust the validity of most of the mummies they have selected, especially when these mummies do not bear the characteristics of the corresponding sculptures and monuments." 3. The Hair is Caucasian not negroid-ANSWER-Even if it is the hair of an authentic Egyptian, (Kwabena Adofo Danquah Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 20:28:35 (EDT))Many Australian Aborgines (the Black Fellows) as children can sometimes have Blond, curly hair, although they possess very dark skins, wide nasal passages, and pronounced facial prognathism. The Fulani, who many historians (even some to this day) believed are an intermixture of Caucasoids and local African populations, have straight hair and "Caucasoid" features. However, the historians' assertions have no genetic basis, since the Fulani compare little genetically to Caucasoids. This is also the case with the Tutsis of (Bu)Rundi and Ruanda (Rwanda), they have fallen into the slender "Hamites" category because of their non-Negroid features and possible Egyptian origin. And also,(Mack "Menes" Audena Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 00:34:31 (EDT)) "I can tell you that I had a forum on Friday discussing the issues in Africa and a professor from Ethiopia came and his hair had it been longer would be exactly like those found on the mummies." So there's your answer. There is no answer to our question though is there? (Mack "Menes" Audena Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 00:34:31 (EDT))"G.M. Morant said that the skulls of the ancient Egyptians were Ethiopian, Greek historians say that the Egyptians were of the same branch as the Ethiopians, and even the Website says that the are Ethiopians. Were is your proof or fact against that. Are you saying that Ethiopians are not Black? I need to know? Are you saying that Kemet does not mean Land of the Blacks? Please let me know Egyptologist. If you can't answer those then what more are you arguing. Narmer's so called 25th Dynasty bust? That really doesn't matter much since the Egyptians like the Ethiopians are/were black now does it. Until you can get proof of that (which you can't unless you follow in the ways of white supremist and invent some) you can't put up an argument." Are you now claiming that present day Ethiopians and Nubians aren't Black?

Mack Audena
Age: 20, USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 15:17:28 (EDT)


I feel it to be very appropriate to re-print the moderator"s comments. This is a legendary ass-kicking for the Sherry thing and all other barbaric savages like the so-called "PRO TRUTH" white devil and his inbred trailer trash good ol boy following. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::To Carl and Sherry: Most of our Black colleagues refuse to respond to White people who passionately condemn our contention that the ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. They believe that to attempt a debate withCaucasians on this issue is a useless dialogue of the deaf. We, on the other hand, believe that most White people are victims of a vast conspiracy promoted by scholars, scientists and politicians who have developed a civilizationbased on fiction. Part of this fiction is that Whites have been the harbingers of civilization since time immemorial, and that Blacks and other people of color have been their subordinates throughout history. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Hence, when you come to this site with your views, we are certain to respond. We believe that the falsification of history by White scientists and scholars has remained unchallenged for far too long. And wecertainly will not tolerate it here. So, let's get it on! We'll start with you, CARL: It is absurd for you to claim that "no one denied Egypt is in Africa…just not Black Africa." I challenge you to find 10 books written by White Egyptologists who mention that Egypt is in Africa. They are in such denial that they cannot even tell the truth about geography. Why? Because they know that to mention Africa would suggest Blackness and the real origin of all African people, including the Egyptians. Secondly, you claim that the Egyptians "mixed with blacks" during the late period and that this was responsible for the decline of the country. This, too, is untrue. The Egyptiansthemselves traced their origin to the BLACK SOUTH- the land of Punt, modern day Somalia, Kenya and Uganda. Even racist White Egyptologists will admit that the early fossils and skulls of the predynastic Egyptians are "Negroid." The Black Egyptians later mixed with Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Roman, etc.-all of whom brought nothing but destruction and desecration of monuments, traditions and human beings. Finally, if Egypt were indeeda White (you say "blonde") civilization, why did White people cross the mountains and hills of Europe, sail across the Mediterranean into Africa and then cross miles of hot desert sands to begin civilization on another continent,yet they left no evidence of their brilliant civilization in Europe! Why? Because this never happened! The truth is that Black people founded Egypt long before Europeans even existed in the world. White journalist Richard Poehas said the following about the earliest White Europeans: "Why is the racial identity of ancient Egypt such a sensitive issue? Perhaps because it touches on the question of who invented civilization: Whites or Blacks? Whenthe pyramids were built, Europe was still a wilderness, peopled by cannibals and headhunters." We are not "inventing proof," Carl, White scholars and scientists have been doing so for two hundred years, and we, as Black people, are simply not going to tolerate this degradation of our people and our history any more. It must stop, now, as we enter the 21st Century. Now, as for you, Sherry: You stated that you do not understand what White people would gain from claiming the ancient Egyptians were White, if this were not so. Why would they lie about history? White scientists and scholars would lie about history for the perpetuation of the illusion of White supremacy. White supremacy dominates everything in this society (i.e., economics, education, labor, law, politics, religion, etc.) The distortion of history is just one component of this longstanding practice and tradition. The Egyptians had many slaves, some of whom were Black people from the south-the very south to which the Egyptians traced their origin. In centuries passed Europeans enslaved other Europeans, and no one questioned the fact that some White peopleenslaved other Whites. But, if Egyptians enslaved Nubians they must have been of a different race. This is nonsense. Both the Egyptians and Nubians were African people. As you will see below, in my brief reference to Egyptian mummies, the remains that you make reference to are totally inconclusive. There is no proof of the true identity of the mummies of Ramesis II and Queen Hatshepsut. Furthermore, Queen Hatshepsut was the granddaughter of the unquestionably Black queen Ahmose Nefertari, co-founder of the 18th dynasty. Hatshepsut's entire family was of Nubian origin. Moreover, have you seen the wall paintings of Queen Hatshepsut's expedition to the African nation of Punt? The king and queen of Punt were clearly Black Africans. The peaceful relationship between the Egyptians and the Puntites resulted from the fact that the Egyptians traced their origin to Punt. We are well aware of the on-again/ off-again conflict between the Negroid Egyptians and the Black Nubians. Breasted, as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as "Black," when it meant no such thing. So all of that nonsense that you have quoted about "Blacks" not being able to cross into Egypt, etc. is a farce. Nahasi was a geographical name applied to certain peoples, tribes and nations south of Egypt. Remember, the people of Punt (modern day Somalia, Kenya & Uganda) were also south of Egypt and Black, but the Egyptians did not refer to them as Nahasi because they were in a different location (in East Africa and on the horn of Africa). In this vein, Cheikh Anta Diop has written: "Because of this inscription which marked off the border between the Meriotic Sudan and Egypt after the troubles of the Twelfth Dynasty, it is often concluded that this separated two distinct races, that the stela barred 'Blacks' from entering Egypt. Such a conclusion is a grievous error, for the term "Black" was never used by the Egyptians to distinguish the Meriotic Sundanese from themselves. Egyptians and Meroitic Sundanese belonged to the same race. They designated each other by tribal and regional names, never by epithets related to color, as in cases involving contact between a black race and a white race." Diop also adds: "Not one of the many modern texts is authentic that mentions the term 'Black' as if it had ever been used by the Egyptians to distinguish themselves from Negroes. Whenever these texts relate some fact reported by the Egyptians about 'Blacks' it is a distortion. They translate Nahasi by 'Blacks' in order to serve the cause. Strangely enough, the word Kushite becomes incompatible with the idea of 'Blacks' as soon as it refers to the first inhabitants who civilized Arabia before Mohammed; the land of Canaan, prior to the Jews (Phoenicia); Mesopotamia, prior to the Assyrians (Chaldean epoch); Elam; India, before the Aryans. This is one of the many contradictions that betray the specialists' fear of revealing facts they must have detected." Now the word Kemit, WHICH DOES MEAN BLACK, was used by the Egyptians to describe themselves; but the same Egyptologists who mistranslate Nahasi as Black claim that Kemit refers not to the people, but to the soil. This, Sherry, is indeed racism, and we unequivocally reject it. You mentioned Sesostris I and III and claim that they hated "the Blacks." Sherry, not only were these middle Kingdom pharaohs of Nubian origin, but also their sculptures depict them as unquestionably Black Africans themselves. Even some of their queens (e.g., Kawit and Ashayet) are shown wearing "Afro" hairstyles. What we have here is Black Egyptians at war with Black Nubians. You cannot expect us to believe that these Black Pharaohs referred to the lands south of Egypt as Black lands, when they called their own country, Egypt, "the place (or land) of the Black people." Nahasi does not mean Black. Kemit does. In the midst of all your citations, you also mentioned the pharaoh Ahmose, brother of Ahmose-Nefertari (also his queen) as saying "The Black is helpless." Even Harris and Weeks (no friends to Africentrists), who wrote "X-Raying The Pharaohs," admit that this pharaoh and his family were "genetically influenced by people of the south." They go on to say: "Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian…origin for Sequenenre [Ahmose's grandfather] and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is true, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination." Now here you have two White Egyptologists acknowledging that Ahmose (Hatshepsut's grandfather) was of Nubian origin, and yet, you insist that he despised "the Blacks." He may have despised his kinsmen because they were unruly or would not submit to his domination, but he certainly did not hate them because they were black. We reject your reasoning, Sherry, because it is the same preposterous thinking that has led to the illusion of a White (blonde, you claim) Egypt on the African continent. Generally, when the Egyptians painted foreigners, they depicted them true to form; but when they painted themselves, they often depicted themselves as reddish brown-the colors of life, blood and rebirth. This was a conventional color, which they used no matter what the actual color of the individual might have been. When the Egyptians chose to depict the RACES with which they were familiar, they depicted themselves and the Nubians with BLACK SKIN. They depicted Europeans and Semites as white and tan respectively. If you visit the tomb of Ramesis III (1200 B.C.) you will see this firsthand. Furthermore, the most ancient monument in Egypt, the Sphinx, bears the likeness of a Black African and, during the late period, when Herodetus and other Greeks visited Egypt, they described the people as Black skinned with woolly hair: Hence, from the early date of the Sphinx, through Ramesis III and finally the late period, the Egyptians were clearly "Negroid," in spite of their gradual mixture with foreigners. As for blue-eyed Egyptians, this is clearly a fluke. As a matter of fact, it may even be fake. Not even the staunchest racist would claim that the Egyptians had blue eyes. Next, the "mummy evidence" that you mention has lost all credibility. In a recent article in KMT magazine (also see Science, June 9, 1978, p. 1149), it was pointed out that grave robbers stacked scores of mummies on top of one another, and later Egyptologists picked and chose at random which mummies they wanted to represent which pharaohs. Since most Egyptologists are blatantly negrophobic, we, as Blacks, certainly do not trust the validity of most of the mummies they have selected, especially when these mummies do not bear the characteristics of the corresponding sculptures and monuments. All of the monuments of Ramesis II (son of the decidedly Negroid SETI I) depict him with a very broad nose and thick lips-White people have pointed noses and thin lips. It is interesting that you would focus on King Tutankhamen (18th dynasty) to draw a distinction between the Egyptians and the Nubians. The 17th dynasty was of almost pure Nubian origin and the 18th dynasty was founded by the same family. All 18 of these pharaohs and queens were either Black, Negroid or of Black origin. Don't you understand, Sherry, where there was conflict, these were Black people fighting other Black people, just as is happening in parts of Africa today. King Tut's mother and father were Negroid. If you don't accept this from us, then, let us give you the names of a few White scholars who agree: George Rawlinson, John Wilkinson, Gerald Massey, Christian Desroches-Noblecourt and Alexander von Wuthenau. As a matter of fact, Von Wuthenau says the following about King Tut, which should clarify our position for you: "The features of this king, whose mother was of pure black stock, are almost as Negroid as the ones of his captured Nubian enemies." One of the founders of modern Egyptology was Champollion the younger. He and his Colleagues knew that the ancient Egyptians were not White people. In a letter to his brother, he described the paintings on the tomb of Sesostris I. This is what he wrote about the White people, who were designated last in the status of human beings: "Finally, the last one is what we call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard, tall stature and very slender, clad in a hairy ox-skin, a veritable savage tattooed on various parts of his body; he is called Tamhou…finally (and I am ashamed to say so, since our race is the last and the most savage in the series), Europeans who, in those remote epochs, frankly did not cut too fine a figure in the world. In this category we must include all blond and white-skinned people living not only in Europe, but Asia as well, their starting point." In the same vein, Diop adds: "It was as a prisoner of war, transformed into a slave, chained and branded, that the white man first entered Egyptian civilization. Careful study of the documents could lead to no other conclusion. One may pretend to be ignorant of these facts, but they are indestructible. The white man contributed nothing to Egyptian civilization, any more than Black Africa today contributes anything to modern technical civilization…. This is why it is inaccurate to speak of components of separate Egyptian civilization-for it was Negro, devoid of any outside European or Semitic contribution, as shown by Egypt's deep affinities with Negro psychology. Its civilization may have disappeared precisely because it was unable to borrow from later cultures and became a victim of its own homogeneity." To emphasize the capriciousness and racism of White scientists and scholars, let us make a personal reference. Over thirty years ago, when we were attending American colleges and universities, White academicians declared that the Nubians or Ethiopians (of all people) were Whites. Now that we as Black people are reclaiming all of African history, White scientists and scholars have decided to give up Nubia, but to keep Egypt to themselves. Well, please understand that TRUTH is not dependent on the whims of the White academic establishment. The Nubians of antiquity were always Black Africans and the Egyptians, though mixed by invaders, were also originally Blacks. Diop has said the following about the distinction between the two nations: "It is common to mention the mastaba or Egyptian tomb paintings as a place to distinguish the Nahasi from the Rametou, that is, the 'Blacks' from the so-called Egyptians. That is tantamount to distinguishing Wolof from Bambara, Mossi from Toucouleur, and mistaking the latter for the Whites, or for a race distinct from the black race represented by the Wolof. For an African, this is an accurate evaluation of the distinctions usually made on the basis of Egyptian paintings." Just as has happened with Nubia, we predict that, in the next decade, the White academic establishment will finally admit, publicly, what it has always known-that ancient Egypt was originally a Black, African nation. In the meantime, however, our integrity will not permit us to timidly hide the TRUTH while White scholars and scientists scurry around trying to decide when to openly endorse it. Finally, even with all of the White suppression of evidence and lies, most of the mummies on display have Negroid features; DNA tests show a genetic relationship between the Egyptians and Nubians; and scholars like Diop and Greenberg have demonstrated that the tongue of the pharaohs was related to other African languages. Furthermore, if the Egyptians were white and blonde, why didn't the Greeks and Romans say so. They and the Hebrews described the ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with woolly hair. You and your kinsmen may continue to perpetuate white supremacist nonsense; but we as people of African descent are no longer dependent on you for information, thank God. So we will continue to tell our own story, whether you like it or not!!! Legrand H. Clegg II Editor & Publisher MA'AT News @ The Clegg Series Legrand H. Clegg II USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 20:26:44 (EDT)

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 15:03:55 (EDT)


I feel it to be very appropriate to re-print the moderator"s comments. This is a legendary ass-kicking for the Sherry thing and all other barbaric savages like the so-called "PRO TRUTH" white devil and his inbred trailer trash good ol boy following. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::To Carl and Sherry: Most of our Black colleagues refuse to respond to White people who passionately condemn our contention that the ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. They believe that to attempt a debate with Caucasians on this issue is a useless dialogue of the deaf. We, on the other hand, believe that most White people are victims of a vast conspiracy promoted by scholars, scientists and politicians who have developed a civilization based on fiction. Part of this fiction is that Whites have been the harbingers of civilization since time immemorial, and that Blacks and other people of color have been their subordinates throughout history. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Hence, when you come to this site with your views, we are certain to respond. We believe that the falsification of history by White scientists and scholars has remained unchallenged for far too long. And we certainly will not tolerate it here. So, let's get it on! We'll start with you, CARL: It is absurd for you to claim that "no one denied Egypt is in Africa…just not Black Africa." I challenge you to find 10 books written by White Egyptologists who mention that Egypt is in Africa. They are in such denial that they cannot even tell the truth about geography. Why? Because they know that to mention Africa would suggest Blackness and the real origin of all African people, including the Egyptians. Secondly, you claim that the Egyptians "mixed with blacks" during the late period and that this was responsible for the decline of the country. This, too, is untrue. The Egyptians themselves traced their origin to the BLACK SOUTH- the land of Punt, modern day Somalia, Kenya and Uganda. Even racist White Egyptologists will admit that the early fossils and skulls of the predynastic Egyptians are "Negroid." The Black Egyptians later mixed with Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Roman, etc.-all of whom brought nothing but destruction and desecration of monuments, traditions and human beings. Finally, if Egypt were indeed a White (you say "blonde") civilization, why did White people cross the mountains and hills of Europe, sail across the Mediterranean into Africa and then cross miles of hot desert sands to begin civilization on another continent, yet they left no evidence of their brilliant civilization in Europe! Why? Because this never happened! The truth is that Black people founded Egypt long before Europeans even existed in the world. White journalist Richard Poe has said the following about the earliest White Europeans: "Why is the racial identity of ancient Egypt such a sensitive issue? Perhaps because it touches on the question of who invented civilization: Whites or Blacks? When the pyramids were built, Europe was still a wilderness, peopled by cannibals and headhunters." We are not "inventing proof," Carl, White scholars and scientists have been doing so for two hundred years, and we, as Black people, are simply not going to tolerate this degradation of our people and our history any more. It must stop, now, as we enter the 21st Century. Now, as for you, Sherry: You stated that you do not understand what White people would gain from claiming the ancient Egyptians were White, if this were not so. Why would they lie about history? White scientists and scholars would lie about history for the perpetuation of the illusion of White supremacy. White supremacy dominates everything in this society (i.e., economics, education, labor, law, politics, religion, etc.) The distortion of history is just one component of this longstanding practice and tradition. The Egyptians had many slaves, some of whom were Black people from the south-the very south to which the Egyptians traced their origin. In centuries passed Europeans enslaved other Europeans, and no one questioned the fact that some White people enslaved other Whites. But, if Egyptians enslaved Nubians they must have been of a different race. This is nonsense. Both the Egyptians and Nubians were African people. As you will see below, in my brief reference to Egyptian mummies, the remains that you make reference to are totally inconclusive. There is no proof of the true identity of the mummies of Ramesis II and Queen Hatshepsut. Furthermore, Queen Hatshepsut was the granddaughter of the unquestionably Black queen Ahmose Nefertari, co-founder of the 18th dynasty. Hatshepsut's entire family was of Nubian origin. Moreover, have you seen the wall paintings of Queen Hatshepsut's expedition to the African nation of Punt? The king and queen of Punt were clearly Black Africans. The peaceful relationship between the Egyptians and the Puntites resulted from the fact that the Egyptians traced their origin to Punt. We are well aware of the on-again/ off-again conflict between the Negroid Egyptians and the Black Nubians. Breasted, as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as "Black," when it meant no such thing. So all of that nonsense that you have quoted about "Blacks" not being able to cross into Egypt, etc. is a farce. Nahasi was a geographical name applied to certain peoples, tribes and nations south of Egypt. Remember, the people of Punt (modern day Somalia, Kenya & Uganda) were also south of Egypt and Black, but the Egyptians did not refer to them as Nahasi because they were in a different location (in East Africa and on the horn of Africa). In this vein, Cheikh Anta Diop has written: "Because of this inscription which marked off the border between the Meriotic Sudan and Egypt after the troubles of the Twelfth Dynasty, it is often concluded that this separated two distinct races, that the stela barred 'Blacks' from entering Egypt. Such a conclusion is a grievous error, for the term "Black" was never used by the Egyptians to distinguish the Meriotic Sundanese from themselves. Egyptians and Meroitic Sundanese belonged to the same race. They designated each other by tribal and regional names, never by epithets related to color, as in cases involving contact between a black race and a white race." Diop also adds: "Not one of the many modern texts is authentic that mentions the term 'Black' as if it had ever been used by the Egyptians to distinguish themselves from Negroes. Whenever these texts relate some fact reported by the Egyptians about 'Blacks' it is a distortion. They translate Nahasi by 'Blacks' in order to serve the cause. Strangely enough, the word Kushite becomes incompatible with the idea of 'Blacks' as soon as it refers to the first inhabitants who civilized Arabia before Mohammed; the land of Canaan, prior to the Jews (Phoenicia); Mesopotamia, prior to the Assyrians (Chaldean epoch); Elam; India, before the Aryans. This is one of the many contradictions that betray the specialists' fear of revealing facts they must have detected." Now the word Kemit, WHICH DOES MEAN BLACK, was used by the Egyptians to describe themselves; but the same Egyptologists who mistranslate Nahasi as Black claim that Kemit refers not to the people, but to the soil. This, Sherry, is indeed racism, and we unequivocally reject it. You mentioned Sesostris I and III and claim that they hated "the Blacks." Sherry, not only were these middle Kingdom pharaohs of Nubian origin, but also their sculptures depict them as unquestionably Black Africans themselves. Even some of their queens (e.g., Kawit and Ashayet) are shown wearing "Afro" hairstyles. What we have here is Black Egyptians at war with Black Nubians. You cannot expect us to believe that these Black Pharaohs referred to the lands south of Egypt as Black lands, when they called their own country, Egypt, "the place (or land) of the Black people." Nahasi does not mean Black. Kemit does. In the midst of all your citations, you also mentioned the pharaoh Ahmose, brother of Ahmose-Nefertari (also his queen) as saying "The Black is helpless." Even Harris and Weeks (no friends to Africentrists), who wrote "X-Raying The Pharaohs," admit that this pharaoh and his family were "genetically influenced by people of the south." They go on to say: "Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian…origin for Sequenenre [Ahmose's grandfather] and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is true, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination." Now here you have two White Egyptologists acknowledging that Ahmose (Hatshepsut's grandfather) was of Nubian origin, and yet, you insist that he despised "the Blacks." He may have despised his kinsmen because they were unruly or would not submit to his domination, but he certainly did not hate them because they were black. We reject your reasoning, Sherry, because it is the same preposterous thinking that has led to the illusion of a White (blonde, you claim) Egypt on the African continent. Generally, when the Egyptians painted foreigners, they depicted them true to form; but when they painted themselves, they often depicted themselves as reddish brown-the colors of life, blood and rebirth. This was a conventional color, which they used no matter what the actual color of the individual might have been. When the Egyptians chose to depict the RACES with which they were familiar, they depicted themselves and the Nubians with BLACK SKIN. They depicted Europeans and Semites as white and tan respectively. If you visit the tomb of Ramesis III (1200 B.C.) you will see this firsthand. Furthermore, the most ancient monument in Egypt, the Sphinx, bears the likeness of a Black African and, during the late period, when Herodetus and other Greeks visited Egypt, they described the people as Black skinned with woolly hair: Hence, from the early date of the Sphinx, through Ramesis III and finally the late period, the Egyptians were clearly "Negroid," in spite of their gradual mixture with foreigners. As for blue-eyed Egyptians, this is clearly a fluke. As a matter of fact, it may even be fake. Not even the staunchest racist would claim that the Egyptians had blue eyes. Next, the "mummy evidence" that you mention has lost all credibility. In a recent article in KMT magazine (also

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 14:45:51 (EDT)


Curtis, is right. So I speak to my brothers and sisters, don't be discouraged, it is up to us to lift ourselves. The first country that got its independence was Ghana in 1957- only 42 years ago. Civil rights movement was in the 60s- also about 40 years, we all know people that old. America took two hundred plus years to be where it is at. Africa is the world's richest continent and once we stop letting people come in and exploit us, we will take advantage of it. So, learn, spread the word, teach the youth, love your people regardless of minor differences because we have a common enemy of oppression. These LAWS were passed down from Mzee Wade Nobles (Afrikan Centered Sakhu Sheti-ist). PASS THEM ON!!! 1.THE LAW OF MISKNOWING: If you don't understand white supremacy, EVERYTHING else you think you know will only confuse you. 2.THE LAW OF NONBEING: If you don't exist according to your Afrikan essence, everything else you think you are will only be a diminishment. 3.THE LAW OF UNDOING: The experience of one generation becomes the history of the next generation. And the history of several generations becomes the traditions for the people. My brothers and sisters, can you taste the fear yet? Do you realize our potential? Once we get mobilized there is no stopping us. Always remember be black, buy black, think black and everything else will take care of itself. Here are two books that should be read, Blue Print for Black Power by Amos Wilson, and Black Labor White Wealth by Claude Anderson Ed. D. In the Words of John H. Clarke and Marcus Garvey: "We must regain our confidence in ourselves as a people and learn again the methods and arts of controlling nations. We must hear again Marcus Garvey calling out to us: UP!UP! YOU MIGHTY RACE! YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU WILL!"

Mack "Menes" Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pitt, PA USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 14:43:27 (EDT)


Of course you can claim DNA, and certain mummies with black/negroid hair. There were blacks in Egypt , and the 25th dynasty was under black rule. As for the earliest ancient egyptians, they were of the caucasion race. You try to distort things by throwing in " DNA evidence, Hair, evidence..etc. " but it isnt working with me, because I know of and about the timeline and the different dynasty and what rule they were under. Yet...to all of you I am still this "racist" liar..yet, no one has answered to "THE INSCRIPTION OF UNI", and what the ancient egyptians ahd wrote in regards to blacks. No one here wants to touch that subject..because it is true and it is undisputable. I am far from "ignorant", I think most of you are very "ignorant" to fall for these lies, in order to boost your self esteem. If you so desperately want to relieve your insecurities, and self-hatred, try not to hang onm to something that you didnt take part of. Why dont you take all of this energy that you have, and convert it into building something special for you and your people...something you can truly call "Your Own". One more thing..even though everyones tempers are quite flared now...answer "THE INSCRIPTION OF UNI", and answer the "BLONDE-HAIRED" mummies...they were not ethiopian, as much as you would like them to be...the blonde mummies not only have "blonde" hair, but the hair upon their heads is that from the caucasion race, not negroid. Also, in regards to the skin tests listed above in those so called facts..of course that is true...like I said before, and I guess Ill have to say it again, there were blacks in egypt, though the blacks were not responsible for the greatness of egypt, they were there as slaves. You can easily see blacks in bondage in many egyptian artifacts/art etc etc. Also, all of this nonsense, that I have read that I have shown who I am now...I never "Hid" from anyone who I am, instead, it was most of you who made racial slurs towards me, and demeaning statements, towards me..when I put the truth in front of you...so before you resort to "calling" me names and arguing with me...look thru mostly all of the posts..and you will see what I mean..I was called everything from white devil to poor sad child..etc etc..ALL for speaking the truth, then many of you had the face to call me a "racist" ??? Please..practice what you preach, and in the future if you are sincere about your beliefs, it doesnt show sincerity to post profanities, and "bash" those who are in conflict with your idealogies. Think about it. Than, if anyone CAN...I'm still waiting for your evidence, proof,, facts..with references..pertaining to the subject matter. Until then..its obvious none of you are happy...try to cheer up and get your facts together before you make such huge accusations pertaining to a certain subject.

sherry
USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 14:19:07 (EDT)


Listen, we are being baited here. It is a Catch-22 situation. If we do not respond, they claim victory. They will state that their neo-nazi myths from pseudo-intellectual neo-nazi sources are true, and that we are remaining silent because we cannot fight against the “truth.” On the otherhand, if we respond with facts (as many have already), they will respond with ridicule, mocking, and slander. Many of us fail to understand that no matter how much we debate, no matter what historical and scientific evidences we bring forth, we are dealing with Stormfront’s Storm Troopers. These neo-Nazis believe what they believe and no amount of proof is going to change that. By arguing and trying to convince those who will never be convinced, we are, in effect, playing ourselves. Build up yourselves, your brethren, and your community with these truths, but DO NOT waste precious time and energy trying to educate them. It is futile, and even worse, it is moronic. Their vile hatred and racism is apparent, if we act just like them, how can we claim the higher ground. We must conduct ourselves as men, and not spiteful children. (Please excuse my spelling mistakes in this or previous posts, I am under time constraints and my typing is not the best.) Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 11:50:22 (EDT)


For our education and understanding: Just consider these truths. With only a few exceptions, even the most racist “Egyptologists” of the 1800’s and early to mid-1900’s, did not claim that the Egyptians were Aryans or Nordics. They stated that the Egyptians were either a (1) Red race; (2) Hamitic Race; or a (3) Mediterranean race. They descriptions of these people often included Somalis and Eritreans as examples of Hamitic and Mediterranean types. They were originally considered “black-skinned white peoples.” A famous anthropologist and Egyptologist named Coon (last name, I forgot his first name), helped to popularize the myth of (white) Hamitic or Mediterranean races. He used skulls that had “sharp features” found in various regions of North Africa, and other places to show that this race existed. He messed up big time when he unearthed skulls that he originally characterized as white, but still had hair attached that he had to admit was Negroid. He proved that many of these “sharp-featured” Mediterraneans and Hamitics were in fact the same as Black Ethiopian and Somali types of today. As many have pointed out, these peoples are closer genetically to other Africans than they are to any European type. Moreover, the exceedingly early date attributed to the skulls which had their Black-African hair still attached negated any possibility that these peoples were mixed with whites. No modern Egyptologist (excepted those openly associated with these white nationalist groups) would dare make the stupid remarks sherry made. No one today, whether it be at the Museum of Cairo, New York’s Metropolitan Museum of Art or Museum of Natural History (both of which have extensive Egyptian related displays), or any of the Universities that have respected curriculum on Egyptology or Nubian history would ever argue that the Egyptians were blond haired/blue-eyed Aryans. It is so unheard of in our day and so ludicrous that to argue any further would, in itself, be foolish. Do not give fools the dignity of responding to their foolishness.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 11:46:08 (EDT)


sherry is ignorant and wrong its no secret no more.ancient egyptians were black look at the head statue of queen tiy shes black has a broad nose big lips i say the egyptian painting people were painted brown-bronze look at africans and blacks today our skin is brown and bronze you had your light egyptians just like you have your light african-american i hear that all african americans are mixed with indian this may be true it started 1000s of years ago blacks were all over the olmecs were black mix.blacks spreaded asia south america they were in india every were.they were even in north america were way before slavery were they could of interbreed leading to today any way the egyptian said it themselves they had dark-skins some light even supposely the greeks described them as dark-skin with wooly hair look at every statue of in egypt flat-broad noses fleshy lips last DNA SHOWED THEY ARE BLACK face it you stupid jealous white women blacks have ruled before

queen tiy was black <jdossjr@yahoo.com>
Age: 15, woodbridge, va USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 11:30:59 (EDT)


Mack, I have visited your site...it is nonetheless no more than the "twisting" of the truth. If this is what you need to boost your self esteem and that of your people by fabricating history, lying about when artifacts were made etc etc..that in itself is very sad. Another thing, "white" people are not scared..we dont fear you nor your people. For years "White" people have given more and more to your people than ever slavery could ever touch. FACT1: Your own people sold you into slavery. Fact2: Millions of dollars of so called "greedy" "devils" (as you call white people) have sent AID, MONEY, DOCTORS, etc etc..to your Mother Africa. To help in any way that they can ..your people from their "Famished" lands. African children die by the thousands each and everyday from not only Famines , but diseases as well. So, this "mean white devil, who is so greedy , sends his money and doctors to your great superhuman, civilized mother africa to try and help, what your great people have "messed" up and/or destroyed. Fact3: No black african government has ever lasted even to this day for more than 6 to 8 months. The fighting, the killing, the rioting, that your people display is a well known fact, and its not only in "south africa", it is all over the entire continent, where there is no so called "white supremecy rule". Fact4: I am not a racist towards ANY group, but I will list the facts for what they are: Jews were the largest "Slave" owners on American soil. Jews brought the MOST slaves here in their ships with their money, with their intentions at hand.If you doubt that, go to the nation of islams site, not a "white supremecy" site, and see for yourself. So, the so called "white-aryans" were not these vicious, devils who have oppressed your people...the way that you claim. Please in the future, LEARN your history. Fact5: President Lincoln and many other "white aryans" that held office within the government of the unites states, gave your people the option to go back to africa...all expenses paid, yet your people REFUSED to go back. They didnt want to go back, for america was much better than their famished land full of disease, and violence. Now, thats a FACT. Fact6: Our constitution was not even "written" for you and your people. It was written for European descendents and their "posterity". Which means european descendents and their children. Fact7: Throughout the past 50 years ,"white aryan devils" (as you call them) have made every effort they could possibly make to help "advance" you and your people. This was done and still is done to this very day...whether it be affordable housing, affirmative action, welfare, transportation(busing, etc) , student financial aid (because you&your people cried about not having the same opportunities as whites)..all of these new "hate " crime laws..medicaid, college courses in black history...and unfair media coverage/reporting in regards to real hate crime, and how much it is happening. Fact8: You and your people claim you want "equal" rights, well, I dont know what you and your people are still fighting for, because you now have "special" rights.This can be seen in places of employment, hospitals, etc etc..I could go on and on... Fact9: You and your people could never make up your mind what it is you want to be called: colored, negro, afro-american, african-american, including the "infamous " word "nigger", which is sopossed to be an "insult" to you and your people, yet you and your people walk around calling each other by the famous "N" word name. Makes no sense. Fact10:You and your people have made so insane claims on this board pertaining to ancient history...(which in itself, is RACIST,and it is full of fabrication of ancient history ,as well as lies)yet when confronted with facts, you NEVER did answer anything , nor any of your people , answer back with facts, you answered back with your personal OPINIONS , and claimed the truth to be all from a racist site or racist white devil european orgin. Fact11: Your people have not been "OPPRESSED" as you claim. If anything, you and your people have been "SPOILED" with the white european culture, that you strive so hard to be more like us, and when you cant succeed in doing so, you claim whites to be racist devils who dont want you to prosper. You claim history , facts, other races, for your lack of self-esteem, your lack of any solid true civilization, that you and your people have never built nor accomplished. Then when your confronted with facts...you claim.."its a war!!! They are scared...etc etc".No, again, we are not scared, we are and have been throughout history, a race of people who have been kind, caring, giving, fearful of God, loving God, christians who have loved and still love and take care of their families...we have taught one another, we have built civilizations with and for one another and our families..yet, somehow, this is "bad" in you and your peoples eyes.If you and your people are so "against" our modern civilization..our advancements etc etc..why dont you stop using our privledges? Dont go to the hosptial when you need to, dont go to schools, dont use the airport, dont drive your car, dont use your phone, dont flick your light switches on the wall to be able to see at night...dont go to the grocery stores, dont buy clothing...etc etc...Instead, you could follow your true african culture..you could hunt for your food, you can not only eat the meat from the food you hunted, but you could make clothing from it as well...no electric...make a fire to cook and for warmth, no tv, no entertainment..dance around within your tribes and paint your faces..and entertain your group....I know your probably REALLY mad right now...but isnt that the truth? Isnt that what many parts of africa are still like to this day? If you say no..you are in more denial than I already knew you were. Fact12: The BUST of NARMER was made during the 25th DYNASTY..whether you like it or not. Ask ANY EGYPTOLOGIST, when the bust was made. Why did you say that doesnt matter?? It does matter..it matters a lot. Simply because it was made some 2300 years AFTER Narmer had reigned, which within that time period, such a long time period, that would go to show that it is an inaccurate description of Narmer himself. There is only one other picture of Narmer, which was made during his reign...which CLEARLY does not resemble the bust that was made in the 25th dynasty . Narmer clearly did not, and does not have ANY negroid traits like you would like to give him...with your bust that you so desperately use made from the 25th dynasty..some 2300 years AFTER he had reigned. Fact13: The inscription of Uni. It clearly tells of the RACE relations in Egypt at that time. Instead of reposting it again...(the transcription) go back down, and read my post and you can see how the Egyptians used "blacks" for slave labor, and again, it came from the University of Chicago, egyptology and oriental institute. The same site that you used to twist the truth with. So as I said before, that site must not be racist..because you have used it. Check it out. Answer to "THE INSCRIPTION OF UNI". Then get back with me. Fact14: The Egyptians called SUDAN THE LAND OF THE BLACKS, NOT EGYPT ITSELF. STOP TWISTING HISTORY AND LYING TO YOUR OWN PEOPLE. IF YOUR PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT ENOUGH TO BELIEVE YOUR LIES...THAN YOUR AFROCENTRISM IS NOT WORKING. It should be based on the truth...and if you have to resort to lying to boost you and your people..something is VERY wrong with that. Fact15: There are ancient love letters from Egypt. Within these love letters, it states about a man loving this woman. In his poem it says: your skin is fair, and your breast is white....Look it up. That same site where someone here refered your people to...for the ancient egyptian love poems...that poem is on that site. Look for yourself. Fact16:Someone said in one of their posts that ethiopians had both red and blonde hair.So the blonde haired mummies along with the red haired ones, were ethiopian. Thats a lie in itself. You might as well say the old saying...if its black they think its white, and vice versa. A negros skull and bone structure DIFFERS so greatly not only from the white race but from every and any other race on the face of this earth. If the truth hurts, or if its racist to speak the truth, because it may hurt...I'm sorry . I will not and refuse to go along with these lies . Fact17:History books were re-written to cater to the black people. Our constitution was changed in our books, the infamous saying of that all people are created equal is a bluntant lie, not only physically on the outside, but biologically on the inside. Its a FACT. Now, you "hate" me because I have told you the truth. Fact18: Martin luther king. Did any of you know his real name? It wasnt even martin luther king. He stole his churches money to buy prostitutes, he beat his wife,he plagerized other "white" peoples writings and claimed them to be his own, and he was with the communist party. Yet, you and your people have distorted the truth of and about him. Even his wife, had this information to be sealed from the media/public, to try and protect his name..in the sense of what many people have thought of him to really be. Fact19: Fires within black churches in the south. Did any of you know that they were NOT set by any "white supremecy" group or organization? Did you know it was black people who set those fires to those churches and then labeled it as hate...yet..for some reason, when it was first thought that a "white supremecy" group was responsible..it went national on the news...yet when the REAL TRUTH came out...it was kept hush-hush. Hhmmm...I wonder why. Fact20: If you and your people were this great superhuman race...where are all of your superhuman cities, establishments, etc etc??? Why is it that africa is still what it has always been??? Why has no form of black government that is so FEARFUL and POWERFUL yet to show its face in Africa? Please explain that. Fact21: This "evil white devil" (thats what you have called white people) is so bad..why do your neighborhoods look like filth? Why are they drug infested? why does property value go down, on and in a community once you and your people have formed a community? The white man doesnt twist your arm and force drugs down into your systems...you do that by choice. Fact22: If your black mind was so great and superior...wouldnt you think that your fabricated ancient history would still be reigning today??? You people make no sense at all. You are still crying the race card..when you should really be taking responsibility for yourself and your own actions...stop hating races, especially the white race for your self- hatred and insecurities, stop taking history and facts for what they really are and twisting them to "FIT" your racist idealogies...anyone who knows the truth, knows what LIARS you people are...and how do you fix that? You claim others to be racist and prey on your own peoples insecurities...no wonder Jesus is coming again soon...he has to put an end to all of this nonsense. Fact23: The orgins of man did not come from africa. In since, someone here was qouting the bible...I'll say it again...ADAM is the hebrew word for "ruddy". Ruddy means to turn red in the face like to blush/blushing...blood to come to the cheeks. I dont quite think "Adam" was black...that speaks for itself. Fact 24: Right at this moment, you are probably really mad....and you will fix your anger by saying we are at war...there are racist among us....there are oppressors here...well, you are wrong. Im not a hater, nor an oppressor, nor did my family ever own a "slave"...but I , just like many other people are getting tired of the crap that is and has been fed to us by your people. If you want respect that you all are so desperately calling out for...the ways that you are going around to get it ...are not going to work...be responsible, wake up and stop lying, take responsibility for your actions, obey the laws, and most importantly...stop blaming "white" people for all of your failures and insecurities..we are all tired of hearing it.

PRO-TRUTH
Your town, USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 11:10:25 (EDT)


Brothers and sisters, click on my name to check out my webpage. It is very educational, let the TRUETH reign.

Mack "Narmer" Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, pitt, pa USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 01:02:38 (EDT)


How is it that a so called Egyptologist gets ALL of her information from a White Supremist website. Also, we answered all your questions. If you go back to read the post you will see that. It seems to me that the burden of proof is on you, especially considering the website that you are visiting. First of all, there is no "it may" or "it seems" in my post, the Egyptians WERE Black. It seems to me that you are the one that has answered none of my questions. G.M. Morant said that the skulls of the ancient Egyptians were Ethiopian. Greek historians said that the Egyptians were of the same branch as the Ethiopians. and even the Website that I was referred to, says that the Egyptians were similar to the Ethiopians. Were is your proof or fact against those true FACTS. Are you saying that Ethiopians are not Black? I need to know? Are you saying that Kemet does not mean Land of the Blacks? Please let me know, Egyptologist. If you can't answer those all of those questions then what more are you arguing? Narmer's so called 25th Dynasty bust? That really doesn't matter much since the Egyptians like the Ethiopians are/were black now does it? Until you can get proof that (which you can't unless you follow in the ways of white supremist and invent some) you can't put up an argument. You want to make statements about present situation in Africa. That was caused by Europeans. Like I said before, Europe wealth was not that great before they began behaving like true savages. Worst then animals because even pretators stop hunting after they've eating their full. Europeans' greed couldn't be satisfied; that is devilish. I wouldn't take pride in it if I were you. Besides, even with technology how great do you think you are? Everything so impersonal, we behave more and more like robots and less like people. That is because of the lack of Ma'at that seems to be prevalent in most Europeans. Had Europeans not been so greedy perhaps we could've had a balance between humanity and technology. It's okay though, cause history isn't over, I know you fear this, but it is website like this that will teach Blacks to unite. And it has begun. Look at the statistics of Africentric websites that have popped up on the internet. The teaching is spreading like wild fire. You can't stop it because once Black people begin to rise there will be no stopping us. Africa, is presently attempting to get a continental Parliament by the year 2001. (for my brothers and sisters who want to see the news clip here is the website: http://news2.thls.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_443000/443224.stm.) In addition, we are very aware of the fear diminishing numbers in the near future. We are aware of "The Coming Fall of the West" (Chapter 68 of Europa: History of the White Race). And I don't say this out of hate, I, too, am trying to prove a point. Black Men Ruled the World Once and with our Rise we will bring order to it. Slowly but Surely. My Brothers and Sisters the struggle continues.

Mack "Menes" Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 00:34:31 (EDT)


How is it that a so called Egyptologist gets ALL of her information from a White Supremist website. Also, we answered all your questions. If you go back to read the post you will see that. It seems to me that the burden of proof is on you especially considering the website that you are visiting. First of all, there is no "it may" or "it seems" in my post, the Egyptians WERE Black. It seems to me that you are the one that has answered none of my questions. G.M. Morant said that the skulls of the ancient Egyptians were Ethiopian, Greek historians say that the Egyptians were of the same branch as the Ethiopians, and even the Website says that the are Ethiopians. Were is your proof or fact against that. Are you saying that Ethiopians are not Black? I need to know? Are you saying that Kemet does not mean Land of the Blacks? Please let me know Egyptologist. If you can't answer those then what more are you arguing. Narmer's so called 25th Dynasty bust? That really doesn't matter much since the Egyptians like the Ethiopians are/were black now does it. Until you can get proof of that (which you can't unless you follow in the ways of white supremist and invent some) you can't put up an argument. You want to make claims of how present situation that Africa. That was caused by Europeans. Like I said before, Europe wealth was not that great before they began behaving like true savages. Worst then animals because even pretators stop hunting after they've eating their full. Europeans' greed couldn't be satisfied, that is devilish. I wouldn't take pride in it if I were you. Besides, even with technology how great do you think you are? Everything so impersonal, we behave more and more like robots and less like people. That is because of the lack of Ma'at that seems to be prevalent in most Europeans. It's okay though, cause history isn't over, I know you fear this, but it is website like this that will teach Blacks to unite. And it has begun. Look at the statistics of Africentric websites that have popped up on the enternet. The teaching is spreading like wild fire. You can't stop it because once Black people begin to rise there will be no stopping us. Africa, is presently attempting to get a continental Parliament by the year 2001. (for my brothers and sisters who want to see the news clip here is the website: http://news2.thls.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_443000/443224.stm. In addition, we are very aware of the fear diminishing numbers in the near future. We are aware of "The Coming Fall of the West" (Chapter 68 of Europa: History of the White Race). And I don't say this out of hate, I, too, am trying to prove a point. Black Men Ruled the World Once and with our Rise we will bring order to it. Slowly but Surely. My Brothers and Sisters the struggle continues.

Mack Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pitt, pa USA - Monday, October 18, 1999 at 00:24:13 (EDT)


Again...I don't "Hate". Hate is a very strong word..which none of you should "assume" that someone has. I read the two new posts, and I have noticed words such as..it may ..it seems...probably...all of these words are the words spoken by your people, in regards to ancient Egypt and the facts, yet I see those words used to try and distort the truth from what it really is, or was. Just like you all have "assumed" that I hate..you also have assumed the FACTS, to be a certain way to fit your idealogy. Other than ALL of the FACTS that I have posted here, that no one could answer to except for..it may mean this..or probably this..etc etc..that is YOUR opinion...not FACTS, so, no one still has yet, to prove the TRUTH to be wrong. Now as far as Egypt meaning the land of the blacks... the idea that the Egyptian civilization was founded or ruled by Blacks is easily dismissed by the simple fact that the Egyptians named the land to the south of them (after they had conquered Nubia), "Sudan," which means "land of the Blacks." If the Egyptians were Black themselves, it would make little sense to classify the land to the south of them as "land of the Blacks." Egypt was divided into two nations--Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt. The first Pharoah, Menes, ruled in the year 3400 B.C. Menes conquered the Black Nubians and built a great dam to divert the waters of the Nile. Thus they were able to drain the swamps and build a vast farming community in the fertile land. I dont know where you are getting your information, but it is clear that many of you have done nothing but..distort the truth..and add a little to it. * One question..If ancient egypt were really black (which it wasnt) where are all of these superhuman civilizations now? For that..what is nubia today? What is egypt today? To sum it all up what is africa in its entirety today? I keep reading posts from you and your people about the "savage" white man, and racial type slurs...yet, today, the most highly populated caucasion city is south africa, and it is a land of industry, wealth, buildings, paved roads, beaches resorts,etc etc...yet , before it was populated by caucasions,your people did nothing , nor used nothing, nor took advantage of the rich minerals, oil, diamonds and gold, that south africa is full of. If your people were great scientists, mathmeticians, agricultural farmers...architecturers, why was that land, nothing more than a few tribes scattered about amongst the land? I dont say that out of hate, nor do I feel superior, nor do I think Im superior, I am simply trying to prove a point. The point being..with all of these accusations that many of you had made on this board, and then when neutral people as myself, weigh the facts, and in general, REALITY, it doesnt add up to what you are claiming. I also read some posts here in regards to religion, and that africa is the mother of all civilization..even the white man. How one of you put religion into it is beyond me, because in the bible, when God made "Adam" , the first man, which God made in his image. Do any of you, or particularly the one who posted about this ...do any of you know what "Adam" means? The Hebrew translation means.." ruddy" , which means to turn red in the cheeks...like to blush/blushing. I am not here to debate absolutely everything that people post towards me, I'd much rather discuss egypt, as that is my core interest. Also, for the record, I am an Egyptologist, and again, I have been to Egypt. However, I do not have to prove that to any of you, Id much rather discuss the facts at hand, as normal descent human beings...without all of the name calling and so called savageness that has been directed towards me..Anyway, like I said, I will soon have my post done with all references etc..to post. I encourage any of you to research it all and post back with facts, not opinions or hatred directed towards me, or caucasions in general. ..and, dont get upset and hate me because I tell you of the truth. Sherry

Sherry
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 21:40:52 (EDT)


I went to the web page Iskander Wagdi suggested and it is not in conflict with what we Afrocentrist are saying. One of the assertions that was made in the web page is that "Poloni et al. (1997). Egyptians and a few other African populations (Tunisians, Algerians, and even Ethiopians) showed a stronger Y-chromosome similarity to non-African Mediterraneans than to the remainder of Africans mostly from south of the Sahara." I must emphasize the fact that it says here ETHIOPIANS share the same Y-chromosomal similarity. This is strengthen by the fact that G.M. Morant research the skulls of the ancient Egyptians and found that they were typically found in Ethiopia. There is no evidence that can refute that, Sherry and Iskander. Are we now claiming that Ethiopians are not Black? Is that what I am to believe now? This clarifies the reason that the Greek historian Herodotus said that the Egypt was part of the Ethiopians empire. Like Mr. Danquah said in one of his posts "Africa is three times more diverse than Europe and twice as much as Asia." Another argument that is made is the distinction of color when the Kamau drew themselves as opposed to the other Africans. Let me reiterate what the guest book says for those of you who didn't read it "Many Black scholars have presented the Africentric view on the "race" of the Ancient Egyptians. Their research has triggered a reevaluation of certain assumptions. For example, most Black Africans do not have thick lips and broad noses. There are four distinct Black African physical types. All were part of the Ancient Egyptian population. Secondly Ancient Egyptian drawings were largely conventional. This means that they clearly had a symbolic meaning that was not true to form. For example, the traditional reddish brown color used to portray all men (no matter what their true skin tone) may have represented the African "blood of life" concept. For religious purposes, Black Africans have painted their bodies red or reddish brown from time immemorial. Therefore, one should not reach hard and fast conclusions about Egyptian ethnicity based on the color used in the tomb and pyramid drawings. Furthermore, even if the colors are accurate depictions of the people, a number of indigenous, unmixed Africans, like the Pygmies, have reddish brown skin tone. Yet no one would deny that these are "Black" African people. In light of this, if the Ancient Egyptians were indeed of reddish brown skin color, they were of the same color as modern Pygmies." So we can disregard the color argument. Another argument that is made is the hair thing. I can tell you that I had a forum on Friday discussing the issues in Africa and a professor from Ethiopia came and his hair had it been longer would be exactly like those found on the mummies. And I have a friend here at Pitt that I should take a picture of and post on my webpage, her name is Shewit she is Ethiopian and her hair is long and wavy and she is a lighter color; she is Black. So Sherry STOP HATIN'. And Iskwander unless you are prepared to tell Ethiopians that they are not Black, then you should be advocating our the Blackness of the Kamau.

Mack "Menes" Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, pitt, pa USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 20:52:15 (EDT)


I just took a quick scan of the most recent posts, at the suggestion of a friend. And I also took "sherry"'s advice and clicked on the web site as stated below. I do not claim to be a Kemetologist, or any kind of scholar, but please know, that in my personal opinion, anyone who claims to be a so-called "Egypt"ologist and believes that those of ancient KMT were not black should seriously reconsider returning to there studies before sending ludicrous posts. Let us set aside for a moment the fact that the true name for Egypt is Kemet which means "the land of the blacks" (Kem meaning black). All the "evidence" I've scanned concerning the art work, the busts, and mummies (referring to the "europa" web page) does not apply; the time periods in which these pieces were done tells us that at certain times it was "fashionable" to portray one's self like the afro-asians (Egyptians) of the time. Ancient civilization however, is before all that. Didn't anyone read "Destruction of Black Civilization" by Dr. Chancellor Williams? Plus the information stated above by this web site? The true evidence is clear enough to me. Dare I say that perhaps a few Amorites are holding on to this dream a little too tightly. Does not his-tory show how almost everything created by Africans, or those of African descent, are stolen, pilfered and made someone else's? Ourstory however, that which is of truth,will bring the principle of Ma'at to reign. Hetepu to my brothers and sisters who participated in this small, yet important, struggle (even though name- calling and ad hominem attacks are not necessary, the beast is aware of it's form:)

Kaiyilla <babygirl79@netnoir.net>
Age: 20, Pittsburgh, PA USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 18:02:14 (EDT)


One of your black brothers have posted a link right below my large post..his name is " Iskander Wagdi . It may be very educational for all of you to click on his name/link, to visit the web page he has refered you all to. I did. It is very interesting....

sherry
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 14:12:11 (EDT)


In regards to everything I have posted about Egypt..Fatcs, busts, Inscription of Uni...etc, etc...absolutely ..no one here, has answered these facts with facts...the only things that anyone done here has thrown in the "White Supremecy" card..and resorted to name-calling, towards me. Tell me...why cant ANY of you prove me wrong? Why cant any of you RESEARCH, the facts that I have posted here..before you resort to childish name calling and make such irrelevant accusations toward me..or for that white people in general? Also, for the one here who said that I did not answer anything that you had asked me...that is FALSE..evidentaly, you did not read my posts throughly..evidentaly , you did not do ANY research into the FACTS that I posted here. Instead...all that was GIVEN to me was name calling..."savage, racist,..etc.." But still..the TRUTH remains..no one here has yet to prove me wrong..so if you honestly believe in your heart that you know the truth...the truth of ancient Egypt, than why not show some ,aturity here, and present me with FACTS, that can out-weigh all of the FACTS that I have posted here..instead of your personal beliefs, and OPINIONS. Thats all that I have received from any of you ...were your OPINIONS, not FACTS. Now, one more thing I'd like to address, is Narmer. I read in a post below that, a bust of Narmer shows that he clearly had Negroid traits..the face, the lips, etc.. Now, can you tell me when that BUST was made? I can tell you. It was made during the 25th Dynasty, which was a colored dynasty, which is in facts,, some 2300 years AFTER narmers reign. There is only one other image of narmer that can be traced to his time of reign , and it clearly shows that he had none of the negroid features that you would like to attribute him to have. Also, with the Sphinx. I read in a post from one of you that he clearly has Negroid features. The sphinx has undergone thousands of years of sand abrasion, also, the arabs shot his nose off , not napoleons troops. Thats a fact. Also, if there is ANY question whatsoever as to the ORIGINAL facial structure of the Sphinx...without the deterioration of time..or sandstorms..you can view a photo of the ORGINAL gold bust of the sphinx..which will clearly show you ..that the sphinx has absolutely No negroid features ..again that you would like to attribute to him. You can see a photo of the GOLD BUST OF THE GREAT SPHINX ...in the ENCARTA ENCYCLOPEDIA...and you cannot call it racist..because it is the actual bust made from and by the ANCIENT EGYPTIANS. Now..what about the :Inscritptions of Uni ? The inscriptions were made from and by ANCIENT EGYPTIANS...not by any so called modern day racist...the same link that I saw posted on this board from some other black supremist...had posted a link to the University of Chicago/Egyptian and Oriental studies...the Inscription of Uni was interpreted by Breasted(sp) . So, if you black supremists are using that link to make your claims...than it must not be "RACIST" in your eyes...so I encourage you to look up the Inscription of Uni, which is from that link...you should really practice what you preach here..You all have made claims of racist history books..racist society in general...yet you are using the same links as I am...and coverting and twisting the FACTS to meet your beliefs and idealogies...that, in itself, is "Twisting history"..and lying not only to yourselves...but to one another. I am still working on my complete reference and Fact sheet that I will post here...I thought I would have it up sooner...but its full of information ..so it is taking me some time. None of you have "chased" me off...and I will continue to post here to debate any of you..unless the webmaster tells me not to come back. Other than that...I am preparing Fatcs for all of you..with references for you to research and study...if you choose to do so...with all due respect.." Try not to hate me because I tell you the truth". In Truth...Sherry

sherry
Philadelphia, Pa USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 13:18:06 (EDT)


X-dude Im neither a centrist nor am I anti-black.Go to http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html Even if you disagree with me,take a look for yourself, it won't kill you.

Iskander Wagdi
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 12:56:14 (EDT)


I have enjoyed reading the postings here... An overview of today's thought pre-occupation.. But I am wondering... History is "written", that is to say, behind us. Recorded either in truth or falsehood, should we not find ourselves in today's world, based on what WE are, not what they were? Color is not an issue, neither is descent... we cannot choose or change either. To live in harmony under the sun, while we have breath... and leave an heritage of peace to our progeny.... move ahead, make progress... Matt

Matt <poleboss@aol.com>
Age: 44, sun City,, ca USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 12:07:36 (EDT)


Another anti-black whose trying to disguise himself as a centrist.

X-Dude
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 10:10:36 (EDT)


Another anti-black whose trying to disguise himself as a centrist.

X-Dude
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 10:03:32 (EDT)


Sorry!I made a mistake the address Is http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html Take a look at the page tell me what you think.

Iskander Wagdi
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 05:22:49 (EDT)


Sherry is racist and most would agree that ancients looked nothing like nordics but at the same time they looked nothing like afo american.Genetic reserch shows that 60% of modern egyptians are indiginous.I strongly suggest you visit http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html. Having read some of the vulgar remarks below I fear it may be too late for some of you, but some of may become enlightened.Concerning African history why are you all focused on Egypt?Why are there so few webpages about Great Zimbabwae,the Nok and Benin?

Iskander Wagdi
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 05:17:21 (EDT)


Go to wwww.ancientgr.com IT WILL REWRITE THE HISTORY BOOKS!!

Anubis
USA - Sunday, October 17, 1999 at 04:21:46 (EDT)


Alafia. Firstly, I would like to say my words were not intended to attack anyone. I thought I was having a discussion concerning the ethnicity of the Kamau, not a name-calling fest. If I eventually implied White Supremacy inclinations to Sherry, it was only in response to what I believed were highly biased words. Under the interpretation that Sherry was a fellow researcher, I allowed her the right to present her research. Yes, like any inquiring mind, I asked her several questions, which I believed to be appropriate for the discussion. For the record and against Sherry's claims, those question were not answered!!! When this discussion spiraled out of hand, Sherry threw up the issue of excision, in attempts of displaying African savagery, however, the group (Egyptians) she finds "intriguing", also, if we take in accord their practice of male circumcision, must have practice excision during their reign. Because anyone knowing the philosophical and theological basis for circumcision would know circumcision makes no logical sense without its female counterpart, excision. However, Sherry, who seems to be grounded in Eurocentric ideology, rejected the spiritual ideas of excision for a outsider's view of barbaricity. Doing this and by not believing Egyptians could fall into this realm of "moral" degradation, she further disconnected fact by demonizing the "sub-Saharan" Africans and romanticizing the "Nordic" Egyptians. Such, at least to me, reflects an inherent racist methodology present. Unfortunately, many do not understand the meaning involved in the debate of whether the Egyptians were Black or White. So we have people dismissing it to an elementary level of narrow-minded dialogue or fruitless. But as we began to dissect the main issue, we will find this is only one battle ground (the 1st battle area) between two schools of thought, the Eurocentric and the Afrikan-centered. If the Afrikan-centered school wins the debate of a Black Egypt, the Western powers-that-be, not only just the academic powers, would surely feel threaten because alongside the Afrikan-centered model is the potential for a cultural, economic and political revolution. Such which has never been experienced by the Western Intellectual and Technical hegemony. This is really a threat in this era of Globalism or the Global community (Global Village), where Western culture and its ideals of universalism and progress is laying to waste non-Westerners'. It almost to make man in our own image and likeness, as we progress the "Third World" (lower rung of human evolution) to a level of human dignity and morality. In my classes, I was fortunate to have teachers who presented to the class the concept of Global Apartheid or what we in the Pro-Afrikan studies have known and called for years, White Supremacy. This is the real issue because the Afrikan-centered movement could initiate or at the least inspire future projects of "credible" Pan-Afrikanism, Economic Empowerment, Cultural Renaissance (really would effect the Western industry), and ad infinitum. So to avoid this from happening, movies, documentaries and character assasinations are employed to create apathy, dis-unity, or dis-trust among the probable "David" before "David" can slay "Goliath". In concert with this tactic, the Western world, also, attempts to find flaws in David's stone; so if David does unify, they (collective David) won't have a stone to throw. We must not get embroiled in the smoke-screen, but began to truly develop the Warrior stragety for our survival. To the Nubian brother, as a fellow anthropology student, it is much deeper than whether the Egyptians were Black or White, its about should White people have the luxury of falsifying evidenc to present themselves in a favorable light. I will admittedly tell anyone my focus area is in "sub-Saharan" Africa, in particularly West African, but I will not let some perpetuate a myth, which reached its height in an era of overt White Supremacy ideology. Because if such a myth, remmant of past overt Supremacy, is alive today, what does that tell you, me or anyone else about the nature of "inclusive, objective and multicultural" education we now receive. In closing, to answer the question Sherry first asked and bring home the point of this post, I would like to share with you all what I found out today. In recent weeks, the science world has been talking about a find in the Pacific Northwest, the Kennewick Man. It was originally believed this pre-historic fossil was a European. But after an extensive study, an anthropologist has revealed the Kennewick man's skull had been fashioned to look like a European, to support a Pre-Columbian European presence in the Americas. The model for this skull was a charcter for the old Star Trek series. Yes, it is an authentic skull, but it was reconstructed to look European. What a sham!!! Odabo!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 16:12:23 (EDT)


All praise to my warrior brothers! As Thutmos said, Sherry has been neutralized. This has been a small victory but still a victory. I am proud also.

Janet
Age: 31, Atlanta, GA USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 16:07:26 (EDT)


My brothers....you have done me proud! We have "TOGETHER" exposed the savages! We cannot lose whenever we work "TOGETHER". We can never lose whenever we do! We have defended our ground from all angles and I am proud to be BLACK! We must never voluntarily give up a single bit of our ground. The trailer trash Sherry thing has been "CUT OFF". I very rarely post anything at this site, but when we are attacked by savages, we must claim our ground and our heritage with a powerful defence. I am proud of the scholars here that have exposed the barbarian. HOTEP. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 16:03:05 (EDT)


I decided to link the stormfront page with pictures of "blond aryan Egyptsians" on it.The mummys i recognize and I believe they originate from the bogs of the British Isles and not egypt and as for the statue of the white blue eyed pharoh it has to be a fake probably made for some cheap B movie. SHERRY IS A WHITE FAT ASS CRACKER WHO SHOULD GO BACK TO IMPOVORISHED EURASIA!!!!!!!!

Osiris
USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 14:15:30 (EDT)


StormFront, should have known. Been there and done that. Their website is ludicrous; I was directed to it by a link. I made the mistake of trying to educate some neo-nazis on one of there newsgroups. I don't mean to name call, but what a bunch of inbreds. They posted some things on their newsgroup but linked to an African history newsgroup as well. Their facts were so wrong, it was pathetic. I tried to give Sherry the benefit of the doubt but now she has been exposed. It is time she moved on and out. To respond to her Neo-Nazi facts is to give credence to the cretins. I should have stuck to my rule of not trying to educate non-blacks on these subjects. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 12:17:33 (EDT)


Sherry=BLABLABLABLABLA!Shit falls from her mouth

Osiris
USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 06:00:33 (EDT)


Ive visited the vile stormfront page and have where she got most of her information and it without a dounbt white nazi propaganda.For a while thought she was for real and i thought her information was correct, but now she has shown her true colours and the fact we have people lke her worrying abuot what we think it shows they are afraid.This Sherry person has strenghtened my belief in black egypt.

Osiris
USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 05:10:50 (EDT)


Brother "MACK" wrote the following in response to my comments of the Shreey thing: Thutmos Turner and Osiris (you should consider calling yourself Ausar, Osiris is a Greek name), I am a strong advocate of unity for black people and there are many battles to fight. One of them is the intellectual battle. When we are in the intellectual battle field we must fight with intellect and not name calling; use name calling in the name calling game. Hence, please refrain from making vulgar and racist remarks, they do us no good. I will comment on the book later. I must run. Brother Mack, we are at war for our survival! We don't have the luxury of telling eah other to fight an intellectual war only! Besides, an intellectual war also contains "psychological warfare". I am engaging in this psychologic type of warfare just as the barbarians do. I have de-humanized the Sherry thing and exposed it naked for what it really is. The problem is simply that he/she/it is so repulsive,gross, and utterly heinous that most people are repulsed by the description of it. Any enemy of my people is nothing more than a heinous monstrosity! One cannot sit back in an armchair and conduct a pristine surgical war on the enemy. If you want to win, you will have to be wiling to spew both intellect and dirt. You have to get down in the dirt when you are waging WAR. If you attack one way and I attack another way and another brother attacks an even different way then the savages are attacked from all sides and lose. Stop tellling brothers that they should or should not attack savages like Sherry thing in this or that manner. We have so very few brothers willing to attack at all that we can ill afford to leave any stone un-turned. I have de-humanized her and other brothers have exposed its white supremist racist anti-Black goals. These are simply the same tactics they use on us daily. If you read my comments they concern muuch more that racist Sherry thing. Thutmos Turner

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 04:20:28 (EDT)


thanks for inlighting me on the history not found so fast thanks agian dru...

dru <dru3634@aol.com>
Age: 36, greensboro, nc USA - Saturday, October 16, 1999 at 03:16:32 (EDT)


Sherry, I actually thought that you were a scholar who believed what you had been told. However, when I found the webpage from which you made your quote that soon changed. If anyone wants to see the webpage it can be found under a white supremist group called "Storm front: White Nationalist resource page". The address to the book is http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/ I am not an Egyptologist but I am very critical of information that is being told to me. I suggest that my brothers and sisters go to this webpage and used it to refute the so called "FACTS" that were made. Thutmos Turner and Osiris (you should consider calling yourself Ausar, Osiris is a Greek name), I am a strong advocate of unity for black people and there are many battles to fight. One of them is the intellectual battle. When we are in the intellectual battle field we must fight with intellect and not name calling; use name calling in the name calling game. Hence, please refrain from making vulgar and racist remarks, they do us no good. I will comment on the book later. I must run.

Mack "Shekem" Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 18:42:13 (EDT)


CORRECTION. #12 should read on my previous post: Egyptian SOLDIERS and not Egyptian PHARAOHS.

egungun
USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 18:23:39 (EDT)


And while we are on all this talk of Egyptians and hair, etc. Here are some photos for those who are bothered by Sherry's rant. Some I have taken myself: (1. Statue of a first dynasty king, thought by many to be Narmer himself. Compare with Central African on right: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/narmerkungsan.jpg) (2. royal XVII figures Sequenre Tao and Nefertari: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/sequenefertari.jpg) (3. Masharta, son of Pinedjem I Dynasty XXI and modern day Somali: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/hamitic.jpg) (4. Nodjmet, wife of Herihor Dynasty XXI and Anut Tawi, priestess of Amen Dynasty XVIII: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/nodjmetawi.jpg) (5. Picture of Egyptians on right and Caucasian Semites on left: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/hebrewsinegypt.jpg) (6. From left to right, Nubian ruler Shabaka, Egyptian ruler Pepi, and Nubian ruler Taharka. Note they all look Africoid: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/kings.jpg) (7. Greco-Roman statues in Egyptian style. Notice the complete difference in facial features from Nubian/Egyptian statues: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/greekstatues.jpg) (8. Side view of Her-em-Akhet, the Sphinx, with obvious African prognathism: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/heremakhet2.jpg) (9. One of the Amenhetat pharaohs from the Cairo museum, first floor: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/amenhetat.jpg) (10. The heretic pharaoh, Akhenaten from the Cairo museum, first floor: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/akhenaten.jpg) (11. The pharaoh Menuhotep III, from the Cairo museum first floor: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/menuhotepiii.jpg) (12. Egyptian pharaohs up top. Nubian archers on bottom. Notice darker color is only difference with Nubians. Egyptians still do not look white or blond haired or blue eyed: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/Soldiers.jpg) (13. Hair wigs and combs of ancient Egyptians from Cairo museum, second floor--down the hall from the Tutankhamun room: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/blackhair.jpg) (14. Picture of boy king Tutankhamun, Cairo museum: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/tutankhamun.jpg) (15. Female ruler Hatshepsut, from Luxor museum: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/hatshepsut.jpg) (16. Ruler Senwosret II from 1897BC, Luxor Museum: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/senworsetii.jpg) (17. Ruler Amenhotep III from Luxor Museum crafted during Egypt's artistic realism age: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/amenhotep.jpg) (18. Modern day Egypto-Nubians on boat in Upper Egypt: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/nubians.jpg) (19. Massive statue of Amenhotep III and his chief consort Queen Tiyi, first floor of Cairo museum: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/amenhoteptiye.jpg) (20. A friend of mine posing with Egyptian youth in Luxor. Oh yes, he has dark reddish blond hair. Natives in Luxor nicknamed him "young Ramses." Compare with fallen statue of Ramses below from Cairo: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Quad/2854/omarnyoungramses.jpg) And there are many more. I hope everyone enjoys. Let Sherry rant and try to repaint ancient Egypt as she wishes. Small chance in the end she will be sucessful.

egungun
USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 18:19:53 (EDT)


Hello folks. I read Sherry and Carl's comments. As a graduate student in anthropology and history, I felt the need to respond at first. I even wrote about four pages taking notes from prior papers I have written in several classes and from various books. Then I decided against posting it. It didn't take me long to realize that Sherry is a fraud. She is no anthropolgist or true academian. I am in the academic world. I am well aware of what they are willing to say and what they are not willing to say. I think Mr. Clegg hit it on the head when he brought up her comments on Egyptians with "blue eyes" and of the Egyptians referring to people as "blacks." Racial identity in ancient Egypt is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard of. The Egyptians did not refer to peoples in such a matter at all. And blue eyed Egyptian khats are humorous at best. I've been to Egypt. I have been to the Museums of Luxor and Cairo and Aswan and more. If anything will convince you on the racial makeup of the ancient Egyptians, such trips will definitely do so. No the Egyptians may not have resembled West Africans---but they were Africoid nevertheless. Red hair on Ramses? So what? In my walks throughout the streets of Luxor I can find you many people with dark skin, Africoid features and reddish blond hair. Africans have no end to racial variance. Yet and still the blue eyes and blond hair Sherry speaks of are pure fabrication. Not even the most conservative Egyptologists would dare say such a thing. Neither would any real academian quote as secondary sources, books written in the early 1900s. I ran by some of Sherry's posts to a professor of mine, a white Frenchman who is a trained Egyptologist. Though he and I do not see eye to eye on many things regarding ancient Egypt, he laughed out loud at such notions as blonde haired and blue eyed Nordic Egyptians. I know several Egyptians personally, they would also laugh themselves silly at such notions or become upset. Sherry is a white supremacist folks. She is masking herself. She is not simply a white person with a different point of view. And her training is probably miniscule. She is a trouble maker. Ignore her. I would even call for blocking her. I have tussled with Egyptologists before, none would make some of the statements she is making. They are statements that I have heard and seen before on white supremacy sites, books, etc. Leave this argument alone and move on and let Sherry find somewhere else to place her anti-Semitic and anti-African rants. Don't believe her hype. Yeah Sherry. I been to Egypt. I study Afroasiatic languages. And my Middle Egyptian ain't too shabby. And I recognized you for what you were immediately. Even Mary Leftkowitz would go to war on you.

egungun
USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 16:31:19 (EDT)


I suggest that all of Sherrys past and future comments be deleted,we must think of future black generations and not let people like her stand in our way. "he who controls the past controls the future" Adolf Hitler.

Osiris
USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 14:57:01 (EDT)


This is the problem my brothers and sister (BLACK), this Sherry thing is operating with a calcified Pineal Gland and a Melanin deficiency while trying to tell us what we should think of ourselves. A very sad situation. It can't even comprehend simple sentences! I never said that Whites commit more crimes that Blacks in a blanket statement! I gave "specific categories" in whites dominate. This was done in response to the SAVAGE Sherry things barbaric racist attacks on our African people. Look for yourself....it was only a few messages ago! If you look through my statements you will find that I said the following: 100% of the serial killers are white males; 100% of the mass murderers are white males; 100% of the prosecutions for "CHILD MOLESTATION are white males; There are more crimes committed by white (non-hispanic) "JUVINILES" than are committed by all other races combined. There is nothing in these statements that say white people committ more crimes than Black other than again I repeat .... "WHITE (NON-HISPANIC)JUVENILES COMMITT MORE CRIMES THAN ALL OTHER RACES COMBINED! I said White JUVENILES Sherry thing! White Juveniles only! Once again... for the benefit of the Melanin deficient that can't comprehend...." whites and Black committ crimes (AS A WHOLE) equally IN PROPORTION TO THEIR PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION....Black are prosecuted and convicted in this racist white supremacy system. It can't understand simple English writing and yet the Sherry thing wants to tell Black people what we should think of ourselves. Again.....the opinion of what white people does not matter! We who are not still negroes have gone within. WITHIN! It is insanity to go to your oppressor and ask him what we should think of our own heritage. They have written and told historic lies for centuries. Their fear is that we no longer need them....thus the mad dog white supremist ramblings of the Sherry man/woman thing of blonde mummies and a white faced sphinx! Entertainment for the crimminally insane! No part of Mr. Clegg's thesis was answered by the Sherry thing. It was masterful! Oh, you people portraying yourselves as Egyptian should really stop. You are not fooling anybody! My brothers and sisters...I obviously take the direct approach to the enemies of our people. One who stands there and prays for his enemy while on the battle field (instead of fighting)....will simply be killed by the enemy. They are therefore irrelevant to the END GAME! Attack me and my people and you will indeed be attacked in kind! POWER IS "NEVER" RELINQUISHED VOLUNTARILY. NEVER! The world is indebted to us for the benefits of civilization. I use the word civilization loosely for racism white supremecy is not civilization....it is barbarism based on the opppression of the masses and thereby the suppression of true knowledge. Our Black people were building libraries the size of cities. We have savages like the Sherry thing building little cracker boxes on the corner and calling them libraries. The Sherry thing Savages have tied "EVERYTHING" to money and the worship thereof! This is not civilization...it is simply the best they can do! We are stuck with it until the Black masses begin to learn the truth printed on the pages of this website and our other great scholars. That which white people think of us is "irrelevant"! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 14:00:33 (EDT)


This is the problem my brothers and sister (BLACK), this Sherry thing is operating with a calcified Pineal Gland and a Melanin deficiency while trying to tell us what we should think of ourselves. A very sad situation. I can't even comprehend simple sentences! I never said that Whites commit more crimes that Blacks in a blanket statement! I gave "specific categories" in whites dominate. This was done in response to the SAVAGE Sherry things barbaric racist attacks on our African people. Look for yourself....it was only a few messages ago! If you look through my statements you will find that I said the following: 100% of the serial killers are white males; 100% of the mass murderers are white males; 100% of the prosecutions for "CHILD MOLESTATION are white males; There are more crimes committed by white (non-hispanic) "JUVINILES" than are committed by all other races combined. There is nothing in these statements that say white people committ more crimes than Black other than again I repeat .... "WHITE (NON-HISPANIC)JUVENILES COMMITT MORE CRIMES THAN ALL OTHER RACES COMBINED! I said White JUVENILES Sherry thing! White Juveniles only! Once again... for the benefit of the Melanin deficient that can't comprehend...." whites and Black committ crimes (AS A WHOLE) equally iIN PROPORTION TO THEIR PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION....Black are prosecuted and convicted in this racist white supremacy system. It can't understand simple English writing and yet the Sherry thing wants to tell Black people what we should think of ourselves. Again.....the opinion of what white people does not matter! We who are not still negroes have gone within. WITHIN! It is insanity to go to your oppressor and ask him what we should think of our own heritage. They have written and told historic lies for centuries. Their fear is that we no longer need them....thus the mad dog white supremist ramblings of the Sherry man/woman thing of blonde mummies and a white faced sphinx! Entertainment for the crimminally insane! No part of Mr. Clegg's thesis was answered by the Sherry thing. It was masterful! Oh, you people portraying yourselves as Egyptian should really stop. You are not fooling anybody! My brothers and sisters...I obviously take the direct approach to the enemies of our people. One who stands there and prays for his enemy while on the battle field (instead of fighting)....will simply be killed by the enemy. They are therefore irrelevant to the END GAME! Attack me and my people and you will indeed be attacked in kind! POWER IS "NEVER" RELINQUISHED VOLUNTARILY. NEVER! The world is indebted to us for the benefits of civilization. I use the word civilization loosely for racism white supremecy is not civilization....it is barbarism based on the opppression of the masses and thereby the suppression of true knowledge. Our Black people were building libraries the size of cities. We have savages like the Sherry thing building little cracker boxes on the corner and calling them libraries. The Sherry thing Savages have tied "EVERYTHING" to money and the worship thereof! This is not civilization...it is simply the best they can do! We are stuck with it until the Black masses begin to learn the truth printed on the pages of this website and our other great scholars. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 13:57:49 (EDT)


Oh deary me, I think this webpage has more to do with modern America than it does with ancient Egypt.I was born and raised in Egypt and it makes me laugh at you foreingers saying that our ancesters looked like Nordics or Ugandans. Id advise you to look at any pictures of of thhe Faiyum mummy portraits you can get your hands on. P.S.Please excuse any grammer or spelling erros as English is my third language after Coptic and Arabic.

Iskander Wagdi
Tanta, Egypt - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 09:30:38 (EDT)


Mack Audena, in reference to the "History of the White Race", the author's name is : Arthur Kemp. Curtis, I have replied to both Mr. Clegg and to Mr. Danquah.I have addressed each one of their claims within my posts. Though many of my posts are long, they were filled with much vital information, and Facts, and each "claim" was addressed. Im not sure who it was who claimed that the Egyption Writings about blacks does not exist, thats another lie on this board in order to try to distort and sway others away from the truth. The name of this Inscription is: The Inscription of Uni. James Henry Breasted, Professor of Egyptology and Oriental Studies@university of Chicago, interpreted them, thru his vast knowledge of the heiroglyphic writings. ** I am not thru with my references, I will have more to post here. Either half of you will research it, and / or half of you wont, and will just call me racial savage names, soley because the facts you are presented with will not "fit" your ideology of what you preach here. To those of you who take it a "step" further and research...you will see that the facts are simply FACTS, in which one cannot deny. I am preparing everything as I speak, I should have everything by tonight to post. Also, one more comment, its awfully funny how a person here threw it in my face that White people commit more crimes than blacks, yet when I offered to post the Federal Uniformed Crime Report, to disprove these false statements, suddenly, this person posted back on this board and said he forgot to mention....that blacks and whites commit the same equal amount of crimes...after he had said the opposite in his previous post. That in itself goes to show you many here have contridicted words they have said, and how hypocritical he really is....but hey, dont get all upset with me...that person said it, and knew he couldnt back his statements up, so again..he tried to "clean" it up, and when he had done so it made him look quite hypocritical. Anyway...I will hopefully have this entire Egyption FACT sheet completed tonight, once its done..you can use it to either further your study in Egyptology..or get pissed at me for FACTS that so far..no one here has been able to answer.

Sherry
Philadelphia, Pa USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 06:57:18 (EDT)


Look Sherry thing: Nobody cares if you are male or female. I am beginning to think you are a bit of both. Perhaps you will check it out....go ahead and take a peak....perhaps you can still be helped! You have shown your white feathers and you have been "CUT OFF". The moderator of this site has taken the intellectual road and "CUT YOU OFF", and myself and others have taken a different road and again "CUT YOU OFF". You have recieved a legendary "ASS BEATING" and you have shown your true colors (white supremacy). All of your racist ilk say the same thing about us (BLACK PEOPLE) trying to make ourselves feel good by claiming our ancient Egyptian ancestry as Black. You (SAVAGES) say it with contempt as if that were something to be ashamed of and like you can hurt us with that statement. The truth is that savages can't understand the fact and can't stand the inescapable fact that discovering and claiming our rightful heritage does indeed make us feel good. But more than make us feel good.....IT MAKES US POWERFUL! A Black person that knows who they are is the most powerful force on the planet. Of course your savage brain cannot understand this so I will not try to explain further. You will just have to live with your true FEAR of this fact. Frankly I am tired of kicking and seeing your ass kicked (cut-off). You are a bore (with your blonde mummy and white face Sphinx ramblings)! You were invited to respond to the moderator's documentation but you can't! It does not matter anyway! It matters not what white people think! The only thing that matters is what we think of ourselves!!!! This is what you and savages like you really fear. I will not even envite you to respond to the moderator because your white opinion does not matter! Your legendary "ASS BEATING" and "CUTTING OFF" has brought a good reward however. It made the moderator Mr. Clegg respond to your white racist savage insanity with many particular facts that may not have been exposed to many of us for some time to come. Even now I am researching more details from some of his references. Your remarks about South Africa were true to your racist form in that South Africa was one of the most repressive and murderoursly BARBARIC systems of white murder the world has ever known. Lastly, you don't need to post any source of crime statistics......I NAMED MY SOURCE AND ANYBODY CAN GO TO THE FBI SITE. Here is another stat I forgot to mention: Blacks and whites commit crime "EQUALLY" in proportion to their percentage of the population! Black ppeople are simply prosecuted and convicted disproportionally (by your racism white supremacy system). Were were embracing the banks of the Nile while you were still drinking blood out of the skulls of your conquereed dead (Marcus Garvey). The only thing that matters is what we think of ourselvelves.....and not some white female with male genitals or the other way around. The only thing that matters is what we think of ourselves!!!!!!! This is what the savages fear....that we will see and feel the same thing our magnificent Egyptian etc. ancestors felt of themselves! Your fear is that when a great anough mass of Black people find out who they really are and start to think like Black people white supremacy will END.....and it will. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 03:01:23 (EDT)


I am ashamed at you Sherry. I am a white male and It obvious that Egypt was Black. I am an athropologist who studied in Egypt for many years and I can tell you that you are telling lies. In a couple of years all of those that don't believe will eat their words!

William Kurd
USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 01:47:22 (EDT)


Brother Curtis, there is something for us all to learn in these happenings. I will stand up and be the first to say that I have much left to learn in life. However, I can claim to know a few things which I can share with you. I am a professional person that has mastered several careers. To be successful, one main ingredient is courtesy! I deal and interract with white people continuously in my work as I am self employeed. I use the work sir many times when they are trying to obtain me as a customer and when I don't have to many times. I have no hate for white people! I do have hate for the barbaric and savage system of racism/white supremacy we are all living under. Curtis.....we are at war! If you want to win a war you must be willing to WAR! Think of the implications of the word.....WAR! WAR! WAR! When you are attacked, you don't pray for your enemy and wish him the best like we have been taught (by our oppressors) to do! Quite to the contrary....to win you must attack and lash out at your enemy with the same force he is using. I am not advocating killing all white people or anything like that. However.....we must leanr the art of war o many fronts. This includes words. When you are attacked in WAR....you must be willing to ATTACK (if you want to win). If one does not win the war....one will be enslaved. We as a people are enslaved today under the system of racism/white supremacy! Curtis, you should fight in your manner, I I shall fight in mine! However, we should be figting the same thing and not each other! You have fallen into that white supremist trap of making war on your own people. Notice that I have not attacked you and I won't! Spend your energy on the enemy! The savages dumping cocaine in our communities; the savages building and enslaving our people in prisons instead of schools, etc, etc. My responce will always be the same.....PROTECT! When my people are attacked, I will in kind attack with the same energy as the enemy and more! If this makes me base....than so be it! "BE BLACK, BUY BLACK THINK BLACK AND ALL ELSE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF". THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 01:18:12 (EDT)


Brother Curtis, there is something for us all to learn in these happenings. I will stand up and be the first to say that I have much left to learn in life. However, I can claim to know a few things which I can share with you. I am a professional person that has mastered several careers. To be successful, one main ingredient is courtesy! I deal and interract with white people continuously in my work as I am self employeed. I use the work sir many times when they are trying to obtain me as a customer and when I don't have to many times. I have no hate for white people! I do have hate for the barbaric and savage system of racism/white supremacy we are all living under. Curtis.....we are at war! If you want to win a war you must be willing to WAR! Think of the implications of the word.....WAR! WAR! WAR! When you are attacked, you don't pray for your enemy and wish him the best like we have been taught (by our oppressors) to do! Quite to the contrary....to win you must attack and lash out at your enemy with the same force he is using. I am not advocating killing all white people or anything like that. However.....we must leanr the art of war o many fronts. This includes words. When you are attacked in WAR....you must be willing to ATTACK (if you want to win). If one does not win the war....one will be enslaved. We as a people are enslaved today under the system of racism/white supremacy! Curtis, you should fight in your manner, I I shall fight in mine! However, we should be figting the same thing and not each other! You have fallen into that white supremist trap of making war on your own people. Notice that I have not attacked you and I won't! Spend your energy on the enemy! The savages dumping cocaine in our communities; the savages building and enslaving our people in prisons instead of schools, etc, etc. My responce will always be the same.....PROTECT! When my people are attacked, I will in kind attack with the same energy as the enemy and more! If this makes me base....than so be it! "BE BLACK, BUY BLACK THINK BLACK AND ALL ELSE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF". THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Friday, October 15, 1999 at 01:16:36 (EDT)


To my dear Black brothers and sisters: My comments are directed toward you. The barbaric racist SAVAGES like Sherry (who I deeply suspect to be an white boy too cowardly to identify there true selves). Notice the reference to blaming white males. White women for the most part don't partake in such "direct" comfrontation in this manner). This so-called Sherry "THING". Is LESS THAN sub-human. Since the savage mentioned the moderator a few days ago, Mr. Clegg proceeded to give the savage a thorough ass whipping the likes I have never seen before. Bravo Mr. Clegg! The savage barbaric racist Sherry thing asked for facts and it got a beating from the site moderator that is legendary. This is notice for visits from other savages to beware. You are not dealing with negroes here.....you are dealing with BLACK people that know who we are and WHAT (SAVAGES) you are! My original comments were designed to bring out what the Sherry thing really is....a racist barbaric savage with a deficiency of the neuro peptide MELENIN and a calcified Pineal Gland (and probably no upper lip). The Sherry things comments are little more than entertainment for the crimminally insane! The SAVAGE BARBARIC Sherry thing wanted facts so try these on for size since it wants to denegrade our mother Africa with negative and distorted white lies. Facts: 100% of the serial killers are white males; 100% of the mass murderers are white males; 100% of the prosecutions for CHILD MOLESTATION are white males; whites account for approx. 90% of the cocain usage in the United States; There are more crimes committed by white (non-hispanic) juviniles than are commited by ALL OTHER RACES COMBINED. Source = FBI crime statistics! This is not to say that all whites are killers nor are they all bad people. However, lets face the facts! The only way the white race can survive is to oppress other races......so savages like the Sherry thing believe. These ramblings about blonde mummies are the works of the insane. Brother Clegg gave the Sherry thing an ass whipping I will never forget. Back to the caves with the Caucazoid Sherry thing. Why does it not go to its white supremist sites and ramble on about blonde mummies.....for the same reason the media attacks Blacks daily. They are all too concerned about what we think of ourselves. "BE BLACK, BUY BLACK AND THINK BLACK AND ALL ELSE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF". Oh, one last comment to th SAVAGE BARBARIAN MELENIN deficient Sherry thing....since you spoke negatively about Africans cutting off the clits of women......the intellectual beating you recieved from the moderator and others have effective CUT YOUR CLIT!!!!!!!!! You are not Black and therefore ---YOUR WHITE SUPREMIST OPINION DOES NOT MATTER HERE! THUTMOS TURNER Thutmos Turner

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 22:13:16 (EDT)


As a Black Brother I am ashamed of what I have read here. I am not pro-black nor pro-white, I am pro-people.all people.I must conclude from visiting this site that I do not agree with how everyone has attacked this Shery person. I noticed in the articles here that my brothers have attacked her racially with words. I also have noticed that she was attacked with racial slurs in pertaining to the word savage, up your cunt, slice her clit. I have come to the conclusion that my brothers will get no where with this attacks towards people. If you want to spread the word of our Mother Africa and her heritage, do it constructively, not by attacking and accusing an individual of making statements that she never did make.I am an anthropology student here in New York. I am of Nubian descent, for my mother speaks in our native tongue. I will contribute to the fact about the Cairo Museum,in the land of Cairo Egypt. This is true, not dishonesty of the facts that Shery had stated here. No harm or offense to my brothers is meant to be done by defending Shery, if we all are in search of the truth and heritage and culture we must not leave out many of the honest remarks and facts that this person Shery has contributed. I have many family in Africa.Has any brother here ever traveled to the Motherland? If any has my brothers, you would know that this Shery person is not biased, nor supremist, these are not fabrications of truth, she speaks the truth of what ancient history holds of Egypt and africa.In response to my brothers who have accused this person of obtaining supremist material, for that is in error my brothers. My relatuives of young and old in our motherland of Africa today have passed down thru the years remembrants of our heritage, and it is not the stories and accusations that I have heard my brothers here speak of. I not sure were you obtain your historical information brothers, but it is the opposite of what you preach here.Iand my family are from Africa and its not the way you are fabricating it to be nor is it the way you have told it to be in the ancient days. Learn more of your correct history and that truth will set you free my brothers.How do I get a link to my website here.I want to link it so you may learn your proper ancestor belonging , history, if you are of African descent.Peace to all

Mohammed Bekka
Age: 32, New York City, NY USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 22:00:41 (EDT)


Sherry, I was looking for the book you made reference to called Europa: History of the White Race and I couldn't find it. Did you say it was written by Arthur Kemp or Kmep? In any case I tried both names. Could you give me some more information on how and where to find it?

Mack Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Pittsburgh, PA USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 21:39:34 (EDT)


Alafia, Hetepu, Mikiyo, Hujambo, Malecum and wassup! Again my heart is saddened at the amount of hatred revealed in this site. This is directed to Sherry, but not meant to attack you. Sherry, reading your posts and trying to figure out the motivation behind your words, I am reminded of three Ifa odus. The first one goes like, "Guard well against dishonorable acts that may ruin your reputation" and "Learn to act more and react less; reacting based on the ways of others leads to misfortune." When Thutmoses supplied his first remarks, you reacted to his statements in an dishonorable way. By doing this, you lead this dialogue to misfortune and ruined your reputation in the same breath. However, it was not just Thutmoses statements which initiated this rivalry. No, it was by your own design to openly and biasedly confront those, who views strayed away from yours. Such is not the way of a peaceful person. "The truthful person is a peaceful person. Liars are restless people. If we are not able to speak the truth, it is best to keep quiet." I have heard you many times call out those who are Afrikan-centered as supremacist. Why? Do you not understand the Afrikan-centered paradigm? I care not of asserting myself as supreme, I only care of reclaiming my truthful past for proper direction towards the future. The race issue was raised by you, in your rhetorical way of debasing African people, which is insulting my ancestors and judging them, according to your Western European standards. Are you saying Western thought and values are, in essence, the ruler by which all the world's population must be measured? You speak of falsifying evidence, but you have yet to prove the pre-dynastic and early dynastic "Egyptians" were White. Could this be your BELIEF? I believe so because you have yet to address my questions sufficiently and conclusively. I know the theme and position of my assertations, however, you cease to drift precariously about throwing out highly debatable "FACT". If you were truly studied, you would know many of the points you made as Egyptian customs are also relevant to the rest of Africa. But as it has been implied, you fail to make this connection because of your Eurocentric education and scholarship loyality, so you present "disconnected facts and figures" not true for Europe, as well as, the Africans you belittled. Give not the myth of a Mediterranean people, one you can not conclude to be truth. Were is the evidence? Besides no whole ethnic (geographic race) group vanishes from the Earth. You actually betrayed your BELIEF by stating Egypt could not have been an African invention because look at the rest of Africa. Have you honestly studied the rest of Africa? It seems unlikely based upon your limited interpretations of African culture. As my grandma, "Speak what you know, tell the truth and shame the devil". Nothing you have said amounts to its worth of print, especially your quotes from white supremacist "scholars?". Many of which were biased. I can speak because my academic career has so far allowed me to go into the bowels of White Supremacy and its notions as a learning student. Many of my professors, who have received fellowships, endowments and have published their research, have said some of most supremacist notions regarding their research during lecture classes. Many, I respected and most, who do not perceived themselves to be SUPREMACIST. I can and will debate with you anything concerning Kemet, be my guest. I leave my e-mail just for that. No, I will never say I know all the answers and will never present information I consider to be untrue, whether the proponent of this information is white or black. I am still learning. Aren't we all? Your plan was come on here and see "what the niggers are saying and thinking and then to crush their narrow-minded and mythic fantasies into oblivion." However, sister, not all of us are just blaming the "WHITE MAN"; we are serious researchers and well-read, who will not allow ourselves to be pimped around by the Mainstream and Hollywood inspired beliefs of Africa. This is the purpose of African-centered studies, thought and scholars: to make sure our (African people's) best interests are given attention and discourse concerning us (African people)is presented without any hinderance of White Cultural and Intellectual Hegemony. They have declared INTELLECTUAL WARFARE and we are prepared to respond. Odabo!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minnneapolis, MN USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 20:41:08 (EDT)


Sherry, I am slowly and carefully reading through your "facts." I will respond to them in detail. It saddens me that you have once again chosen to ignore the positive and detailed writings of Mr. Clegg & Mr. Danquah, and have chosen instead to respond to Thutmose Turner. In your response you condemned all of us here. Although your wording is not as vulgar as tuts, your message is full of disdain and is quite condescending.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 20:13:37 (EDT)


No, I am not a male, I am a female. Secondly,absolutely none here "beat my ass" like you said. The only thing that this site has proven, is the lack of knowledge that all of you have. Its has also shown all of your insecurities, self-hatred, and the desperate acts of trying to claim an ancient history to be that of your own, to try and "lift" up your spirits, to the world/cyber-readers, to make it look like something your not, and have never been. As for this Federal crime report, where are you really getting your sources for crime stats? I have copies of the Federal uniformed crime report, and I would be more than happy to post it here, so I can show anyone of the cyber-readers who enter here how you people distort the truth and lie, and yes...blame the "white" man for your own miseries. Would you like me to post it? I will. Your statements that white people commit the most crimes, are bogus.With ALL of your FALSE accusations that you post here and claim them to be true, I can give justified REFERENCES, unbiased REFERENCES, that are TRUE FACTS, and it would show you people for the liars that you really are. If thats not enough, other people can see, simply by reading your posts that you are the real racists, and whenever someone comes here you dispense your "black" attitude along with racial slurs, name-calling and the typical blaming of another race for your problems, type of come-back. Then...if something does not fit your "idealogy", no facts are presented from YOUR side to clarify or justify anything you have said, instead, you throw hideous racial slurs, and lie some more. However, I will make sure that I post the "Federal Uniformed Crime Report", so all cyber-readers can see what liars you are, and they can see how you and other people distort the truth and put "words" into other peoples mouths. Just think about it... * I guess one day, blacks will claim the remainder of South Africa to be a civilization that they built and maintained, and ruled as well oneday...and use the same brain-washing mind tactic that you are so desperately trying to use here in regards to Egypt. Your only making fools of yourself. The solid concrete evidence shows...Ancient Egypt was not Black, as much as you and the rest of your fantasy world would like to believe...so continue in your lies if it "boosts" your pride...for thats all its accomplishing, because, others know the truth in regards to Egypt.

sherry
Philadelphia, Pa USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 16:16:40 (EDT)


Sherry has brought up some facts, or at least what she believes to be facts. Although I disagree with her, I will not attack her person. Quite a bit of what she wrote I already know to be in error. The rest, well it will force me to dig deeper. She serves a purpose; think of her as one more motivation to look into our history even more deeply. In that light, she is a tool. Therefore, she should not be ridiculed, called names, or in any other way disrespected. I believe that she believes the way she does because (1) she is trusting in the works of biased "scholars," (2) this society perpetuates the notion of white supremacy & it clouds her judgment, and (3) imbeciles like Thutmose Turner behave so contemptuously that (in her mind) it reinforces her stereotypical views. She is a victim of this society as are we(though in a much different manner). Let us debate cordially, and seek the truth. To Sherry, I would suggest that you address your responses to Mr. Danquah, Mr. Clegg and Mr. Audena. Although the manner/nature of "Mr. Turner's" attacks were unfair, your responses gravitated towards his foolish remarks, instead of towards the scientific and scholarly remarks of the abovementioned men. As for "Mr. Turner," (call me a conspiracy theorist, but) maybe he isn't really black. Though some of the things he says may be true, his behaviour is so vulgar and his manner so "stereotypical" that I can easily see a racist white person 'playing the role.' Sadly however, reason dictates that this "man" may be a real person, and he may actually be as base as he portrays himself. Curtis.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 15:57:35 (EDT)


Sherry you are clearly disillusioned. There were no racial writings, it was ethnic. Can you read Mdw Ntr? I don't think you can. You keep insisting that the Kauma hated Blacks when, as Mr. Clegg II informed you, Kemet means black. All your so called evidence of racial writings is based on Breasted. Once again Mr. Clegg II informed you that "Breasted, as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as "Black,". Mr. Clegg II goes on to quote the late great Diop and tells you that "Because of this inscription which marked off the border between the Meriotic Sudan and Egypt after the troubles of the Twelfth Dynasty, it is often concluded that this separated two distinct races, that the stela barred 'Blacks' from entering Egypt. Such a conclusion is a grievous error, for the term "Black" was never used by the Egyptians to distinguish the Meriotic Sundanese from themselves." You know what I don't think you Mr. Clegg posting. Furthermore from your own reference- John Baker's Race it states on page 517 "Our knowledge of the skulls [of Egypt] is largely due to the studies of a British anthropologist, G.M. Morant...In addition, whole skeletons and hair from mummies have been available to many investigators." Now I suggest you go and read my post. Yes, the book says that "the Egyptians skulls can be distinguished from the Negrid ones," but if we look on page 625 Negrid skulls are typically found in Zaire, Senegal, Souther Sudan, and Rhodesia. The Egyptians skulls, as I said before, were Aethiopid which are typically found in Ethiopia. The rest concerning hair you can find in my post. Please read before posting again. Poor child, I am almost sorry for you. I know it is hard to give up something that you have been taught to believe all your life. Are the Egyptologist racist? Probably not all of them but most of them are probably biased. When one approaches research already having assumptions in her mind, she tends to seek out evidence that supports her belief no matter how small; she will also tend to unconsciously ignore evidence that is in opposition to her belief regardless of how significant. As for your book Europa, from what you said it is clearly the work of a white supremist, similar to the work of Mary Leftkowitz. You have said nothing to impress us. We have heard your lies told in numerous ways. You have no proof; no evidence. Except it. Kemet was the land of the Black people.

Mack aka Shekem aka Menes aka Narmer
Age: 20, Pittsburgh, PA USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 15:27:45 (EDT)


To my dear Black brothers and sisters: My comments are directed toward you. The barbaric racist SAVAGES like Sherry (who I deeply suspect to be an white boy too cowardly to identify there true selves). Notice the reference to blaming white males. White women for the most part don't partake in such "direct" comfrontation in this manner). This so-called Sherry "THING". Is LESS THAN sub-human. Since the savage mentioned the moderator a few days ago, Mr. Clegg proceeded to give the savage a thorough ass whipping the likes I have never seen before. Bravo Mr. Clegg! The savage barbaric racist Sherry thing asked for facts and it got a beating from the site moderator that is legendary. This is notice for visits from other savages to beware. You are not dealing with negroes here.....you are dealing with BLACK people that know who we are and WHAT (SAVAGES) you are! My original comments were designed to bring out what the Sherry thing really is....a racist barbaric savage with a deficiency of the neuro peptide MELENIN and a calcified Pineal Gland (and probably no upper lip). The Sherry things comments are little more than entertainment for the crimminally insane! The SAVAGE BARBARIC Sherry thing wanted facts so try these on for size since it wants to denegrade our mother Africa with negative and distorted white lies. Facts: 100% of the serial killers are white males; 100% of the mass murderers are white males; 100% of the prosecutions for CHILD MOLESTATION are white males; whites account for approx. 90% of the cocain usage in the United States; There are more crimes committed by white (non-hispanic) juviniles than are commited by ALL OTHER RACES COMBINED. Source = FBI crime statistics! This is not to say that all whites are killers nor are they all bad people. However, lets face the facts! The only way the white race can survive is to oppress other races......so savages like the Sherry thing believe. These ramblings about blonde mummies are the works of the insane. Brother Clegg gave the Sherry thing an ass whipping I will never forget. Back to the caves with the Caucazoid Sherry thing. Why does it not go to its white supremist sites and ramble on about blonde mummies.....for the same reason the media attacks Blacks daily. They are all too concerned about what we think of ourselves. "BE BLACK, BUY BLACK AND THINK BLACK AND ALL ELSE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF". Oh, one last comment to th SAVAGE BARBARIAN MELENIN deficient Sherry thing....since you spoke negatively about Africans cutting off the clits of women......the intellectual beating you recieved from the moderator and others have effective CUT YOUR CLIT!!!!!!!!! You are not Black and therefore ---YOUR WHITE SUPREMIST OPINION DOES NOT MATTER HERE! THUTMOS TURNER Thutmos Turner

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 13:29:47 (EDT)


First of all, I would like to clarify, that I am not a part of any "white supremist" group, as you have claimed, only when I confronted you with FACTS, that you could not prove wrong..you tried to use the "race" game with me.Secondly, I find Ancient Egyptian history very intriguing, that does not make me "biased" for finding it very interesting, and it surely doesn't make me "biased" to speak of my knowledge or to speak of facts, that I have aqcuired throughout my years of research and studying. What I have noticed here is a "pattern", a "pattern" from black supremisists like yourself, who enjoy indulging in ridicule, and automatically claiming "white" people are racist for presenting the FACTS. I am not here to "convert" any of you who read or respond to my posts, I am here for intelligent sharing of knowledge, and perhaps mature debate. I am not amazed at your response, nor the responses of others, because you are afterall…if not most of you, black supremists. ***Heres a point to keep in mind : It would be quite difficult for the "white man" to "hide" or "rob" anyone of any color, when it comes to ancient Egyptian civilization. I say this thru knowledge and experience, first hand experience. There are to many artifacts, writings on the pyramids' walls, on scripts, etc.. that were left behind from ancient Egyptians, that are clearly "undisputeable", and would be merely Impossible to "cover" anything up. It just couldn't be done. I have a question for you…do you feel that the Cairo Museum, Cairo,Egypt, is racist? They have many, many, many, artifacts there…which are startling"white" as you have claimed them not to be. You would be surprised. Like I mentioned in my previous post…statues of great kings with blue eyes…etc, etc. Also, as an Egyptologist, I have come across numerous fabricated stories and distortions of history on this board made by black supremists.Not only are you holding onto "lies" but you are trying to give your "people" a "false" sense of how things happened and what was what. Most of these references I have found are FICTIOUS, However, I see your game here. You try to give references and so call quote things that actually don't exist. You are doing this to try to expand to your own benefit.So, stop lying, and give REAL references, that people can use and look up, and stop giving fictious accounts and fabricating history to fit your need (s). Now, as for the "savage" comments that were made, that was not directed to you. That was directed to man named Turner, from Compton, who resorted to name calling and bashing. However, once again, when the truth was spoken of Africa today and yesterday, and the practices amongst numerous tribes…you "bashed" me for it..and why? Because it is the truth. There is nothing racist or biased about the truth..and facts. I also see how you tried to "clean" it up by stating that the severing a a female child genitals, is a religious practice. ..and it may be…however, it is a quite harsh, way of practicing tribal rituals or what have you. For the racial stereo-typing that I have read on this board….towards white people. I see in almost all of these posts, where ,many have posted rejecting racism towards blacks, and black history, etc, etc.. How about the facts that it was your people who sold you into slavery…how about and what about the Irish immigrants who were slaves? Black slaves were treated better than the Irish slaves. Then what about this stereo-typing of generalizing all white people as a "whole" when it comes to slavery and the owning of slaves? TThat'sa very hypocritical statement in itself. I can say that because, many black citizens owned black slaves in america, with the highest amount of black slave owners in the south. When my family came here, they didn't own ANY slaves. My family came to America and endured a long journey over-seas onm a crowded ship as well, and as poor as they were…they didn't come over here in the "Titanic". Instead of getting into a long drawn out family history, I will say that they worked hard for what they had, and never had the help of any "minorities". Also, I never said or made any statements to the affect that black people havent attributed anything, as I was accused of. Please re-read my posts, and you will see how a couple people here simply, made this up. You will not find anything, in any of my posts that makes such claims. Also, I never said that "nahasi" means "black. You said I said that, and I didn't. I'm not sure whether you have purposely said I said that to distort the truth and facts that I have posted or if you have honestly mis-read my posts. However, I never said "nhasi" means "black".Also, at the pyramids and excavaction sites, there are Egyptians, arabs, etc…all people of color who work along side of "white" Egyptologists…are you insinuating that ALL of them , including present modern day Egyptians are "covering - up " this so called black history within Egypt as well? That is absurd. Why would modern day Egyptians and white people work together to cover up Egyptian history??? It makes no sense, besides, if YOU were HONESTLY familiar with Egyptian history and Modern Egyptians today, YOU would know that they are very RESPECTFUL towards their dead, and their history, and they would most likely FORBID anyone into Cairo who would disrespect or distort the truth of ancient history…it would be a complete INSULT to the modern day Egyptian society.Their respect for the dead is held very high, and they would not stand for disrespectful anthropologists in distorting the truth of history like YOU and many on this board have CLAIMED. Now, to get back into the purpose of this board again, (instead of answering to all of those who have FALSELY accused me of saying things and putting WORDS in my mouth) lets discuss ancient Egypt, with facts, not personal claims and opinions. Below is a section taken from Arthur Kmep's book, which sums up a lot of the lies, distortions, and accusations made in regards to ancient Egypt being black. I can honestly use him for a reference, due to my first hand experience in and with studying Egypt. This guest book does not allow pictues to be posted in with messages so, the pictures that are with this section I was unable to post. If anyone would like for me to email them to you, so you can observe them first hand, let me know and I will email them to you. I recommend that all of you who have responded to my posts , to leave an email address for me, and I will send them to you, you will be quite surprised…its well worth taking a look at. This way, it will give you all the opportunity to take the claims and facts made on both sides of the coin, and then see for yourself….and you will see as I have told you..there is absolutely no way to claim that others have distorted ancient Egyptian history in any way shape or form, like I said, once you see, you will see that it is impossible to do so, like you once had claimed. Read below for the vital information: The most common lies and distortions currently being made by the Afro-centric Black supremacists are dealt with graphically on this page: readers interested in the true full story of Ancient Egypt are invited to read Chapter 8: Egypt, of the book "Europa: The History of the White Race" ============== Before we start, a few general points about Egypt: The first thing that must always be borne in mind about ancient Egypt is that there were Semites and Blacks present in that country from the very beginning. No-one claims the contrary - in fact, this was the very reason why that civilization fell, as it was eventually overrun by Blacks and Semites - if there had been none of those racial groupings present, the Egyptian civilization would still be going! What this means is that of course there are going to be images of Nonwhites in Egyptian art. Art after all, usually reflected the society of the time, so it is not unusual to find Black or Semitic types in Egyptian art. What has to be borne in mind though, is the date WHEN these portraits or art pieces were made. The Black supremacists have a few Egyptian busts which they use to try and prove that Egyptians were all Black: but these busts were virtually all made during the 25th dynasty (730 BC- 633 BC), that of the colored king Takhara. That dynasty was a colored one - and also, of course, the LAST Egyptian dynasty. This colored dynasty was the result of racial integration which diluted the original White population of Egypt which then led to the disappearance of the Egyptian culture. For details, please read chapter 8 of Europa: The History of the White Race (see link above or below). So, busts made during the 25th dynasty, or the last dynasty, would of course reflect the society of that time - colored - even if they were making statues of kings of older times. So before anyone accepts any "Negroid" featured Egyptian bust as being an accurate representation of Egyptian society, find out exactly WHEN that bust was made. This means that a bust of say, an Egyptian king not made in his time, cannot be counted upon as being an accurate reflection of that particular king's features. So a bust of say, Menes (also known as Narmer), the very first Egyptian pharaoh (3100 BC), which was made during the 25th dynasty, (730 BC) will most certainly not be an accurate representation of what the king actually looked like. It is most likely that a sculptor working in the 25th dynasty would, if he was making a bust of an ancient pharaoh, make it look like the pharaoh of his own time. And he would probably not even know what the original king looked like in any event. This dating technique is actually quite logical, and as long as it is remembered and applied, it is very easy to disprove the Black supremacists' lies: most of the busts and artwork to which they refer dates from the 25th dynasty, (730 BC to 633 BC) which was colored, and which also collapsed precisely because it was not an original White dynasty. It was the very last Egyptian dynasty, representing the final fall of what remained of the original White civilization. It is thus very ironic that the Black supremacists use the 25th dynasty - which represents the final fall of the White Egyptian civilization - to try and prove that the Egyptians were Black! The very thing which destroyed the White Egyptians, being used to try and prove they were not White! LIE 1: "Narmer, or Menes, the first King of Egypt, was Black" This nasty little lie is based on a Negroid bust which the Black supremacists claim is that of Menes (also known as Narmer), the almost legendary first king of Egypt who united the land and started the First Dynasty around the year 3100 BC. This Negroid bust which is used to "prove" that Menes/Narmer was Black, looks like this: The Black supremacists use this Negroid featured bust, which clearly dates from the 25th colored dynasty (circa 700 BC), to try and show that Menes, who started the first dynasty (some 2300 years earlier), was a Black. What is the truth? In fact, there are NO images of Menes/Narmer dating from his time at all! The closest we have to any indication of what Menes he looked like is contained in something called the "Palette of Narmer." The Palette of Narmer, which has been dated at about 3000 BC, was a palette used for preparing cosmetics, and has engraved on its surface, events from reign of Menes. The palette was found in the temple at Hierakonpolis, an important center of Upper Egypt. One side of the palette shows Narmer/Menes with the white crown of Upper Egypt and the other shows him with the red crown of Lower Egypt. Menes is shown striking down one of his enemies, and on the other side, he is the largest in a row of people carrying standards, probably representing divisions of his territory or army and reviews decapitated victims, and as a bull breaking into a walled town and trampling a victim. From this Palette, which is the only (almost) contemporary to his time, image of Narmer/Menes, it can be seen that it is impossible to claim that he was Black. While the image on the Palette was not drawn with intent to emphasize racial features, it is nonetheless very clear that it looks ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like the fake Negroid "face of Narmer" which the Black supremacists claim to be his image. This is even more apparent on the smaller of the two images of Menes/Narmer on the palette - the one on the "back" side. Here is the Palette of Narmer/Menes, first the original Palette and then a drawing taken from the Palette, which makes the images clearer. Left: First ("front") side and right: second ("back") side and below: a sketch of the detail. Note the profile of Narmer/Menes: he is the character shown striking an enemy on the "front" side; and on the "back" side, the largest of the figures in the upper panel : most certainly NOT Negroid! While the Palette of Narmer/Menes was obviously not drawn to highlight racial types, we can show the race of Narmer in yet another way: he was first mentioned in Egyptian history by Manetho, the 3rd century BC Egyptian historian, who wrote that Menes had seven successors in his line: Manetho grouped all seven successors together as being from the same place, obviously of the same race: and no-one disputes the race of the 2nd to 8th pharaohs of Egypt - they were all White. There is one more object which is supposed to depict Narmer - the so-called Macehead of the Scorpion King, but its date is unknown, and no-one knows for sure if it indeed represents Narmer or not. In any event, the figure on it is certainly not Black. The Macehead of the Scorpion King shows in one of its upper panels a procession of military standards surmounted by the emblems of various names of provinces. Facing in the opposite direction, is another procession of standards having bows similarly attached, but only one complete standard is preserved. The meaning is clear, the Scorpion king claimed victories over the Nine Bows, i.e. the various people in and on the borders of Egypt, which included the Semites and Blacks, or Nubians. Based on all available evidence, it is therefore impossible to claim that Narmer/Menes was Black: the only contemporary image of this first Egyptian king indicates that he was a White: and all his successors were White. Lie 2: "The Sphinx has the face of a Black man and the flat nose of that monument was deliberately shot off by Napoleon's troops in 1802" Most certainly not: the features on the Sphinx are clearly of the White king Khafre, upon whose order the Sphinx was built. The Sphinx was built by the great Pharaoh Khafre, fourth king (circa 2603-2578 BC) of the 4th Dynasty of Egypt . He built one of the pyramids of Giza; the Great Sphinx nearby is a likeness of the king. (Source: "Khafre," Microsoft Encarta 98 Encyclopedia. 1993-1997 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.) That this is so, can be seen very clearly from another surviving bust of Khafre: A portrait of Khafre, to be found in the Encarta Encyclopedia: this is what the Sphinx looked like originally: certainly not Negroid. The Sphinx has suffered damage as a result of thousands of years of sand abrasion: and was used for target practice by occupying Nonwhite Islamic Arabs in the 14th century. Nonwhite Arabs shot off its nose some 400 years before Napoleon got there: the French troops did not touch the Sphinx. Lie 3: "According to the Egyptians themselves in their Book of the Dead, they came from the south of Egypt. The ancient Egyptians had always held the south in high reverence. The Sudan was commonly called the Land of the Gods. " The Book of the Dead deals exclusively with religious rituals about the dead and the afterlife, and does not refer to the origins of the Egyptians. The Black supremacists try and pull this one off in the hope that it will be highly unlikely that most people will actually get hold of a full translation of the Book of the Dead and read it - so they make claims which they hope most people will not bother to check out. But even a reference to "south" Egypt in ancient Egyptian terms is not a reference to the Black areas of the Sudan or Ethiopia. The city of Thebes, for example, was regarded as being in "south" of Egypt by the Egyptians themselves: and it is a long way from Ethiopia or the Sudan. Further south than Thebes was officially called Nubia, and never the "south". To repeat: the "south" of ancient Egypt was never in Sudan, or Ethiopia: see this map of the geographic areas of the ancient kingdoms to see exactly where the boundaries were situated (taken from the Encarta Encyclopedia 1998): Only by the time of END of the Third Kingdom (1070 BC) did the Egyptian boundaries extend into only the very north of the Sudan: and this inclusion of partly Black population is reflected in the changing racial makeup of the Egyptian population: by 800 BC, all the Egyptian Whites had vanished, absorbed into the Nonwhite mass. The Sudan is only referred to, in some sources, as the land of the Gods because the powerful red headed White Pharaoh, Ramses II, built a massive temple there after he occupied those lands and defeated the Blacks in that land. Lie 4: "Pharaoh Akhenaton had a flat nose, thick lips, and lower protruding jaw. His mummy shows that he was black". Akhenaton, or Ikhnaton, also called Amenhotep IV, was pharaoh of Egypt from about 1350 to 1334 BC. Akhenaton was the son of Amenhotep III and Tiy, and was the husband of the great White queen Nefertiti, whose beauty is now famous through the portrait bust . Akhenaton's son-in-law was Tutankhamen, who is most famous for the very anti-Black pictures on objects found in his tomb ("Europa: The History of the White Race" for these, which include bound Black prisoners in Tutankhamen's shoes and Tutankhamen riding over Blacks in his chariot). The Black supremacists rely for the lie that Akhenaton was Black, on a slight distortion of his mummy's nose, which has obviously been caused by the bandaging. A picture of the mummy is below: where the distortion can be clearly seen as artificial. Note also the hair and skull shape - neither of which are Negroid. Alongside the mummy, is a bust of Akhenaton, made during his lifetime. Above left: the mummy of Akhenaton, showing the distortion of the nose, obviously caused by the bandaging used in the mummification process; note the hair and skull shape - neither of which are Negroid. Right: a bust of Akhenaton, made during his lifetime - note the close resemblance between the bust and the mummy in skull shape, eye pit formation and chin. Lie 5: Pharaoh Zoser, who built the first pyramid at Saqqarah, was Black with a flat nose, thick lips, and a lower protruding jaw. The claim that Zoser was a Black, is based on a limestone statue which was found in the otherwise empty tomb complex at Saqqarah. The statue (below) is in fact very badly damaged - virtually the entire side of the face, the nose and a part of the mouth has been broken off. The damage to the statue has given the Black supremacists the chance to claim that he was Black - based purely on the damaged lips of the statue. Sadly, there are no other crystal clear images of Zoser - once again, this is very "convenient" for the Black supremacists - all the other kings for whom there are other portraits to cross reference, they make no such claims of Blackness! There is however one more image of Zoser which can also be found on a wall at Saqqarah: this is reproduced below and although slightly unclear, it can still be easily seen that he had none of the Negroid features that the Black supremacists want to attribute to him. Left: The conveniently damaged statue of King Zoser which the Black supremacists use to try and claim that the king was Black: and right, another image of Zoser on the wall of the Saqqarah complex: although weathered through time, the king is not portrayed with any Negroid features. Zoser ordered the building of the great step pyramid of Saqqarah by the engineer Imhotep : look here into the face of the White man who was the architect and builder of the Saqqarah pyramids: a feat for which he was later worshipped and made into a god of wisdom. Imhotep: the builder of the Saqqarah pyramid. Lie 6: What proof is there that King Ramses II had red hair? The mummy of Ramses II is on public display at the the Egyptian Museum, Cairo. Here is a fine picture of the mummy of this red haired Egyptian king who reigned from 1292 - 1225 BC: His hair had faded slightly by the time he died, and the Microscopic examination of the hair which has been carried out has shown conclusively that he had red hair. See K.A. Kitchen, "Pharaoh Triumphant: The Life and Times of Ramesses II, King of Egypt" (1982, reprinted 1985). Lie 7: "On the tomb of Ramses III, there are depictions of four racial types: a Black; a pale skinned and fair haired White; a Semite and a dark Egyptian, almost indistinguishable from the Nubian. The pale skinned White is clearly a foreigner: how is this explained?" Ramses III reigned from 1182-1151 BC, and was the last great Egyptian military leader who repeatedly saved that country from foreign invasion. In the fifth year of his reign, Ramses III defeated an attack by the partly mixed race Semitic/White Libyans from the west, and two years later he routed the Indo-European (Nordic) invaders known as the Sea Peoples. In his 11th year he again repelled an attempted Libyan invasion. He also launched major campaigns against the Black Nubians in the South, eventually extending the borders of his kingdom into the very north of Sudan. It is these victories which are depicted on the walls of his mortuary temple at Medinet Habu, near Luxor. So the figures shown on the mortuary walls of Ramses III are in fact pictures of those people captured as PRISONERS of the Egyptians! This is why some are Black, some are Semitic and some are Indo-European: Ramses III beat all these groups at different times during his reign. It is thus utterly FALSE to claim that these pictures of prisoners of Ramses III's military campaigns are representative of the Egyptians! They are in fact pictures of the ENEMIES of Egypt, captured during Ramses III's great military campaigns. The "dark Egyptian" is easily explained by the by then increasing use of Nubian and other mercenaries by the Egyptians, and the fact that Egyptian society was already by then becoming increasingly racially mixed (it is no co-incidence that Egypt started going into terminal decline after Ramses III). Even during the reign of Tutankhamen, which preceded that of Ramses III, imagery in Egyptian art showed Blacks and mixed racial types serving as slaves or as soldiers. Lie 8: "The old Egyptian language does not resemble any Caucasian tongue, but is linked to Somali. This is proof that the Egyptian civilization was not White in origin." Of course the Ancient Egyptian language does not resemble any "Caucasian" language. The Caucasian languages are the Indo-European languages, those spoken by the Indo-European peoples (Germans, Balts, Slavs and Celts) who started invading Europe and other parts of the world, starting out from the Caucasus mountain region of southern Russia. They were Nordic racial types. The Ancient White Egyptians were a mix of original White Mediterranean types and a number of Proto Nordics: they were never part of the great Indo-European peoples. In fact the Egyptians fought wars with the Indo-Europeans twice: once against the 'Sea Peoples" and then against the Hittites. So it is obvious that the Egyptian language will not be related to the Indo-European or Caucasian languages. As to being related to "Somali" - well, that is just funny- of course what happened is that the Blacks in Nubia who were conquered by the White Egyptians, took on parts of the White Egyptian language, and this is why small parts of the languages spoken in Somalia, Sudan and Ethiopia may today resemble Ancient Egyptian. But the Arabic influence has been far too widespread across the entire region to make any definite claims about this. =========================================================== Egyptian Writings About Blacks The White Egyptians left many written references to the Black population in Nubia and in their own midst: and at one point, even forbade Blacks from entering their country at all. An overview of these written inscriptions is highly worthwhile and devastates claims by pro-Black historians that the ancient Egyptian civilization was Black in racial origin. The most complete record and translation of these scripts was undertaken by professor James Henry Breasted, Professor of Egyptology and Oriental History in the University of Chicago in his work "History of Egypt, from the Earliest Times to the Persian Conquest", Second Edition, 1909 - for anyone interested in a detailed overview, based on original Egyptian sources, this book is well worth reading. All the writings quoted below have been extracted from Breasted's work and are based on original Egyptian records. Egyptian Racial Writings: The Sixth Dynasty The Inscription of Uni, Count and Governor of the South reads as follows: (Uni was an official of the Old Kingdom. This inscription is the most important document preserved.) "His majesty made war on the Asiatic Sand-Dwellers and his majesty made an army of many ten thousands: in the entire South. . . . among the Irthet Blacks, the Mazoi Blacks, the Yam Blacks, among the Wawat Blacks, among the Kau Blacks, and in the land of Temeh." This is an example of an Old Kingdom (2980-2475 BC) Pharaoh using thousands of Blacks as mercenaries: the army was sent into southern Palestine and "returned in safety after it had hacked up the land of the Sand-Dwellers. "His majesty sent me to dig five canals in the South, and to make three cargo-boats and four row boats of Acacia wood of Wawat. Then the Black chiefs of Irthet, Waway, Yam and Mazoi drew timber therefor, and I did the whole in only one year. The Pharaoh came to inspect this work and at the coming of the king himself, standing behind the hill country, while the chiefs of Mazoi, Irthet and Wawat, did obeisance and gave great praise." This writing shows very clearly the use of Blacks as labor - and illustrates how Blacks were slowly but surely drawn into Egyptians society. Egyptian Racial Writings: The Twelfth Dynasty A sandstone stela found in the sanctuary of Wadi Halfa contains an account of the Nubian expedition of Pharaoh Sesostris I, which carried this king's wars to their southernmost limits. At the top of this stela there is a relief showing Sesostris I standing facing the Lord of Thebes, who says, "I have brought for thee all countries which are in Nubia, beneath thy feet." The god then gives to the king a line of bound captives, symbolizing Nubian towns. The inscription of Prince Amenim, which is carved into the stone in the doorway of his cliff-tomb in Benihasin, describes the Black lands as " vile." It reads as follows ("Kush" was one of the Black lands): "I passed Kush sailing southward, ... then his majesty returned in safety having overthrown his enemies in Kush the vile." The inscription on the stela of Sihathor, an "Assistant Treasurer" is now to be found in the British Museum., reads as follows: "I reached Nubia of the Blacks, ... I forced the Nubian chiefs to wash gold." "To prevent that any Black should cross" The final conquest of Nubia was attained by Sesostris III in 1840 BC. This king conducted four campaigns against the Blacks and erected several forts at strategic points, making Nubia a permanent colony of Egypt. The first Semneh stela inscription recounting the subjugation of Nubia by Sesostris III reads as follows: "Southern boundary, made in the year 8, under the majesty of the king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Sesostris III, ... in order to prevent that any Black should cross it, by water or by land, with a ship, or any herds of the Blacks; except a Black who shall come to do trading in Iken, or with a commission. Every good thing shall be done with them but without allowing a ship of the Blacks to pass by Heh, going down stream, forever." Egyptian Racial Writings: The Eighteenth Dynasty (1580-1350 BC) The inscription of Ahmose reads: "Now after his majesty had slain the Asiatics, he ascended the river...to destroy the Nubian Troglodytes; his majesty made a great slaughter among them." It is also recorded that females were taken for slaves. "The Black is helpless" The Tomb

sherry
Philadelphia, Pa USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 06:44:10 (EDT)


up yours sherry, you cunt!

osiris
USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 04:44:02 (EDT)


To Legrand H. Clegg, you and Kwabena Danquah among others are a real inspiration. As a Black man and decendant of the Kamau I would like to say I LOVE YOU BROTHERS! And to add to what you said, Sherry, I read the book Race by John Baker on p.518 and it states "On the evidence of their mummies that the head-hair was curly, wavy, or almost straight, and very dark brown or black....The cheeks are narrow, the nose rather broad." Sound African to me, how about you? Furthermore, Baker quotes G.M. Morant and it goes like this: "From predynastic times onwards a principal part of the population of Egypt appears to have been composed of a section of the Aethiopid subrace (pp. 225-6". Baker goes on to say that the Aethiopids were "regarded...in general as part of the 'African branch'", and rightly so because when we look in the back of the book on page 625 we see that the Aethiopid are typically found in Ethiopia. Oh and Sherry you claim that "In times of slavery, white people were out there working right along the side of his or her slave(s) as well." Well perhaps you are not too familiar with economics and terms like cost of production. If you are not then I should tell you that people in business attempt to minimize the cost of production so as to maximize their profit. This is the major reason for slavery and racism. It is always a system of one person exploiting the other. This is the major reason for America's wealth. Sociologist attribute world poverty with the rise of Protestantism and the idea that one was "saved" by God if they were prosperous in their daily lives. Before the period of period of imperialism and slavery, African empires, such as Ghana and Songhai, rivaled European empires. Africans were defeated, not really because of firearms, but because they didn't realize that this was a threat on their way of life. They fought themselves instead of uniting against their common enemy. This is because for Afrikans it wasn't a issue of race. We will not make the same mistake twice; Africa will unite. So to answer your question as to what happened to Ethiopia and Africa-Europeans happened. Europeans, fearing the end of their cruel system of exploitation, kept Afrikans ignorant of everything including their own culture. So in more ways than we can ever imagine, the growth of Africa and its peoples were stunted by a greedy, evil, and conniving people. If we look at the many inventions (those that we are given credit for) that can be accredited to American-Africans, we can infer that had everyone been allowed to learn and build ideas from those that were already in existence (the Western world is now beginning to agree with many of the ideas that Afrikans and Asians have been uttering for so many years, only they are renaming it and calling it their own)we would have been more technologically advanced then we are now and perhaps more civilized. You may disagree with some of the cultural practices of our people but is Western Society better? No! No matter how you disguise your life with technology and attempt to make it seem like you are better you still are born, work for food to eat, you sleep, defecate, reproduce and die. Furthermore, you want to talk about barbarism then we can talk about theft of land, murder, rape, enslavement, poisoning and all other cruel acts on Afrikans, Chinese, American Indians, Australian Aborigines, Indians. We can talk about Apartheid, cruel system of Slavery, genocide on many American Indians, biological warfare, two World Wars, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, US sanctions on Iraq and Cuba that is killing innocent children, US involvement in Kosovo, environmental pollution, mass extinction of animals and the earth's biodiversity, man made diseases, Corporations that exploit children in "Third World" countries, World Bank oppressing "Third World" countries. How do you explain that? How do you explain that 10% of the people on this earth earn 80% of the wealth? Explain why God/Earth/Nature provides us with enough food for everyone on the earth to be overweight and yet people die of starvation. That is Barbarism. Oh and one last thing, the Kauma were without a doubt Black Afrikans. The evidence proves it. Now since you are an unbiased Egyptologist who will gain nothing if Kemet is Black or white, why don't you inform your colleagues of the TRUTH you have just learned from Mr. Clegg II. Thank you for recognizin'. Hotep.

Mack Audena aka Menes <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pittsburgh, PA USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 02:14:38 (EDT)


To Legrand H. Clegg, you and Kwabena Danquah among others are a real inspiration. As a Black man and decendant of the Kamau I would like to say I LOVE YOU BROTHERS! And to add to what you said, Sherry, I read the book Race by John Blake on p.518 and it states "On the evidence of their mummies that the head-hair was curly, wavy, or almost straight, and very dark brown or black....The cheeks are narrow, the nose rather broad." Sound African to me, how about you? Furthermore, Baker quotes G.M. Morant and it goes like this: "From predynastic times onwards a principal part of the population of Egypt appears to have been composed of a section of the Aethiopid subrace (pp. 225-6". Baker goes on to say that the Aethiopids were "regarded...in general as part of the 'African branch'", and rightly so because when we look in the back of the book on page 625 we see that the Aethiopid are typically found in Ethiopia. Oh and Sherry you claim that "In times of slavery, white people were out there working right along the side of his or her slave(s) as well." Well perhaps you are not too familiar with economics and terms like cost of production. If you are not then I should tell you that people in business attempt to minimize the cost of production so as to maximize their profit. This is the major reason for slavery and racism. It is always a system of one person exploiting the other. This is the major reason for America's wealth. Sociologist attribute world poverty with the rise of Protestantism and the idea that one was "saved" by God if they were prosperous in their daily lives. Before the period of period of imperialism and slavery, African empires, such as Ghana and Songhai, rivaled European empires. Africans were defeated, not really because of firearms, but because they didn't realize that this was a threat on their way of life. They fought themselves instead of uniting against their common enemy. This is because for Afrikans it wasn't a issue of race. We will not make the same mistake twice; Africa will unite. So to answer your question as to what happened to Ethiopia and Africa-Europeans happened. Europeans, fearing the end of their cruel system of exploitation, kept Afrikans ignorant of everything including their own culture. So in more ways than we can ever imagine, the growth of Africa and its peoples were stunted by a greedy, evil, and conniving people. If we look at the many inventions (those that we are given credit for) that can be accredited to American-Africans, we can infer that had everyone been allowed to learn and build ideas from those that were already in existence (the Western world is now beginning to agree with many of the ideas that Afrikans and Asians have been uttering for so many years, only they are renaming it and calling it their own)we would have been more technologically advanced then we are now and perhaps more civilized. You may disagree with some of the cultural practices of our people but is Western Society better? No! No matter how you disguise your life with technology and attempt to make it seem like you are better you still work for food to eat, you sleep, defecate, and reproduce. Furthermore, you want to talk about barbarism then we can talk about theft of land, murder, rape, enslavement, poisoning and all other cruel acts on Afrikans, Chinese, American Indians, Australian Aborigines, Indians. We can talk about Apartheid, cruel system of Slavery, genocide on many American Indians, biological warfare, two World Wars, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, US sanctions on Iraq and Cuba that is killing innocent children, US involvement in Kosovo, environmental pollution, mass extinction of animals and the earth's biodiversity, man made diseases, Corporations that exploit children in Third World countries, World Bank oppressing Third World countries. How do you explain that? How do you explain that 10% of the people on this earth earn 80% of the wealth? Explain why God/Earth/Nature provides us with enough food for everyone on the earth to be overweight and yet people die of starvation. That is Barbarism. Oh and one last thing, the Kauma were without a doubt Black Afrikans. The evidence proves it. Now since you are an unbiased Egyptologist who will gain nothing if Kemet is Black or white, why don't you inform your colleagues of the TRUTH you have just learned from Mr. Clegg II. Thank you for recognizin'. Hotep.

Mack Audena aka Menes <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pittsburgh, PA USA - Thursday, October 14, 1999 at 02:07:15 (EDT)


To Carl and Sherry: Most of our Black colleagues refuse to respond to White people who passionately condemn our contention that the ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. They believe that to attempt a debate with Caucasians on this issue is a useless dialogue of the deaf. We, on the other hand, believe that most White people are victims of a vast conspiracy promoted by scholars, scientists and politicians who have developed a civilization based on fiction. Part of this fiction is that Whites have been the harbingers of civilization since time immemorial, and that Blacks and other people of color have been their subordinates throughout history. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Hence, when you come to this site with your views, we are certain to respond. We believe that the falsification of history by White scientists and scholars has remained unchallenged for far too long. And we certainly will not tolerate it here. So, let's get it on! We'll start with you, CARL: It is absurd for you to claim that "no one denied Egypt is in Africa…just not Black Africa." I challenge you to find 10 books written by White Egyptologists who mention that Egypt is in Africa. They are in such denial that they cannot even tell the truth about geography. Why? Because they know that to mention Africa would suggest Blackness and the real origin of all African people, including the Egyptians. Secondly, you claim that the Egyptians "mixed with blacks" during the late period and that this was responsible for the decline of the country. This, too, is untrue. The Egyptians themselves traced their origin to the BLACK SOUTH- the land of Punt, modern day Somalia, Kenya and Uganda. Even racist White Egyptologists will admit that the early fossils and skulls of the predynastic Egyptians are "Negroid." The Black Egyptians later mixed with Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Roman, etc.-all of whom brought nothing but destruction and desecration of monuments, traditions and human beings. Finally, if Egypt were indeed a White (you say "blonde") civilization, why did White people cross the mountains and hills of Europe, sail across the Mediterranean into Africa and then cross miles of hot desert sands to begin civilization on another continent, yet they left no evidence of their brilliant civilization in Europe! Why? Because this never happened! The truth is that Black people founded Egypt long before Europeans even existed in the world. White journalist Richard Poe has said the following about the earliest White Europeans: "Why is the racial identity of ancient Egypt such a sensitive issue? Perhaps because it touches on the question of who invented civilization: Whites or Blacks? When the pyramids were built, Europe was still a wilderness, peopled by cannibals and headhunters." We are not "inventing proof," Carl, White scholars and scientists have been doing so for two hundred years, and we, as Black people, are simply not going to tolerate this degradation of our people and our history any more. It must stop, now, as we enter the 21st Century. Now, as for you, Sherry: You stated that you do not understand what White people would gain from claiming the ancient Egyptians were White, if this were not so. Why would they lie about history? White scientists and scholars would lie about history for the perpetuation of the illusion of White supremacy. White supremacy dominates everything in this society (i.e., economics, education, labor, law, politics, religion, etc.) The distortion of history is just one component of this longstanding practice and tradition. The Egyptians had many slaves, some of whom were Black people from the south-the very south to which the Egyptians traced their origin. In centuries passed Europeans enslaved other Europeans, and no one questioned the fact that some White people enslaved other Whites. But, if Egyptians enslaved Nubians they must have been of a different race. This is nonsense. Both the Egyptians and Nubians were African people. As you will see below, in my brief reference to Egyptian mummies, the remains that you make reference to are totally inconclusive. There is no proof of the true identity of the mummies of Ramesis II and Queen Hatshepsut. Furthermore, Queen Hatshepsut was the granddaughter of the unquestionably Black queen Ahmose Nefertari, co-founder of the 18th dynasty. Hatshepsut's entire family was of Nubian origin. Moreover, have you seen the wall paintings of Queen Hatshepsut's expedition to the African nation of Punt? The king and queen of Punt were clearly Black Africans. The peaceful relationship between the Egyptians and the Puntites resulted from the fact that the Egyptians traced their origin to Punt. We are well aware of the on-again/ off-again conflict between the Negroid Egyptians and the Black Nubians. Breasted, as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as "Black," when it meant no such thing. So all of that nonsense that you have quoted about "Blacks" not being able to cross into Egypt, etc. is a farce. Nahasi was a geographical name applied to certain peoples, tribes and nations south of Egypt. Remember, the people of Punt (modern day Somalia, Kenya & Uganda) were also south of Egypt and Black, but the Egyptians did not refer to them as Nahasi because they were in a different location (in East Africa and on the horn of Africa). In this vein, Cheikh Anta Diop has written: "Because of this inscription which marked off the border between the Meriotic Sudan and Egypt after the troubles of the Twelfth Dynasty, it is often concluded that this separated two distinct races, that the stela barred 'Blacks' from entering Egypt. Such a conclusion is a grievous error, for the term "Black" was never used by the Egyptians to distinguish the Meriotic Sundanese from themselves. Egyptians and Meroitic Sundanese belonged to the same race. They designated each other by tribal and regional names, never by epithets related to color, as in cases involving contact between a black race and a white race." Diop also adds: "Not one of the many modern texts is authentic that mentions the term 'Black' as if it had ever been used by the Egyptians to distinguish themselves from Negroes. Whenever these texts relate some fact reported by the Egyptians about 'Blacks' it is a distortion. They translate Nahasi by 'Blacks' in order to serve the cause. Strangely enough, the word Kushite becomes incompatible with the idea of 'Blacks' as soon as it refers to the first inhabitants who civilized Arabia before Mohammed; the land of Canaan, prior to the Jews (Phoenicia); Mesopotamia, prior to the Assyrians (Chaldean epoch); Elam; India, before the Aryans. This is one of the many contradictions that betray the specialists' fear of revealing facts they must have detected." Now the word Kemit, WHICH DOES MEAN BLACK, was used by the Egyptians to describe themselves; but the same Egyptologists who mistranslate Nahasi as Black claim that Kemit refers not to the people, but to the soil. This, Sherry, is indeed racism, and we unequivocally reject it. You mentioned Sesostris I and III and claim that they hated "the Blacks." Sherry, not only were these middle Kingdom pharaohs of Nubian origin, but also their sculptures depict them as unquestionably Black Africans themselves. Even some of their queens (e.g., Kawit and Ashayet) are shown wearing "Afro" hairstyles. What we have here is Black Egyptians at war with Black Nubians. You cannot expect us to believe that these Black Pharaohs referred to the lands south of Egypt as Black lands, when they called their own country, Egypt, "the place (or land) of the Black people." Nahasi does not mean Black. Kemit does. In the midst of all your citations, you also mentioned the pharaoh Ahmose, brother of Ahmose-Nefertari (also his queen) as saying "The Black is helpless." Even Harris and Weeks (no friends to Africentrists), who wrote "X-Raying The Pharaohs," admit that this pharaoh and his family were "genetically influenced by people of the south." They go on to say: "Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian…origin for Sequenenre [Ahmose's grandfather] and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is true, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stand in need of considerable re-examination." Now here you have two White Egyptologists acknowledging that Ahmose (Hatshepsut's grandfather) was of Nubian origin, and yet, you insist that he despised "the Blacks." He may have despised his kinsmen because they were unruly or would not submit to his domination, but he certainly did not hate them because they were black. We reject your reasoning, Sherry, because it is the same preposterous thinking that has led to the illusion of a White (blonde, you claim) Egypt on the African continent. Generally, when the Egyptians painted foreigners, they depicted them true to form; but when they painted themselves, they often depicted themselves as reddish brown-the colors of life, blood and rebirth. This was a conventional color, which they used no matter what the actual color of the individual might have been. When the Egyptians chose to depict the RACES with which they were familiar, they depicted themselves and the Nubians with BLACK SKIN. They depicted Europeans and Semites as white and tan respectively. If you visit the tomb of Ramesis III (1200 B.C.) you will see this firsthand. Furthermore, the most ancient monument in Egypt, the Sphinx, bears the likeness of a Black African and, during the late period, when Herodetus and other Greeks visited Egypt, they described the people as Black skinned with woolly hair: Hence, from the early date of the Sphinx, through Ramesis III and finally the late period, the Egyptians were clearly "Negroid," in spite of their gradual mixture with foreigners. As for blue-eyed Egyptians, this is clearly a fluke. As a matter of fact, it may even be fake. Not even the staunchest racist would claim that the Egyptians had blue eyes. Next, the "mummy evidence" that you mention has lost all credibility. In a recent article in KMT magazine (also see Science, June 9, 1978, p. 1149), it was pointed out that grave robbers stacked scores of mummies on top of one another, and later Egyptologists picked and chose at random which mummies they wanted to represent which pharaohs. Since most Egyptologists are blatantly negrophobic, we, as Blacks, certainly do not trust the validity of most of the mummies they have selected, especially when these mummies do not bear the characteristics of the corresponding sculptures and monuments. All of the monuments of Ramesis II (son of the decidedly Negroid SETI I) depict him with a very broad nose and thick lips-White people have pointed noses and thin lips. It is interesting that you would focus on King Tutankhamen (18th dynasty) to draw a distinction between the Egyptians and the Nubians. The 17th dynasty was of almost pure Nubian origin and the 18th dynasty was founded by the same family. All 18 of these pharaohs and queens were either Black, Negroid or of Black origin. Don't you understand, Sherry, where there was conflict, these were Black people fighting other Black people, just as is happening in parts of Africa today. King Tut's mother and father were Negroid. If you don't accept this from us, then, let us give you the names of a few White scholars who agree: George Rawlinson, John Wilkinson, Gerald Massey, Christian Desroches-Noblecourt and Alexander von Wuthenau. As a matter of fact, Von Wuthenau says the following about King Tut, which should clarify our position for you: "The features of this king, whose mother was of pure black stock, are almost as Negroid as the ones of his captured Nubian enemies." One of the founders of modern Egyptology was Champollion the younger. He and his Colleagues knew that the ancient Egyptians were not White people. In a letter to his brother, he described the paintings on the tomb of Sesostris I. This is what he wrote about the White people, who were designated last in the status of human beings: "Finally, the last one is what we call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard, tall stature and very slender, clad in a hairy ox-skin, a veritable savage tattooed on various parts of his body; he is called Tamhou…finally (and I am ashamed to say so, since our race is the last and the most savage in the series), Europeans who, in those remote epochs, frankly did not cut too fine a figure in the world. In this category we must include all blond and white-skinned people living not only in Europe, but Asia as well, their starting point." In the same vein, Diop adds: "It was as a prisoner of war, transformed into a slave, chained and branded, that the white man first entered Egyptian civilization. Careful study of the documents could lead to no other conclusion. One may pretend to be ignorant of these facts, but they are indestructible. The white man contributed nothing to Egyptian civilization, any more than Black Africa today contributes anything to modern technical civilization…. This is why it is inaccurate to speak of components of separate Egyptian civilization-for it was Negro, devoid of any outside European or Semitic contribution, as shown by Egypt's deep affinities with Negro psychology. Its civilization may have disappeared precisely because it was unable to borrow from later cultures and became a victim of its own homogeneity." To emphasize the capriciousness and racism of White scientists and scholars, let us make a personal reference. Over thirty years ago, when we were attending American colleges and universities, White academicians declared that the Nubians or Ethiopians (of all people) were Whites. Now that we as Black people are reclaiming all of African history, White scientists and scholars have decided to give up Nubia, but to keep Egypt to themselves. Well, please understand that TRUTH is not dependent on the whims of the White academic establishment. The Nubians of antiquity were always Black Africans and the Egyptians, though mixed by invaders, were also originally Blacks. Diop has said the following about the distinction between the two nations: "It is common to mention the mastaba or Egyptian tomb paintings as a place to distinguish the Nahasi from the Rametou, that is, the 'Blacks' from the so-called Egyptians. That is tantamount to distinguishing Wolof from Bambara, Mossi from Toucouleur, and mistaking the latter for the Whites, or for a race distinct from the black race represented by the Wolof. For an African, this is an accurate evaluation of the distinctions usually made on the basis of Egyptian paintings." Just as has happened with Nubia, we predict that, in the next decade, the White academic establishment will finally admit, publicly, what it has always known-that ancient Egypt was originally a Black, African nation. In the meantime, however, our integrity will not permit us to timidly hide the TRUTH while White scholars and scientists scurry around trying to decide when to openly endorse it. Finally, even with all of the White suppression of evidence and lies, most of the mummies on display have Negroid features; DNA tests show a genetic relationship between the Egyptians and Nubians; and scholars like Diop and Greenberg have demonstrated that the tongue of the pharaohs was related to other African languages. Furthermore, if the Egyptians were white and blonde, why didn't the Greeks and Romans say so. They and the Hebrews described the ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with woolly hair. You and your kinsmen may continue to perpetuate white supremacist nonsense; but we as people of African descent are no longer dependent on you for information, thank God. So we will continue to tell our own story, whether you like it or not!!! Legrand H. Clegg II Editor & Publisher MA'AT News @ The Clegg Series

Legrand H. Clegg II
USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 20:26:44 (EDT)


Indeed, it is sad that any dialogue will soon fall into the depths of insults and name-calling. With Thutmoses comment, it, too, seems as if Sherrie has revealed herself to the people. I am not condoning Thutmose's statements, but I, for one, did not like the seething rhetoric slung for a supposedly unbiased Scholar. Sherrie, your statements, no matter how justified you felt they were, won no one to your side and greater than that, actually motivated aversion to your "Factual" evidence. As a researcher, myself, I thought your statements of female circumcision to be out of text. Yes, to Western eyes this practice can be deducted as brutal, but eventhough, there are intrinsic spiritual components involved as well. It is my understanding the Kamau even practice such a ritual. If we are biased, we can see the harsh cruelity of excision (female circumcision), but how much more cruel is this compared to male circumcision, in application? Your statements debasing African "material" culture, both past and present, was indeed un-educated. The African has contributed many things to this world, some things even this "advanced" Western civilization is uncomfortable with or have difficulty understanding. Besides, one can not talk about post and neo-colonial Africa, without factoring the European slave trade and the colonial European interventions of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I know you are angry and words like those that were spoken about you are not in proper context, but you as a disciplined individual must refrain from stooping low. It is your responsibility, no one else's. I have seen your own insecurities and weaknesses, and by seeing these, it is hard for me to weigh any of your statements with credibility. I have no more to say. This discussion is, from henceforth, closed. Egun, mojuba iba e! Ase Ase Ase-O!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 20:00:35 (EDT)


From www.africanbynature.com. Reflections on the Revision of the African Centered Paradigm       Professor Jacob H. Carruthers     Then command the servant, thusly: Make an Elder's staff causing my son to stand in my place I will instruct him through the speech of the listeners and the counsels of the first of the ancients who listened to the divinities. In so doing troubles will be removed from the people.   - Ptahhotep, 4500 years ago     It is expected that all coloured men, women, and children, of every Nation, language and tongue under heaven,...(Who are not too deceitful, abject, and servile to resist the cruelties and murders inflicted upon us by the white slave holders, our enemies by nature) ... will try to procure a copy of this appeal and read it, or get some one to read it to them, for it is designed more particularly for them. Let them remember, that though our cruel oppressors and murderers, may (if possible) treat us more cruel, as Pharaoh did the children of Israel, yet the God of the Ethiopians, has been pleased to hear our moans in consequence of oppression; and the day of our redemption from abject wretchedness draweth near, when we shall be enabled, in the most extended sense of the word, to stretch forth our hands to the Lord our God, but there must be willingness on our part, for God to do these things for us, for we may be assured that he will not take us by the hairs of our head against our will and desire, and drag us from our very, mean, low and abject condition.   - David Walker, 1829 C.E.     The two statements by African master teachers are separated by more than four thousand years or as Ayi Kwei Armah put it "two thousand seasons." Each statement is part of an introduction to an instruction designed to guide African people toward appropriate ways of thinking, speaking, and acting. The instructions are examples of the two historical points of reference from which revisions of the African Centered Paradigm have developed and should continue to proceed. If we define paradigm as a model which guides in the development if a serekh (an epistemology or a discourse about knowledge), the relevance of Ptahhotep and David Walker's instruction become apparent. Instruction is the mode of knowing par excellence.   Therefore, our project involves the revision of the instructional model. We must first recognize that the African Centered perspective emerges from African life. Its existence, is found in the intergenerational transmissions among various African peoples. Obviously no one can "create" or "father" African Centeredness in such a context.   Each generation reproduces or revises the way of thinking. Representative articulators comment and otherwise clarify the worldview as dictated by contemporary circumstances and issues. The revision project must first revisit and read the two historical points of reference and then clearly examine the present situation regarding the challenges to African Centeredness.   In other words, revision of the African Centered paradigm must be based upon an African historiography and an African worldview. The resulting theoretical construct will allow us to explicate ends and evaluate means. The historical point of reference nearest to us is the late eighteenth century development of Ethiopianism as expressed in the texts of Africans of the diaspora.   They used the only literature available to them, a literature that was used by their oppressors to debase African humanity. They read the European texts from an African centered perspective and reached diametrically opposite results. The European intellectuals had fabricated a theory of the absence of African civilization; African thinkers found the reverse, i.e., the priority of African civilization.   The African perspective that we have inherited was the product of the African offensive against the intellectual atrocities of European philosophers such as Montesquieu, Hume, and Kant. The insertion of the doctrine of white supremacy and its correlative hypothesis African inferiority by great thinkers of France, Britain, and Prussia in the seventeenth century reached the   United States in full force with the publication of Thomas Jefferson's Notes On Virginia, during the debate on the U. S. Constitution. David Walker's instruction was in part an offensive against Jefferson's genocidal intellectual assault on African peoples. At the outset he confronted Jefferson's project with the following query; "Has Mr. Jefferson declared to the world, that we are inferior to the whites, both in the endowments of our bodies and our minds?"   The answer of course is yes. Indeed, for David Walker the liberation from chattel slavery required first of all a victory over the European intellectual campaign, white supremacy. For our purposes let us focus on three interwoven components of David Walker's instruction:   1) the curriculum philosophy, 2) the restoration of African humanity, 3) the study of the oppressor.   These themes were treated in each of Walker's four appeals and were combined in various ways to teach the absurdity of the African condition in a European dominated world. While the instruction was explicitly directed "to the coloured citizens(read African peoples) of the world" Walker also included a message to the oppressors including those who would plot to murder him for his courageous instruction.   Walker's curriculum philosophy called for a historically based Pan-African course of study. The teaching is the duty of all informed persons of African descent. The literate must read the lessons to the illiterate. Parents must instruct children because the chattel slave industry is maintained primarily due to the ignorance of the masses of African people.   Once the African mind is liberated there is no shackle which can keep the African enslaved. The major content of this curriculum includes the other tow components of the instruction. A second emphasis of Walker's Appeal is the priority of restoring African humanity. Such restoration begins with self identification. Walker confronted the question quite bluntly:   "If any are anxious to ascertain who I am, know the world, that I am one of the oppressed, degraded and wretched sons of Africa,". That self-identification leads to the recognition of the historical and cultural unity of African peoples. Teaching about this Pan-African unity in time and space is necessary to combat the divide and conquer strategy of the oppressor.   The reconstruction of African history with emphasis on the Nile Valley is another pillar of the restoration. The ancient Egyptian must be accepted as a part of self-identity.   For the information of those among the "brethren (who) do not know... the Egyptians were Africans or coloured people such as we are." The Egyptians must also be viewed from an African perspective which finds that they were much more civilized than the ancient Europeans and much more humane than the contemporary "American Christians." Therefore the African curriculum must:   ... take a retrospective view of the arts and sciences the wise legislators the Pyramids and other magnificent buildings the turning of the channel of the river Nile, by the sons of Africa or Ham among whom learning originated and was carried thence into Greece.   Teaching about the role of Africans in world history destroys the European fabrication "negro inferiority" which prepares the way for Europeans to cultivate ignorance among African masses and servile treachery among a few collaborators.   The foundation in African antiquity is linked to a focus on outstanding examples of successful contemporary African freedom fighters. In this regard Walker asserted:   But what need have I to refer to antiquity, when Hayti, the glory of the blacks and terror of tyrants, is enough to convince the most avaricious and stupid of wretches. ...I hope that she may keep peace within her borders and be united, keeping a strict look out for tyrants, for if they get the least chance to injure her, they will avail themselves of it, as true as the Lord lives in heaven. But one thing which gives me joy is, that they are men who would be cut off to a man, before they would yield to the combined forces of the whole world-in fact, if the whole world was combined against them, it could not do any thing with them, unless the Lord delivers them up.   Teaching about the Haitian revolution as the model for African liberation completes the framework for regeneration of African humanity. The inspiration and examples from African antiquity and present day Africans because the core of African pedagogy from the time of Walker to the present.   A third component of David Walker's Appeal emphasized teaching about the oppressor. He traced the aggressive conflictual culture of the Europeans from antiquity to his on time. He especially exposed the American Christians. He singled out Thomas Jefferson, Henry Clay and a few others. By penetrating behind this rhetoric in documents like the Declaration of Independence and the statements of the American Colonization Society he taught about the white supremacy project. His analysis of "American history" is clearly African centered.   David Walker viewed his project of African education as a link in an intergenerational chain of transmission. He tied his teaching to his mentor Bishop Richard Allen who had begun the reclamation of ancient Egypt and Ethiopia a generation earlier.   Even though David Walker did not use the term African centered or Afrocentric (as far as I know), his discourse is clearly African centered. He identifies himself as a "son of Africa- his curriculum philosophy is an African teaching for Africans and by Africans. While all African peoples in time and space fall within the scope of his project, the course of study includes an in-depth study of world history including Asia and especially Europe.   Thus, African centered discourse is a conversation among Africans based upon the interests of Africans. The project which Walker articulated so well and which he had received from his elders was passed on to those who followed him, Henry Highland Garnet and Martin Delany. They revised the discourse and passed it on to their followers. It passed to the pre-World War II champions of African civilization who taught our mentors John Henrik Clarke and Yosef ben Jochannan.   The use of the term Afrocentric in the context of our present project can be traced to the formation of the African Heritage Studies Association in 1968 when one of its objectives was the study of history along "Afrocentric lines." Such was the context when the "Chicago Group" of nationalists began the publication of the Afrocentric World Review in 1973. At the outset Anderson Thompson stated:   Putting Black interests first, the view of Afrocentricity, is the plateau from which we launch our dialogues with those who are dedicated to the establishment of power among African peoples. Afrocentrism strives for reinforcing the New African Frame of Reference being forged by Black brothers all over the world. It seeks for a collective identity founded on Black ideas, rather than the ideas of non-Blacks.   We propose that the best place to begin this endeavor is with our collective experience, rather than the preconceived theories of aliens, how-ever attractive these theories may seem. This methodological directive necessitates, among other things, Black studies about non-Blacks. It is only when we focus on what actually happened, rather than some European ideological theory for what happened, can we begin to know what our real interests are. Thus we choose to seek out those ideas and objectives which truly represent the interest of the bulk of scattered African people, wherever they now exist in the world.   Revisions of the African centered discourse since David Walker have been extensive but the basic core remains intact. Some of his positions have been criticized or rejected, for example, his allegiance to Protestant Christianity; and his deference to the British people who had outlawed the chattel slave trade and were on the brink of abolishing chattel slavery itself. Although Walker asserted that "we are a people" thus distinguishing the African population from the Christian American people, the explicit explication of African nationalism was made a generation later by Martin Delany.   The other relevant historical point of reference is the classical African civilization which Walker emphasized. An examination of the literature of Kemet provides us with the foundation for a paradigm for the African centered project which was revised by Walker. The master teacher Ptahhotep laid out the framework for the Sebayet (the Kemetic systems of education), which was actually preparation for leading the Good Life.   What the student needs is not just rekh (knowledge) which comes through the seeing of the eyes, the hearing of the ears, and the sniffing of the nose carrying impressions to the mind; the particular knowledge needed to direct human action is medew nefer i.e., good speech. Good speech is tied to the command dd mc3t, ir mc3t (speak truth, do truth). In other words speech must be consistent with action.   Ptahhotep explained what instruction itself is. Instruction is an Elder's staff. "Elder's staff" is a double metaphor: 1) The next generation raised to replace the Elders who make a staff to lean on, 2) The instruction or speech which the Elders transmit to the next generation which "makes" them i.e., enables them to carry on.   Instruction then is the chain of transmission of the knowledge and memory that defines a people. "Knowledge" must be refined and evaluated through the community in time and space because as the text states, "No one is born wise."   The ancestral transmission through good speech is the source of wisdom - the only kind of knowledge that defines the human mission. The Instruction of Ptahhotep, as sited here is a revision of an earlier text which has not yet been found. In the available edition it is part of the Weheme Mesu launched in the Twelfth Dynasty.   Weheme Mesu means Repetition of the Birth and is the, perhaps, first expression of the concept of renaissance in history. The textual explosion which followed the announcement of the project included revision of certain traditional texts. This brings us to the question Cheikh Anta Diop raised in 1948, "When can we talk of an African Renaissance?"   His pursuit of the answer led him to the reclamation of Kemet. The revision of the tradition which centered on the restoration of classical African civilization is the objective toward which all champions of African humanity must aim.   The situation in which African peoples found themselves in 1829 and again in 1948, inevitably drove the champions into the arms of African antiquity. Walker was perhaps unfamiliar with the teachings of Ptahhotep and Diop in 1948 was probably unaware of both Walker's instruction and the Weheme Mesu.   But both ironically revised traditions that their own works became a part of. In a similar fashion, the works of Diop, George G. M. James, and J. C. de Graft-Johnson in 1854 and later Chancellor Williams, John Henrik Clarke, and Yosef ben Jochannan were revised by the Black Studies Revolution.   The Black Studies Movement was a project designed to overthrow the curriculum of white supremacy, which in turn led to the African Centered project. Thus for over two centuries the champions of African Civilization have been revising the African Centered paradigm as an offensive against the atrocities of the European campaign of white supremacy.   Let us now review our present situation by extending a statement by David Walker:   If any are anxious to ascertain who I am, know the world, that I am one of the oppressed, degraded and wretched sons of Africa, rendered so by the avaricious and unmerciful, among the whites. If any wish to plunge me into the wretched incapacity of a slave, or murder me for the truth, know ye, that I am in the hand of God, and at your disposal. I count my life not dear unto me, but I am ready to be offered at any moment. For what is the use of living, when in fact I am dead.   Thus, Walker anticipated his own assassination. The price put on him dead or alive by the State of Georgia and his murder a year later, was an attempt to murder the voice of Africa. The present campaign by the defenders of Western Civilization is designed to murder the voice of African Centeredness. The attack by Diane Ravitch joined by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. and Mary Lefkowitz aim at the intellectual assassination of the current champions.   This attack indicates the extent to which we have succeeded in inspiring large numbers of Africans throughout the world to study African life and history "along Afrocentric lines." On the other hand their attack is related to the co-optation and/or dismantling of African Studies programs. But, like David Walker they may "murder" us but our revision is here to stay.   In review of this historical context, the particular term we use to call the epistemic is relatively unimportant; whether we use Afrocentrism or Africentric and all of their derivatives what we mean is African Centeredness as we put it in 1974 in the second issue of the Afrocentric World Review:   ... we assert that all foreign isms, doctrines, ideologies, and systems of thought are not only inadequate but must be avoided. In taking this stand we are not so much anti anything, we are merely pro Afrikan, or in other words, Afrikan Centered.   The African centered paradigm in both its ancient and modem versions is an instructional process. Our revision must continue that tradition since instruction is designed to enable students to lead the meaningful life. Therefore the epistemology is comprehensive. The paradigm should be a model curriculum. Let us call it the Sebayet (African curriculum). Classical African texts contain the guidelines for the core curriculum.   The course of study should include medew netcher (theology), medew nefer grammar (Logic), maat (governance), hepu nefer (ethics), soneb (health), hesebu (mathematics), sesh (writing), and genut (history). The development of these disciplines of these disciplines in the context of an African centered historiography of the world is the appropriate approach to our project: the "reproduction" of knowledge about Africa and for African peoples.   Written by, Professor Jacob H. Carruthers (His most recent works: Intellectual Warfare)   Dr. Carruthers received his Ph.D. from the University of Colorado. He is a founding director of the Association for the study of Classical African Civilisation (ASCAC) and served as its president for 5 years. He is also a founding member and director of the Kemetic Institute. He joined the staff of Northeastern Illinois University's Center for Inner City Studies (CICS) in 1968 and helped to shape its curriculum by connecting it with Africa.   His research has taken him to several African countries including Ethiopia, Egypt, Zimbabwe, Senegal and Ivory Coast. He is a well sought after Egyptologist, having lectured in several universities including Cornell and Tennessee State Universities and The Universities of Colorado and Indiana.   Dr. Carruthers is a consultant to both the Dayton and Chicago public systems. Dr. Carruthers is a firm believer that connecting African people to heir history is a key factor in their liberation. He has written numerous books and essays.   Some of his major works include: The Irritated Genie: An Essay on the Haitian Revolution.   Kemet and the African Worldview : Research, Rescue and Restoration, co-written with Dr. Maulana Karenga, the creator of Kwanzaa, the African American and Pan-African holiday celebrated by millions throughout the world African community.   MDW NTR Divine Speech; A Historiographical Reflection of African Deep Thought from the time of Pharaohs to the Present, co-written with the world-renowned, Dr. John Henrik Clarke (A Preliminary Bibliography of the late Dr. John Henrik Clarke's Writings).     "History is not everything", but it is the starting point. History is a clock that people use to tell their time of day. It is a compass they use to find themselves on the map of human geography. It tells them where they are, but more importantly, what they must be. - Dr. John Henrik Clarke

rodney cash jr.
USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 12:50:46 (EDT)


To Turner from Compton: First of all, I am not "savage", and the information that I have posted here is factual, not opinionated. I can see your level of maturity, in the ways in which you have attacked me within your post...so my next question is..why dont you present me with FACTS, not your personal racist opinions. Its obvious, thats all you did. As far as my question of not understanding..that is based on the black-americans' view of different situations,as for example, why a lot of you on this board feel as though you have been "robbed" of your history. Again, what would white people have to gain from that? Absolutely nothing.Nothing. It makes no sense in your accusations. Also, heres some food for thought...its undisputable in regards to the original ancient Egyptians being white, its a fact whether you like it or not, because there is overwhelming evidence, not only with the discovery of mummies, but as well as numerous other writings, atrifacts, etc..Now, as the years went by in Egypt, the population grew darker, now, why is ancient Eygptian civilization completely vanished? If it were under such great black rule as you say...why hasnt it prospered anymore? Why hasnt any other african country accomplished that of ancient Egypt? All of this talk of Ethiopia, what is Ethiopia today...or for that 2 to 300 years ago? There are still many, and I mean many, african villages/tribes that have not been touched by the "white" man, where are their structures? Pyramids? There are none. Where are all of these superhuman mathmaticians...architects...embalmers...in Africa now? This is probably making you quite angry right now, but honestly, its a whole-hearted question. Can you answer it? Surely, if ancient Egyptians were black they would have passed something or some form of this knowledge down to their offspring, for future generations.Also, Turner, you cannot keep "blaming" the "white" man for all of your heartaches and troubles. I can see that you were evidentaly taught to hate by the way you worded your post. You have a lot of animosity towards white people. White people did not take nations and build them only with the help of minorities. In since you want to turn this into a black & white argument/debate, let me tell you a few things. In America, African-Americans have the "Highest" birth rate of living children. In Africa , it is the lowest surviving birth rate. In times of slavery, white people were out there working right along the side of his or her slave(s) as well. In Africa today, it is, the most backward continent on this earth, yet you call me savage, or barbaric. Today, in Africa, it is going on, and has been going on for hundreds of years, of where within numerous tribes, they cut off the clits of their 7 to 9 year old female children. It is currently still in their practice as it has been for hundreds and hundreds of years. Canniblism, is still taking place within tribes, even in Austrailia, within aboriginees tribes. It is also a known FACT that in Africa, within tribes, trade takes place in the form of livestock for one of another tribes child, so the other can mate and make her his wife, and this happens to children at 7 to 9 years of age, shortly after their clits have been cut off, savagely.This is "sopposed" to prepare the young female child for marriage. I could go on and on, but responding to your post has already taken us off the subject of this whole board.."Ancient Egypt". With all of the "hate" I sense from you, I can understand why now. You seem to want to blame the white man for your thoughts, and Africa has nothing better to hang on to, or brag about to this day, except for Egypt, and you would like, and you want to be accepted in this world, and by your own insecurities, you want to hold onto Egypt as if your ancestors built it. Well, you need to stop beinmg so angry,m stop throwing out your hatred towards white people, and open your mind to the facts, and the evidence. Then, once you have done this, do something productive with yourself, and concentrate on "you" as a person, and make something good of your life. Then, you will get the respect that you are so desperately calling out for. If you would like , you can post back to me, with FACTS, not your racist OPINIONS. If you cant accomplish that much, then, dont bother writing anything to me. I am here , and will continue to come here, to discuss facts, with mature people, of any color, and I will not leave because I am not black. I will only leave if the webmaster here tells me to do so, other than that, present me with facts, not with your angry racist opinions when I present you with FACTS. Thank You for understanding. Sherry

sherry
philadelphia, pa USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 07:28:33 (EDT)


"TRUTH CRUSHED TO THE EARTH SHALL RISE AGAIN"! The truth is rising.....and the barbaric savages are scared stiff! As for the savage person called Sherrie: FACT: This site is not for you! You have all your white media sources to keep you company. You opinion is not valuable to us and it is not wanted! You are right when you say you don't understand! That is your problem, but please try to figure it out someplace else. This site is for BLACK people to learn about themselves! You are not BLACK and therefore you do not count. You and your people are paranoid about what BLACK people think of themselves. Nobody cares about what you think about yourself..... However, what you and your fellow savages fear most is happening. Black people are thinking and finding out the truth about ourselves. Do you exhibit the same amount of paranoia about what Mexicans, or Asians talk about themselves. NO!!!!!! And HELL NO!!!!!!!! Why, because the would changes and will permanently when BLACK people begin to think...."BLACK". You and what white people think is irrelevant. Go sit on it! And to my BLACK brothers and sisters...in the words of the honorable Marcus Garvey...."BE BLACK, BUY BLACK, THINK BLACK....AND ALL ELSE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF". Take thought to this quote my brothers and sisters. HOTEP

Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, October 13, 1999 at 02:53:35 (EDT)


This website has been a wonderful source of knowledge for me. This is to Sherry from Philadelphia. Although I do not read Mdw Ntr (hieroglyphics), I know that the words "Black" are not written inside the walls of the pyramids. If we refer back to Kwesi USA - Monday, June 07, 1999 at 13:43:07 (EDT), we see that the word that racist white egyptologists often refer to as being Black is Nahasi. I'll simply let Kwesi tell it-"Actually, "Nahasi" was a name of some of the Blacks who lived to the south of Kamit. The Kamau and the Nahasi were sometimes at odds with one another. Yet, these were two unmixed Black-African groups who were alternately at odds and diplomatic during various periods of their interactions with one another. You can confirm the identical ethnicity/race of the Kamau and Nahasi by viewing one of the full-color murals found in Rameses III's tomb. In this mural, the four races that inhabited Kamit at the time are painted in full-color. The first is a painting of a Kamau citizen "reth". He is a jet-black African. Standing next to him is a foreigner who is an "Aamu". He is a light-skinned non-African. The third individual in the mural is a "Nahasi". He is painted as a jet-black African---the same color as the Kamau citizen. The last individual in the mural is a light-skinned foreigner called "Tamahou". He is a non-African Arab-type. This full-color mural can be found in the book "Egypt Revisited" by Ivan Van Sertima. It can be found in black and white in the books "Civilization or Barbarism" by Cheik Anta Diop, as well as "Egyptian Yoga" by Muata Ashby. The difference between the person of Kamit and the Nahasi is similar to the difference between the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda and Burundi. They have been at odds, but not because they are of different races. Hetep." Whites have a lot to gain or should I say maintain from denying a great people of their truth.As I said in my last posting, and I'm sure you know it as well, Afrikans will once again rise to power. The entire process of slavery and colonialism was an effort to make black people believe and accept the lie that we were inferior. It is this belief that has kept us from achieving for ourselves what we have done for the white man. Yes, America and the European nations were enriched from Black labor and theft, murder and enslavement. That doesn't make you a great people it makes you evil. All that you've earned, or rather, stolen is a result of the work of other races. White have hidden the truth from Blacks for so long in hopes maintaining their strangle hold on the one people they fear the most. The one people they know will restore the world to its balance once they begin to love themselves in everyway. It is only then, after the most despised group of people begin to love themselves, will they begin to rise, without committing the same atrocities as was committed by the Europeans. It is then all people will begin to see that we can achieve more if we feed each other as opposed to feeding off each other. Hotep.

Mack Audena <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pittsburgh, PA USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 23:03:38 (EDT)


I ask where is this increasing Black population in Egypt now! If the Black population was increasing, then would't you think most Egyptians would be indistinguishable from Nubians! How come it couldn't have been an increasing White influx among an original Black population. How ego-centered, White ego-centered!

UNITED
MN - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 20:38:15 (EDT)


Bravo!!! Don, well said and well put! These are honest words, if there ever were any!

UNITED
USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 20:32:08 (EDT)


Alafia to all. Thank you (Adupe) Bro. Curtis for your kind words and support. It is greatly appreciated. To Sherry, you have raised points, which only, yes only, a trained scholar in the hierogylphic scripts can debate. Unfortunately, however, I can not read hierogylphics, so I must assume your translation is correct and accurate. With this said, I still remain adamantly against the notion of a majority pre-Dynastic and Dynastic White population. My reasons are based on the cultural content in Kemet, in the areas of art, religion, and society structure, in general. There is unsurmountable evidence connecting Kemet with "sub-Saharan" Africa. Besides, one historian, I can not refute as uncredible, is the eye-witnessing Herodotus. Herodotus never generalized the Egyptians, who he described as melanos (melana), by any "blond" characteristics. This guy was, again I repeat, an eyewitness. It can be argued that Herodotus arrived late in Egypt, but then what is one to make of Her-ma-khet or the Sphinx? This momument shows the distinct facial features of Blacks, but according, to your account of hierogylphics, the Egyptians can be interpreted as anti-Black. Why is that? Many early pharaohs exhibit little traits of "white" features, but a strong list of African ones can be deducted from these rulers. It is hard to say, with absolute assurance, that these individuals, or any for that matter, can be made to look Black. Even Ramses has a bust where small coiled spirals can be found. What is the reason for this? Kemet reached a height, when most of the "white" tribes had left Africa and were still roving around, in search of pliable homelands. The Hellenistic Greeks had not descended yet from East Central Europe (Euro-asia) and nor had the Iranian tribes made their way into India from their Aryan birthplace. If we look at Ethiopia, a place which pre-dates Egypt in terms of civilizing grades, we see many traits, which could have more easily proliferated up the Nile than the notion of European invaders from outside of Africa. As I close, being Blond or have straight hair does not actually qualify someone as being connected to the "White race". Many Australian Aborgines (the Black Fellows) as children can sometimes have Blond, curly hair, although they possess very dark skins, wide nasal passages, and pronounced facial prognathism. The Fulani, who many historians (even some to this day) believed are an intermixture of Caucasoids and local African populations, have straight hair and "Caucasoid" features. However, the historians' assertions have no genetic basis, since the Fulani compare little genetically to Caucasoids. This is also the case with the Tutsis of (Bu)Rundi and Ruanda (Rwanda), they have fallen into the slender "Hamites" category because of their non-Negroid features and possible Egyptian origin. Again, though, as with the Fulani, there is no genetic support for Caucasoid origin. Indeed, the opposite has been proven. Couple these examples, with the discovery late last year/early this year, where Africa is said to be the most diverse continent on the planet. Even the "Negroid" people of West Africa are diverse from one another, genetically speaking. Africa is three times more diverse than Europe and twice as much as Asia. Where do we go from here? Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 20:28:35 (EDT)


Peace be unto you, my sisters and brothers: That this site has done what it was intended to do and more is without dispute. It has allowed you an opportunity to express your view either in support of or opposition to the evidence that the original Egyptians were Black. I am not here to convince you that the Egyptians were either Black or White, but to share a very interesting 2nd grade classroom experience that I had over 30 years ago when my homeroom teacher (who happens to be white), in an attempt to raise our awareness of who we are and why we look different, by illustration, showed us a map of the different countries of the would. A picture of a different race of people on the map served to depict the race of people that was common to each particular country. This was very interesting to me because I, too, wanted to know why I was so different in appearance from other kids in the class room. For example, the teacher would point to the continent of Asia and go on to describe the Asian people and climate. She explained that the Asian people had slanted eyes due to the fact that the continent was plagued with violent dust storms that could cause sever damage to the eyes, if left unprotected. The Asian's eyes appeared slanted because of the extra layer of fat over their eyelids that served to protect the eyes from these violent dust storms. She continued to explaine why each continent and people were different...the Eskimos had big round faces (extra layers of fat) and slanted eyes as well, due to the cold and the snow storms, the Whites were pale in color due to their living so far away from the son and subsequent lack of pigmentation. I'll never forget that she pointed to the continent of Africa and went on to explain that Black people were darker than others because of the close relationship to the sun in that the continent of Africa was so close to the equator and so very hot. Their dark skin protected them from the sun rays and the elements, and their Kinkie hair served as protection as well. This made absolute sense to me. Even to the point where, for a long time, I asked myself why the hell did my people have to come from Africa---this hot land that forced us to become so dark in color and to have this coarse hair. I even felt ashame of these facts, for I had been taught that White is beautiful and Black is ugly. This was taught to me, even from the very bible that my mother believed in until the day she died. The bible makes reference to good and evil and equates good with lightness and evil with darkness. It tells us how our sins will be washed as "white as snow" and how the evil doers love the darkness. I'll never forget that a picture of a "White Jesus" hung on the walls of the pulpit itself. I also learned this through the media which always depicted the good guys, "The Lone Ranger", "Casper the Friendly Ghost", "Santa Clause", etc., were all white. Pictures of death or anything evil was always depicted as being black. All of this made me feel less than good about myself. Then, the hypocracy came. The very thing that had been taught to me by my second grade teacher became to sours of my inquisition. When the television series "Tarzan the Ape Man" depicted Tarzan as White, I knew that somebody was not being totally honest. How did I know, because my second grade teacher had taught me that Black people came from Africa. So I began to question the facts as presented by mainstream America. Now that I'm older, I know that this land was built on lies and hypocracy, that this land was stolen from the indians, that my Great-grand parents were slaves, brought from Africa against their will, and that I, left alone in my native land, COULD HAVE BEEN KING!!! And now that the truth of Africa is finally known, Everyone wants to be from Africa, but no one wants to be Black. Well, sorry, but my second grade teacher appears to have been right all along when she said "Black people come from Africa". God bless you all.

Don
Age: 37, L.A., CA USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 12:57:27 (EDT)


Peace be unto you, my sisters and brothers: That this site has done what it was intended to do and more is without dispute. It has allowed you an opportunity to express your view either in support of or opposition to the evidence that the original Egyptians were Black. I am not here to convince you that the Egyptians were either Black or White, but to share a very interesting 2nd grade classroom experience that I had over 30 years ago when my homeroom teacher (who happens to be white), in an attempt to raise our awareness of who we are and why we look different, by illustration, showed us a map of the different countries of the would. A picture of a different race of people on the map served to depict the race of people that was common to each particular country. This was very interesting to me because I, too, wanted to know why I was so different in appearance from other kids in the class room. For example, the teacher would point to the continent of Asia and go on to describe the Asian people and climate. She explained that the Asian people had slanted eyes due to the fact that the continent was plagued with violent dust storms that could cause sever damage to the eyes, if left unprotected. The Asian's eyes appeared slanted because of the extra layer of fat over their eyelids that served to protect the eyes from these violent dust storms. She continued to explaine why each continent and people were different...the Eskimos had big round faces (extra layers of fat) and slanted eyes as well, due to the cold and the snow storms, the Whites were pale in color due to their living so far away from the son and subsequent lack of pigmentation. I'll never forget that she pointed to the continent of Africa and went on to explain that Black people were darker than others because of the close relationship to the sun in that the continent of Africa was so close to the equator and so very hot. Their dark skin protected them from the sun rays and the elements, and their Kankie hair served as protection as well. This made absolute sense to me. Even to the point where, for a long time, I asked myself why the hell did my people have to come from Africa---this hot land that forced us to become so dark in color and to have this coarse hair. I even felt ashame of these facts, for I had been taught that White is beautiful and Black is ugly. This was taught to me, even fromt the very bible that my mother believed in until the day she died. The bible makes reference to good and evil and equates good with lightness and evil with darkness. It tells us how our sins will be washed as "white as snow" and how the evil doers love the darkness. I'll never forget that a picture of a "White Jesus" hung on the walls of the pulpit itself. I also learned this through the media which always depicted the good guys, "The Lone Ranger", "Casper the Friendly Ghost", "Santa Clause", etc., were all white. Pictures of death or anything evil was always depicted as being black. All of this made me feel less than good aobut myself. Then, the hypocracy came. The very thing that had been taught to me by my second grade teacher became to sours of my inquisition. When the television series "Tarzan the Ape Man" depicted Tarzan as White, I knew that somebody was not being totally honest. How did I know, because my second grade teacher had taught me that Black people came from Africa. So I began to question the facts as presented by mainstream America. Now that I'm older, I know that this land was built on lies and hypocracy, that this land was stolen from the indians, that my Great-grand parents were slaves, brought from Africa against their will, and that I, left alone in my native land, COULD HAVE BEEN KING!!! And now that the truth of Africa is finally known, Everyone wants to be from Africa, but no one wants to be Black. Well, sorry, but my second grade teacher appears to have been right all along when she said "Black people come from Africa". God bless you all.

Don
Age: 37, L.A., CA USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 12:39:55 (EDT)


I'm having difficulty in trying to understand why..exactly why, do you feel that there is some form of a "conspiracy" from the whites, against the blacks, when it comes to ancient history. What exactly do you think white people have to "gain" from these accusations that you have made? Why does it seem that whenever someone confronts blacks with the truth, its automatically turned into "racism"? I said absolutely nothing racist, and I have come to this board for intelligent discussion of FACTS, not opinions, or racial motives. Now, with this in mind...can anyone of you tell me why you think that white people are denying you your so called "ancient" culture? This is the most insane accusation I've ever heard of. For what would white people have to gain? It makes no sense. I would like to ask you..have you ever been to Egypt? Can you read ancient heirogylphics? ***I want to say that, if you have and if you can read it, the writing is on the wall..all within the pyramids as well as other ancient Egyptian writings that were found.You say that RamsesII ..his red hair was that of an ethiopian? Well, lets go past this color topic..black hair strands differ so greatly from white hair strands, regardless of the color. Black hair strands tend to be course, harder, as than to a white persons hair which is just the opposite.Are you at all familar with the tests, well, no, forget all of these scientific tests, because you think they are "all racist", so just look at his hair..it is definately not that of the negroid.Another example: what about all of the long-blonde haired mummies found in tombs within the pyramids? For instance: Egyptian Queen Hatshepsut? She was the wife of Pharoah ThutmosisII, she herself had "long blonde hair". So my next question is, do ethiopians have blonde hair too? Have you seen the mummy corpse of Queen Pharoah Hatshepsut? You should..your finding would be quite startling.Another example: King Hor (circa 1783-1633bc) is on display in the Cairo Museum, Cairo ,Egypt...King Hor has striking blue eyes. You should check it out for yourself, before you call anyone a racist, or a liar.Also, some more food for thought: Below are some more very interesting FACTS that were obtained in Egypt, ***not from any "white man's" history book...read it yourself. Also, to the anthropology student who made some comments to me: I have a degree in Archeology, majoring in ancient Egyptian studies. I have been to Egypt, I can read ancient Egyptian heiroglyphic writings, and trust me, there is no "conspiracy" against black people when it comes to ancient Egyptian fatcs. There couldnt be any "conspiracy" because, the writings are all on the walls, for all and any to see. You may like to ask your Professor about the article below that I am posting. Also, I wish you well in your studies of anthropology, and I hope one day you will be as fortunate as I have been to not only travel to Egypt, but to study there as well. *God Bless* Egyptian Writings About Blacks The White Egyptians left many written references to the Black population in Nubia and in their own midst: and at one point, even forbade Blacks from entering their country at all. An overview of these written inscriptions is highly worthwhile and devastates claims by pro-Black historians that the ancient Egyptian civilization was Black in racial origin. The most complete record and translation of these scripts was undertaken by professor James Henry Breasted, Professor of Egyptology and Oriental History in the University of Chicago in his work "History of Egypt, from the Earliest Times to the Persian Conquest", Second Edition, 1909 - for anyone interested in a detailed overview, based on original Egyptian sources, this book is well worth reading. All the writings quoted below have been extracted from Breasted's work and are based on original Egyptian records. Egyptian Racial Writings: The Sixth Dynasty The Inscription of Uni, Count and Governor of the South reads as follows: (Uni was an official of the Old Kingdom. This inscription is the most important document preserved.) "His majesty made war on the Asiatic Sand-Dwellers and his majesty made an army of many ten thousands: in the entire South. . . . among the Irthet Blacks, the Mazoi Blacks, the Yam Blacks, among the Wawat Blacks, among the Kau Blacks, and in the land of Temeh." This is an example of an Old Kingdom (2980-2475 BC) Pharaoh using thousands of Blacks as mercenaries: the army was sent into southern Palestine and "returned in safety after it had hacked up the land of the Sand-Dwellers. "His majesty sent me to dig five canals in the South, and to make three cargo-boats and four row boats of Acacia wood of Wawat. Then the Black chiefs of Irthet, Waway, Yam and Mazoi drew timber therefor, and I did the whole in only one year. The Pharaoh came to inspect this work and at the coming of the king himself, standing behind the hill country, while the chiefs of Mazoi, Irthet and Wawat, did obeisance and gave great praise." This writing shows very clearly the use of Blacks as labor - and illustrates how Blacks were slowly but surely drawn into Egyptians society. Egyptian Racial Writings: The Twelfth Dynasty A sandstone stela found in the sanctuary of Wadi Halfa contains an account of the Nubian expedition of Pharaoh Sesostris I, which carried this king's wars to their southernmost limits. At the top of this stela there is a relief showing Sesostris I standing facing the Lord of Thebes, who says, "I have brought for thee all countries which are in Nubia, beneath thy feet." The god then gives to the king a line of bound captives, symbolizing Nubian towns. The inscription of Prince Amenim, which is carved into the stone in the doorway of his cliff-tomb in Benihasin, describes the Black lands as " vile." It reads as follows ("Kush" was one of the Black lands): "I passed Kush sailing southward, ... then his majesty returned in safety having overthrown his enemies in Kush the vile." The inscription on the stela of Sihathor, an "Assistant Treasurer" is now to be found in the British Museum., reads as follows: "I reached Nubia of the Blacks, ... I forced the Nubian chiefs to wash gold." "To prevent that any Black should cross" The final conquest of Nubia was attained by Sesostris III in 1840 BC. This king conducted four campaigns against the Blacks and erected several forts at strategic points, making Nubia a permanent colony of Egypt. The first Semneh stela inscription recounting the subjugation of Nubia by Sesostris III reads as follows: "Southern boundary, made in the year 8, under the majesty of the king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Sesostris III, ... in order to prevent that any Black should cross it, by water or by land, with a ship, or any herds of the Blacks; except a Black who shall come to do trading in Iken, or with a commission. Every good thing shall be done with them but without allowing a ship of the Blacks to pass by Heh, going down stream, forever." Egyptian Racial Writings: The Eighteenth Dynasty (1580-1350 BC) The inscription of Ahmose reads: "Now after his majesty had slain the Asiatics, he ascended the river...to destroy the Nubian Troglodytes; his majesty made a great slaughter among them." It is also recorded that females were taken for slaves. "The Black is helpless" The Tombos Stela of Thutmose I reads: "He hath overthrown the chief of the Nubians; the Black is helpless, defenseless, in his grasp. He hath united the boundaries of his two sides, there is not a remnant among the curly-haired, who came to attack; there is not a single survivor among them... They fall by the sword...the fragments cut from them are too much for the birds." In the annals of the great warrior king, Thutmose III, at the sixth Karnak pylon, there is a list which contains no less than 115 of the names of the towns and districts of the conquered Nubian regions. Another pylon at Karnak contains possibly four hundred towns, districts, and countries conquered in Nubia. Inscribed on a black granite tablet Karnak is the famous "Hymn of Victory" which reads as follows: "I have bound together the Nubian Troglodytes by the tens of thousands. The northerners by hundreds of thousands as prisoners." Lists of Blacks Captured Another remarkable inscription is to be found on the Semmeh Stela of Amenhotep III, now to be found in the British Museum in London. It reads as follows: "List of the captivity which his majesty took in the land of Ibbet the wretched. "List of Prisoners and Killed Living Blacks...........................150 heads Archers.................................. 110 heads Female Blacks....................... 250 heads Servants of the Blacks.............. 55 heads Their children.......................... 175 heads Total...................................... 740 heads Hands thereof........................ 312 United with the living heads.. 1,052" (Ends quote) The Red Haired Ramses II Egypt's last display of national vigor came with the red haired Pharaoh Rameses II (1292 - 1225 BC) but after this king Egypt entered into a steady period of decay, caused directly by the elimination of the original Egyptians and their replacement with a mixed population made up of Black (Ethiopian and Nubian), Semitic and the remnants of the original White population. This racially widely divergent nation was never again to reach the heights achieved by the First, Second or the first part of the Third Kingdoms. In these later years there were competing claimants to the pharaohs throne, many of whom, racially speaking, bore no resemblance to the original pharaohs at all. The mummy of the red haired Egyptian King, Ramses II, is on public display at the Egyptian Museum, Cairo. The true Egyptians had all vanished at the very latest by 800 BC, and the divided and weakened Egypt was easy prey to numerous invaders, some Semitic, some Nubian and some Indo-European, none of whom established any sort of permanent rule. The most prominent Nubian invaders set up a new kingdom, claiming to be the inheritors of the previous kingdoms, called today the 25th dynasty. This 100 year dynasty saw a number of mixed race rulers from 730 BC to 633 BC, all claiming to be pharaohs and attempting to revive some of the older practices, such as mummification. It was however an illusion: the true Egyptians had vanished, along with their society, and the Nubian dynasty sputtered out of its own accord. The last pharaoh of this Nubian dynasty, Taharka, whose mixed race ancestry is clear from sculptures, was driven from his throne by invading Assyrians, and it is from this fall of Taharka that historians formally date the fall of Egypt, although in reality the last true Egyptian had disappeared nearly two hundred years previously. Skulls The course of racial developments in Egyptian history has been backed up by anthropological research: the British anthropologist G.M. Morant produced a comprehensive study of Egyptian skulls from commoner and royal graves from all parts of the Egyptian lands and times. His conclusions were that the majority of the population of Lower Egypt - that is in the Northern part of the country - were members of the (now virtually extinct) Mediterranean White subrace. In the south (or Upper Egypt) this population pattern was repeated but this time showing a certain percentage of Black admixture (reflecting the proximity of the Nubian settlement). Significantly, Morant found that with the passage of time, the differentiation in skull types between Upper and Lower Egypt became less and less distinct, until ultimately they became indistinguishable - the surest sign of the absorption of the White subrace into the growing Nonwhite mass (Race, John R. Baker, Oxford University Press, 1974, page 519). Due to the unique almost "un-robbed" nature of Tutankhamen's tomb, many artifacts survive which show even more clearly what the racial situation in Egypt was at this time. One of Tutankhamen's thrones, the ecclesiastical chair, has on its' footstool the "Nine Bows" - the Egyptian name for the traditional enemies of Egypt. The finely crafted figures on the footstool are of nine Blacks and Semites tied together in chains. Their positioning on the footstool was so that when the pharaoh sat on his throne, his enemies would be under his feet. Thanks for understanding.

sherry
philadelphia, pa USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 11:10:21 (EDT)


Mr. Danquah, excellent job. You summed up with detail and brevity what many authoratative books have already proven. Thank you for setting the record straight. As for the red hair, Cheikh Ante Diop stated in one of his books, that the sustained chemical & radiological (wording?) analysis of the hair strands caused the hair to turn reddish; it was not so in the first place. If I remember correctly, he said that it also explained why parts of the skin appeared to be yellowish in color (an odd yellow, not white, black, pink, asian "yellow," etc.). Chemical and radiation is far more plausible than (as you pointed out) the possibility of his hair remaining that color for thousands of years. My policy is to try educate myself and black people. I do not believe in trying to teach these facts to people of European descent because this entire society has so warped their mindset that they CANNNOT believe the facts, even when placed directly before them. It is not genetic, or inherent, they are not defective, or sub-human or any other nonsense of that sort. It is simply a matter of institutionalized racism that pervades Western society and blinds their eyes from truth (although yes, there are many exceptions). This society breeds views that perpetuate the myth of white supremacy. Until society changes en masse, trying to argue the point with indiviudual caucausians is utterly, utterly, useless (as years of personal experience has evidenced). Well thanks again Mr. Danquah, you have once again elevated the conversion in this forum. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 12, 1999 at 09:29:00 (EDT)


Alafia to all! Brother Mack Audena, your post was as eloquently said as anyone could ever put it. An impressive analysis, I must remark. To all who argue over the color of the Kamau, there is only one fact that needs to be known. This is the recent confirmation that modern man (H. spaiens sapiens) walked first on the continent of Africa and spread, henceforth, from the continent as short Africoid people (Grimaldi man, the short and prognathist early inhabitants of India, and those elsewhere. Until someone can beyond reasonable doubt rebuke this discovery, it is feasible to say that the Kamau were a Black African people. Some one pointed out the red hair of Ramses, but asked yourself, "How could a ninety year old man still have red hair?"!?! Modern-day reddish haired Europeans do not retain their hair color at such a late age. We would be surprised if Brad Pitt was ninety and still had his red hair. So by using today's reddish haired population, we can prove the reddish hair of Ramses to be fictitous, if not a blatant attempt to de-Africanize, by any means neccessary. As an anthropological student, I will tell you that even bone structure analysis is now considered to be riddled with fault. Many scientists do not judge by facial structure alone. Most [scientists] opt to test any DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) still existing to apply gnosis of ethnicity and then to confirm that hypothesis. But for those still amused by skeletal 'games', rest assured that any skeletal study will conclude that Black Africans were the majority from pre-dynastic Kemet to the early Greek authority era. Even the blatantly racist "Encyclopedia Britannica" confirms this, no matter how subtly put. So where have you got your information? To further educate on the terminology of cranial features, I introduce you to the terms "doliocephalic" and "mesocephalic", as well as, their implied "racial" associations. Doliocephalic, in layman terms, means "long-headed" and is, according to archeologists and anthropologists, alike, a racial indicator of the "Negroid" or the Africoid race. However, mesocephalic, which means medial or medium cranium, is an indicator of the Indo-European people, with one exception, the mixed-Aryan Blacks of the Indian Subcontinent. If we compare the heads of the known pharoahs along the crania lines, created by European classifiers, we will find that the Kamau (Egyptians) are, by crania definition, Black African. One may asked what about the other facial features, such as prognathism (a typical indicator of Africoidness), well, what about it? The Khoisan complex in Southwest Africa, who cannot be mistaken for white, are not prognathistic in skull morphology, either. One trait the Kamau do show is alveolar prognathism (prognathism of the upper jaw), which is reminiscent to the Twa and Mbuti peoples of Central Equatorial Africa. No European people have this trait as an ethnic characteristic, however, although alveolar prognathism is not pronounced in average-sized Africans, there is still a slight incidence of occurrance. Lastly, to finally close this post, I refer each and all to the portraits of the Kamau, where, although many distinctly ethnic features are not presented, one particular phenomenon can be observed. It seems, as if, the Kamau took much time and work to reveal to us, modern-day searchers, their kinky hair. This is done in the form of tightly wrapped spirals on the heads of many aristocratic men and officials. What is the explanation of this? It will be interesting to see what the academic powers-that-be have to say, because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that those spiral hair tufts are, "naps". Odabo...One love all.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Monday, October 11, 1999 at 20:24:16 (EDT)


cool

psuedo <x>
Age: 18, OR USA - Monday, October 11, 1999 at 14:58:20 (EDT)


Why do you people come here spreading your racist lies. Are you afraid of the truth?If the the Egyptian were so white then why did the greeks and roman call them melanpods(blackmen)?Have you ever read hereditus histories hhe clerly says the Egyptian were black.Why the kemit mean country of the black men? AS for ramasees having red hair many etiopians have red hair and theyre not white in fact him having red hair proves that he was an ethiopian the egyptians were to the etiopians what the germans are to the austrians or the irish are to the scots the same race separated by time.Its right under your nose your just afaid to admit it if an egyians walked up to and his skin wasas black as coal youd probley still say he was white i feel sorry for you.what do know about egypt that Mr clegg dosent!PS Youve pissed me off now

Osirius
USA - Monday, October 11, 1999 at 12:29:14 (EDT)


This must be the most stupid thing I´ve ever seen. First, nobody denied Egypt is African, off course it is, just not Black African. Second, nobody denied the Egyptians were mixed up with Blacks (Tutanchamon for instance), however, this was at a late stage and is usually thought of as an explanation to why the Egyptian civilization declined... Some Egyptians were even blonde, the early Egyptians were white, gradually being mixed up with others, including Blacks (Nubians). This is all so dumb it´s embarrasing. If you have to invent proof that you can be civilized it´s just a proof of the opposite.

Carl <Kalle@yahoo.mail>
Swe - Monday, October 11, 1999 at 09:34:06 (EDT)


No, you are very wrong. First off, in ancient Eygpt, there were blacks...black slaves. I have studied Eygptology for many years. Let me start with some startling facts, and then you may see for yourself. King Hor, had "blue eyes". If you ever get the wonderful chance/opportunity to visit Eygpt, visit the museum in Cairo, his statue is on display there. Ramses II had red hair, and scientific studies have proven that it was red hair from that of a caucasion, not of the negroid. Modern forensics can tell the race of skeletal remains, by studying the bone structure(s) of the body. King Ramses was from the caucasion race, not only from studies performed on his red hair on his head, but by his bone structure. Also, Tutankhamen, within his tomb, there were many discoveries of the "racial" division within Eygpt during his time. Tutankhamen left behind many artifacts within his tomb that we can learn from today. For example, on his shoes, there is a black man on them, and within the walls of his tomb it tells the story of his shoes. It says that everytime the king would walk he wanted to "crush" the enemies of Eygpt with his feet. He also had several different images found on different items within his tombs , showing the bondage of black slaves, etc. I could go on and on about the findings within his tomb, but I will get on to some other important facts. Also within the walls of the pyramids it says that the Pharoahs daughter had blonde hair and blue eyes. There have been several findings of mummies within the ptramids with long blonde hair and nordic bone structures, which is caucasion. In heirogylphs, written within the walls, it reads of the taking of slaves from nubia and other southern areas. Ancient love letters have been found, in Eygpt, that tells stories of love, and the color of ones skin...as being white, fair. ***Let me remind you, this did not come from any "white mans" history books, this is directly off the walls inside of the pyramids. Its still there today, for any and all to read. Now, there is no disputes that Eygpt grew darker as time progressed. This was due to race-mixing..with slaves etc. Eventually Eygpt fell, and all that is left is the momuments, and stories of a once great country, which now is no more than a third world country. I'll come back here and post all of the references that are needed, to prove these facts. I had to write this much because I tend to get tired of those people who claim ancient Eygpt was black , when in all reality, it wasnt.

sherry
USA - Monday, October 11, 1999 at 00:51:18 (EDT)


This is in response to Curtis' comment in this website on Tuesday, October 5, 1999 at 11:22:08 (EDT). I would like to ask Brother Quabena Danquah and others to excuse my reference to religions but I am compelled to do so for two reasons. Firstly, I felt like I had to give to credit to the Kamau for their influence on all religions because this site is devoted to the recognition of Kemet and its contribution to civilization. Further, as I have said before, I believe that all religions are the recognition by individual cultures and their accounts of the Creator. Furthermore, rightful and accurate practices of each and any religion are equally valid. However, I don't advocate Christianity or Islam because after having the truth hidden from us for so long we should make the statement that our African people are and were not inferior for the belief and practice of their religion (refer to Conner Cain's statement in this guest book on Wednesday September 1, 1999 at 18:40:20 (EDT)). First of all did Hebrew influence Kemet or the other way around. According to the Bible the Hebrew entered Kemet with 70 nomadic shepherds. It seems to me more likely that Kemet and its many fascinations would influence this small group of people. The influence Kemet had on the Hebrews can be seen where it says that Moses was "learned in all the ways of the Egyptians." In addition the practice of circumcision and baptism, according to the Bible, did not begin until after the proposed exodus of the Hebrews. Circumcision and baptism were both long traditional practices of the Kamau. As for Christianity, here is a quote from http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/africachristianity.html : In Egypt Ausar was the man-god who was killed and brought back to life thus giving the world the first notion of "the Resurrection." Ausar then became the great Judge of the deceased. Auset, Ausar's wife, was said to have become impregnated by her husband's spirit while he was dead. She gave birth to a child named Heru in the world's first "Immaculate Conception." At his birth a host of deities and wisemen were said to have honored him. Some believe the birth of Heru was commemorated on December 25th when the sun was in the zodiacal sign of Capricorn. Capricorn was also known as the Stable of Augeas; so the infant Heru (Sun/Son) was said to have been born in stable. Thus Ausar, Auset and Heru made for the world's first Holy Trinity. The story of the resurrected God-King can be found among the Khoi and San peoples of southern Africa as early as 2,000BC. It is only in Africa that the story is this old. Often called, "the mouthpiece of Africa," Egypt's location gave it contact with the Near East. Not surprisingly, years later the story of the God-King and his divine son appear in many other cultures. This includes Krishna of India (1200BC), Tammuz of Syria (1160BC), Iao of Nepal (622BC), Quetzalcoatl of Mexico (587BC), Mithra of Persia (600BC) and others. Jesus the Christ of Hebraic folklore would be the most recent addition to this pantheon. Pictured above are Ausar, Auset and the infant Heru. This version of Auset and Heru would become the model for Mary and Jesus throughout the Christian world. (Photo and Information courtesy of Man, God and Civilization and Egyptian Mythology) Must we believe that the story of Jesus was being passed down orally and then misinterpreted by the Kamau. In fact, it is because of Christianity's "we are all imperfect [and] need a savior" for already righteous and civilized people attitude that White Supremacy and Imperialism arose. All religions are valid because they are individual cultures ideas of God. If you look at all religions you will see that they are conveying the same message only they are catered to the culture of the people. Although there is nothing wrong with the correct practice of Christianity (other then the fact that you worship a man whose potential is the same as your own) I feel that we must return to your African Spirituality or forever admit that African way of life was inferior to that of Europeans who forcefully converted them. Christianity in its present form is not true because it is misinterpreted largely to cater to the European individualistic nature. It is said that Black ruled the world and "victimized" the Whites. Where is your evidence? The Greeks were accepted by the Kamau and taught, not enslaved. Although Blacks were not always peaceful, I don't think our inequities went as far as raping and pillaging land from every people of this earth other then themselves. Furthermore, European individualistic and profit hungry ways are the cause of loss of the world's biodiversity and extinction of large amount of animal life, not to mention countless environmental and health problems. You say that Indians don't by the "Aryan Myth." Well, many people still don't buy that Kemet was Black. The evidence is there for the invasion of the Aryans whether they accept it or not. The Aryans left monuments of their likeness and writings describing the fairness of skin color. This is why they established the racist and cruel caste system. If you know the criteria of language you will see that Ebonics satisfies all of them. This is the reason why linguist debate over the issue. If Ebonics is simply a dialect then we can say the same of White American Standard English because it is not the same language spoken in England. In fact, the only reason why it isn't a separate language is because blacks don't have a sovereign nation. The difference between Ebonics and the dialect spoken by Hispanics is that they have another language to speak; Africans were stripped of their own. Furthermore, other ethnic groups were able to come into America and readily assimilate into the society as opposed to Africans who, fortunately, couldn't do that because of apparent differences. We shouldn't extinguish this developing language but rather we should develop it and perhaps one day people will have to learn to speak it to deal with a great group of people. Lastly, I identify with Kemet and the Kauma because today's white society aspires to make Black people believe that they had no contribution to history and because the truth that the Kauma was Black is yet unknown. That doesn't mean we leave out the rest. I personally identify with the Ausar Auset Society which focuses on the religions of three ancient Black Civilization- Canaanites, Kemet, and the Dravidians. In addition, because of society's influence, in order for to empower the mind of our people; they have to associate themselves with what is valued in today's society. The one thing I must agree with you on is that Europe was never civilized. Although Neter is a God of all people, I think Europeans have strayed the furthest from her/him/it. And yes, Black people will come back to power, but when we come back to power it won't be from the enslavement and theft of the land of others. It will be because we begin to love ourselves.

Mack Audena aka Menes <mpast7@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pittsburgh, PA USA - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 22:32:44 (EDT)


Hello from Scotland

Myles Clegg <Myles.clegg@seeglasgow.com>
Scotland - Sunday, October 10, 1999 at 12:11:28 (EDT)


I think I'm in pain. I'm actually cringing. I am beginning to see why Mr. Danquah has such an aversion to religious dicussions in this forum. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 18:20:43 (EDT)


EVEN YOU Kwabena Adofo Danquah CANN'T HELP YOUR SELF FRM TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE AND RELIGEN IT SEEM, BUT I THINK YOU DON,T WANT TO HERE THE TRUTH. IF SO I AM STILL GOING TO TELL YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE SO YOU CAN NOT SAY I DID KNOW. IF I DON'T TELL YOU THEN I WILL HAVE TO ANSWER THE ALL MIGHTY AND I AM NOT GOING TO DO THAT. SO SHOLAM FOR NOW.

PAUL
USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 14:26:23 (EDT)


EVEN YO Kwabena Adofo Danquah CANN'T HELP YOUR SELF FRM TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE AND RELIGEN IT SEEM BUT I THAT YOU DIDN,T WAS TO HERE THE TRUTH. IF SO I AM STILL GOING TO TELL YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE SO YOU CAN NOT SAY I DID KNOW. IF I DON'T TELL YOU THEN I WILL HAVE TO ANSWER THE ALL MIGHTY AND I AM NOT GOING TO DO THAT. SO SHOLAM FOR NOW.

PAUL
USA - Friday, October 08, 1999 at 14:24:08 (EDT)


A Bit off topic, but still related to black issues. Was former Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown Murdered? Decide for yourself, Jesse Jackson thought it was a real possibility (at least at one time, for whatever that's worth). See, http://www.newsmax.com/brown_docs/ and http://www.newsmax.com/brown_docs/page1.shtml

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, 27 USA - Thursday, October 07, 1999 at 09:06:52 (EDT)


PYRAMIDS FOUND IN GREECE! Go to www.ancientgr.com/ Proof of an African invasion!!!!!!!

Anubis
USA - Thursday, October 07, 1999 at 05:57:46 (EDT)


Alafia to all, Bro. Curtis, I see we have much in common. The articles you have relayed to the guestbook are just a few I have noticed in previous days. I proposed a hypothesis earlier this year in one of my advanced anthropology classes that the Chinese people were Black. I used various genetic statistics to support my claim, as well as, the latest discoveries by fellow anthropologists and researchers. I found an intimate connection between the Khoisan (San and Khoikhoin) peoples of Southwest Africa and the Han (ethnic Chinese) of China. There is also studies that proved the greatest diversity occurs in Africa, which supports the "Eve theory" -the theory which fortified my agrument. 28 various Chinese populations have been linked genetically to the people of East Africa. Amazing! The Andamanese people of the Andaman Islands in the Indian Ocean are also showing strong genetic patterns congruent with indigenous Africans. These people are thought to have belonged to the same group as the Australian Aborgines, Papuans, New Guineans, and the Melanesians. Time is showing the African collective traveled and populated the world and the various "Black" groups across this planet are all genetically related into what I propose the superphylum of "Enia Dudu/Melanesians". Also, Bro. Curtis, to address your questions and concerns of Blacks in the Old and New Testaments. This is good and I'm not taking from that, but we don't need a book apparently by Black people to validate Black peoples' presence. If we are looking for the Black presence in the Bible, then are we saying the authors, themselves, were not Black. My sentiments are not anti-Christian, although many times it seems, Christians are anti-African. But that's a subject not needed to be entertained in this area. I have no qualms what anyone practices or believes, but I do care when one forces, subtlely or overtly, unwanted rhetoric upon other people's heads. I pray my words did not offend and hope my apology, if they [words] were, is accepted. Odabo! Also, the A.C.E. Foundation (Alkebulan Cultural and Educational Foundation) is genuinely seeking investors to help us implement vital community empowering projects for thr upcoming century. Anyone interested can email me @ Kwabena_Danquah@hotmail.com for more details. Modupe! Ase!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah, <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 18:53:24 (EDT)


Africans Might Have Jewish Ancestry (A.K.A. More evidence suggesting that the original Jews were black) http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may99/wz510a.htm "The Lemba, from South Africa and Zimbabwe, believe they were led out of Judea by a man named Buba." I promised that I wouldn't get into religion (and I won't) but let the historical aspect speak for itself. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 17:31:19 (EDT)


Genes hint Africa's Khoisan world's oldest people http://infoseek.go.com/Content?arn=a1628LBY395reulb-19990923&qt=Africa+jews&sv=IS&lk=noframes&col=NX&kt=A&ak=news1486 This news article (Reuters) discusses the evidence that the oldest existing ethnic group in the world is the Khoisan of Southern Africa. just more data pointing to the antiquity of black peoples. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 17:07:11 (EDT)


Atlantis in South America? See the newstory at http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/19991003/sc/bolivia_atlantis_4.html This may seem a bit bizarre or off topic, but it seems that a British officer (former) of the Royal Air Force, spent 20 years or so of his life trying to prove that the Lost City of Atlantis was in South America. he says that the evidence now is clear. Now by itself it may not be that important, but when you consider that Pyramids are in both Egypt/Nubia and South America, and that the original peoples of both of these lands were blacks (negroid,etc.), it may have real and far reaching implications. See my earlier postings about the close proximity of Africa and the Americas, as well as my link to the ABC News article dealing with the fact that the original Americans were blacks. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 16:56:49 (EDT)


Hetep Bros. Clegg and Danquah, I have a few questions. First, is it just my imagination (no pun intended) or do I detect a distinct abhorrance and hostility to any attempts by Africans who seek to uncover, clarify, and organize around the factual achievements and knowledge concerning Classical and Traditional African civilizations and cultures? Second, What would some of the implications be if significant portions of the worldwide African community removed themselves from the three thousand year old "northern cradle", judeo-christian/islamic, eurocentric conceptual incarceration imposed on African people? What do you see are the commonalities between our european detractors and those well-meaning Africans who can quote "Black facts" in the context of eurocentric intellectual, philosophical, and social mythologies who seek to deter the African-centered project?

rodney cash jr.
USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 11:01:35 (EDT)


Dear Kwabena Adofo Danquah and others, As I did at the blackconsciousness.com website, I likewise now apologize for what was a proud and arrogant response to your postings and the postings at the aforementioned website. I am not a religious fanatic, I am a Christian zealot; there is a difference. Yet in saying this, I am convicted of my own hypocrisy. Christ teaches that we are to be humble, longsuffering, patient, quick to listen and slow to speak, loving, etc. I displayed none of these attributes in my writings. Though I stand by much of what I said, I repent of the way I said it. I will say this however, you did not address some key issues I brought up. Namely, that blacks played an important role in both Old Testament and New Testament history and that this should be explored. Also, given the scarcity of the postings here, what does it hurt if some of us discuss the role of religion and faith in our history. We are not depriving others of the time & space necessary to discuss issues of archeology, anthropology, biology, genetics, etc. So what is the harm? I still see an anti-Christian bias. If I were to discuss indigenous African, Australian, and Indus Valley religions, I doubt you would be so opposed. Is it religion in general or just the “major” faiths that you oppose? But anyway, to keep the peace, I will not post any more messages pertaining to faith or religion. I do reserve the right to respond however, but only if a question is posed, and not a comment. May the Lord be with you all, according to his sovereign will. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 10:21:49 (EDT)


a thought : i notice that the comments written on this page are by men/what does that mean?is information circulated and discussed by the men....translated by the men/where are the women folk?

Muthoni Njogu <mnjogu@mail.usiu.ac.ke>
Nairobi, Kenya - Wednesday, October 06, 1999 at 04:44:29 (EDT)


Brother Curtis, I ask Olodumare that my words may not offend, but I must say your posts sound like the thoughts of a religious fanatic. Never once have I said we should omit the Creator from our discourses of African Civilization in it's entirety. However, religious preferences and interpretations should be discarded with in the context of this website because this only works to disable us in meaningless debates and feuds. It is good you are Christian but not all African people are Christian and to insist on proprogating your beliefs on a guestbook devoted to Kemetic studies, which dates before the Christian Era, is out of context and is un-African in content. We do not fight over our religious beliefs, unless we are inspired by imperialism, CULTURAL IMPERIALISM. Not everyone follows the Bible, many read the Qu'ran or as in my case, the sacred odu of Ifa. I would never force Ifa into these discussions, unless the situation calls for it and never shall this be done in a manner to explicitly encourage anyone to follow Ifa or to critize one for not following Ifa. These actions are beyond my power and authority and I choose not to engage in such a way. You spoke of being descended from people of the Ivory Coast, have you studied the Poro and Sande societies which are abound in that area? This is an adventure that well needs to be undertaken by you because this draws you closer to your ancestors, the people you seem interested in receiving your God-given right to strength from. Also, some of the issues you raise about the BlackConsciousness I.Q. Test, I disagree with, but that is another story. I hope my remarks do not stop us from working together and learning from one another, becasue no matter if we are Christian or Ab'orisa, we want to return our people to their glory and influence. In closing, I leave you with the Ifa odu Ose Meji, which says: "Endeavor earnestly to exercise diplomacy in all matters and at all times." Orile Afrika Ninu Amerika, dide dide lalafia. Ise Olorun tobi! (African nation in America, arise, arise in peace. God's work is great and mighty!) Egun mojuba iba e! (Ancestors I salute you) Ase Ase Ase-O!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah, Historical and Cultural Consultant <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, October 05, 1999 at 20:39:25 (EDT)


I see no reason to refrain from theological discussions here for several reasons (1) The very website uses biblical references. Consider the following quote that appears on the page right before you actually type in your comments. "Evidence From the Bible: The Bible states that "…[t]he sons of Ham [were] Cush and Mizraim [i.e. Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah and Sabtechah." According to Biblical tradition, Ham, of course, was the father of the Black race. "Generally speaking all semitic tradition (Jewish and Arab) class ancient Egypt with the countries of the black." If the Clegg series is willing to discuss the Bible, why can't I? (2) To address the history of black peoples (and all people for that matter) and not address the the creator is foolishness. Since history is truly "His Story," i.e., God's story. How can you expect me to leave him out. God guides history, he is sovereign and sees the end from the beginning. (3) We cannot truly know ourselves, (who we are, what we are, etc.) if we do not inquire of our being from the one who has placed us here. (4) Finally, The history of African people originates is found in the Bible (as is the history of all peoples). To prohibit the discussion of religion, spirituality, biblical truths, and the person of God, is to prohibit the discussion of a major aspect of our history, origins, and our very being. With the scarcity of posts on this website, I cannot see the harm in discussing all issues relevant to black history, as long as we do so in a civil and loving manner. Please remember that sharp rebuke, can very well be an act of love. The Bible so declares. Therefore I must reject your request, until the Clegg Series operators make it an official (written) policy. Sincerely, Curtis.............................................. (Sovereign Grace) Psalm 65:1 Praise waiteth for thee, O God, in Sion: and unto thee shall the vow be performed...4 Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST, and CAUSEST to APPROACH unto THEE, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 05, 1999 at 11:34:53 (EDT)


REGARDING THE BLACK IQ TEST AT www.blackconsciousness.com....I looked at your I.Q. test; it’s pretty weak. It is filled with anti-biblical inferences, incorrect historical data, and blatant racism. Please educate yourselves. If you knew your history, you would know that the high likelihood is that both Abraham and Moses were black, the original Israelites were black, and that the Bible and the God (the only true God) it reveals is a God of all men…not just blacks..not just whites…but ALL men. God is sovereign. (1)Contrary to popular myth, the “Aryans” (no such thing) did not “conquer” the Dravidians as your site infers. This is European propaganda, spread to strip the native (Black) Dravidians of the role they played in building the Indus Valley Civilization. Many Indians don’t by the “Aryan Myth” why do you? (2) already addreesed the second issue at this website (pertaining to the validity of the Old Testament), I will not rehash. (3) The moors did not civilize Europe contrary to what you infer, in fact, Europe was never very civilized in the first place. Look at where most of the major world wars originated from. Look at where many of the most savage acts of cruelty originated from. Europe may have been educated in the arts, sciences, etc., but only God can civilize a people. Europe had their education, plus God’s word (the Bible), so their sins were against knowledge, and they proved themselves to be like all men, most uncivilized. God civilizes by saving his own (his individual elect, out of EVERY race, color, and nation). So if you want to believe that any country, especially in Europe, is civilized, be my guest, but don’t lie to others. (4) Color-less people are called albinos, and even they have some color. Europeans are not colorless, open your eyes and you can see that they range from very pale to pink to brown, this is basic biology. (5) When blacks reigned throughout the entire world (and they did reign throughout the entire world) whites were victimized. They were hated, enslaved, and killed. History is cyclical, we (blacks) controlled at first (from man’s vantage point, it is God who really controls), now the whites appear to control, maybe in three hundred years it will be the blacks again, or the Asians, or Native Americans, who knows. But please don’t make it out to appear that blacks were always 100% peaceful, and perfect, and pure. This is historic revisionism as pathetic as what the Europeans did. We are all imperfect, that is why we need a Saviour (Christ). (6) Blacks are not the only race that call each other collectively, brother and sister. The Polynesians and Micronesians do it also, as well as many other Pacific Islander. You will argue, yes but the Pacific Islanders (like the Australian Aboriginal, the Maori of New Zealand, the Tongans & Fijians) are blacks. This is true to a certain extent, but many others have been thoroughly mixed (like the Samoans and Hawaiians) and yet they still refer to themselves this way. I hope you don’t fall into the trap of making everybody who is not direct European, black. That is as stupid as making everybody who is not directly from Africa white or “mongoloid.” (7) Eve was created from Adam’s Rib, God says so, so why do you persist in your rebellion?” (8) Ebonics was not intentionally created as a language, it is a dialect of English, just as the english dialects spoken within the hispanic, asian, and other immigrant or non-indegenous communities. It is a result of a poorer quality of education do to institutionalized racism, and systemic miseducation, please do not glorify it and make it into something it is not. (9) You identify with Egypt and Nubia yet you seem to be ignorant of the fact that black people were everywhere. Why not identify with the Grimaldi of Europe, the Shang dynasty of China, the original Sumerians, the Dravidians of the Indus Valley, and the Native Americans of the Americas (a recent story on ABC news reported that the earliest know inhabitants of the Americas were blacks, not asians. This was a huge discovery). My family descends not from the occultic Egyptians, but the peoples of what is now known as the Ivory Coast (anglicized version). These peoples were brought to the Carolina see islands and became commonly known as the Gullah. I would be satisfied being the descendant of a Masai shepherd or hunter. I don’t need to be the descendant of kings. If my great-grandfather was a doctor, and my grandfather was a doctor, and my father was a doctor, and yet I am a drunken bum on the street….Am I a doctor or a bum. Likewise, if all my ancestors were kings and I conduct myself as a vagabond, then I am a vagabond. Stop living in ancient history, and acknowledge the history we have as African-Americans and Caribbean peoples. (10) Finally, the test states “Mental slavery keeps a person away from knowledge and mastery of self?” This is foolishness. Mental slavery is the belief that man can ever TRULY know and master HIMSELF. God only can, and must, master us. He is the one who searches our hearts and inclines us unto righteousness. Man’s heart by nature is both deceitful and wicked. It is imperfect, it is the opposite of God. If you try to master it, you will succeed in one sense, you will be masterfully deceitful and wicked. You will be an absolute reprobate. Get over your vain self-love, and love God. Just let the foolishness rest…………………………. Psalm 65:1 Praise waiteth for thee, O God, in Sion: and unto thee shall the vow be performed....4 Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST, and CAUSEST to APPROACH unto THEE, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Tuesday, October 05, 1999 at 11:22:08 (EDT)


Theological inquiries, regardless if they are scripture, have their own place and time. This website is devoted to the study of Classical African Civilizations, which many of whom did not read or follow the Biblical scriptures. We cannot narrow our discussion to our personal beliefs, there would be no growth in our study of these civilizations. I practice Ifa and we have odus but I would never make the Odus the focal point of my post in this guestbook. There is nothing wrong in believing how you feel but we must be aware that proselytization has no place here. This only limits our learning. Odabo!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, Mn USA - Saturday, October 02, 1999 at 16:07:13 (EDT)


Pyramids found in Greece go to www.ancientgr.com/.Proof of an African invasion.

Anubis
USA - Saturday, October 02, 1999 at 04:29:23 (EDT)


scripture is not religion, religion is man made and not of GOD way to know him. So when I speak I speak on scripture and I have to tell everyone the true, because our Father in heaven is watching us.

PAUL
USA - Friday, October 01, 1999 at 10:34:26 (EDT)


Alafia everyone and dobale elders!!! I would like to ask everyone, including myself, to refrain from using any religious sentiments when we are writing in this guestbook. Many of us can become embroiled in fruitless "jihads" among ourselves over our conceptualizations of the Deity and the pertinent rituals we adhere to. Our cause in this guestbook/forum is to enhance the proliferation of information concerning the archaic Hapi Valley civilization of Kemet and other classical African societies. To interject religious preferences and interpretations into this discussion, although we are a spiritual people, will only sabotage the searching process and belittle the dispensed knowledge for otherwise competing ideologies of another caliber. We are African people, no matter, if we practice Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Ifa, Akan, or Kongo beliefs. The fact remains, especially for descendants of Africans exiled circa 1555-1862, we were scooped up from West Africa and stripped of the cultural and historical legacy of our Egun/ancestors. Let's not continue to hinder this discussion board by narrowing our focal point to a realm which needs not be discussed (due to emotional involvement and abuses which could occur), unless it is deemed relevant (meaning not stepping on other people's beliefs). Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Thursday, September 30, 1999 at 19:49:36 (EDT)


WHAT I SAY IS scripture AND I GAVE IT TO EVERYONE THAT READS THESE COMMENT, NOT IS FROM MY MIND BUT OUT OF THE BIBLE WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEE IT. WE HAVE HEARD MANY PEOPLE TEACH THE WORD THAT WAS NOT TRUE AND WE WERE TOLD A LIE BY MANY PEOPLE AND WE BELEIVE THEM. THE REAL TRUE IS HARD TO SEE AND MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BELIEVE THE TRUTH BECAUSE THEY WERE TOLD MANY LIES. THESE DAYS ARE THE END OF TIME AND THE TRUTH IS BEING SAID IF THE TRUE HUTS THEN LET IT BE BECAUSE IF IT HUTS SO BAD THEN MAYBE YOU WILL TRY TO FIND THE REAL ANSEWER I DID NOT KNOW THAT GOD HATES SOMETIME TOO, AND I READ WHERE HE SAID I HAT JACOB BROTHER BUT LOVE JACOB. SO MY FRIEND OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN SAY AND DO WHAT WE SOMETIME THINK HE WANTN'T SAY ARE DO. AND HE IS A GREAT AND MIGHTY KING AND I A SORRY THAT OUR EARTH FATHERS WANTED A EARTH KING, BECAUSE HE IS OUR KING AND ONLY KING THAT CAN RULE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL IN A HOLY WAY, FOR HE SAY BE HOLY BECAUSE I AM HOLY SO WE SHOULD BE LIKE HEM IN HOLINESS. SHALOM

paul
USA - Thursday, September 30, 1999 at 18:55:44 (EDT)


Were the Old & New Testament scriptures "stolen" from ancient Egypt? The answer is absolutely not. The Old testament believers tended to be 'simple' folk, they were fishermen, farmers, shepherds, etc. That is why the Egyptians despised them, 1) because they were shepherds, and 2) because they lacked the Egyptian 'sophistication.' Some Egyptian texts, though written before the Bible was put in book form, were corrupted versions of Biblical knowledge and events. Though the people of Yahweh didn't write the stuff down first, the revelations existed. God spoke to his people. Over centuries, these stories were passed down, and eventually written by men of other nations (Egyptians, Sumerians, etc.). What they wrote however was uninspired, corrupted, and incomplete accounts of what had been passed down for generations. The people of Yahweh however, had the direct (word of mouth) revelation from God, they did not need to rely on the corrupted writings of others. The book of Genesis covers events from the beginning of history. Thus even though the first five books (which includes Genesis) weren't penned until around 1440 B.C., what was written was 100% accurate because God preserved it. Now some of the Egyptian, Sumerian, and Babylonian writings were penned before 1440 B.C., and covered some of the same topics or events as the Old Testament, but they had been corrupted by thousands of years of being passed down without the inspiration and preserving of God. So yes some events written before the Bible was penned are addressed (inaccurately) by other nations, but only the God of the Bible preserved his story accurately. Trust the God of the Old and New Testament alone, and forsake the wisdom of this world. May God save as many of you as possible according to His sovereign will and mercy, in Christ Jesus our Lord Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 20:17:30 (EDT)


It is so sad to see our brothers and sisters conduct themselves so poorly in a public forum. One can know and appreciate the true history of black people without having to trash everyone else. Most white people aren't conspiring to keep black history hidden, because they have been lied to themselves. They are simply ignorant of history in general. It is only a handful of well-trained, and well-(mis)educated academics who perpetuate the lies to maintain their own value amongst the collegiate and other academic circles. Whether you call yourself Nefertiti, King Tut, or just Paul. Conduct yourself with dignity. There is nothing worse than trying to read edifying material while having to wade through wave after wave of the most ignorant and hateful nonsense. You can love your (black) self, without having to hate others. Why walk in the very sins of those who have oppressed us. Either rise above, or, quite simply, shut-up. But don't take up valuable space misquoting scripture, and twisting science to the 'nth degree of foolishness. If you want to discuss scripture, email me. The Black Muslim/Black Israelite views some are spewing, can easily be proven to be both unscriptural, and even worse, devilish A black man who wants to see our people progress (in Christ), not digress (in our wretchedness). Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 20:04:33 (EDT)


Here is another part of the bible you need to READ. This is talking about Isreal not the Isreal that is there now, but the real and true Irsrael people that or not there now, but one day will go back into there on land. read and you will here the word strangers the poeple are there now is called strangers by GOD. GOD SON SAID TO HIS FOLLOWERS AT THE TIME GO TO THE REMOTENESS PARTS OF THE EARTH AND FIND THE CHILDREN OF GOD,BECAUSE THEY AND NOT HERE IN Jerusalem, BUT HAVE WANT TO OTHER PARTS OF AFRICE. the greeces has taking over Jerusalem in EMMANUEL DAYS, AND IF YOU READ THE BIBLE YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL WOULD NOT GO IN Jerusalem BECAUSE OF THE GREECE. ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ISAIAH [1] For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. NOW READ THIS. THIS PART IS TALK ABOUT BLACKS IN AMERICA WHO WERE taken captive in the new king of Babylon now. [2] And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids:*** and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; ***and they shall rule over their oppressors.*** [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, [4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! [5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. [6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. NOW THE EARTH IS GOING TO REJOICE WHEN THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IS HURTING IT WITH ITS DESTRUCTION AND ARMIES [7] The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. [8] Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. [9] Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. [10] All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

PAUL
USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 12:34:28 (EDT)


Here is another part of the bible you need to READ. This is talking about Isreal not the Isreal that is there now, but the real and true Irsrael people that or not there now, but one day will go back into there on land. read and you will here the word strangers the poeple are there now is called strangers by GOD. GOD SON SAID TO HIS FOLLOWERS AT THE TIME GO TO THE REMOTENESS PARTS OF THE EARTH AND FIND THE CHILDREN OF GOD,BECAUSE THEY AND NOT HERE IN Jerusalem, BUT HAVE WANT TO OTHER PARTS OF AFRICE. the greeces has taking over Jerusalem in EMMANUEL DAYS, AND IF YOU READ THE BIBLE YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL WOULD NOT GO IN Jerusalem BECAUSE OF THE GREECE. ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ISAIAH [1] For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. NOW READ THIS. THIS PART IS TALK ABOUT BLACK IN AMERICA WHO take captive in the new king of Babylon now. [2] And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids:*** and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; ***and they shall rule over their oppressors.*** [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, [4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! [5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. [6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. NOW THE EARTH IS GOING TO REJOICE WHEN THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IS HURTING IT WITH ITS DESTRUCTION AND ARMIES [7] The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. [8] Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. [9] Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. [10] All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

PAUL
USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 12:30:05 (EDT)


it is good to see the truth. our heritage and wonderful history was taken from us and hidden for so long and it is good to actually see the truth. caucasions dont want us to know how great our people were. it kills them to know that we now know the truth about all that they have stolen from us and claimed for themselves. outstanding!!!!!!!!!!

ananias edwards <ananiasedwards@webtv.net>
Age: 28, wichita falls, tx USA - Wednesday, September 29, 1999 at 02:43:11 (EDT)


I have heard that many of the stories from the bible(Moses parting the red sea, etc.) were taken from Egyptian stories documented thousands of years before the bible was written. Do you have any referecnes to these writings?

R Hamilton <swtcarmel@aol.com>
Age: 36, Atlanta, GA USA - Tuesday, September 28, 1999 at 13:40:14 (EDT)


Alafia, I have read the recent posts concerning the likely ethnic (not racial) affiliation of the Brazilian fossils and have felt that I should add my two-cents in, as well. As far as the hypothesis of a Bering Strait crossing into the Americas by these ealry inhabitants, forget! These fossils have been dated to circa 11,500 years ago and were already in the "New World" before the mythical land bridge could occur. So goes that notion. The American aborgines have much in commom with African culture. Trust a devotee of African spirituality and thus, an intense student of African cultural traditions. Both First Nations (American aborgines) and Africans carry a martilineal line of descent and among many Southeastern and Woodland people, the sachems, mingoes, and other chiefs were chosen by the council or elder mothers (reminiscent of the Akan, Kemet, Kongo and others). The circle was a sacred symbol of both geographical groups, as a whole, both understood the power and representation of life which laid in the sacred and rever cipher (circle). The concept of a Supreme Deity, omnipotent and omnipresent to the point the Creator was seen in a myriad of things, was shared among these groups and the notion of the multitude of Divine expression, which were worshipped and revered, also brought the cultural ties closer. Dreamtime of the Australian Aborgines explains the Creation and the innerplay the Deity, spirits and the ancestors engage in with the living, physically-mortal society is all too familiar with African philosphical beliefs, as well as, certain, if not all, native people's beliefs. We find many who have not explored any indigenous culture, sometimes because of the apprehension of finding themselves in a un-Christian world or biased because of Eurocentric ideals, elevating themselves up as cultural custodians, when the opposite could be the case. If we study, we will find all three, Australian Aborgines, native Africans and American aborgines, evolved out of the same branch and that branch was first African and always Black. We find even Australian Aborgines inhabiting the southern strip of the Arabian Felix, which they have done for who knows how long. To end on a perceptive note, when we read the articles on the ABC NEWS site, we see the scientists saying Luiza was an African featured individual or in otherwords, an African, who may have belong to the Pacific (Oceanic) branch of the Black race. Not all Blacks are in Africa, you know. More superficially, accompanying a couple of the articles is a reconstruction of the skull and let me be the one to tell you, the face was African beyond any shadow of a doubt. You can't use look Black but wasn't, cause I can say I look Black but ain't, yet we know this not true. Odabo

Kwabena Adofo Danquah, Historical and Cultural Consultant <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Monday, September 27, 1999 at 20:04:30 (EDT)


Bob, What you say makes some sense, but answer this one question. If the Australian Aboriginian entered the Americas from the Bering Strait, why is it that the earliest fossils (note the plural) are found in South America, not North America or Alaska? The fact that we are finding the earlist bones in the south suggest that the original (black) inhabitants of the Americas were either truly indegenous (see my modern-day continental drift theory) or they originated from a land close by. Again, Africa at its closest point to the Americas is only about 3,000 miles away. Even if the Australaboriginals were in east asia, the trip is much, much further. Even though we may disagree, I thank you for your imput. Peace, and may God be with you. Curtis

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 20:19:28 (EDT)


Thhe Australian Aboriginees were once wide spread through east Asia thhey could of migrated across into Alaska.The culture of the American aboriginees had alot more in common with Australia than Africa.And again the Australian aboringees were treated more badly than Africans ever were.

Bob
USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 17:25:08 (EDT)


Bob, consider the following: Although Australian Aboriginees are blacks, there isolation probably caused the difference in their physical characters, but I agree they were still black, but 1. Scientists would probably rather say they were Aboriginees than Africans because of the bias against Africans. Look at a map, to say they came from Australia is ludicrous. 2. From the Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria, the distance to central Brazil is less than 3000 miles. From Egypt and Sudan (Nubia) the distance is about 6,000 miles. For them to come from Australia they'd have to have travelled well over 8,000 miles. Why is it easier to assume they came 8,000 miles from Australia than 3,000 miles from the Ivory Coast, Nigeria, or other nearby African region. 3. You ask, why would Africans travel to American when they could go other places. The fact that they went other places answers your question. Africans traveled by ship to China, India, and elsewhere, so why not Africa? 4. Why did the native Americans (American Indians) of South America tell the Spanish Conquisatdors that Blacks came from across the Ocean to trade with them BEFORE Europeans ever arrived. Read Ivan Van Sertimas book, I think it is called "They came before Columbus." Others beside Sertima address this issue, including the "priests" and others who travelled with the Spaniards. Even the name they used for gold was phonetically the same (almost), and the ratio of gold to copper (to produce a favourable scent) was the same in Africa and South America. Yes, black people are one. But don't take from the African blacks when the evidence points to them. When europeans and others say it is "Australian Aboriginees," they may be right, but more likely, they simply can't "believe" that Africans had the technology or intellectual ability to cross the seas to other continents. This is racism, and let us not play into it. Peace to you, and God bless. Maurice

Curtis <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 13:52:01 (EDT)


im charles colbert and i need assistence, i have just finished my latest script concerning black egypt if you want any part in it email: Pharoah53@hotmail.com the black egyptian will rise again!

charles colbert <pharoah53@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 12:36:39 (EDT)


THE MOVIE THE PRINCE OF EGYPT IS FAKE ALL FAKE EXCEPT THE story were god stepS IN. BLACKS OR PEOPLE NEED TO MAKE MOVIES THAT SHOW EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK.

AKHENATEN
Age: 15, BROOKLYN, N.Y. USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 09:06:03 (EDT)


DNA TELLS IT ALL WHAT YOU IGNORANT ASSES DONT KNOW IS YOU CANT GO AGAINST A DNA TESTING IT SHOWED THAT THE TRUE RACE OF EGYPT WAS BLACK HELLO DNA IS RIGHT YOUR WRONG STOP GOING AGAISNT THE DAMN TRUTH I RESPECT THE ONES WHO KNOW THEY WERE BLACK THERE SHOULD BE NO DEBATE YOU DUMMIES WHOEVER SAID AFRICANS COME FROM AUSTRALIA I WOULDNT DOUBT IT AFRICANS WERE ALL OVER THIS WORLD THE WHITE RACE IS BULLSHIT GOD DID NOT SELECT WHITE EVIDENCE IS IN THE BIBLE SAYS EGYPTIANS WERE DARK-SKINNED PEOPLE DARKER THAN MOSES THERES EVEN EVIDENCE THAT SHOWED ONE OF YOUR PRESIDENTS ABRAHAM LINCOLN HAD BRONZE-BROWN SKIN AND HAIR THAT COULD TURN AN AFRO NEVER MIND MY RUN ON SENTENCES

a black nefertiti
Age: 24, manassas, D.C. USA - Saturday, September 25, 1999 at 08:55:03 (EDT)


TO ALL YOU IGNORANT PEOPLE WHO SAY EGYPTIANS WERENT BLACK LET ME SAY SOMETHING TO SHUT YOU THE HELL UP DNA DNA IT PROVES EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK STOP BEING IGNORANT AND JEALOUS ALL BECAUSE A BLACK MAN RULED BEFORE LET ME SET IT STRAIGHT YOU JEALOUS FOOLS. WE ALL ARE AFRICAN WHITE, BLACK, INDIAN, MEXICAN THE FIRST HUMANS ON EARTH WERE IN AFRICA WHICH MEANS ADAM AND EVE ARE BLACK. WHITES ARE ALWAYS SAYING BLACKS ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD AND WERE GOING TO ELIMINATE THEM YEAH RIGHT COME TO THE GHETTO AND TRY TO ELIMINATE US OR DECREASE OUR NUMBER THE BLACKS THERE OVERRULE THE DARN POLICE WE MAKE AMERICA LOOK TOUGH AND MAKE OTHER COUNTRYS SCARED OF US. YOU, ME WE STILL COME FROM ARICA SO SHUT THE HELL UP

EGYPT WAS BLACK
Age: 15, VA USA - Friday, September 24, 1999 at 22:51:44 (EDT)


The first people in america were black australians not not africans.Some were wiped out others absorbed by the mongoloids.However a handful did survive in south Agentina their tradition much more akin to the native Australians.To look at them, they lok mongaloid but their skulls have negroid charactristics.I think its a more logical explaination for the "Nubian" Olmec heads like why would the nubians travel all thhe way across Africa and the ocean they could have gone anywhere.Teh olmec head lookalot more like native Australians than Africans. Peace

bob
USA - Friday, September 24, 1999 at 17:11:16 (EDT)


View the link at this ABCNEWS.COM website. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/luiza990921.html Or search the word Luiza in their (ABCNews') search engine if the site doesn't come up. The implications are astounding. Proof that the earliest peoples of the Americas were black "negroids." This is further proof that Negroids were everywhere, and played a massive part in world civilization. Notice that the oldest skull was found in Brazil. Then notice how close Brazil is to Africa (with only Peru or Chile in between). It makes since that either: 1. Black Africans had the ability thousands of years ago to cross the Atlantic Ocean; or 2. Continental drift occurred much more recently than scientists are willing to admit. Consider, the periods proximate to 3100 B.C. and 3114 B.C. are quite interesting. According to the Mayan Calendar, the earth was recreated in 3114 B.C. According to the Indians (of the Subcontinent/Asia) the Earth was recreated in 3100 B.C. (Kali Yuga). According to the Bible, using Harold Camping's chronology (the most accurate), Peleg would have been 49 years old in 3114 B.C. In the books of both Genesis and I Chronicles, the Bible states that in Peleg's day, the "earth was divided." So we see that in three dispersed regions, the Indian subcontinent, the Middle East, and South America, these peoples believed that the earth was divided or recreated sometime around 3100 B.C. What we may be viewing here is hard evidence that the continents seperated in relatively modern times. Validating also the Bible, Biblical events, and Biblical creationism. BTW, I am a reformed Christian, so I know my views differ from most of what the readers here will believe. Sincerely, Curtis Wildy

Curtis Wildy III <MCWildy3@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA - Wednesday, September 22, 1999 at 12:30:36 (EDT)


Three additional references on the ancient Kemetic roots of law: (1) Origin of the Conjugal Community (or Community Property Law), and The Manner of Judgments in and the Laws of Ancient Egypt; Politics and Jurisprudence in Ancient Media; and Government in Ancient Athens by Calvin Kephart. (2) "A New Source for the Study of the Judiciary and Law of Ancient Egypt: "The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant" by Nili Shupak in the Journal of Near Eastern Studies, vol.51, no.1 (January, 1992). The article discuss 'The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant,' as a form of a legal complaint to criticize the bureaucracy that provides information on law and judicial system of ancient Kemet. Of particular interest is the incident in which an official spreads his garment on the public road, which can be interpreted as a symbolic legal act denoting possession. (3) The Law of Greco-Roman Egypt in the Light of the Papyri, 332 B.C.-640 A.D. by Raphael Taubenschlag (New York : Herald Square Press, 1944).

Itibari M. Zulu <Imz@Amen-Ra.net>
Age: 46, Los Angeles, CA USA - Wednesday, September 22, 1999 at 11:28:20 (EDT)


May I add? What if the accepted fact was that the Germans were Black, would it been revenge-inspired for one to dismiss this myth and fiction? Could you honestly say we can evolve a truthfully study of German people, if we considered them, outside general European history and ethnography? Could we really have scholarly uplifting dialogue and research if the academic assumptions of Germans were anything but members of the Nordic local group of the Human family? No, race is not important in empirical equations, but in a world so structured and dominated by the perceived notion of race, one has no recourse. We all wish of an ideal world, unfortunately, as long as, a corrupted world influences norm of learning, we must refute corruption!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <Kwabena_Danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, September 21, 1999 at 17:18:08 (EDT)


Unfortunately, Chris, your statements are unfound. I am not driven by revenge, no actually I'm driven by reciprocity. Race does not measure to have the emphasis you, yourself, place on it. If people can provide conclusive evidence to prove the Kamau were Black, why deny this? It is those who overlook painstaking research confirming ethnicity who are criven by race and a desire to maintain the status quo or 'Don't rock the Boat' mentality. Is it evident that deception lurchs upon the horizon in Egyptology and mis-information is deemed scholarly. What is so inherently wrong about re-examining the past biases and placing the newly uncovered truth in its proper place. Should we be destined to live for centuries believing past-old theories and their new images, especially when they could be incorrect. You, my friend, are looking to disclaim any individual who asserts the Africoid ethnicity of the Kamau as narrow-minded or more blatantly, racist. This is not always the case. One can add valuable information to the world's community and insist the Kamau is Black. Just as one can prove the accepted linguistic classification of Afro-Asiatic (Hamito-Semitic) is not supported strongly enough to supply it with inrefutable automony. Besides, the Afro-Asiatic superphylum was itself created by men inspired by turn of the century supremacists. If we can prove that the Kamau were Black and that they indeed created an African civilization, the studies of the Kamau would not be so fragmented and culturallu isolated because we could, beyond racial and cultural biases, that the Hapi Valley Civilization was influenced by and did influenced "Sub-Saharan" cultures and societies. With this said, could it be you who may have the clouded judgement?

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <Kwabena_Danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, September 21, 1999 at 17:06:20 (EDT)


look closly at these words and here the word of our Lord God of Isreal, and you will find out who is the Devil. ******************************************************** ISAIAH [12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! ******************************************************************************* ***THIS NEXT PART IS TALKING ABOUT HE WILL GO INTO SPACE BY GOING ABOVE THE CLOUDS** ******************************************************************************* [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. [15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. **************************************************************************************** ***THIS PART TELL YOU WHO HE IS AND THAT IS A MAN OR PEOPLE***************************** *** AND THE WORLD A WILDERNESS THIS MEANS USEING A BOOM TO DESTROY THE WORLD******** **** AND IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT ALL NATIONAL WHOs WITH HER ****************************** *************************************************************************************** [16] They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; [17] That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? [18] All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. [19] But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. [20] Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. [21] Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. [22] For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. THERE ARE MANY THING THIS PART IS TALKIN ABOUT AND YOU NEED TO READ ALL OF IT. AND THE BEGAINING IS TALK ABOUT WHEN WE BLACK AFRICA AMERICAN WE GO BACK TO OUR ON LAND AND WHEN WE GO BACK GOD SAID THERE WILL BE strangers IN OUR LAND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO IS THERE NOW. AND THEY ARE NOT THE REAL CHILDREN OF ISREAL BUT IF THEY ARE RIGHT WITH GOD THEY WILL BE CONVERT, BUT NOT BY BLOOD BUT BY WAY OF LIFE AND THEY WILL NOT RULE THE LAND BUT ALL THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL. Many people will see this and will not believe but some will. GO and perpare youself and be not fool by what man said, but give your self to the word of the Lord. and let him guide you into the truth and be ready the hear the word of our God of Isreal. SHolam brothers and sisters. paul

paul
USA - Tuesday, September 21, 1999 at 14:32:43 (EDT)


To Kwabena Adofo Danquah, and all those like YOU...Your anger clouds your judgment, your fear hurts your spirit, and your need for revenge keeps you from rising above the madness perpetrated by MANY people. Thats WHY you care so much about race.

Chris
Age: 25, USA - Tuesday, September 21, 1999 at 12:23:53 (EDT)


look closly at these words and here the word of our Lord God of Isreal, and you will find out who is the Devil. ******************************************************** ISAIAH [12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! ******************************************************************************* ***THIS NEXT PART IS TALKING ABOUT HE WILL GO INTO SPACE BY GOING ABOVE THE CLOUDS** ******************************************************************************* [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. [15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. **************************************************************************************** ***THIS PART TELL YOU WHO HE IS AND THAT IS A MAN OR PEOPLE***************************** *** AND THE WORLD A WILDERNESS THIS MEANS USEING A BOOM TO DESTROY THE WORLD******** **** AND IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT ALL NATIONAL WHOs WITH HER ****************************** *************************************************************************************** [16] They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; [17] That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? [18] All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. [19] But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. [20] Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. [21] Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. [22] For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. THERE ARE MANY THING THIS PART IS TALKIN ABOUT AND YOU NEED TO READ ALL OF IT. AND THE BEGAINING IS TALK ABOUT WHEN WE BLACK AFRICA AMERICAN WE GO BACK TO OUR ON LAND AND WHEN WE GO BACK GOD SAID THERE WILL BE strangers IN OUR LAND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO IS THERE NOW. AND THEY ARE NOT THE REAL CHILDREN OF ISREAL BUT IF THEY ARE RIGHT WITH GOD THEY WILL BE CONVERT, BUT NOT BY BLOOD BUT BY WAY OF LIFE AND THEY WILL NOT RULE THE LAND BUT ALL THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL. Many people will see this and will not believe but some will. GO and perpare youself and be not fool by what man said, but give your self to the word of the Lord. and let him guide you into the truth and be ready the hear the word of our God of Isreal. SHolam brothers and sisters.

paul
USA - Tuesday, September 21, 1999 at 12:09:14 (EDT)


The only reason why angl-saxon males have dominated many civilization is because of the invention of the gun (By chinese). Physically and intelectually those with higher levels of melanin are dominate.

chango <@dont have one>
Age: 9999, stamford, ct USA - Tuesday, September 21, 1999 at 11:19:33 (EDT)


I wish this did not matter so much, the question of what color the Egyptians were...they were a fascinating people. To me the debate seems irrelevant. Of course I'm younger; my perspective is different; I see no reason for preoccupation with the outer appearance. My friends are of all colors; I may be more than one, myself. We descend from the same two people long ago in Africa---they were not Black or White, but the first children of a God who made no color distinctions. I hate the fact that a reaction against prejudice is necessary. But I will work for unity rather than becoming defensive; there is one race on this planet and it is Human.

Abigale <arschaef@king.edu>
Age: 18, USA - Monday, September 20, 1999 at 19:07:35 (EDT)


If I may, Chris? We are not only concerned with the skin-deep attributes of the Kamau, we are fully aware of the capacity of the Kamau and honor and respect that. However, one does not have to look far to see, myth after myth being taught on Tel-lie-vision in the form of recreational (Re-Create-tion [the process of recreating]) movies and propoganda-motivated "educational" documentaries. Images play a profound role in "education" and the effects images produce on the psyche is more than powerful. How do images affect children? I'll tell you with one word, SOCIALIZATION!!! It is not us who are advocating supremacy, it is those who close their ears and eyes to documented research. It is to the benefit of humanity if we can eradicate Supremacists ideas and theories. Those who brush aside this issue as scientific irrelevant and scholarly insignificant, are the ones who must question themselves, not us? We are trying to expose lies and fictions-as-truth hypotheses. Therefore, it is those individuals who make it their business to research and document the ethnicity of the Kamau, who are doing a more prestigious scientific service and discovery. If the color and race was insiginficant and humanity was truly seen as equal, America, Europe and its White Supremacy hegemony would not be existing. If color and race was truly respected everyone living on American soil and joyously benefitting from it luxuries would feel like criminals, if not being tried from manslaughter and theft as international war criminals. Until these things happen do not feed me, the WHY questions and the YOU statements.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <Kwabena_Danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Monday, September 20, 1999 at 18:18:46 (EDT)


To virtually everyone who has contributed to this site: Why are you so obsessed with the skin color of the ancient Egyptians? Like people of any racial bias, you are interested in truth that is only skin deep. Underneath that, the Egyptians, like people of any race, creed, religion, etc., were capable of and achieved many remarkable accomplishments...but they also committed many heinous crimes against humanity. We are all one humanity you idiots...simple, ignorant and cruel at times, but always with the potential for doing amazingly good and productive deeds. Get over skin color. It's a dead issue.

Chris
Age: 25, USA - Monday, September 20, 1999 at 11:58:09 (EDT)


Hetepu and how are you, Brothers and Sisters I looking for more information on the propose building of the KAJBAR DAM IN SUDAM CAN YOU HELP. EMAIL WITH ANY DETAIL.

Inkingaura <kmtchurch@hotmail.com>
London, England - Saturday, September 18, 1999 at 09:58:53 (EDT)


Welcome back, missed you. "Ra"

A. Raheim <RasSpirit@aol.com>
Age: 47, B-mor, Md USA - Wednesday, September 15, 1999 at 07:52:39 (EDT)


look closly at these words and here the word of our Lord God of Isreal, and you will find out who is the Devil. ******************************************************** ISAIAH [12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! ******************************************************************************* ***THIS NEXT PART IS TALKING ABOUT HE WILL GO INTO SPACE BY GOING ABOVE THE CLOUDS** ******************************************************************************* [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. [15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. **************************************************************************************** ***THIS PART TELL YOU WHO HE IS AND THAT IS A MAN OR PEOPLE***************************** *** AND THE WORLD A WILDERNESS THIS MEANS USEING A BOOM TO DESTROY THE WORLD******** **** AND IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT ALL NATIONAL WHOs WITH HER ****************************** *************************************************************************************** [16] They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; [17] That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? [18] All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. [19] But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. [20] Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. [21] Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. [22] For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. THERE ARE MANY THING THIS PART IS TALKIN ABOUT AND YOU NEED TO READ ALL OF IT. AND THE BEGAINING IS TALK ABOUT WHEN WE BLACK AFRICA AMERICAN WE GO BACK TO OUR ON LAND AND WHEN WE GO BACK GOD SAID THERE WILL BE strangers IN OUR LAND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO IS THERE NOW. AND THEY ARE NOT THE REAL CHILDREN OF ISREAL BUT IF THEY ARE RIGHT WITH GOD THEY WILL BE CONVERT, BUT NOT BY BLOOD BUT BY WAY OF LIFE AND THEY WILL NOT RULE THE LAND BUT ALL THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL. Many people will see this and will not believe but some will. GO and perpare youself and be not fool by what man said, but give your self to the word of the Lord. and let him guide you into the truth and be ready the hear the word of our God of Isreal. SHolam brothers and sisters.

PAUL
USA - Monday, September 13, 1999 at 09:50:09 (EDT)


look closly at these words and here the word of our Lord God of Isreal, and you will find out who is the DIVEL. ******************************************************** ISAIAH [12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! ******************************************************************************* ***THIS NEXT PART IS TALKING ABOUT HE WILL GO INTO SPACE BY GOING ABOVE THE CLOUDS** ******************************************************************************* [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. [15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. **************************************************************************************** ***THIS PART TELL YOU WHO HE IS AND THAT IS A MAN OR PEOPLE***************************** *** AND THE WORLD A WILDERNESS THIS MEANS USEING A BOOB TO DESTROY THE WORLD******** **** AND IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT ALL NATIONAL WHO WITH HER ****************************** *************************************************************************************** [16] They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; [17] That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? [18] All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. [19] But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. [20] Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. [21] Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. [22] For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. THERE ARE MANY THING THIS PART IS TALKIN ABOUT AND YOU NEED TO READ ALL OF IT. AND THE BEGAINING IS TALK ABOUT WHEN WE BLACK AFRICA AMERICAN WE GO BACK TO OUR ON LAND AND WHEN WE GO BACK GOD SAID THERE WILL BE strangers IN OUR LAND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO IS THERE NOW. AND THEY ARE NOT THE REAL CHILDREN OF ISREAL BUT IF THEY ARE RIGHT WITH GOD THE WILL BE CONVERT, BUT NOT BY BLOOD BUT BY WAY OF LIFE AND THEY WILL NOT RULE THE LAND BUT ALL THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL. Many people will see this and will not believe but some will. GO and perpare youself and be not fool by what man said, but give your self to the word of the Lord. and let him guide you into the truth and be ready the hear the word of our God of Isreal. SHolam brothers and sisters.

paul
USA - Thursday, September 09, 1999 at 15:39:44 (EDT)


This is my frist visit to this web site. I find the truths revealed here, as all truths, as a breath of fresh air. As a sister from the old school, I have seen, heard and done many things. The information exchanged here gives me great hope for our future. All people can not be pleased all the time, however, If sites like this did not exist how long would it take for us to be educated? I will share the pages of this site with my 13 grandchildren for their home-school lessons. As for myself...it is NEVER too late to learn. Keep my lessons coming! PEACE!

Mattie (MA'AT) Lovett <Mattie297@aol.com>
Age: 50, NJ USA - Tuesday, September 07, 1999 at 23:41:34 (EDT)


if the test is or isn't, the mummies may have been people who was passing through. many people visit africa even in that time. Black from other parts of africa came there to and other races did to. "Egypt was a place like the US and all came and went, so don't think that testes can find all answers. paul

paul
USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 17:57:49 (EDT)


To: THE MAJORITY Dr. Keith Black-Brain Tumor Dr. John Norman-Heart Transplant Dr. Charles Drew-Plasma process Dr. Ernest Everett Just-Zoologist, Biologist, Physiologist, and Research Scientist. ALL Black! And many more Successful BLACKS can be listed. Don't make me list the KINGS and QUEENS of EGYPT. PEACE.

Tanya <afterdarkent@hotmail.com>
Age: 29, District Heights, MD USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 16:14:37 (EDT)


ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK. Listen. You might learn something. THE MAJORITY tries their best to tear down facts, because THE MAJORITY can't handle TRUTH! You think blacks are not intelligent and will not take the initiative to step to your face with scientific proof. We will continue to do OUR own research. We don't have to argue about ignorant anonymous comments because we will still continue searching for truth. For the Record: I can give you the names of alot of BLACK SCIENTISTS. PEACE.

Tanya <afterdarkent@hotmail.com>
Age: 29, District Heights, MD USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 14:59:48 (EDT)


Alafia, Ms. Conner, I found your statements in a previous post rather degrading and uninformed. You mention of a regressing in African people, there was no regression. Just because they didn't exhibit the ideals of CIVILIZATION which you hold dear, does not at any time reflect a moral and technological downfall. You can not judge people according to some moral stick, just as I can't judge you by my standards. I am a devotee of African traditional religion and will firmly defend by beliefs as tenacious as anyone else. It seems your post was psycho-babble because you entered a website devoted to the proper place of the Kamau, yet you use your "Egyptians were BLACK" as a forum to attempt to humiliate the descendants of these nation-builders. More importantly, you then say you will not allow your lineage to regress, well, I have news from you, in the area of metaphysicalconcepts and spiritual evolutionary methods, the Western world is the regressed entity. Although, we can not judge, this seems to be a FACT. Before you speak, think of about what you are saying. It seems as if you are writing with an agenda. Odabo

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, September 03, 1999 at 12:21:24 (EDT)


where is the discussion of egyptians and west africans in ancient america!

Grant William $ullivan <gws76@hotmail.com>
Age: 23, santa barbara, ca USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:53:26 (EDT)


Wow! You made a good point when you said "the mummies may were people who was passing through." I know what you mean about the right to travel freely. I have done a little traveling in my time as well. As a child I traveled to DISNEYLAND, where I got myself a hat with big Black Micky mouse ears. Last year I traveled to Texas .where I bought myself a pair of cowboy boots. So I can relate to your hypothesis that the mummies may have been random Blacks "passing through" Egypt and decided to have themselves mummified! While were on this level; of thinking here are some other possible explanations. That are every bit as logical as yours The mummies could have been the murder vicious of white supremacist Who fearing punishment raped the bodies up and hid them in the Pyramids! Or a now extinct spices of giant man eating spiders could have been left in the Burial chambers.Its sole purpose would have been to capture cocoon "or mummified" thieves breaking into the chambers, eating them at a later time. This would also explain why all the tested mummies were black. Of course there is the Alien theory to consider as well. All of these suggestions make about as much since as a tourist being mummified In general Paul yours is the essence of the Black mans current social and echo economic status. Conner Cain

Conner cain
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 16:25:07 (EDT)


if the test is or isn't, the mummies may were people who was passing through. many people visit africa even in that time. Black from other parts of africa came there to. "Egypt was a place like the US and all came went, so do think that testes can find all answers.

paul
USA - Thursday, September 02, 1999 at 15:02:07 (EDT)


If the test results from the Egyptian mummies were correct, Then the builders of the Giza pyramids were Black? Khufu, Ramses , Tutankhaten and all the others must have also been colored. This truly would have made for a time when Black men ruled the world! A time when the black race was dominate. Conceding the current state of the Black race I can see why this discovery would be of extreme importance. Not only to this previous dominate race but to the current one as well. We should ask ourselves some important questions. How could a race so obviously intellectually superior to all others degenerate to its current status? How could the builders of the most advanced society on the planet plummet to its current depth in such a short time? We should ask ourselves theses questions and learn from the answers we find. Otherwise we may find ourselves degenerating! Just as the great Black builders of the Pyramids did. I for one would not want to see my lineage regressing. I couldn't imagine them living in straw huts. Hunting wild game with spears while the rest of the world was using steel and gunpowder. It troubles me the thought of them dancing around a fire and offering sacrifices to pagan gods. Perhaps even sinking to the lowest point of all, eating the flesh of captured humans. What would be the chances of recovery after such a great fall. Slim! Even if we were offered government protection and education. Then given generous handouts for the welfare of our people, chances are we would never recover. We would insist on withering in our poverty, wilting in the shadow of drugs and crime. Even make common place the commandment of violence against our own kind. Chances are good as a race we might well become enslaved by the more advanced societies. Even if we were given 50 or more years of complete equality perhaps even affirmative action we would still fail to unite as a people. We would search unfinding for Roots. Failing we might even try and convince ourselves that at onetime we were the reckoning force to be dealt with. We were the in slavers. We might even try and prove our ancestors were the builders of the Great pyramids or the great wall of China for that matter.

Conner Cain
USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 18:40:20 (EDT)


Gentlemen, let's stay with the TRUTH and it will set us free. We are all prisoners - to a certain extent - of the language we use; but if we are to start the new day (which must surely come) then it behooves us to set a certain tenet and not waver from it. There is only ONE RACE. The Black race from which any biogeneticist will tell you (if (s)he is being honst) we are all derived. Please do not talk about "the black race" or "the white race" or any other race but the human race. If we do not establish this standard, and begin calling the different ethnicities exactly what they are - ethnicities, all connected to Mother Africa by a very short (timewise) umbilical chord. It runs deep, but so does the psychosis of any human being that cannot accept this irrefutable fact. Other words to think about (translation in brackets): Minorities (the Majority of people on the Planet) Western (White) Middle East (North East Africa) Please beware the linguistic pitfalls! HOTEP

paul james <imhotep4@yahoo.com>
Age: 37, atlanta, ga USA - Wednesday, September 01, 1999 at 16:14:58 (EDT)


The previous few posts are definitely SIGNS OF IGNORANCE, not worthy of discussion or argument. Peace All have a new day. :)

Kwabena Adofo Danquah, A.C.E. Foundation Historical and Cultural Research Consultant <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, Mn USA - Monday, August 30, 1999 at 14:24:30 (EDT)


This black versus white thing is complete bullshit. Egypt was not black. Egypt was not white. Egypt was and always has been controlled by the Mediteranean race. What is the Mediteranean race? It is the race that inhabits South Europe, North Africa, and most of the Middle East. It is a great race. With its expansion, civilization has expanded. It has consisted of the Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Phoenicians, Jews, Arabs, etc. Although some of these groups spoke an Indo-European language, this was due to brief conquest of white people living further north into these areas. Did they leave their genetic make up in this territory? Yes. That is why there are some Mediterraneans with green eyes and small noses. Just as black Africans have left some of their genetic makeup in people in North Africa. But one thing is true, this interbreeding has been kept to a minimum. The similarity between these people are profound. We know who is who. And although the white people try to push us as one of theirs, we can easily tell the difference. Just as you can tell for the Egyptians. It is why Moses can pass as an Egyptian. We all look very similar. Look at any statues of the Egyptian and you will find that they don't look Nordic nor black, but are clearly of the Mediteranean race. Why do they sometime look really dark? Well because unlike Nordics, Mediteranean are usually tanned and can get really tanned when they sit in the sun all day. Herodotus himself said that there is a clear relationship between the Greeks and Middle Easterners. Furthermore, Romans claimed that they had come from Troy, a city in Asia minor not North Europe. The oldest record of the Egyptians have them speaking an Afro-Asiatic language, the same linguistic group as all the Semitic languages in the Middle East. This constant bikerring from blacks and whites claiming Egypt is theirs is a whole bunch of crap and a disservice to our great race. It is clear why the white man wants our race to be part of theirs and why the black man wants our race to be part of theirs. Both races were stuck in the dark ages until they had contact with our civilizations. Which does not speak highly of either of your races considering that the Indians, Asians, and Native Americans were able to get further along without any help. Throughout known history, even today, our type has ruled the world. Europe which thinks so highly of itself, was in the dark ages until the Arabs invaded Spain, and with that Jews spread north into the Nordic race regions. If you look at any great scientist, you will realize two things, he is probably not black nor is he blond with blue eyes. Instead the chances are that he is derived from a Mediterranean race. It is why the Nazis hated the Jews. It is why white Americans still hate Jews. It is why once Europe accepted Jews and other Middle Easterners, it became enligtened. It is why once America accepted the Jews, it became the greatest nation on Earth. It is why this and many other countries are run by Jews. We don't show ourselves, but we are there in the back pulling all the strings, and you know it. Why else will Israel be getting money for nothing and Iraq getting its butt whooped. We don't like each other, but we know that we are definately related. Furthermore, we finally found the greatest way to live, have other races labor away for us and fight wars for us while we enjoy life. The Moors first stumbled onto this concept when they had black people join their armys. Us Jews just advanced this concept a little further. Get other races to fight the whole battle for you while keeping your race out of the war. And get other races to do all the repetitively stupid yet necessary steps in work while we do the real thinking. This way we get the best of both worlds, we control everything and we don't even have to work hard for it. And I dare anyone just try to deny what I said about the Egyptians or any other Mediterranean groups. You guys are pathetitc. I mean the statues in Egypt look so black. NOT!!!

..
USA - Sunday, August 29, 1999 at 18:51:35 (EDT)


egyptians WERE NEVER BLACK. you daydream and pretend that they are so u can re-write history and pat yourself on the back for some lousey self esteem. you spread extreme lies, which have hardly any crediblity or basis, and expect the world to beleive your self absorbed, persecution complexed minds. you lieing extremists are an insult to the black race and to all that is good! you are getting nowhere except for installing false pride into your children. if you think that a typical ancient egyptian and a Ugandan look the same, YOU NEED GLASSES. while you spread your lies, the rest of the world looks at how pathetic you are. the modern egyptians look at how stupid your extremist bigoted idiology and laughs. u are fooling yourselves, pretending, exaggerating and lieing. and your lies will never prevail. take your bigotry, lies and false pride to another planet, for your extremist lies will never be accepted by Egyptians, the world or any human with a right mind. say half of your lies in an egyptian's face and see what happens to you!!

.
USA - Sunday, August 29, 1999 at 18:44:43 (EDT)


egyptians WERE NEVER BLACK. you daydream and pretend that they are so u can re-write history and pat yourself on the back for some lousey self esteem. you spread extreme lies, which have hardly any crediblity or basis, and expect the world to beleive your self absorbed, persecution complexed minds. you lieing extremists are an insult to the black race and to all that is good! you are getting nowhere except for installing false pride into your children. if you think that a typical ancient egyptian and a Ugandan look the same, YOU NEED GLASSES. while you spread your lies, the rest of the world looks at how pathetic you are. the modern egyptians look at how stupid your extremist bigoted idiology and laughs. u are fooling yourselves, pretending, exaggerating and lieing. and your lies will never prevail. take your bigotry, lies and false pride to another planet, for your extremist lies will never be accepted by Egyptians, the world or any human with a right mind. say half of your lies in an egyptian's face and see what happens to you!!

.
USA - Sunday, August 29, 1999 at 18:44:40 (EDT)


egyptians WERE NEVER BLACK. you daydream and pretend that they are so u can re-write history and pat yourself on the back for some lousey self esteem. you spread extreme lies, which have hardly any crediblity or basis, and expect the world to beleive your self absorbed, persecution complexed minds. you lieing extremists are an insult to the black race and to all that is good! you are getting nowhere except for installing false pride into your children. if you think that a typical ancient egyptian and a Ugandan look the same, YOU NEED GLASSES. while you spread your lies, the rest of the world looks at how pathetic you are. the modern egyptians look at how stupid your extremist bigoted idiology and laughs. u are fooling yourselves, pretending, exaggerating and lieing. and your lies will never prevail. take your bigotry, lies and false pride to another planet, for your extremist lies will never be accepted by Egyptians, the world or any human with a right mind. say half of your lies in an egyptian's face and see what happens to you!!

.
USA - Sunday, August 29, 1999 at 18:44:36 (EDT)


egyptians WERE NEVER BLACK. you daydream and pretend that they are so u can re-write history and pat yourself on the back for some lousey self esteem. you spread extreme lies, which have hardly any crediblity or basis, and expect the world to beleive your self absorbed, persecution complexed minds. you lieing extremists are an insult to the black race and to all that is good! you are getting nowhere except for installing false pride into your children. if you think that a typical ancient egyptian and a Ugandan look the same, YOU NEED GLASSES. while you spread your lies, the rest of the world looks at how pathetic you are. the modern egyptians look at how stupid your extremist bigoted idiology and laughs. u are fooling yourselves, pretending, exaggerating and lieing. and your lies will never prevail. take your bigotry, lies and false pride to another planet, for your extremist lies will never be accepted by Egyptians, the world or any human with a right mind. say half of your lies in an egyptian's face and see what happens to you!!

.
USA - Sunday, August 29, 1999 at 18:44:28 (EDT)


You guys set the record straight finally. It's good to hear something positive about the black man.Email me more information about this subject please!!!

jonathan tate <tatedaddy@hotmail.com>
Age: 25, USA - Friday, August 27, 1999 at 19:15:11 (EDT)


You guys set the record straight finally. It's good to hear something positive about the black man.

jonathan tate <tatedaddy@hotmail.com>
Age: 25, USA - Friday, August 27, 1999 at 19:13:39 (EDT)


With enough love for myself, I would like to make correction for my comments. The first word of correction is THis Web Cite. Secondly, the word BELIEVING... I made the first comment that the previous commentor made. It would be helpful to have the information corrected before allowing it to be sent out. THis is a great series and another media where we can share and help others. I have a sincere question that may be addressed by someone with reference that would stand up to argument. In regards to the Egyptians today (give or take the last thousand of years or so) Why do they identify with the nordic caucasian culture more than they do with their African ancestry? Has the stigma and myth effected them so servere? Sheila

s. y. milan <smilan@niu.edu>
Age: 00, il USA - Thursday, August 26, 1999 at 14:08:05 (EDT)


THis wen site is very powerful and with all of its power; we should take the time to care enough about each others as we stand above reproach. In reading the last comment from a previous reader (I hope), THe word ISRAEL and BELIVING were spelled incorrect. When we send information; wer should not let over passion overide us to the point were we do not check the wording and spelling of information we share with our brothers and sister or concerned inquiries. If we want this information to serve as food for other souls; let us make sure that we are providing the best for our love ones. Sheila

Sheila Y. Milan <smilan@niu.edu>
Age: 4?, DeKalb, il USA - Thursday, August 26, 1999 at 13:59:51 (EDT)


The bible say the whole world is going to be fooled and that is what going on now, people are believing there on lies. Everyone knows the Egyptians is black. the Egyptians over there now are not the black Egyptians that was there in the old days. LETS see what lies are being told. Oh angels have wings, the Greeks turn Emmenual name into Jesus so everyone would worship there God, And Matthew told you what his name is, The kingdom of God going to be in heaven some were in outer space and God said he is going to come down here on earth and be with man only again as he did before sin came in, The jews are the children of Isreal when the unity nation put them in the land of Isreal doing WW II and that is why we have this big mass over there now and it was said in the old bible days the land will be in torm oil until Isreal go back home, and that is when the true Isreal turn back to God and only then when it will happen, Here is another one, space being build all the great site in the world domm people can't beleive they did it them self and beleiving some domm man who have a DR. in front of his name. So keep beleiving lies when it all said and done remember you reject the truth and beleive the lies. Black people start teaching your other black brothers and sisters most of them are still asleep, some of them don't want to know the truth, but tell them any way so there will be no saying ,I did know. and Rick you know a lot thanks for putting what you know up on the board.

pal
MS USA - Monday, August 23, 1999 at 16:59:57 (EDT)


I have Diop's book, and Van Sertima's book "Egypt Child of Africa." I believe what each said about the history of Africa and it has been proven. As you mentioned, Sertima mentioned how Europeans referred to the Egyptians as being white because of their bone structure. I believe the term was Hammite. Egypt has been occupied by Europeans who conquered it. Cleopatra was one of them. She was white and it was said that she was hard to look at. I am not trying to start an argument with those who believe that she was African, but her being white is the truth. She even had her children by white European men, Ceaser and his predecessor. We need to all educate ourselves about the history of our people sothat we won't make the mistake of thinking that all rulers of ancient Africa was African.

Tangee Harding <tangee@usa.net>
Age: 30, Seattle, WA USA - Monday, August 23, 1999 at 14:41:36 (EDT)


Thank you for this site and the comments at the beginning of the Chat room. I am an independent filmmaker currently (1 1/2 years) working on a short entitled JESUS WAS A DREAD. I am starting with Jesus mainly to grab the attention of those who as Dr. Clarke said "not finding respect at home or within themselves because they are still holding onto symbology and images of god in the home, churches and their minds,do not reflect themselves." My next step is to gather and research additional data from Van Sertima. This project will ultimately expand upon completion of the short, (after a period of fundraising), to include "images of the sacred connecteness" between Native (indigenous) people of color throughout the world! in documentary/feature length. I deeply appreciated your efforts and gifts to black people and the entire human kind. Being connected to this site feeds me the "whole / nutrient based" nourishment that I need to keep my energy, determination and spirit healthy and strong. The ancestors are smiling upon you . . . as am I. Guidance & Protection, always, Lori Ani`Clarke

Lori Ani` Clarke <lori@drugfreenj.org>
Age: 38, Hoboken, NJ USA - Friday, August 20, 1999 at 11:43:12 (EDT)


this site is so full of lies. the ancient egyptians were not black. it was the black africans that intermingled with some egyptians but that doesn't make everyone black. the ancient egyptians don't have big lips, black skin, afros, flat noses like nubians. this site is an attempt to lie and invent in the same of self esteem for blacks.

.
USA - Wednesday, August 18, 1999 at 16:02:04 (EDT)


when you really truly find out Buford Pusser you will find that the lie was told to you. And you will be the one who will be lost. I should say you already losted. If you do your on reseach and stop letting other people like your self tell you what they want u to know then only you will come into the truth and pray that your eyes be open. Your on people keep STs and lies like UFO and many other thing frm you because they don't want u to know the truth. And I have to say it isn't there faul because you really choose to be lied to.

unk
unk, USA - Wednesday, August 18, 1999 at 09:45:07 (EDT)


There is no lies in this site, but postings of people like you Buford Pusser. Maybe not every race can be industrious and creative, but the Negroes, the dark skinned people, the plack people, the Africans, have always shown their intrinsic genious, always proved heir creativity, their industriousness, their strength, their ability to master complex systems, and much more human qualities, in any kind of situation. It's people like you Buford Pusser who, by being aware of their general weakness, do not miss any opportunity to destabilize the strongest people. We are recovering from the consequences of you pityful condition as a human being. There are capable individuals in the white race as in any race, but the white race has no privilege in human qualities. The world need all kind of people but not people like you Buford Pusser. You are a prototype of humans god created by error, and that will desapear soon from the earth. We challenge you to recover from the lowest damage we can cause to people like you, you can't. In fact, we will not need to cause you any damage. We Negroe, Black, Africans, are proud to be recorded as a race of great achievements, in all domains of human activities. We are the founders of science, medecine, phylosopy, technologies, ..., we recorded better achievements the modern science. In fact, most of the realization in modern science are reactualizations of results that ware knows by Negroes long long before.

John
Age: 33, USA - Tuesday, August 17, 1999 at 20:50:26 (EDT)


I just want to say that as a white man, I think it is generally harmful to lie to your black children about all this stuff. There is nothing wrong with telling them the truth. Not every race can be industrious and creative, The world needs all people, even those not as capable as the white race. Negroes should be proud of the hard work they did to assist the white race in building the greatest country the world has ever seen. Not all whites are as open minded as me and consider the negro a drain on the economy, while this may be true today, certainly the negro was of at least marginal benefit to the southern states a hundred or more years ago. The world needs ditch diggers too, we cant all be rocket scientists. Peace.

Buford Pusser <ILUVBUFORD@AOL.COM>
Age: 28, FULLERTON, CA USA - Tuesday, August 17, 1999 at 02:00:46 (EDT)


Hello and how are you all doing? I am just going to say this, Africe America people are not Egyptian, Egyptian were very dark skined people. The is why the Egyptian coldn't tell why mose was hebrew because they both was dark skinned. GOD has said the whole world will be fooled because of lies. even will are fooled by the name jesus GOD NAME is son Emmenuel and not Jesus and that it in /Matthew/ Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us./ AFRICE AMERICANS WE have to get back to GOD ways and he said in his own words all we have to do is turn and that came from him. there are many thing I want to tell you, but cann't do it all in one day it take time to know the real truth, we are those lost poeple not know one else, know one can ware the shose, not no one. and if they try them on it would fit. I will be back to gave you more and show you were it is. all Africe slavey stock poeple are hebrew by boold and Isreal by name and that is the plane truth one of these day very soon they are going to try to tell you that, and they will say will would have told you, but let lie they will never tell you but we know and well will show you and tell you were to find the truth. so shalom for now brothers and sisters.

paul
ms USA - Monday, August 16, 1999 at 17:47:35 (EDT)


First I would like to say whoever says the ancient Egyptians were anything but black obviously do little to no research and are guided by the media system and intelligentsia.Through propaganda guided by either ignorance or racism powerful white controlled businesses and institutions promote a calculated or a mistakingly false image of ancient Egyptians.A prime example of this which some readers of this may be able to relate is the casino in LasVegas called the "Luxor".This 300,000,000 plus dollar hotel and casino which by the way was constructed without any financial assistance has a replica of the most famous statue in the world.This statue of course is the majestic work of art known as the "Sphinx".This statue is strategically placed in front of the hotel which is a replica of the most famous structure in the world "The Great Pyramid".The Sphinx is potrayed with blue eyes and white skin.Is anything wrong with blue eyes and white skin...no,but when used to capture the image of the Sphinx yes.This image is visible to the millions of people who visit LasVagas yearly and is a striking example of premeditated false propaganda.To represent the Sphinx in such a way is an insult and a psychological cultural and historical crime of immense magnitude to people of African descent.The ancient Egyptians never represented themselves in this way, anyonoe no matter who they are would not be able to find an original image of an ancient Egyptian with blue eyes...no such animal.Also anyone with normal vision can see that original statue of the Sphinx is purely African in character.But for those that need more proof we have the recorded testament of Frank Domingo.Frank Domingo is a forensic specialist with New York Police Department.Frank Domingo is one the country's leading experts on face identification,and wrote the standard manual used by police around the country for making composite portraits of crime suspects.Frank Domingo is a man with credentials and if anyone can tell the race of a person or sclupture especially with as much visiual evidence as the face of the Sphinx at thier disposal Frank Domingo ranks at the top of people in the world to reach an accurate answer.In 1993 Frank Domingo was asked to conduct an independent investigation to determine whether the face on the Sphinx really represented Khafre the assumed builder of the Sphinx,which aired on the NBC television documentary entitled Mystery of the Sphinx.Frank Domingo made detailed measurements and utilised all his accumilated skills and the results were unanimous.The Sphinx in his professional analyisis determined by forensic science portrayed a Black African.We also have the ancient historical accouncts of the Greek historian Herodotos.I dont see how anyone can argue this point this man actually saw the ancient Egyptians with his own eyes and described them with having black skins and wooly hair,and this is after several invasions from foriegners.My second and final point is reference to our educational system.I would state it would be safe to say the the majority of people dont know the real name of ancient Egypt nor what the ancient Egyptians called themselves.The reason for this is simple.The real name of ancient Egypt due to racism is one of the most despised words in the world today,that word is BLACK,and this word was also used in the term to describe themselves.KEMET the black country and KEMIU (scholars have adopted the term KEMITES) "the blacks".Both of these word incorporate the word KEM wich simply means black.This is a point which greatly irritates some scholars because now they have to deal with this thorn of color designation which the KEMITES did themselves through the use of pictorial symbols known today as hieroglyphs but was called Medu Netecher by the KEMITES.The KEMITES were very detailed in their written language of symbols and leave no room for confusion,anyone who is dilligent enough can check this for themseleves,and I say dilligent because this information is ignored and supressed by the dominant white scholars who are aware of these facts and more able to get funding to promote information to influence the public.But the truth is all powerful and no amount of money or false propaganda can prevent it from displaying its beautiful face,and that is just whats happening today. Many people of African descent are becomming conscious of thier heritage and legacy which is rightfully thiers,but even more important, more and more KEMITES of today,black people are not concerned with nor do they need the validation of a people or peoples who have an obvious agenda,anda historical track record of supressing them. They know who they are,KEMITES are being consciously reborn everyday and are not waiting for an anti-kemetic world to hand over thier stolen legacy,we shall take it.

Anthony Whitaker <ptah@redconnect.net>
Age: 35, New York, NY USA - Thursday, August 12, 1999 at 11:08:47 (EDT)


Hetep Sis. Tamica and everyone else. Your observation of the school system is correct and underlies the need for Afrikans to start developing their communities, if the education is "miseducation", then as Dr. Naim Akbar says we build our own INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS (ebonically Shule) or Traditional Academies. According to one friend of mine from Madagascar, the American school system not only fails Afrikan children, but other children as well. The students are not educated to utilize their minds to any degree of independent thought or to delve deeper into the inner workings of subject material. Ex. I'm from Louisiana and there's a train company, K.C.S., which hauls goods through along La's railroads. What does K.C.S. means Kansas City Southern. What is Kansas? Kansas is a state. Where is Kansas located? In the Plains area of the U.S., in between Nebraska and Oklahoma. What does Kansas mean? Kansas is a corruption of the Dheigha Sioux tribe, the Kansa or Kaw, and it means "South-wind People". It's not too important of an issue, but I hope you are understanding my stance. We are taught by rote-learning and because of this predominance of teacher-tells-student and student-memorizes-for-test method, we continue to remain in the "BOX", per se, and never challenge the "statue quo", by any means. It's this education that allows us Afrikans in America to make effective analyses of our present situation but fail to develop radical community developing programs. We are as my friend say, ROMANTIC REVOLUNTARIES, discussing theoretical things, but not actively placing into application our ancestral-inspired thoughts. We must begin to provide education, social services, housing, real estate and investment club opportunities, credit unions, and a myriad of other empowering infrastructures to effectively progress as a people. (Understand the power and relevance Marcus Garvey has for today's comsumption). We can do it, if we only step from outside the "BOX -(usual Pro-Black Thought), stop being cynical and "Romantic Revoluntaires". Y'all DEVELOP PROGRAMS AND PROJECTS, everyone has a part to play "Ujima" and like Nike, "JUST DO IT".

Kwabena Adofo Danquah, A.C.E Foundation Cultural And Historical Research COnsultant <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, August 10, 1999 at 15:53:56 (EDT)


I believe that the debate on Black Africa will continue for years to come because of the biased books written on the continent and its people. Unfortunately, students are not being educated on the rich cultural and financial wealth of Africa and are only learning a fraction of the truth.

Tamica Francis <wenoran@0l.com>
Age: 22, Sunrise, FL USA - Tuesday, August 10, 1999 at 12:23:17 (EDT)


People and frends of the African diaspora, The Sudanese government is using chemical or biological arms against innocent people in south Sudan, and the SPLA rebels. El Bechir is doing far better than Milosevic, or the apartheid government for its chemical and biological warfare programs, including poisons or drugs to make black people in southern Africa infertile. The SPLA rebels are fighting against an islamic and arabization program that created three classes of citizens in Sudan : First class: Sudanic arabs Second class: Negroes accepting islam and the arab culture. They are superior to third class citizen, cultures but inferior to Sudanic arabs. Third class : Negroes that do not accept islam nor the arab culture. Most of these people leave in the south, they are christians or "animist". The dream of the Sudanese GVT is to suppress the third class citizen by whatever means. El Bechir is responsible of both a cultural and a physical genocide. The Sudanese problem is the last phase of a long planned extermination of African people and cultures in the Nile valley, including the descendants of Ancient Nubia in the north, that started in the 6th century in Egypt. If nothing is done, it will succeed entirely in a few years. People in south Sudan will be exterminated because they will never accept islam or the arab culture. Then the next step will be the islamization and arabization of the neighbor countries (Ethiopia, Uganda, Congo, Eritrea, Kenya, ...). Sudan is dying of the same concept that India is fighting against in the Kashmir. Please, read this article about the chemical attacks : http://www.africanews.com/daily/inews04.html or http://www.africanews.org/east/sudan/stories/19990804_feat1.html

John
Age: 33, USA - Sunday, August 08, 1999 at 20:35:11 (EDT)


I TRULY AGREE WITH THE PROFOUND TRUTH THAT THIS SITE HAS PROVIDED US WITH, HOWEVER, THE STUDY OF THE PAST TELLS US THAT ALLAH IS INTERESTED IN THE DEVELOPEMENT OF THE WHOLE HUMANFAMILY, BUT THE BLACK MAN IN PARTICULAR. THIS IS A VALUABLE REFERENCE SITE FOR AN INDIVISUAL WHO IS FOCUSED ON THE PAST. I BELIEVE OUR EFFORTS SHOULD ALSO BE FOCUSED ON THE ESCAPE OF GOD'S DEVINE CHASTISEMENT OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!! PEACE

RON
USA - Sunday, August 08, 1999 at 14:46:03 (EDT)


Alafia, Rev. Paul and everyone. Yes, I would never deny the indigenous people suffered greatly at the hands of imperialistic "men". This is a fact I have wrote about a great many times in school essays. I had one editorial to a local Native newspaper detailing our shared oneness and heritage. I just used those examples in the previous post to bring attention to the low status African Americans occupy among the world's people. I intended that these examples would support my position of discerning the ethnicity of the Kamau. I believe this is relevant, again, for empowering the African consciousness of African descendants. You alluded to speaking and forming some dialogue, if not companionship, with nearly African immigrants and the horrible prejudices these individuals face from African-(Americans?). Your experience helps to explain my position, also. African-Americans usually perceive native Africans as something else; "They are not "BLACK" like us, but Africans." So Black (Americans) do not identify with Africa or her people. No, we, African (Americans) perceive ourselves to be far evolved from the voodoo practicing, primitive and naked Africans. We are honorary "white" Black folks BORN in America, not Ah-free-Ka. Because of the Western indocrination we have receive, Africa occupies a place of shame and feeling of our inherent inferiority so any notion connecting us to Africa must be repressed. We as Black (americans) suffer from what Dr. Naim Akbar call "alien-self" syndrome. This pathology is hard to understand from someone outside of the African (american) environment since this undying concept seems to be epidemically peculiar to the Black (American) race. When one factors in this dynamic, we see here is where the similar experiences of Native Aboriginals and Africans separate. You speak of languages disappearing, but our language is completely forgotten and replaced. Not because, in most instances, our numbers dwindled and our mother tongue became extinct, no because almost every vestige of our cultural identity was stripped from us. You know your ancestral nation and it's name, many of my people cannot tell you what part of Africa their predominate ancestors originated, let alone give you their national name, especially its original name. Why? I ask, "Why?" Because what befell the Africans on this continent was one of the worst actions of history. Our history has been distorted to the point we know not even Ghana, Mali, Songhai, or Zimbabwe as being Black African in origin. No, our "educators" tell us some "Hamites" founded these great empires. Where's the "Hamitic Hypothesis" for the Natchez, Maya, Six Nations, Abenaki, Muskogee Confederacy, Lakota Nation? We are correct in supplying "agendas" to history to counteract the imperialistic and supremacist agendas that have distorted history. I believe not in falsehood, I believe in reciprocity. Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Tuesday, August 03, 1999 at 17:25:22 (EDT)


Nefer sedjemek, Kwabena Adofo Danquah (May you hear only good things) There is no denying that the AnaYunWiya were slave owners(I prefer our People's own Name for ourselves because it *means* something* in our language). There was much that my ancestors did as one of the so-called civilized tribes in order to 'get along' with the encroaching conquerers of the First Nations. We dressed like them, we built our houses like them, we converted our religion to theirs. What we got in return for all this and by helping the leaders of the occupational government, was the Trail of Tears. The system clearly broke down in this case - read the history - Andrew Jackson circumvented the other branches of government in order to carry out the plan and 8 out of every ten people forced on that journey died as a direct result of it. I had not heard of the belief that blacks were regarded as being inferior to Indians. If anything, in the Eastern tribal areas we heard more about how leaders like Osceola offered sanctuary and a place in the tribe to runnaway slaves, and in fact, the only way the Occupational US Govt captured him was by capturing his beloved wife, a black slave, and he turned himself in rather than any harm befall her. And as for Indians never having been made slaves...I think there are Nations that would debate that - especially in Mexico, central and South America - since we in the First Nations still regard that to be a part of this continent. We can talk a great deal about what the conquering cultures did to us in our pasts and continue to do to self-esteem of us and our young people. Its pretty hard to hide if you are a person of colour in this country. Its pretty obvious - its all around us. I know what its like to be called "prairie nigger" and "dirty Indian" on the school bus. Predjudice and racism is a horrible thing and it still exists. Blacks acheived the right to vote in this country before my people did, before 1921 Indian people were little more than prolific vermin - we werent even people. And when you mention the *FACT* that genocide by the forced sterilization of Indian women via the Indian Health Organization as late as 1976, people look at you incredulously as if it can't happen here in America. Im sorry that you are not well recieved at tribal gatherings. Its a problem that comes borne of the Newage movement and the increasing pressure for people to enroll with tribes. Its genocide too, just in a different form. In that case its genocide by the numbers. And again much of it is systemic of the ever increasing tide of hucksters and plastic shamen who "sell"Indian religion and culture wholesale and these people either arent Indian at all or dont have a clue what its about because the are outside the culture. My point in all of this is that each community has problems with their children being taught in the "liar's scrawl" of the dominant culture. About languages, the indigenous languages are dying out before our very eyes. Maybe its worse watching a language be destroyed because the people who do speak it are for the most part elderly, than having the option of perhaps someday, somehow being able to document African languages that are still in use, still in existence and saving them. I pray that we dont lose any more of the languages on either side, but the fact remains - we are because the educational resources are not there to help our young people and adults have the option to choose to learn the language of their heritage - and that could be both Comanche or any African language you chose in addition to English. All are a part of you, and all parts of your heritage are your Akhu (Ancestors) and to learn them and to speak the languages is to keep our respective heritages and cultures alive and it honours your Akhu. Anyone who feeds you or your children the line about blacks not having a culture is lying to you. I had the pleasure and privelege of working with four individuals here in the US who were from Africa, one from Nubia, one from Congo, one from Zambabwe, and one from Somalia. For the majority of the five years that I had the honor of working with these people, we spent the majority of our time talking about our cultures, where we were from, what our people believed about themselves, about God, about each of our places in the scheme of things, our concerns for ourselves and the world on the whole. We would share different 'greetings' and phrases from our languages and it was very good exchange. I wouldnt have traded the experience for anything. One thing I also witnessed when working with these three people was the incredible amount of hostility and predjudice that African-American managers in our company displayed toward them for wearing their traditional clothing, or any number of undiscernable reasons. I was puzzled by that. I still am. My question to those who read this board, and this is not a question designed to cause upset or discord, but why would anyone of black African decent treat a person who had recently emmigrated from Africa to this country with such open hostility? I truly do not understand and I am very much trying to. I suppose it would be similar to the hostility Ive seen between on reservation Peoples of the First Nations to the one's that have moved off-reservation (and vice versa).I just still dont understand why. Please forgive me if my questions and commentary seem impertinent, they are respectfully submitted. These things are not as obvious to me as someone who is from another culture - but are things I would sincerely like to know. Een heset net Netjer! (Be in favor with God!) Imakhu Christina Paul, Hm-t Netjert Sekhmet/HetHert, Mery Amun.

Imakhu Christina Paul <sekhmet@netins.net>
Anamosa, IA USA - Monday, August 02, 1999 at 17:32:40 (EDT)


Alafia all. Rev. Paul, I have heard your words and understand them completely. However, race does become a factor in dealing with the Kamau. Whenever you are a Afrikan exiled in America, your first understanding of yourself is you are something less. You are descended from backward bootie scratching "jungle monkeys". Because of this myth so ingrained in your consciousness at a young age, many young Africans hate themselves. African people were left without the knowldge of their culture intact. We eat not our original food, we have not our original names, we speak not our original languages, we have nothing to connect us to a vibrant and vital people. Growing up with this lack of identity, many of us attempt to associate ourselves and heritage to various other groups, in the expense of our most dominant. We began to say "Yeah I'm black but you know I got Indian or white blood, too." What's pathologically wrong about this statement is it's not ususally an affirmation of other ancestors, but an denialization of African heritage and over-emphasisizing of other than Black African heritage, in an poor attempt to remove general vestiges of Africanity from oneself. So, what am I saying, I'm saying by making this statement, we fulfill a psychological need of increasing our worth. Woe to the Black race. I have been called nigger by not just European descendants, but also by the equally oppressed aboriginals. My paternal grandfather was actually a Comanche from outside of Lawton, Ok. But whenever I go to attend any powwow to immerse myself in my other heirtage, I'm looked upon as not welcomed or received. So not only have Black folks been fooled by the myth of Africans, also many aboriginals who believe they are superior to "niggers" because they are lighter or have never been slaves. My grandfather's people actually hated "niggers" and would not scalped them because they were said to be "bad spirits" and were not as good as the white man. It's no secret Black people have been the footstool of many people and many view us as less. Likewise, we do also. Your own ancestors the Cherokees owned African slaves, some more than the average southern gentlemen, and one fellow, Stand Watie was the last Confederate general to surrender during the Civil War. All of this is irrelevant, however. By bringing race in the studies of the Kamau (Egyptians), we are empowering the minds of countless young Black kids, who would have thought they were just "niggers"; a new creation of the white man. (since we have no history or real culture). Sorry, if my writing seems erratic, I'm just pressed for time right now and wanted to briefly comment. Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah, Cultural and Historical Research Consultant <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Monday, August 02, 1999 at 15:59:02 (EDT)


Iiwi Em hotep! With all respect to you and to those here on this board, Dr. Clegg, I have never said the word 'heretical'. Please do not prejudge me as being against you, when I wish to have a clearer dialogue about things. When I speak of "agenda", I speak of those who would use the 'race' of the Kemetic people in a way that would never have occured to these ancient peoples in the first place. Im talking about the more vocal afrocentrists or eurocentrists for that matter who use the colour of skin as an indicator at how creative/spiritual/enlightened (insert criteria here) they are than others who are lighter or darker skinned. I hear that this isnt a real issue in the black/Latino/Indian communities at all, but really because of the messages that people are bombarded with from the Western culture via the media, learning institutions etc. - it truly has *become* an issue. I would respectfully ask that you please do not assume that I dont understand, indeed I do. Sometimes I wish I hadnt come by my understanding so blatantly with regard to race and politics and the various things surrounding these issues. I grew up in the middle of the civil rights movement, I saw first hand the things that happened with Wounded Knee II, the murder of Ana Mae Aquash, the CONINTELPRO mess, Leonard Peltier and AIM. I also have intimately witnessed the horrible things that "race" issues based on criteria of 'blood quantum' can do to a sovereign Nation of people. I would hope that perhaps the black community and the communities of other peoples of colour can learn from the things that are now wrenching the Nations of the American Indians apart. Most people in the US are unaware or dont care that Indians are the ONLY RACE that have to register to "prove" what race they are. Ive had the most vehement and hate filled letters from other people of color, telling me how they and only they and their own personal culture have been disenfranchised by what "they" (meaning the dominant white culture) did to them. With this new found knowlege of the black origins of *ALL* civilization, yes it is right to claim the birthright of Africa and the great civilizations of Africa...however, we need to stop pointing fingers, Dr. Clegg. We need to at least *try* to think like the Ancient Kemetic people themselves did and not judge others based on skin colour, and this is what I speak of when I say the word "agenda". I dont expect to be treated differently as an American Indian, just as I would not treat anyone else differently based on their skin colour or culture. But there again too, skin colour does not equal culture. Ma'at demands that we treat everyone with respect, because we all are, as the ancient pyramid texts state, the cattle of God. Senebty Imakhu Christina Paul, Hm-t Sekhmet/Hert, MeryAmun

Rev. Christina Paul <revcpaul@kemet.org>
Age: 37, Anamosa, IA USA - Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 19:52:08 (EDT)


Iiwi Em hotep! With all respect to you and to those here on this board, Dr. Clegg, I have never said the word 'heretical'. Please do not prejudge me as being against you, when I wish to have a clearer dialogue about things. When I speak of "agenda", I speak of those who would use the 'race' of the Kemetic people in a way that would never have occured to these ancient peoples in the first place. Im talking about the more vocal afrocentrists or eurocentrists for that matter who use the colour of skin as an indicator at how creative/spiritual/enlightened (insert criteria here) they are than others who are lighter or darker skinned. I hear that this isnt a real issue in the black/Latino/Indian communities at all, but really because of the messages that people are bombarded with from the Western culture via the media, learning institutions etc. - it truly has *become* an issue. I would respectfully ask that you please do not assume that I dont understand, indeed I do. Sometimes I wish I hadnt come by my understanding so blatantly with regard to race and politics and the various things surrounding these issues. I grew up in the middle of the civil rights movement, I saw first hand the things that happened with Wounded Knee II, the murder of Ana Mae Aquash, the CONINTELPRO mess, Leonard Peltier and AIM. I also have intimately witnessed the horrible things that "race" issues based on criteria of 'blood quantum' can do to a sovereign Nation of people. I would hope that perhaps the black community and the communities of other peoples of colour can learn from the things that are now wrenching the Nations of the American Indians apart. Most people in the US are unaware or dont care that Indians are the ONLY RACE that have to register to "prove" what race they are. Ive had the most vehement and hate filled letters from other people of color, telling me how they and only they and their own personal culture have been disenfranchised by what "they" (meaning the dominant white culture) did to them. With this new found knowlege of the black origins of *ALL* civilization, yes it is right to claim the birthright of Africa and the great civilizations of Africa...however, we need to stop pointing fingers, Dr. Clegg. We need to at least *try* to think like the Ancient Kemetic people themselves did and not judge others based on skin colour, and this is what I speak of when I say the word "agenda". I dont expect to be treated differently as an American Indian, just as I would not treat anyone else differently based on their skin colour or culture. But there again too, skin colour does not equal culture. Ma'at demands that we treat everyone with respect, because we all are, as the ancient pyramid texts state, the cattle of God. Senebty Imakhu Christina Paul, Hm-t Sekhmet/Hert, MeryAmun

Rev. Christina Paul <revcpaul@kemet.org>
Age: 37, Anamosa, IA USA - Sunday, August 01, 1999 at 19:36:56 (EDT)


JOHN, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, AND AGREE WITH THEM IN PRINCIPLE, THOUGH I HAVE NOT READ OF ANY "GROUP" THAT DID NOT WISH TO ASSOCIATE ITSELF WITH THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS, FOR ANY REASON. COULD YOU DIRECT ME TO THE PROPER SOURCES? ALSO, IT WAS RECOGNIZED BY THE ANCIENT EUROPEANS THAT NUBIA PRECEDED EGYPT, AND EVEN IN THE 1800'S CHERUBINI, I BELIEVE (AS QUOTED FROM "THE AFRICAN ORIGIN OF CIVILIZATION" BY CHEIKH ANTA DIOP), IS SAID TO HAVE STATED THAT NOWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD WAS THERE AS MUCH EVIDENCE FOR THE "ORIGIN OF CIVILIZATION" AND ITS FIRST GREAT FLOWERING(PARAPHRASE) THAN IN NUBIA. WHERE IS THAT EVIDENCE NOW? IN WHICH BOOKS? IN WHAT MUSEUMS? WHERE ARE THE PICTURES AND ARTIFACTS TO PROVE HIS POINT. I WOULD SAY THAT THEY HAVE EITHER BEEN DESTROYED OR ARE BEING HIDDEN. MORE IMPORTANTLY THAN ALL THE DIFFERENCES, IS THE CULTURAL UNITY OF ALL OF BLACK AFRICA. AND ALL OF AFRICA WAS BLACK, IN THE BEGINNING. E. A. WALLIS BUDGE IN "OSIRIS AND THE EGYPTIAN RESURRCTION" BOOK 2(I HAVE NOT READ BOOK 1) MAKES THOUSANDS OF REFERENCES TO THE CULTURAL UNITY OF EGYPT AND BLACK AFRICA. THIS IS CERTAINLY THE REASON HE IS HELD IN LOW ESTEEM BY MANY, I SHALL NOT SAY ALL, MODERN DAY EGYPTOLOGIST. THE BAMBUTI, OR PYGMIES AS THEY ARE CALLED, WERE HELD IN GREAT REVERENCE BY THE EGYPTIANS. THE FACT THAT THE EGYPTIANS REFERRED TO THE "LAND OF THE GOD'S" AS BEING IN THE HEART OF BLACK AFRICA SAYS IT ALL. I AM REMINDED OF GROUCHO MARX'S COMMENT " I WOULDN'T WANT TO JOIN ANY ORGANISATION THAT WOULD HAVE ME AS A MEMBER", BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE UNIMPORTANT THAT GENETICALLY SIMILAR PEOPLE FOLLOW DIFFERENT PATHS. AND WE MUST ALSO REMEMBER THAT SINCE THE BLACK RACE IS THE OLDEST, IT HAS THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF GENETIC VARIATION(PLEASE DONOT INTERPRET THIS STATEMENT TO MEAN "BETTER THAN OTHER RACES"). BY GENETIC VARIATION I MEAN, THE TALLEST, THE SHORTEST, THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF SKIN TONE VARIANCE, EVEN IN UNMIXED AFRICANS, FROM JET BLACK TO LIGHT BROWN, AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN, STRAIGHT NOSES , FLAT NOSES, STRAIGHT HAIR(WITH THE BLACKEST SKIN, ACCORDING TO DIOP), AFRO'S, AND THE LIST GOES ON. BUT BENEATH IT ALL, IS A UNITY, AMEN.

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Saturday, July 31, 1999 at 15:44:16 (EDT)


Muenda, I meant that, you can find African cultural groups that do not recognize the pharaonic culture as it is presented as theirs. This is normal for many reasons. First, most of them may have lost their (long) history. Remember that the Kemetic civilisation ended abour 2,500 years ago, and so many things happended in Africa since then. This problem is common to people who have experienced important cultural damages. Many groups of people in Greece, who are really the desendant of ancient greeks do not recognize the hellenistic civilization as theirs. West Africa is very particular in the sens that almost all the people living there came from the nile valley, but many of the ethnic group do not remember this fact. It is important to note that most of these ethnic groups were parts of empires formed there after the end of Kemet (Ghana, Mali, Songhai, ...), and it is known that those empires were largely a compilation of groups and a reconstitution of the life in the Nive valley, after migration. Many (isolated) ethnic groups have proofs of their Kemetian ancestry, and their position in the society at the time. Many high civilization existed in different part of the continent at the time of Kemet, and even long before. Black africans immigrated from Kemet to find other black Africans in different parts of the continent. We have evidences of the existence of many sophisticated civilizations in the continent prior to Kemet, not only in the Nile Valley (Nubia, Ethiopia, ...). Those people do not want to claim an egyptian ancestry, not only because of their sens of sacred values, but sometimes also because they consider they have better achievements than Kemet, which is very plausible. Third, you also have people who were living in the continent for very long times (10,000; 20,000, .... years) in a singular way. The pygmies are a very famous example, and they have a great knowledge !

John
Age: 33, USA - Thursday, July 29, 1999 at 19:59:03 (EDT)


For several months, we carried a message at this site warning visitors not to use inflammatory language or make false accusations. We encouraged the exchange of ideas, but not in a hostile or condescending manner. In light of this, Rev. Paul, please understand that the presentation of truth from our perspective, while strange or even heretical to you, is indeed in keeping with the principles of MA’AT; nor is there any evidence of “an agenda of hate based on the sins of [the] past” at this site. We shall not allow you, or anyone else for that matter, to distort our message or to confuse our readers with false claims of reverse racism. We, as people of African descent, are reclaiming the TRUTH of antiquity. Virtually all of our opinions regarding the history and contributions of Black people, while revolutionary today, were common knowledge in the ancient world. We shall no longer allow modern scientists and scholars to perpetuate the insulting myth that Black people are “small brained, genetically inferior, subhumans with no history.” We have every right to defend ourselves and the contributions of our ancestors, and our detractors have no right to claim that our self-defense is racism. At this site, you and everyone else will learn of the GREAT contributions of people of African descent to world civilizations. Do not come here with hysterical accusations and claims; come with solid evidence for review and analysis. In this vein, David, there is nothing “pathetic” about our claim that the original Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. (Please see a full confirmation of this in the February, 1997 issue of MA’AT) If they and the Jews, as you claim, were both part of the “Mediterranean race,” why did the Jews (or, more specifically, the Hebrews) record that the Egyptians were the descendants of Mizraim, one of the sons of Ham? And why did these same Hebrews or Jews refer to Ham as synonymous with Cham or Chem. which means black or burnt in their language? None of the early Black people were referred to, by eyewitnesses, as Mediterranean because, at the time, there were no such people as “Mediterraneans”. This “racial” category has been conjured up by modern Egyptologists and others to suppress or erase the contributions of Black Africans. The brown “Mediterraneans” of antiquity were simply the offspring of indigenous Black people in Africa (Nubians, Kemites, etc.), Europe (the Grimaldis) and Western Asians (Natufians) who, for thousands of years, mixed with hordes of Europe invaders following the Ice age. It should be noted that the sedentary Black people in all of these regions laid the foundation of civilization. Moreover, David, modern linguists have conclusively traced the origin of the Egyptian language, not to an Afro-Asiatic tongue as you claim, but to a Black Ethiopian language. Furthermore, as for you, “been around the world”, books such as “Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa,” are promoted by the Africa-debasing establishment to perpetuate the myth of Black genetic inferiority. There are thousands of African Americans, including this writer, who have visited Africa (many have stayed) and had an indescribably positive experience. But, most assuredly, our stories will not be told by the mainstream media. Finally, why do so many of you, who wish to dispute our opinions, resort to name-calling and insults? Are you insecure in your own opinions? We realize that our viewpoints have probably uprooted your worldview and knocked out your circuits, but, as you will learn, if you dare to venture beyond Western propaganda, THE TRUTH is much BLACKER than you ever imagined and, for the faint of heart, UNSETTLING INDEED. Legrand H. Clegg II Moderator

Legrand H. Clegg II
USA - Thursday, July 29, 1999 at 17:12:26 (EDT)


THe 11th Annual Cheik Anta Diop conference will be in Philadelphia on October 14-16,1999 at the Holiday Inn at Independence Hall, 400 Arch St. Philadelphia,PA 19106. The theme is reconstructing Ancient Egyptian History and Culture: Intergrating new evidence. For more info. go to www.asante.net or call 215-204-4322

Mackens Audena <mpast7+@pitt.edu>
Age: 20, Pittsburgh, PA USA - Thursday, July 29, 1999 at 00:17:46 (EDT)


john, in response to your comment about "who came from egypt and who did not". diop clearly points out, and "all" archeological data supports that human life began in eastern africa, spread up the nile, and dispersed across the continent, this is why even western africans are culturally connected to egypt. the egyptians were nubians, and there is not an honest scholar that has ever lived that can say otherwise. also, if you read the accounts of europeans you will find that they constantly referred to the migration of black people from egypt across the continent. are the blacks who do not want to associate with egypt referring to ancient egypt or modern egypt? this is a distiction you did not make. it does not matter nonetheless, because the egyptians were black, and they created civilization as we know it, undisputable.

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 21:34:33 (EDT)


Cheikh Anta Diop has been labelled a black racist for recovering the truth about Kemet. No, let's be serious, and not to suspect people to plan to do the same thing as in the past. This is either a paranoid attitude, or a way to perpetuate the problems. The fact is that Diop had no racist agenda, no hatery, but he was a formidable humanist. He just prepared the world to accept the so called Negroes (a white racist invention) as main contributors of the world culture. If people cannot open their mind to this (highly honorable) work, then as human beings we are really in problems. Yes, there are various cultures in Africa and there is no systematic equivalence between "races" and cultures, this is not the question. Not that all Africans came from Kemet. We know of many African civilisations who do not claim (and don't want) an Egyptian Ancestry, others do claim with heavy arguments. Once again, this is not the problem. We are adressing the general problem of African cultures, the Negro problem that we didn't ask for and that we have to solve, and the origins of the Egyptian culture. I recognize that there is a tentative to adress the Ancient Egypt more than the rest of Africa (not to forget the other African civilizations), but this due to the symbolic value of this culture (considered as such). Given the current market values of banana and diabond, would you sell banana if you could sell diamond?, and would you criticize someone for selling diamond instead of banana ? The Nubians may be portrayed somehow differentely from the Egyptians, in the same way as the Yoruba and the Haussa, ... One have to understand what is fundamental, what is peripheral. However, if you can see the original documents describing the tomb of Ousireï the first, or if you could read the palette of Narmer in comparision of nany famous African cultures, etc,... etc. You would understand. I know that there have been a systematic tentative to denigrate colored people in general. But the tentative is persistent with Africans.

John
Age: 33, USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 20:55:35 (EDT)


Iwi em hetep Why is it that it is assumed that we are furthering an agenda of hate because we are stating the trueth. John, who wrote something just before Christina said that "The subject is not a question of black/white, it's a question of the TRUTH." Would it be furthering a racist agenda if it was thought that the buildings of the aztecs were created by the Spanish Invaders, and evidence of the trueth was coming out. The fact is that a lot of people-black and white- still don't know or won't acknowledge the trueth. This is what Pan-Africanist do, aside from wanting more for there people. I don't know too many that say 'we should hate white people because of what their ancestors did and make sure that they all suffer.' No! We just want to come out of the mess that we have found ourselves in without harming anyone. Hetep

Mack
USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 17:51:53 (EDT)


There was once an early Egyptologist who stated "Egypt must never partake of Africa's Spirit". I do not remember the name of that particular Egyptologist, but it does speak very loudly of the attitudes - the very *wrong* attitudes- of early Egyptology. However, there is rarely a denial that Egypt is in Africa, that *black* Africans sat upon the throne. However we need to ask why Egyptians the Kemetic people were portrayed in one fashion via the established artistic canon (which was in accordance to aesthetics and pretty dogmatic throughout Kemet's history) and why the Nubians, Asiatics etc were portrayed another way. We need to get over the idea that a skin colour equals a culture. Can we agree that not all peoples of all the African Nations look the same. Someone from Zambabwe does not look like someone from Somalia. To lump all african people together in one box, therefore ignoring the cultural criteria etc. sells the ancestors of those Nations short. I am American Indian, of the AnaYunWiya Nation, I do not look like my bretheren of the Six Nations Houdenseone Iriquois yet we are all considered "American Indian" do we just simply throw away the accomplishments of the lesser known Nations of Africa in order to "claim" Egypt's civilization. I guess I fail to see how race equals colour. It is, as I have said, been very true that eurocentric scholarship over the last few hundred years has sought to eradicate the truth of the idea that people of colour were not only very human, but the great builders of civilization and masters of accomplishment. However using this criteria to further an agenda of hate based on the sins of the past serves no purpose. It is not Ma'at to be imbalanced about the truth at all. I am encouraged by the furhter findings but let us not beat each other up over the history of humanity. Senebty! (Health be on you!) Imakhu Christina Paul Hm-t Netjert Sekhmet/HetHert (Priest of Sekhmet/HetHert) Niankhsekhmet (She whom Sekhmet gives life)

Rev. Christina Paul <eyeofra@uswestmail.net>
Age: 37, Iowa City, IA USA - Wednesday, July 28, 1999 at 11:18:05 (EDT)


David, The Greeks and Romans were very precise in their description of the Ancient Egyptians: they were dark skinned people with woolly hair. Clearly, this has nothing to see with a location. They said even more : where they came from, their belief systems, they way of life, ... There are tons of arguments, and most of them are confirmed by the modern science. The Ancient Egyptians were black Africans, nothing else. This is formal. The so called Mediteranean race, as the author of the pharaonic civilisation is a theory, an fiction. No one has ever found an evidence to support this theory. One can talk of the mediteranean race as people living in this geographic area today but is you are really educated, you know that they result in the integration of immigrants and invaders by the black ancient egyptians. The subject in not a question of black/white, it's a question of telling the TRUTH. If there is a black/white problem, this is a side-effect of the conspiracy against black African people. The educated Jews, Arabs or Euopeans know where science comes from and who are the great scentists. The Jews in particular know where their knowledge systems come from.

John
Age: 33, USA - Tuesday, July 27, 1999 at 20:33:42 (EDT)


As an addendum to the statement below, let me make something clear. Nobody better say but the Greeks and Romans referred to the Egyptians as Africans. This merely means that they are located in Africa. Just as the Greeks referred to Middle Easterners as Oriental or Asiatic. It is just a reference to where we are located. Just as Americans claiming to be Americans does not make them "Native" Americans but are usually clearly Nordic.

David
Age: 32, USA - Tuesday, July 27, 1999 at 18:39:31 (EDT)


This black versus white thing is complete bullshit. Egypt was not black. Egypt was not white. Egypt was and always has been controlled by the Mediteranean race. What is the Mediteranean race? It is the race that inhabits South Europe, North Africa, and most of the Middle East. It is a great race. With its expansion, civilization has expanded. It has consisted of the Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Phoenicians, Jews, Arabs, etc. Although some of these groups spoke an Indo-European language, this was due to brief conquest of white people living further north into these areas. Did they leave their genetic make up in this territory? Yes. That is why there are some Mediterraneans with green eyes and small noses. Just as black Africans have left some of their genetic makeup in people in North Africa. But one thing is true, this interbreeding has been kept to a minimum. The similarity between these people are profound. We know who is who. And although the white people try to push us as one of theirs, we can easily tell the difference. Just as you can tell for the Egyptians. It is why Moses can pass as an Egyptian. We all look very similar. Look at any statues of the Egyptian and you will find that they don't look Nordic nor black, but are clearly of the Mediteranean race. Why do they sometime look really dark? Well because unlike Nordics, Mediteranean are usually tanned and can get really tanned when they sit in the sun all day. Herodotus himself said that there is a clear relationship between the Greeks and Middle Easterners. Furthermore, Romans claimed that they had come from Troy, a city in Asia minor not North Europe. The oldest record of the Egyptians have them speaking an Afro-Asiatic language, the same linguistic group as all the Semitic languages in the Middle East. This constant bikerring from blacks and whites claiming Egypt is theirs is a whole bunch of crap and a disservice to our great race. It is clear why the white man wants our race to be part of theirs and why the black man wants our race to be part of theirs. Both races were stuck in the dark ages until they had contact with our civilizations. Which does not speak highly of either of your races considering that the Indians, Asians, and Native Americans were able to get further along without any help. Throughout known history, even today, our type has ruled the world. Europe which thinks so highly of itself, was in the dark ages until the Arabs invaded Spain, and with that Jews spread north into the Nordic race regions. If you look at any great scientist, you will realize two things, he is probably not black nor is he blond with blue eyes. Instead the chances are that he is derived from a Mediterranean race. It is why the Nazis hated the Jews. It is why white Americans still hate Jews. It is why once Europe accepted Jews and other Middle Easterners, it became enligtened. It is why once America accepted the Jews, it became the greatest nation on Earth. It is why this and many other countries are run by Jews. We don't show ourselves, but we are there in the back pulling all the strings, and you know it. Why else will Israel be getting money for nothing and Iraq getting its butt whooped. We don't like each other, but we know that we are definately related. Furthermore, we finally found the greatest way to live, have other races labor away for us and fight wars for us while we enjoy life. The Moors first stumbled onto this concept when they had black people join their armys. Us Jews just advanced this concept a little further. Get other races to fight the whole battle for you while keeping your race out of the war. And get other races to do all the repetitively stupid yet necessary steps in work while we do the real thinking. This way we get the best of both worlds, we control everything and we don't even have to work hard for it. And I dare anyone just try to deny what I said about the Egyptians or any other Mediterranean groups. You guys are pathetitc. I mean the statues in Egypt look so black. NOT!!!

David
Age: 32, USA - Tuesday, July 27, 1999 at 18:27:39 (EDT)


For an interesting view read "Out Of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa" by Keith B. Richburg. Read it, soak it in, and then review your beliefs.

been around the world
Age: 19, USA - Monday, July 26, 1999 at 16:14:03 (EDT)


Whew !!! What n Education I have received tonight. For years I had dreamed in a foreign language where I believed my name was Anu. I KNEW we were in a place in northern Africaand that my immediate kinspeople were a part of a larger "tribe." Oh, there is so much more to this story but until now I never had any evidence of history. Thank you for renewing my interest.....Anu

Anu Amen Maat s/n Nita Robinson <NitaRobinson@webtv.net>
Age: 44, Decatur, Ga USA - Friday, July 23, 1999 at 00:52:39 (EDT)


I recently read Cheikh Anta Diop on the African Contribution to Civilization: Fact or Myth I believe that I have been living in the dark about who I am, who I should portray myself as and what's amazing is that I was exposed to a lot of African History from my art teacher in High School. I believe he put the seed in my mind and probably hoped it would grow. I'm living proof that the seed not only grew but I feel reborn. I always knew something was missing in my religious beliefs. I never loved the white man that you saw everywhere that people worshipped as Jesus. I felt empty when I tried to love "him". Now I am trying to read all that I can on my Black Heritage. I feel full. You guys keep up the web site!!!!!

Doris <thefrenches@earthlink.net>
Age: 36, Compton, CA USA - Thursday, July 22, 1999 at 03:21:01 (EDT)


I hope people are aware of the possible discovery of Queen Sheba's burial ground in Nigeria. A 70ft high wall that's goes 100 miles around was found east of Lagos two months ago by british and Nigerian archeologist. One million more tons of earth was moved to make this than the great pyramid of Giza. It is the second largest man-made monmument on earth other than the Great Wall of China. The local people call the sight "Bilikibu Sungbo". Arab historians named Queen Sheba "Biliqies". Sounds very similar. Local people tell a story of a great queen who was buried there. If this is her grave sight, then this could mean biblical ramifications. Maybe the Ark of the Convenant is not too far behind. For those who want to know more, check out the BBC website and search for either Queen of Sheba or african news. No matter how they hide that we're gods people, things like this shut them up.

Ade <bigchee_@excite.com>
Age: 26, Brooklyn, Ny USA - Friday, July 16, 1999 at 19:11:45 (EDT)


i have found a copy of the pyramid texts and will post every relevant passage that speaks to the blackness of ancient egypt

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Wednesday, July 14, 1999 at 21:13:00 (EDT)


does anyone own a copy of the pyramid texts? there are no copies in print at this time(that i know of). e. a. wallis budge quotes them often in showing the blackness of egypt and its connection to nubia. i am awaiting a reprint of the texts by r. o. faulkner, however long that may be. the pyramid texts are, to my understanding, the oldest written material from which we can understand the nature of ancient egypt.

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Sunday, July 11, 1999 at 23:33:09 (EDT)


HMP... I SEE NOTHING HAS CHANGED HERE*L*

PHAROAH
USA - Thursday, July 08, 1999 at 16:27:17 (EDT)


My thanks to this site and its keepers for disseminating so much lost (or ignored, or deliberatly obscured ) history, opinions,philosophy, etc. I am half slovak, half scottish and irish. I am a pantheist, and i think that we (meaning all of us - all tribes) are the children of the Gods - and that, created in the image of many creators, we are strands in the web of life, different, and beautifull, as facets on a gem, or the colors in the light spectrum. Life is manifested in limitless form - form is temporal, spirit is undying. I think that self respect begins the journey to respect others and the world around us. I am excedingly proud of my celtic heratige - it helps make me Who i am, but it is a foundation only for me to build myself upon, and to enrich, but not limit me, or my self expression. Many races, tribes, ethnic groups, civilizations - have contributed to the history of the Earth - but i think individuals accomplish more - or can, than cultures - for instance Mr Clegg - who gave you all the opportunity to study, reminice, ponder, share, debate, argue,even insult one another ( which is needless } - but you see how one can affect others - people, individualls, create culture, as they create themselves. What would the world be if we were all the same? Shared the same beliefs? Lived in the same climate? Boring. What would we be without each other? Lessened. Lonely. See the divine in everyone, look past the illusion of physical manifestation - Beauty is diversity. Indivdual, ethnic, national, tribal pride is good - arrogance and self styled supremmesy is blasphemy aginst Life, and leads to destruction. We all contribute to our World, differently, but no less valuably. Looking forward to more reading - History is my favorite. Blessed Be Peace of Jah Salaam Alekum Shalom Aleichem

andrew treesinger <andruid@aracnet.com>
USA - Wednesday, July 07, 1999 at 05:53:20 (EDT)


A message to the Pan African pt 2 Did Arabs enslave Africans ? PEACE BE TO YOU WITH ALL DUE RESPECTS It is ridiculous to believe that Arabs overruled and enslaved African people on a wholescale colonialist, type mission, as proposed by today's so-called Afrocentric movement. The most popular Afrocentric perspective of Al Islam is basically the same as the Eurocentric view of man, history, and reality. The Afrocentric movement has with some degree of success, analysed, critiqued and revised the biased and most certainly racist presentation of Africa by so called European historians. However when it comes to Al Islam and the Muslims, it [the Afrocentric movement] embraces it [the Eurocentric view], wholeheartedly. Particularly as it relates to Al Islam's usefulness among African Americans/ Caribbean's and its major role in African history. In fact, in some cases Europeans have been much fairer in their writings, analysis and projections of Islam than many of the leading advocates of Afrocentricity. The most popular Afrocentric perspective of Al Islam is that it, like Christianity, led to the destruction of African civilisation; and that Islam is a religion/way of life/philosophy created by Arabs for the advancement and edification of Arabs and their culture. Al Islam, according to many advocates of Afrocentricity is not an indigenous African religion and therefore African people should reject it. [i.e. John Hendrik Clarke, Chancellor Williams, Dr Ben Youchannon ] WHAT FOOLISHNESS!!! WHAT HYPOCRISY!!! Nothing could be further from the truth. Aside from the fact that The Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] his family, and many of his companions [pbut], were pure black Arabs of African origin, the basic principles of Islam do in fact have their roots among the ancient Africans i.e. The unity of The Creator, Worship, Life after death, Moral [community] laws, Polygamy, Fasting, Showing respect [not worship] to our ancestors, Male and Female circumcision, Judgement day…to name a few… The Quraan came and confirmed some of these ancient practices. Because Islam [The peaceful submission to The One Creator] was and is THE religion, culture and spiritual expression of all times, taking on various forms at different times, locations, tribes, languages and environments, while fundamentally remaining the same essence. The Quraan as revealed to the blessed Muhammad [pbuh] is the completion [final revelation] of ALL those spiritual expressions. Yet the average ' Pan Africanist' is so engulfed in their zealousness for countering the Eurocentric deception of Africa and it's peoples [particularly Egypt], that very little if any, research is done on equally countering the historical and ongoing deception of Islam, Arabs and Africans. The Kaffers [disbeliveers and enemies of Al Islam] conceal the truth and are constantly engaged in mass deception. The increasing incidence by those who accuse pale Arabs of enslaving Africans, must be in response to the fact that reversions to Islam is highest amongst the African communities in America and Europe. In other words, the Kaffir's devious strategy of enslaving Africans, taking them away from Islam and Arabic [one of the literate languages of their enslaved ancestors] has FAILED and is FAILING, after 500 years of trying. And what a spectacular failure! ISLAM WAS SPREAD BY THE SWORD: A very popular accusation. There is no truth to this expression. If Islam was spread by the sword, what did the non-Muslim army facing the Muslim army have in their hands? Did they have sticks or toothpicks ? They too, must have had swords !!! The sword was the weapon of war at that time. Is it possible that the swords Muslims had in those days were sharper than those of Africans ? Are you suggesting that the blackman, with all his scientific knowledge and heavily melanated physique, is really just a wimp ? And where is ' the sword ' of Islam in America, where the Muslims now number 6 million and 50% of them are African American ? Did Arabs Attack Brooklyn, Bronx, Detroit, Washington, Brixton, Manchester, London, Birmingham and Leeds ? OF COURSE NOT !!! SO WHO DID ENSLAVE AFRICANS? Africans are physically the strongest of all the nations / tribes on the earth when it comes to ground or one on one combat. Pale Arabs are not only physically weaker than Africans but far less numerically, both in modern and ancient times. SEE how the oil-rich Arab countries are totally dependent on military personnel (mercenaries) from Europe, America and Pakistan for their defence from fellow Muslims in Iraq and Iran! The only people who had the strength to take on Africans and enslave Africans were Africans themselves - NOT the Arabs and NOT the Europeans. Many of the Africans who were enslaved were Muslim Africans. [ Deeper Roots = Dr Abdullah Hakim Quick; African Muslims in the Atlantic slave trade = A.Austin ; Roots = Alex Haley; Christianity, Islam and the Negro race; E.W.Blyden; African Muslims Enslaved in the Americas; Sylviane .A.Diof ] Many of the Africans who did the enslaving were Christian Africans who had converted to the faith after relinquishing their own tribalistic spirituality. THE CHRISTIANS During the dominant European period of slave trading, the 'Scramble for Africa' and colonisation, Christian Ethiopia was the only African State that was left virtually untouched by European colonisation. In fact its empire doubled in size during the 'Scramble for Africa'! On page 442 of 'The Triumph of the West' by J.M. Roberts, there is a map of the world showing those parts of the globe that came under Western domination by 1914. Ethiopia stands out like a sore thumb and so does Liberia and Sierra Leone who were Christian states created by Britain and America for the settlement of intellectually, morally and spiritually `weak' Africans who had been Christianised! BLACK POWER. Famous Islamic scholar Al-Jihaz (778-868) wrote of the physical superiority of the Africans nations over all other nations. For example, he states: "We Blacks have conquered the country of the Arabs as far as Mecca and governed them. The desert swarm with the number of our men who married your women and who became chiefs and defended you against your enemies. You even have sayings in your language which vaunt the deeds of our kings - deeds which you often placed above your own; this you would not have done had you not considered them superior to your own. We defeated Dhu Nowas (Jewish ruler of Yemen) and killed all the Himyarite princes, but the Arabs and Whites (from Europe) have never conquered our country. Our people, the Zinges (an African race), revolted forty times in the Euphrates, driving the inhabitants from their homes...Blacks are physically stronger. A single one of them can lift stones of great weight and carry burdens such as several whites could not lift nor carry between them. They are brave, strong...- these good traits are the gifts of God." [Excerpt taken from the book 'The Superiority of the blacks over the whites']. When the last Prophet (pbuh) was born - in the `Year of the Elephant', Abraha Al-Arsham - the self styled emperor of Ethiopia and Yemen tried to attack the Kaaba at Mecca with a force of 40,000 men, cavalry and armoured elephants. The pale Arabs could not fight the Ethiopians nor could they even defend their own territory. The Arabs fled on their camels to the top of the mountains. This is a well-documented fact in Islamic and Arabian history. There is even a prophetic tradition, which states that one of the signs of ' the end of time ' would be that the Abassynians [ancient word for blacks] would attack and control Mecca for a period of time. [Signs of the times = ibn Kathir ] SEE how millions of Arabs are unable to fight a handful of Zionists in Palestine today even though the Arabs have a numerical (population) and financial (oil wealth / petrol-dollars) advantage. So how can Arabs have enslaved a physically stronger nation when they cannot even fight and displace an occupier [pale Jews] who are described in the Quran as people who turn their back on you. [I.e. cowards when it comes to fighting?] SEE how the Iraqis 'fought' and surrendered in the Gulf War and compare with how the Afghans and Vietnamese fought to the death or until victory was achieved against Russia and America respectively. Yet, HIS storybooks tell us that pale Arabs are the people who enslaved Africans! WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH!!! EGYPT/ETHIOPIA Soon after the Last Prophet (pbuh) passed away, the Arabs moved out of the Arabian Peninsula and went into Egypt to free the indigenous Egyptian population from the tyrannical rule of the Romans. In 643 AC, Abdullah the new Arab governor-general (viceroy) of Egypt, decided to go into the Heartland of Africa against Ethiopia with a larger and better-equipped army. However, the Arabs suffered a major and massive military defeat at the hands of the Ethiopians where the whole Arab army was wiped out. An Arab historian of the period felt compelled to admit that it was the most devastating defeat ever suffered by an Arab army. Thereafter, the Arabs became more cautious, changed direction and proceeded with revealing the Last Message along the North African coast, crossing into Spain in 711. However, Ethiopia remained the only Christian State in Africa until the arrival of the European colonialists. Read 'The Destruction of Black Civilisation' by Chancellor Williams, Third World Press, Chicago, Illinois, 1976. By the time slavery had started in the 1400s, the Arabs had become significantly weakened as a military force by the time of the Western Crusades (1095-1250s) and the Eastern Crusades, namely the Christian-backed Mongol invasion that culminated in the sacking of Baghdad in 1258. Their military response to these successive invasions can best be described as pathetic. The Arabs were 'saved' only by the intervention of non-Arab Muslims e.g. Sala'udin Ayubi - from Kurdistan, the Mamelukes (Muslim kinsmen to the non-Muslim Mongols and Tartars) and then the Ottomans who took over the Caliphate. The Arabs were in no position to enslave other people after suffering such bruising attacks from Central Asia. THE AFRICAN PESENCE IN ASIA When Islamic rule was at the height of its splendour in India, there was a considerable influx of African Muslims from east Africa. Coming as traders and mercenaries, and settling in the Deccan (east of Bombay) and Bengal region (Barbek Shah, Malik Amber, Malik Andeel, Mawla, Admiral Sambal, Admirals Masud and Ali Kasam; Generals Kafur, Abudullah, Rahim Khan, Abdul Rahman, Battla, Belal, Forts, Hillol, Ibrahim Khan, Jauhar, Johar, Kasim Sabaun, Sambal, Sat, and the eminent military commander, Yakut Khan. Ekhaz Khan was a noted Sultan. In time they emerged from the mass to form the backbone of armies and became, great military and naval commanders, hereditary admirals, and in several instances, Sultans [Prime Ministers]. [African presence in ancient Asia = Dr Ivan Van Sertima] Under their own commanders, they eventually became the source of central power. Their presence brought them into conflict with the Afghan, Turkish and Mughal rulers of North, Central and East India. The Afghans, who have a fiercesome reputation for fighting, being the only Muslim country to have successfully fought off colonialism by beating Britain an imperial power three times and then a perceived superpower, Russia . However, even Afghan chiefs were unable to beat the African Muslims in south India and Bengal, even when they outnumbered them four-to-one. [Ibid.]. DID EUROPEANS ENSLAVE AFRICANS? Relatively speaking European and American armies are physically weak and cowards, and are totally dependent on heavy protection (armour plating, helmets, bulletproof equipment, chemical weapons, stealth bombers etc) because they FEAR death and their hypocritical chattering classes FEAR body bags. Their soldiers even have to get drunk just to pluck up enough courage to chat up loose woman in a bar! MODERN WARFARE They don't like fighting man-to-man in a field and away from built-up areas and so resort to attacking civilian infrastructure such as roads, bridges, power stations, women, children (collateral damage) because these `targets' can't and don't hit back. Their technology is 'stand-off' where they can fire projectiles without even seeing the enemies' eyes. POLICE BRUTALITY Whenever there is TV / video footage of an American / British policemen beating up an Afro-American / Afro-Caribbean - the African is always outnumbered by his attackers because his attackers are too scared to take him on - man-to-man / on a one-to-one basis. [Remember Joy Gardener, Steven Lawrence, Duane Douglas, Rodney King e.t.c.] GHETTOES Some of the cities, in which Africans have a large presence in America and Europe, are known as NO GO AREAS because the indigenous population FEARS them. So if white man FEARS walking through his own land, how could he have travelled to the DARK CONTINENT to enslave Africans, having only just discovered the world is not flat and monsters do not inhabit the sea? CHINA Britain could not fight the Chinese and so introduced opium as a way of weakening them. In order to rule and maintain its empire, Britain created the two million strong British Indian army - the largest all volunteer army ever created in the history of mankind. Consisting of the so-called martial races of South Asia. This army was deployed against the Muslims of Africa, the Ottomans, even fellow Asians - the Chinese in the Opium Wars. In World War 1, Britain had to resort to conscription because not enough men came forward to fight, whilst in its colonies, the natives of India VOLUNTEERED. Now they are recruiting women to fight on the front-line. THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS Sitting Bull, the Leader of the Teton Sioux, c.1831 to 1890 said: "We have now to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing..." The Americans could not fight the Native American Indians man-to-man, and so fought them indirectly by wiping out the buffalo, which the Red Indians were totally dependent on for food / meat, clothing, milk, transport, trade, etc. Another tactic was the use of germ warfare i.e. deliberately infecting the Native Americans with European diseases. VIETNAM The debacle in Vietnam and Somalia is further evidence of their weakness and cowardice. In fact when stooges like Martin Luther King came on the scene it was at a time when the war in Vietnam was stepping up and men were needed to fight in Vietnam. They wanted African-Americans to fight their war in Vietnam because they themselves are cowards. People like Clinton fled to Europe to avoid the call-up or as he says because of his conscience towards the war, though his conscious does not extend to bombing defenceless Muslims in Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan. Thus the head of the American armed forces is a coward. Stooges like Martin Luther King wanted equality for Afro-Americans and once achieved, they could then go and fight in Vietnam as equal citizens of America! But African-American Muslims like Muhammad Ali - the famous boxer saw through this trick. THE GULF WAR As to the Gulf War - the Arabs are not a formidable fighting force today and hence their reliance on mercenaries. Indeed they are so desperate they even rely on cowardly Kaffer mercenaries for their protection! Some of these Kaffer armies have to recruit women to fight on the front-line because their own men don't want to fight. [Women on the frontline; article TIME magazine Sept. 1993] GHANA It took hundreds of years for mechanised European armies to colonise the whole of Africa. For example, in the Ashanti wars of the early nineteenth century, the British tried to occupy the hinterland of the Gold Coast (now called Ghana). There were eleven major wars in this conflict. The Ashanti won ALL of them, except the last. In these wars, Ashanti generals - and we should call them generals, because they were more than equal to the British generals who failed to conquer them - stopped the inland encroachment of the British was. In 1896 the British exiled the Ashanti King Prempeh, but still were not able to take over completely the hinterland of the Gold Coast. The British still did not give up their desire to establish their authority in the interior of the country and avenge the many defeats they had suffered at the hands of Ashanti. It took the British nearly a century of fighting with the Ashanti before they gained total control of the region. So if mechanised British troops had so much difficulty colonising a coastal region, how did Arabs manage to enslave millions of Africans and sell them into slavery? SUDAN When Britain colonised Egypt they began fighting with Muhammad Ahmad ('Mahdi' of Sudan) - an African Muslim. The British organised three mechanised armies against the Muhammad Ahmad, namely the Anglo-Egyptian Army, the British Indian Army and the Ottoman Army. Muhammad Ahmad and his followers were only armed with swords and spears. In one encounter, Muhammad Ahmad and the African Muslims massacred all 10,000 Arabs of the Anglo-Egyptian Army. One of Britain's best generals, a coward by the name of Charles Gordon was killed. Britain then had to send another one of its elite generals of the British Army (a sodomite called Kitchener) to destroy the Sudanese Muslims. It took a MECHANISED army to destroy Muhammad Ahmad and his followers. Winston Churchill was a reporter at the time and his despatches describe the sheer bravery of the African Muslims who fought to the death against the might of combined modern armies from Egypt, Britain and India, without fear or cowardice. Read 'Scramble for Africa', and 'The White Nile' =A.Moorehead . SOMALIA When America, a perceived superpower went into Somalia in 1993, for so called peacekeeping duties, young African Somalis forced their military out. American soldiers armed to the teeth with all their sophisticated weaponry could not 'take on' the African boys. So whoever enslaved Africans had to be physically strong. Otherwise, as Mike Tyson has recently shown an angry African can easily bite your ear off! What about the Maroons of the Carribean? And the countless slave revolts in North and South America? When Britain fought against the 'Mad Mullah' in Somalia, 10,000 Christians from Ethiopia joined them. NO ONE BUT AFRICANS COULD HAVE ENSLAVED AFRICANS, and it was Christians Africans who were taking Muslim Africans captives and selling them to the Europeans at the coast. There was a crusade / Jihad taking place between African Muslims and African Christians. It is unbelievable and illogical to believe that Muslims would sell prisoners of war to their enemies, particularly as the enemies are Christians from Europe who had recently ended the 700 year old Moorish civilisation in Spain, and are now conquering Muslim North and West Africa. Moreover, in a Jihad [struggle, Holy war], prisoners of war and their property are considered as lawful war booty and the property of the Amir and the Islamic State which the Amir distributes to enhance the power of the Islamic State and reward those who have given their resources and lives in Jihad. This is the Sunnah [practice] of the Prophet (pbuh). And if you do a little research you will find that this was the practice of warring African tribes, prior to the arrival of Europeans. Did the Prophet (pbuh) ever sell the war booty to his enemies, thereby weakening his power and strengthening the enemies' power ? NO. Prisoners of war are valuable because there is reward for converting them to Islam, as marital partners, as servants, as ransom, etc. In each case the quantity and strength of Muslims increases. DOES SLAVERY STILL EXIST IN AFRICA TODAY ? THE SUDAN Recently there has been a lot of media speculation about alledged slavey in Sudan. Sudan, formally known as Kush in ancient times, represents the African microcosm in all respects: ethnic, cultural and even in respect to its former colonial powers. Like almost every other African country, not only was Sudan bequeathed an ethnic problem, the problem was itself created and nursed during the colonial period and the conflict seems to have become so dear to its creators that they would not allow the Sudanese to come to any mutual agreement. NUBIANS Historically the northern Sudanese are descendants of the ancient Egyptians and Nubians of the Nile Valley. Over different periods of time people of various ethnic origins [Greeks, Romans, Turks and Arabs both black and pale skinned] has populated the Nile Valley. These migrations have resulted in a small part of the population in the north having a hybrid or mixed appearance. But for the most part, the majority of the Nubians have retained their African features and customs. [ Chaik Anta Diop = The African Origin of Civilisation ]. By the time Islam had become the dominant culture in Sudan [north, west and east], the ancient Kushitic civilisation had long since declined. There was also a large presence of black Arabs who had migrated from southern Arabia and had intermarried with the local inhabitants. [History of the Sudan = Dr Abdullah Tarik al Mansour]. The people embraced Islam [not forced on them as you silly Pan Africanists advocate] and Arabic became the language of trade, commerce and communication in the north. The south remained animist and distant from the changes in the north. Later on it would embrace Christianity through the European missionaries although still up until this day, there still remains a large percentage of animists. In the past, race, ethnicity, identity and difference were limited problems, which were resolved in a civil manner. Even the wars they had with each other did not reach the heights of barbarism that we see today in Africa [i.e. Rwanda, Sierra Leon, Burundi, Ethiopia, Eritrea and Liberia]. Sudan has been facing such a problem for the past 15 years, although to their credit there has been no reports of tribal massacres or ethnic cleansing. It is guerrilla warfare, which is currently taken place there between a small band of southerners [between 2-4 thousand] and the government forces, [which includes southern tribes who are against the southern rebel army]. It is not a full-scale north Vs south war as the media would have you believe. If you were to travel to the Sudanese capital Khartoum, you will see hundreds of thousands of southern tribes living, working, marrying and generally living at ease with the Nubian [northern] tribes. The western press have used terms such as Muslim Vs Christians or worse still Arabs Vs Africans and the Afrocentric movement who at one point accuse the western press of distorting news or history, but hypocritically support the press on their tirade against the Sudanese government. Another point to consider is that the rebels in the south have been joined by Muslims from the north who are composed of the main opposition parties in Sudan. So basically it is political problem as well as ethnical and religious. It is black Vs black just as in the rest of Africa, and The Caribbean, where there is conflict and strife. But the Afrocentrist doesn't want to see it that way. Why? Because Muslims are involved and we know you don't like Islam. As far as the allegations of slavery are concerned, it can not be denied that individuals have taken advantage of the situation and this is a shame on African people and the Muslims and those who are participating in this inhumane practice need to be condemned [I could say worse]. However the situation has been definitely blown up out of proportion and we should be wary of white Christian groups such as Red Cross or Christian Solidarity International, who are at the forefront of the slavery propaganda machine. It is not just the 'selling' of Africans that should be our prior commitment, equally so we should be concerned about the 'trade' taking place in our communities right on our doorstep i.e. The selling of drugs within our communities by Africans The selling of fast-food within our communities The selling of degenerate music within our communities by Africans The selling of negative movies within our communities acted and promoted by Africans The selling of so called designer clothing within our communities designed by whites, sold and worn by Africans The selling of indecent clothing for our women designed and worn by Africans African men and women selling their bodies on the streets Informants within the community who will spy on organisations and sell them to the authority Recording artists who sell their soul to the Devil and then sell millions of records to African youth The selling of dangerous cosmetics such as bleaching cream, hair perms and fake hair weaves. Made by whites, sold and used by Africans The selling of silly tabloid newspapers such as The voiceless Voice, The few New Nation and The joke Journal, which continue to give African people useless and trivial information The selling of our children from 9-5pm, to day-care nurseries and poorly run ethnic majority populated schools The selling of guns within our communities, made by whites, sold to blacks who in turn sell to and kill other blacks The selling of glossy Negro magazines which are full of black wannabe's [Ebony, Essence, Black Beauty….] The selling of poorly written Afrocentric history books which contain contradictory information, a lack of sufficient evidence, poor sentence and grammar construction and last but not least are confusing as to which direction they are going. This does not include eminent scholars, the likes of Dr Ivan Van Sertima, William Preston, J.A Rogers, John Hendrik Clarke [?], Runuko Rashidi, W.E.deBoise, Edward Wilmont Blyden, Chaik Anta Diop, and Wayne Chandler, of whom I don't agree 100% but they stand head and shoulders above most of the emotional drivel that is currently saturating the market of our historical knowledge. This was partly addressed in a book entitled 'THE SCIENCE OF MELANIN: DESPELLING THE MYTHS = T.Owens. Moore' Now you tell me which one is worse. Physical slavery or mental slavery? Or are they as bad as each other ? FACE THE FACTS So, it was Africans who made the slave trade possible through ignorance, greed and envy. And yes all were involved [Animists, Christians and Muslims]. It is a sad and painful truth but a reality we have to contend with if we are to become the people we are supposed to be. The romanticising about Africa and its peoples has to stop. There has always been a negative element amongst us from way back. Their descendants are amongst us today reaping havoc and hell in our communities, countries, organisations and leadership. If you are sincerely seeking the truth about Al Islam then you should go to the primary source, which is The Quraan. If you are going to judge Islam by the Muslims then you will find fault because people often do not reflect their beliefs in the prescribed way, which in turn breeds hypocrisy. Even We the conscious African aware advocates, have our own individual shortcomings. We are all [humans] here [on earth], striving on the path of knowledge, truth and enlightenment. But it is not an easy path, what you may say and do today can easily change tomorrow, but the true and sincere believers know that ALLAH'S [GOD] TRUTH is infinite and with it there is no confusion. In conclusion I leave you with this beautiful narration from The Beloved Messenger of ALLAH, The Unseen Source of ALL Creation: 'The Believers in their mutual love, compassion and sympathy are like one body When one of it's parts suffers from some illness, the rest of the body shares its Suffering with sleeplessness and fever' [ Sahih Al Bukhari vol. 1] TO BE CONTINUED…… Aswad

Abdul Kareem Ibraheem al Salih <aswad@talk21.com>
Age: 33, London, England, U.K - Monday, July 05, 1999 at 10:02:32 (EDT)


"The social features of pre-patriarchal society have sometimes survived under conditions of advanced civilization. This happen notably in Egypt. Down to the time when a dynasty of Greek rulers sought to introduce foreign usages, the conservative society of the great African kingdom, which has contributed so largely to the material and intellectual culture of the Western world, never lost the lineaments of a matriarchal social order... "The functions of royalty in ancient Egypt were regarded as being transmitted in the female line. While every Egyptian princess of the royal house was born a queen and bore the titles and dignities of the office from the day of her birth, a man only acquired them at his coronation, and could do so only by becoming the consort of a royal princess...Those features of the constitution of Egyptian royalty are not singular. They are substantially identical with those obtaining in all other African kingdoms." [The Mothers, pp. 274-75, by Robert Briffault] I will expound on this notion briefly: One of the most predominate (almost solely African) cultural traits of Black African people is the notion of matriarchy and the matriarchal ascendancy to the throne. Through out Africa, it was the woman who ultimately wielded power and decided who would be her "king". In Egypt, you will find a picture of Seti I sitting on the lap of Auset (Isis), symbolically saying "all my power of authority derive from the throne", Auset means throne. In African worldview, the women constituted the first teachers within society, head of the household as the ancestress, originator of hieroglyphic script , founder of agriculture and a myriad of other things. There is a saying that "the nation can rise no higher than its woman." In Ethiopia, the kingdom was ruled by warrior-queens known as Candances, reminiscent of Hatshepshut-the female Heru. The Asante of Ghana (my Akan ancestresses and ancestors) fought 5 wars with the British and only lost one, which was the last war. The British had managed the kidnap and hold hostage the Queen Mother Yaa Asentewaa. The Queen Mother technically had greater power than the King. Almost everywhere, you will find statues of the king supported by the Queen. It says a fence falls without support. As a research anthropologist and a writer, I have culturally linked the Dravidian, hill tribes, and Munda (Veddoids) of South India with Africa based on cultural characteristics and linguistic correlation. One example which I will allude to is matriarchy. Before the Aryans invaded the local people held a belief in Kali (Black) who was the beneficent mother goddess and in many respects, she was the Auset (Isis) of India. She is known to dance on her inert consort Shiva stomach, similar to the diligent Auset over her inert consort Ausar (Osiris). When the Aryans came in, Kali was Aryanize into a Black flesh eating four-armed monster, who wields a sword, a shield, a bloody skull, and a noose (compare with the Sumerian Lilith). (This Aryanization because the bases for Hinduism and its counterpart caste system) Some of the locals, I met with, still follow her traditional cult today, other local people are now stratified in the caste system of Southern India. A few scholars theorize Kali represent what is Black, feminine and matriarchal, which the invading Aryans despise so much to the point that she is now conceptualized as evil. The same is true for the Adam (Zakar) and "Eve" -evil - Havah (Nekbayaw possibly misspelled but it means tribal leader) story. Most people believe in a dual couple created together since Nyame (God) is impartial to sex. One of my mentors said that the Golden Calf in the OT was Het-Heru (Hathor) and the feminine principle was personified as the cow (closest to Mother Earth). But the Hebrew people or possibly Greek? (a new spin) being patriarchal destroyed the feminine principle and thus the woman with the word of God to establish a male-dominated society. When we study early Hebrew culture, we see many things were borrowed from the Canaanites who were a matriarchal people as well. Even Jehovah was a Canaanite deity and had a consort, likewise, according to an ever-increasing number of scholars, the Hebrews practice a Queen of Heaven worship along side of Jehovah. It was after Solomon's time that the male God Jehovah was supreme as the jealous God and you shall place no other god before me. Hetepu, Kwabena

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, July 01, 1999 at 19:28:49 (EDT)


Pan-Afrikanism may not as much a myth as it is being presented. Yes, many ethnic groups in Africa exhibit various external cultural differences, but this may not apply to the interenal mechanisms driving these expressions. Many African people, be they from East or West Africa have festivals similiar to Kwanzaa or more specifically first fruits. Do not limit the worldview of Africans based on superficial or face-value appearances. One of these cultural similiarities is this:

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, July 01, 1999 at 19:17:44 (EDT)


You may have physically lived in various places, but you have not seemed to grasp your surroundings. So-called "tribes" exist throughout the world, either that, ethnicities or religions. Kwanzaa was created in the USA, as an African-American celebration. However, it is picking up momentum worldwide. No one ever said it was a celebration in Africa. And as for Egypt, when folks migrated to that area, there was no desert. So you see, although you may have lived in various places, you are not educated about them - you are too busy looking for the negative.

Karen C. Aboiralor <KCAMM23063@aol.com>
Oakland, CA USA - Thursday, July 01, 1999 at 13:03:01 (EDT)


Pan-africanism is a western myth. You cannot use swahili and wear daishiki's at the same time. They're from two totally differnt cultures. Sub-saharan africa is all about tribes. I lived in Kenya for four years and was able to experience Africa. And about Kwanzaa, when I lived in Kenya, Kwanzaa was not even a major festival as it's portrayed here in the U.S. About Egypt, are you saying it's more plausible that people made the long trek up through the Saharan Desert to live at the Nile Delta as opposed to people making the quick hop through the Sianai Peninsula from Saudi Arabia or the Middle East?

been around the world
Age: 19, USA - Thursday, July 01, 1999 at 05:31:45 (EDT)


It never seems to fail: No matter how much information is positioned to refute the Eurocentric claims, we always will have non-believers. Anglo-Saxon males were themselves eventually conquered and lorded over by Norman masters to serve as serfs/ owned to the land. The Norman victors were never uprooted from the British Isles, but what they did was assimilate into the peasant populace by name changes. These invading conquerors has since maintain a lord/vassal status with the wretched Anglo-Saxons. If we look at the House of Windsor today, they claim descent from the House of Plantagenet, which was the House of William the Conqueror, a Norman king. We have evidence to throw out any Cauc-asians claim to superiority. If I'm not mistaken its was our ancestors and blood relatives who invaded and ruled Andalusia (Spain) for 700 years. These individuals are reputed to have civilized the Visigoths of Spain and their Vandal kinsmen. Even El Cid could do nothing but admire these sable men as they transformed a barbaric society into the olive fields today. At the height of their ascendancy, these children of West and North Africa would make cities such as Toledo, Granada, Seville and a few others famous for intellectual progression, cultivation of unquie resources, theological and philosophical pondering, scientific advances and add infinitum. With the scientific skill and mariner expertise of these pitch black hue-mans, Columbus would have never proposed "his" theory that the world was round. Africans have been knowing this fact for ages; there goes the supremacy hypothesis. Before you speak, put thought into your comment, instead of expressing your unfounded and uneducated emotions. Exercise of this mode only showcases ignorance. Also, the Anglo-Saxons were battered by the Scandivian Vikings during the pre-Norman era. What happen to Wessex (West Saxon)? Just a thought.

Kwabena Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, June 30, 1999 at 18:13:05 (EDT)


It never happened .... blacks have never ruled the world and only seldom ruled their own kind. I realize that this is not a "politically-correct" statement but your collection of so-called historical documentation is ficticious - well done but phony! Dream on - you may not want to believe that 3 plus 2 equals 5 but it really does and nothing can change that. Declarations can be made and emotions can demand attention but women and certain races of people have always been and will always be weaker than the obvious Anglo-Saxon male. The apparent exceptions to this rule rests only in the fact that for political reasons certain weak groups are exalted for brief periods of time by their superiors - the Anglo-Saxon man. These weaker vessels are momentarily made to believe that they are gaining ground for the purpose of political and long-term complex goals of white organizations. Face it, there is nothing wrong or embarrassing about being weaker - it is the most natural thing in the universe and the principal is demonstrated in thousands of natural ways. Just accept it. You serve a purpose - God will reward your humility if you will occupy that role and allow the greater ones to occupy their roles - God is above all of us.

Rufus <Naarom@aol.com>
Age: 44, Indianapolis, IN USA - Wednesday, June 30, 1999 at 08:15:59 (EDT)


The Association of Africans and African-Americans, in conjunction with Wo'se Community Church, will meet on Sunday, August 1, 1999, 10:30 a.m., at Wo'se, in Oakland, California, in an effort to salvage and reclaim Africa for Africans. The leader and/or heads of all Pan African organizations worldwide are invited to meet under the direction of Dr. Gamal Gorkeh Nkrumah, Dr. Maulana Karenga, Dr. Oba T'Shaka, and others, in order to revive and revitalize all Pan African movements. At this time, support is being given from all over the world for this effort. We are looking for the support of all. If you are interested, or if you require further information, please do not hesitate to contact Karen C. Aboiralor, KCAMM23063@aol.com. It is important that this event will be a success.

Karen C. Aboiralor <Kcamm23063@aol.com>
Oakland, CA USA - Tuesday, June 29, 1999 at 04:46:58 (EDT)


To further progress thought processes, I have a topic to throw up: (1) Have any of you guys ever thought about the origin of dominoes and if this origin could have been among African peoples? Response: Taking note of the amount of African people, especially in the U.S., that play "bones" so adamantly, I believe one would be in fault to not consider dominoes' origin, especially if that origin could be traced back to our African ancestors. If we could be trace dominoes back to Africa, this could revolutionize the game of dominoes, especially from a cultural perspective; thus empowering the African mind with a cultural standing in a game which using analytical, mathematical, stragety building skills, and back full circle to a holistic picture for mind play. What's your take on this? Kwabena Adofo Danquah

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Sunday, June 27, 1999 at 17:37:53 (EDT)


For those commenting on the fact of the Beta-Israel or the Black Jews of Ethiopia, it would be relevant for one to understand the history of Ethiopia. Ethiopia's history is far much longer and more detailed than the supposedly conversion of the Queen of Sheba, her interlude with Solomon and the birth of Menelik I. When we study Ethiopia's history, we will find that Ethiopia was the impetus of civilization dating back to at least 7,000 years ago (older than the advent of the Hebrews as an ethnic group (2000 some years ago). It is go to know the Hebrew aspect, settlement and influence but not at the expense of more archaic dates. This is faulty and otherwise biased. African people are diverse and possess rich stories of old, we need not limit ourselves to one group among many of our people. Besides as your begin to study and expand your knowledge base, you will find more than enough comparisons/affliations to conclude to a cultural and historical continuity of African people. When we settle for one particular group or expression of the African continent, we as Africans in America cheat ourselves of our African identity. If we've studied the European slave trade, we've found that our ancestors did not come from one particular ethnic group but we are in essence poly-ethnic, in terms of origin. Thus, we, Africans in America are the supreme and paramount expression of Africa. We must not allow ourselves to be tribalized, for one this is against our story. Let circle be unbroken. In conclusion, one of our goals is to purge ourselves of other peoples' description of who and what we are. So in accordance with this goal, we should refrain from using the word "Jew" to described ourselves. If we are, in fact, Jews, we should using our ancestral inspiration call ourselves by our ancestral name or if all fails, create one that can instill in us some sense of ethnic and national identity. The time has come for us to stop being step it and fetch it lackeys to terms, values and concepts that are not ours. Africa is beautiful and her people are also. So let's just be African people learning our cultural identity and living the life our ancestors would prefer to live. Any comments e-mail me:

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, June 24, 1999 at 18:46:01 (EDT)


to the black jews i have trouble in reading and understanding what it is you are try to tell me. help me to unveil this fog of ignorance that now envelopes me ps you mention that i should read and believe the king james version of the bible...what's it got that the others dont?

thabang <thabang@hotmail.com>
Age: 28, los angeles, ca USA - Tuesday, June 22, 1999 at 05:41:58 (EDT)


itz time for US to STOP being OUR own POISON...

Arthur L. Davis Jr., USAF E-6 Ret/DAV <JahAfrikanSun@pobox.com>
Age: 56, Wilmington, DE USA - Monday, June 21, 1999 at 06:30:11 (EDT)


Greetings, Interesting post, Muenda. Lately, I have been trying to find some kind of historical data for Nimrod. This information is quite handy, since there is very few data on the subject. Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Tuesday, June 15, 1999 at 18:31:21 (EDT)


Greetings, Interesting post, Muenda. Lately, I have been trying to find some kind of historical data for Nimrod. This information is quite handy, since there is very few data on the subject. Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Tuesday, June 15, 1999 at 18:30:59 (EDT)


NEHESU, OR NE-ESSU, MEANS LION IN ASSYRIAN. NIMROD, IN ASSYRIAN NIMRU, MEANS LEOPARD, AND IN HEBREW IS RENDERED, ESSENTIALLY, NARMER. EVEN THE BIBLE STATES THAT THE FIRST GREAT PHAROAH, A MIGHTY WARRIOR UPON THE EARTH, WAS A NUBIAN. AND THE TERM TA NEHESU, MEANING "LAND OF THE LION", SEEMS TO FIT THE SITUATION. I FOUND THE ABOVE INFORMATION IN THE APPENDIX OF A BIBLE PUBLISHED AROUND 1893.

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Tuesday, June 15, 1999 at 17:41:48 (EDT)


PLEASE SEND ME ALL OF THE MAAT NEWS LETTERS FROM 1999

TYRONE GLENN <TGLENN@VALERO.COM>
Age: 33, PAULSBORO, NJ USA - Tuesday, June 15, 1999 at 10:09:51 (EDT)


Having the opportunity to work with Atty. Clegg on distributing MA'AT, I am continuously amazed with the level of detail (including footnotes) he puts into the newsletter. I think the effort is a mammoth undertaking especially for a FREE publication. I am in no way speaking for Atty. Clegg but keep in mind The Clegg Series is an educational vehicle but it is one that requires economical support. The ordering of The Clegg Series provides additional resources for its expansion and future development. I think if we appreciate MA'AT and the Clegg Series we should take the opportunity to purchase the video and/or audio tapes, get a copy into your local library and bookstores, and share MA'AT with friends and foes.

Rodney Jordan <raj@melanet.com>
Age: 34, Norfolk, VA USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 08:33:51 (EDT)


I hope everything is all right with the MAAT Newsletter family. I have been looking forward to the update of the Newsletter since the beginning of the year. I hope you are able to update it soon. I would like to offer my services and assistance. I am a writer and an aspiring historian and I would love an opportunity to keep your newsletter current. Peace and Love, Ra's Spirit. (Please respond).

A. Raheim <RasSpirit@aol.com>
Age: 47, MD USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 07:38:46 (EDT)


I hope everything is all right with the MAAT Newsletter family. I have been looking forward to the update of the Newsletter since the beginning of the year. I hope you are able to update it soon. I would like to offer my services and assistance. I am a writer and an aspiring historian and I would love an opportunity to keep your newsletter current. Peace and Love, Ra's Spirit. (Please respond).

A. Raheim <RasSpirit@aol.com>
Age: 47, MD USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 07:38:30 (EDT)


I hope everything is all right with the MAAT Newsletter family. I have been looking forward to the update of the Newsletter since the beginning of the year. I hope you are able to update it soon. I would like to offer my services and assistance. I am a writer and a aspiring historian and I would love an opportunity to keep your newsletter current. Peace and Love, Ra's Spirit. (Please respond).

A. Raheim <RasSpirit@aol.com>
Age: 47, MD USA - Monday, June 14, 1999 at 07:37:39 (EDT)


Hey, Family! Love the note from the Moderator, but all the facts in the world won't convince White people. Waiting for them to come around is like waiting for Jesus to come back. Speaking of which I need some advice... To say it in one sentence, I'm having mad difficulty abodoning Christianity in favor of an indigenous, pre-colonial african religion - here's why... The Bio: I was raised in the Pentecostal traditon, I believed the Bible was divine and infallable. I believed in divine healing and God used me to lay hands and heal two folk miraculously, some lady on a walker in church and my dying uncle. I could get "words" about peoples real condition when talking with them, things I had no way of knowing. I preached on campus (in the quad) my freshmen year in college, an all white (93%) college, I fasted, prayed regularly and studied the Bible with Greek and Hebrew concordances in other words in was Born again, sanctified, Holy Ghost filled, speaking in other tongues type of guy. Ok, bet. So I graduated, move, get married to someone heavier into it than me. Now, here comes the 2.2 Million Man March, Here come Grays Ferry (50 white males assualt an african woman and her children), and all the Black ministers want to do is condemn Farrakan and pray while a sister is getting deaththreats from here neighbors. I start questioning the God of these punkass preachers, them I start studying the origins of Christianity, Jesus and ancient Ta Meri (if you not squad Ta Meri is Egypt). I reading the Book of Coming Forth By Day, and other scriptures from KMT. Van Sertima, Yochaman, Massey, James, Asante, Karenga etc. I read the psalms Aknaten wrote that the authors of the Bible borrowed from, I read about Asar, Aset, Heru; the inmaculate conceiption, virgin birth, the resurrection, etc, and I'm still reading about the fact that no egyptogist or Jewish archeologist has ever found any evidence of the Exodus, of the patriarchs Abraham, Issac or Jacob. Jericho was deserted long before anybody like an Isreali got there. There is no nonsectarian evidence of Jesus or Joshua Ben Joseph ever existing. The closest you can come is Josephus, the sellout, warrior-history who claim Vespian was the Messiah to save his ass when Rome put Jeresalem on lock. The are only there brief referances to Jesus in all his volumes. Many folk think that the Christian scribes, who preserved his work, inserted those references. The other nonsectarian references to Jesus are mentioned by the Early Church Fathers, but these documents no longer exist, guess we just have to take their word for it - sike! How come the Bible still hits the spot, but the Husia...I don't always feel it. Many people in my family have seen Jesus in visions and such. I mean, now I think maybe Jesus was an initiate in the Mystery System, but his story was coopted after his death to serve the purposes of Rome. You gotta remember the first New Testament books were Paul's letters, the gospels came after. Paul was a Roman citizen. Rome eventually made Christianity the official religion. I could go on, but hey anybody got any insight, not dogma I can quote chapter and verse wit the best. Thanks. Johnathan, an african who is tried of hearing abouts Jewish "history" sunday mornings to get close to God.

Johnathan <hardingmedia@hotmail.com>
Age: 30, Philly, pa USA - Sunday, June 13, 1999 at 19:30:24 (EDT)


This is in response to Delakufa's question about the "racial writings". The white "egyptologists" deliberately translated the term "Nahasi" as "Negro"/"Black". Actually, "Nahasi" was a name of some of the Blacks who lived to the south of Kamit. The Kamau and the Nahasi were sometimes at odds with one another. Yet, these were two unmixed Black-African groups who were alternately at odds and diplomatic during various periods of their interactions with one another. You can confirm the identical ethnicity/race of the Kamau and Nahasi by viewing one of the full-color murals found in Rameses III's tomb. In this mural, the four races that inhabited Kamit at the time are painted in full-color. The first is a painting of a Kamau citizen "reth". He is a jet-black African. Standing next to him is a foreigner who is an "Aamu". He is a light-skinned non-African. The third individual in the mural is a "Nahasi". He is painted as a jet-black African---the same color as the Kamau citizen. The last individual in the mural is a light-skinned foreigner called "Tamahou". He is a non-African Arab-type. This full-color mural can be found in the book "Egypt Revisited" by Ivan Van Sertima. It can be found in black and white in the books "Civilization or Barbarism" by Cheik Anta Diop, as well as "Egyptian Yoga" by Muata Ashby. The difference between the person of Kamit and the Nahasi is similar to the difference between the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda and Burundi. They have been at odds, but not because they are of different races. Hetep.

Kwesi
USA - Monday, June 07, 1999 at 13:43:07 (EDT)


You know that all over the world will bring into destruction among peoples and cities. this amercia will destory and middle east will destory and russia will destory and china will destory and even europe will destory in every where. when world turn into world war III. Because the world had may nucler bomb in america, in russia, in europe, in cuba, in mexico, in middle east and even in china also.. you can see thses whose will be turn in war III against each other in the end which you have rumor NOW from these.. who will destory egpyt during world war III in about 2000 year but i dont know when! some old world will be death into new world and earth there no cities no hate , no curse and etc.....Because the spirits of Egpytians came out of Egypt into over the all world who took over the sensilbe spiritual Egyptian.. Also American and some others want black hebrew back to enslaves.. i am actually know it is highly impossbile for black hebrew slaves back to back 1619 enslave because white called himself jew who deceive the whole world. white who make their own false prophet to other nations who worshipped him called the White gentile world as Hilter-Pharaoh king in amercian.. the East-Kings(nations,i.e.,china, russia, middle east, some african memebers of muslims, cuba, mexico)of the earth(the world) will gather together one mind make war against this america and against his american-armies with daugerous nucler bombs. becuase these nations already been working among them who had one mind with the Beast(white America). these will hate and destory this whore america as same old whore Egyptia as old spirit in this America. i believed that you had heard that all nations just begin to anti-american and these nations will work to get together one mind with other beast (russia-muslims). some of you will be dead with them. some of Black hebrew people still be survive in american after war-end. because white try to save you to live here in american and white stolen our own idenifty jew and our own biblical law which moses who gave us for only our! that why white did punished you because you did not obey the bible. but you dont understand what white said... and white did bring you out of east and africa. white knew it that there many nuclers to would be war to destory you but he saved you and your life! don't believe me but believe in the king james bible said so! that why the black jews given in the hand of the Gentile white rule over world for his propose! you will get new king to rule over the new world after all the white amercian and east kings of earth will dead who will not rule after you no more. amen! the bible were fulfilled!

You are foolly today
USA - Monday, June 07, 1999 at 04:00:31 (EDT)


OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS,.... Guess what?? you forget or not remebered in your past life was to present day. You never have your spiritual minded flashing back to the old days of the first reincarnation... the first Hebrew that the real Powerful spirit in the world, who talked about his own thoughts believed in the reincarnation minded of the old days in present day. as the Egyptians does believe a same in reincarnation of past to present day.. all white people dont want you find out about it.. for example, the God of the Hebrews were born again in my carnal mind Flashed back to the old days of the first resurrection in the present day to seeing this modern there is not new thing. i aware that this is old thing. you must believe first physcial hierogyphics connect with spiritual hierogyphics through the old Hebrew scripures. Jesus,servant the prophet, i am an Hewbrew reincarnation and eternal life as i am the morning and eveing star forever. the Hebrew scriptures talking about specific the black who still alive today in america, you should recognize in your spirit had been told you to have to read bible of king james version... for example moses were real Hebrew in Egypt for 430 years. they vanished their Hebrew tongues into used the Egyptian tougues, because they dwelled in egypt for 430 many years. i believed that moses was used to egyptian tongue and egytian language in the book called the Hebrew scriptures. but moses still had his the Spirit of the Hebrews in Him who speak to himself. that why the Hebrew Spirit use on the Egyptian as same Hebrew Spirit use on the English. i know that you thought the bible were white peoples who wrote it into version.. but for example, black amercian who write the book as english language. which one book is most characteristic black or white?? becuz he was wrote english language. However, i have many thing to tell you but i hope you will be realize about this to you... i aware that you have Spiritual Hebrew in you.

negroid Indian
USA - Sunday, June 06, 1999 at 23:40:32 (EDT)


Greetings Bro. Menes, how is the project coming along? You have my support and please excuse my lack of networking, we all must unite. We are in full swing in our project of empowerment for the African community of Shreveport, Louisiana. Just wanted to greet you as a brother should. Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Sunday, June 06, 1999 at 16:44:18 (EDT)


The webpage concerning African spirituality and origin of western religion has been changed to http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/index.html/ You can then go to African Philosophy and Spirituality. Will someone post a response to Delukufa's question concerning the racial remarks on black people. Hotep

Menes <DaNo1Menes@aol.com>
USA - Sunday, June 06, 1999 at 15:49:38 (EDT)


Some have reasons to disagree but we can refrain from calling some one a lie just because they might not express the same beliefs as you regarding a situation. No one here is trying to anything other than introduce new findings and evidence which could be beneficial to Africans and people of African descent. If your beliefs conflict with empowering news for the Black populace, then it is you, who visit this black empowering website, who must be called into question. We are African people, we have a varied history and culture, and it would be wise to embrace every avenue of it and every expression our people exhibit as unique to ourselves. We must instill love and respect, instead of name-calling and personal attacks, this is anti-liberationary and thus, anti-Black. Medase pii.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Saturday, June 05, 1999 at 14:58:05 (EDT)


To the one who is calling me a liar in "capital" letters, had you read my post you would have seen the source, which was from a Nigerian publication. I was merely posting the article to share and stimulate critical thinking - I am not the author by any means. In fact, I have never even been to Nigeria or Ethiopia to do any research on this issue.

Karen C. Aboiralor@aol.com <Kcamm23063>
Age: ?, Oakland, CA USA - Saturday, June 05, 1999 at 06:02:50 (EDT)


KAREN C.,. I AM THE REAL HEBREW SERVANT,THE SON OF ISRAEL I PROUD DESCENDANTS OF MY FOREFATHER, FATHERS BLACK HEBREW SLAVES GENERATION TO GENERATION FORVER! I AM NOT CAME FROM AFRICAN OR HAMITES.. I AM TRULY A SEMITIC, I AM THE SEED OF LINEAGE FROM SHEM OVER ALL THE WORLD... I DONT WANT TO BE QURRAL WITH YOU ALL... I AWAEW THAT GOD SPOKE TO MOSES IN EGYPT, NOT EUROPE. HOWEVER I BETTER LET YOU GO AND YOU BELIEVED IN EUROPEAN WHITE SCHOLARS WHO HAD BEEN TOLD YOU. SATAN SPOKE TO WHITE IN EUROPE RATHER THAN EGYPT AND BIBLE WRITTEN RECORDED. YOUR LIFE WILL NEVER SET FREE FOREVER.. I AM 100% SURE THERE ARE STILL THE SIGN AND THE WONDER OF PLAGUE CURSED ON YOU AND ON YOUR CHIDLREN FOREVER!!!! WITHOUT YOU I WOULD NEVER HAPPENED, ALLELUIA, AMEN!!! GOOD LUCK FOR ALL... OUR TRIBE OF JUDAH GOING TO BE GLORY TO THE GENTILE WORLD FOREVER... AMEN..

Biblical Ishmaelites
world Hebrews, Ca USA - Friday, June 04, 1999 at 22:31:14 (EDT)


I just left a white site that purports to "disprove" the "Black supremacists" lies of a black ancient Egypt. It claims that not only was Narmer (Menes) white, but that all the ancient rulers up unti Ramses were white and dominated the civilization. This is, of course, an absurd "dark-skinned white man" theory they have concocted! What I found most interesting were two points. The first, the "red" hair of some of the rulers is easily explained. One need only look at today's Ethiopians where you will find many sharp-nosed, thin-lipped, red-haired Africans! The other is a bit more troubling in that I do not personally have the answer although I know that one does exist. They made reference to the "racial writings" of some of the rulers where such comments as " . . . where no Black shall pass . . .", and ". . . vile Blacks . . ." were shown. They pointed to the fact that King Tut, I believe, had a pair of sandals in his tomb on which were portrayed a bound Black and a bound Semite. The inference being that, as the King walked, he "crushed" the enemies of the state beneath his feet. They make further references to the "white" Queen Nefetiti, based of course on the alabaster bust, and about Kharfe and the Sphinx. I ask those egyptologists out there in the ether to email me, or simply post an explanation of the so-called "racial writings" of the Ancients. Do they really exist? If so, explain their derogatory references to Blacks in a Black civilization. While I understand that even today, Africans of different, or similar hues still bear grudges, I would hope for a more scholarly explanation. That being said, I truly enjoy this site, find it most informative, and necessary, and pray that God grants you the resources and wherewithal to continue to improve and produce this excellent work. Hotep!

Delukufa <Taseti76@usa.net>
Age: 49, Capitol Hgts., MD USA - Friday, June 04, 1999 at 22:24:57 (EDT)


KAREN C.,........ YOU ARE BIG LIE!!! THE BIBLE MENTIONED ABOUT QUEEN OF SHEBA MARRIED SOLOMON?.. IT IS NOT TRUE! THESE NEVER MENTIONED IN HEBREW SCRIPTURES OR IT DID NOT DESCRIBED ABOUT BETWEEN SHEBA AND SOLOMON THAT WERE MARRIED AND THEIR SON MENELIK REIGN OVER JUDAH AND ISRAEL. HE NEVER REIGNED OVER THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL. BECUZ THESE NAMES IS NOTHING RECORDED IN THE BIBLE TOLD ME.. YOU ARE A TOTALLY BIG LIAR!..BUT SHE JUST GAVE HIM GOLDS AND SILVERS. AND I AGREE WITH THE BLACK JEWS TO SAID ABOUT SOLOMON MARRIED PHARAOH'S DAUGTHER AND THE EGYPTIAN WOMAN,SHE BORN HER SON TO SOLOMON, HE WAS CALLED REHOBOAM THE SON OF SOLOMON WHO REIGNED OVER JUDAH AND ISRAEL AFTER HIS FATHER DIED. THE BIBLE IS SO PURE WRTTIEN! I BELIEVED THAT YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BIBLE AND YOU WON'T BELIEVE THAT HEBREW WERE BLACK RACE AS SAME AS EGYPTIAN RACE. EXPECT YOU FOLLOW OTER SIDE WHO TOLD YOU.. YOU NEVER GO THERE AS YOUR WITNESS.. BUT BIBLE HAD ALREADY WITNESS TO HAVE BEEN TOLD YOU.. WOULD NATIONALLY YOU CAME FROM?? DID YOU FIND YOUR TRIBE OF ANCESTORY IN AFRICA?? WHY YOU ARE HERE IN AMERICA?? I BELIEVED THAT YOU WERE DESCENDANTS OF BLACK HEBREW SLAVES BROUGHT OUT FROM EGYPT TO AMERICA AS ENSLAVE FOR WHITES... IF THIS ISN'T ENOUGH PROOF AS TO SAY ABOUT SOLOMON AND COLOR OF HEBREW, THEN YOU ARE TOTAL TRULY IN A STATE OF DENIAL... I AM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH ALL BLACK FAMILY IN AMERICA

Biblical Ishmaelites
world Hebrews, Ca USA - Friday, June 04, 1999 at 22:05:39 (EDT)


'Queen of Sheba' wall is no fake - Scientists in Nigeria have authenticated an ancient wall near Lagos, but are playing down the possibility that it marked the boundary of the kingdom of the legendary Queen of Sheba. A team of Nigerian and British archaeologists say the wall, which could be more than 1,000 years old, is genuine and not a modern construction. Nigerian expert Levi Izuakor confirmed the wall was evidence of a great ancient city, but that little more than that could be said about its origins at this time. The find had prompted suggestions that the centre of one of Africa's greatest kingdoms - and the final resting place of the Queen of Sheba - had been discovered. But experts say the dating of the wall could eventually place its construction many hundreds of years after the lifetime of the Old Testament figure. The wall lies hidden in the Nigerian rainforest at a site called Eredo, just a few hour's drive from the capital, Lagos. A team from Bournemouth University, working with British archaeologist Dr Patrick Darling, recently completed a preliminary survey of the Eredo earthworks. They consist of a wall and ditch measuring 70ft (20 metres) high in places and approximately 100 miles (150km) long. While not approaching the complexity of a project like the pyramids in Egypt, the builders would have shifted an estimated 3.5 million cubic metres of earth during construction of the ramparts. This is one million cubic metres more than the amount of rock and earth used in the Great Pyramid at Giza. Archaeologists believe it marks out what is believed to be the boundary of the Ijebu kingdom, ruled by the 'Awujale' spiritual leader. The British eventually broke the Ijebu trade monopoly, leading to the decline of the kingdom. However, the traditional position of Awujale still exists in the modern day town of Ijebu-Ode. Dr Darling says the Eredo site is a particularly exciting discovery because it provides the "earliest proof of a kingdom founded in the African rainforest". People living nearby the Eredo monuments link the area to Bilikisu Sungbo, another name for Sheba, says Dr Darling. Local tradition speaks of a great queen building a vast monument of remembrance, and there is an annual pilgrimage to what is believed to be her grave. But scholars trace the legend of the Queen of Sheba to an Old Testament story, describing how the queen married Solomon and their son began a dynasty of rulers in Ethiopia. Estimates suggest the Old Testament queen would have reigned in the 10th century BC - some 2,000 years before the Eredo wall is believed to have been built. Dr Darling says the beliefs of the locals cannot be discounted. "I don't want to overplay the Sheba theory, but ... the local people believe it and that's what is important." He believes that, whatever the case, Eredo could become Nigeria's first world heritage site, joining monuments like Stonehenge in the UK and the pyramids of Egypt. /COPYRIGHT (1999) Nigeria News Network / WEBSITE: http://www.NigeriaNews.net

Karen C. Aboiralor <Kcamm23063@aol.com>
Age: ?, Oakland, CA USA - Friday, June 04, 1999 at 02:53:04 (EDT)


Hi brothers and sisters ethipoians were not came from linage of Israel. becuz they mention that cush's children.. there is big conflict in the bible record. that is obviously they werent enslaved to america .. and ethiopian mentioned that menelik were lineage from solomon his father.. but menekil's name were not mention recorded in the bible, they are deceive you all. Nevertheless, let me tell you that the King solomon was married Pharaoh the king of Egypt's daughter and she born him his son named Rehoboam and Rehoboam the son of solomon was reigned in the tribe of Judah (near where Egypt local) and even Israel... all facts about him in reocrd.. Rehoboam was black and his mother the Egyptian was Black (1 kings 3:1 and 1 kings 9:16)! is not that clearly to you ?? and Ishmael was black also, he was married egyptian(black woman)(Genesis 21: 9, 21). the last thing is Judah married canaanite woman and simoen married canaanite woman. but mostly the bible mention about the house of Judah through david and jesus. Now from there are you all Israelites in america . becuz you carried the cross called Tree of life for jesus forever! God never destory your heritage and ancestory from shem. becuz his seed/ blood in your flesh forever!!! hey eveyone, why white wont allowed you to read in during slave's time ?? finally you can read the bible now and hear about slave alots .. yes true it mentioned about it in bible. but you are ingore the bible truth.. and you try to keep truth hidden from black americans where would your nationaly come from ?? could ye tell me why the white brought you black slaves here in amercia?? do you think that white are dumb and just get you for use you slave for white?? how did white know about slaves trade before they bought the hebrew slave in africa who sold it to them.... that is sad part of all who now know it in bible.....this white america still cursed on you for years... the bible is truth!

the black jews
USA - Tuesday, June 01, 1999 at 05:45:30 (EDT)


Hello: To Brother Mack and Black and all of those that have made a contribution to the Board. This is a very interesting web site, we are most grateful that the Internet has allowed us an opportunity to explore the many truths and untruths about the history of Black people throughout the Diaspora. May I please petition the participtants of this board for a point of information on the follolwing: 1.How can one explain the time differnce in the origin of man in Africa and the Creation as recorded in the Old Testament? 2. What happened to the original man? 3. What happened to religion of the original man? 4. If the Black man first appeared in Africa, where is the Garden of Eden? 5. What is the kinship? of Jews of the Old Testament and Black people? 6. Is Judiasm older than what most people think? 7. Did the belief in one God come from the people that fled Egypt or the Egyptians? 8. Does the so-called curse of Ham really mean that Black people are cursed? Peace, C. Patton

Carl A. Patton <capzpsyche@aol.com>
Age: 53, Murfreesboro, TN USA - Monday, May 31, 1999 at 21:33:55 (EDT)


First I'd like to say let us work to unite our people against Yurugu. Second, great job Mr. Clegg. Lastly, this concerns spirituality. For those of us who are Jews,Christians, or Muslim, I have no quarel against you in fact I have read on these religions. In order to truly make a decision we have to be well informed. I urge you to read about the African origins of your religion. Do not simply ignore this but go and find out. If you agree then you are better off and if not, your faith will have gotten stronger. Here is a website that you can look this up: http://www.swt.edu/studentorg/kammaasi/guidepg.html You can look up Origins of Western as well as Eastern religions. And the meaning of the Kemetic faith. If you agree you can become a member of The Church of Kemet; to find out more about the church of Kemet the webpage is- http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/2045. Hotep

Mack aka Manusya aka Aha <DaNo1Menes@aol.com>
Age: 19, Everywhere, USA - Monday, May 31, 1999 at 13:24:06 (EDT)


First I'd like to say let us work to unite our people against Yurugu. Second, great job Mr. Clegg. Lastly, this concerns spirituality. For those of us who are Jews,Christians, or Muslim, I have no quarel against you in fact I have read on these religions. In order to truly make a decision we have to be well informed. I urge you to read about the African origins of your religion. Do not simply ignore this but go and find out. If you agree then you are better off and if not, your faith will have gotten stronger. Here is a website that you can look this up: http:swt.edu/studentorg/kammaasi/guidepg.html You can look up Origins of Western as well as Eastern religions. And the meaning of the Kemetic faith. If you agree you can become a member of The Church of Kemet; to find out more about the church of Kemet the webpage is- http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/2045 Hotep

Mack aka Manusya aka Aha <DaNo1Menes@aol.com>
Age: 19, Everywhere, USA - Monday, May 31, 1999 at 13:21:02 (EDT)


FYI: Archaeologists find clues to Queen of Sheba in Nigeria, Find May Rival Egypt's Pyramids http://www.NigeriaNews.net/cgi-local/getNewsArticle.cgi?id= BRITISH scientists have unearthed in Nigeria's rain forest a suspected centre of one of Africa's greatest kingdoms and possible burial place of the legendary Queen of Sheba - pushing the country to the fore of ancient history. Hidden in the forest of the old Ijebu Kingdom, a few hours drive from Lagos, are the Eredo earthworks reputedly larger than the famous great pyramids of Egypt. The team of scientists from Bournemouth University, working with archaeologist Dr. Patrick Darling, have concluded a preliminary survey of the earthworks, comprising a wall and ditch measuring 14 metres high and about 160 kilometres long. Builders of the earthworks had shifted an estimated 3.5m cubic metres of earth to build the ramparts - one million cubic metres more than the amount of rock and earth which went into building the Greta Pyramid of Cheops in Egypt. The ramparts marked out what is believed to be the boundary of the original Ijebu Kingdom ruled by the Awujale. Civil wars and the arrival of the British eventually broke the kingdom's centuries-old Lagos lagoon trade monopoly. Darling described the Eredo site as a breathtaking find, with many of its remains relatively intact, although overgrown by the rain forest. "We are not linking what we found to a city, but to a vast kingdom boundary rampart," he told the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). The archaeologist added: "The vertical sided ditches go around the area for 100miles (160km), and it is more than 1,000 years old. That makes it the earliest proof of a kingdom founded in the African rain forest." But more intriguing still is the suggested link to the Queen of Sheba, one of the world's oldest love stories. According to the Biblical Old Testament, the Queen, ruler of Saba, sent a camel train of gold and ivory to King Solomon. The king wooed and married the queen after she became overwhelmed by the splendour of his palace, and their son began a dynasty of rulers in Ethiopia. The Bible dates the queen's reign to the 10th century BC, and modern scholars have peculated that a link between Judea and an ancient African queen led to the emergence of Judaism in Ethiopia. In a tale closely linked to that in the Bible, the Koran describes the Queen as a sun worshipper based in the Arabian peninsula, who was converted to Islam. Arabian legend names the queen "Bilqis," and links her to the incense trade which was then asource of great regional power. But 500-year-old Portuguese documents hint at the power of an Ijebu Kingdom, and build the case for Sheba being on the other side of the continent. Darling, the archaeologist, said local people around the Eredo monuments link the area to Bilikisu Sungbo, another name for Sheba. Local tradition speaks of a great queen building a vast monument of remembrance, and there is a yearly pilgrimage to what is believed to be her grave. The region's long history of gold and ivory trade and the cultural importance of eunuchs linked to royal households further support the Sheba link. "I don't want to overplay the Sheba theory but it cannot be discounted," Darling said. He added: "The local people believe it, and that's what is important. Hundreds or thousands of pilgrims come to this area every year to honour what could be her grave, a magical shrine grove under tall trees." She is very much a real figure to local people. She is associated with the earlier figure of Bilikisu Sungbo, but I think the traditional figure was a powerful matriarch. The most cogent argument against it at the moment is the dating." Darling, a member of the African Legacy educational organisation which is working with the Nigerian government, said that Eredo could become Nigeria's first world heritage site, joining monuments such as Stonehenge in the United Kingdoms, and the Pyramids of Egypt. According to him, Eredo has remained hidden to the outside world because of the lack of scientific and archaeological research in West Africa." What is exciting about this for me is that we are beginning to bring out the tremendous political and cultural achievements of black Africa. But there is a lot more work that we can do in the region," he said. Some pictures of the finds are on the BBC Africa website. To get to it, click on the BBC Africa link in the 'Other News Sites' section on the left menu.

Karen C. Aboiralor <KCAMM23063@AOL.COM>
Age: ?, Oakland, CA USA - Monday, May 31, 1999 at 06:36:28 (EDT)


HI, THEBANG,..... WHEN YOU MENTIONED THAT " WHY THEY(WHITE) HATE US".. AHHH OH PLEASE, YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAT.. BECUZ WHEN THE EUROPEANS READ THE BIBLE, IT WAS ABOUT BLACK HISTORY AND WISDOMS WHICH GOD CHOESN THE BLACK HEBREWS SLAVES IN OUR GLORIOUS NAME OF ISRARL. GOD DIDN'T CHOSE WHITE. THAT THEY ARE VERY JEALIOUS AFTER US.. ALSO THEY WERE ATTRACTED THAT IS " SLAVE " THEY WERE BLACK GOLD OF SLAVES IN THEIR MIND OF WHITE-PEOPLES TO TAKEN ALL BLACK HEBREW SLAVES OUT OF EGYPT(AFRICA) TO ENGLAND AND AMERCIA-WHITE PEOPLE. THAT'S WHY OUR GIVEN TO WHITE'S GLORIOUS KINGDOMS OVER ALL THE WORLD AGAINST US TODAY ... MAY I ASK YOU SOME QUESTION.. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT DAVID WAS LINAGE FROM JUDAH ? JUDAH'S CHILDREN WERE BLACKS ??... EGYPTIAN / ETHIOPIAN MEANS WHICH IS AFRICAN OR HAMITE AS WELL AS HEBREW MEANS WHICH IS NEGROID OR SHEMITE.. THE BIBLE TOLD ME THAT ISHAMELITE WERE BLACK AS OUR SKIN TODAY. HOWEVER THEY ARE WHITE MIXED OTHER SKINS, THEY WERE NOT A REAL ORIGINAL ISHMAEL'S CHILDREN.. THEY WERE ACTUALLY CAME FROM INDIA AND IRAN FAMILY AND NON-JEWS ACTUALLY CAME FROM RUSSIAN. THEY CAME IN MY FALSE NAME WHICH CLAIM THEY ARE JEWS AND OTHER CLAMED THAT THEY ARE ISHMAELITES.. THEY ARE ACTUALLY DECEVIE TO YOU TODAY ... THE BIBLE IS MOST IMPORTANT KEY TELLING YOU HIS SCRIPTURE OF TRUTH ABOUT BLACK JUDAH HISTORY ! TODAY , WHITE PEOPLE SCHOLAR AND MANSCRIPT HAS BEEN CHANGE WORDS IN BIBLE NOW.... I CAME TO WARN YOU ... LOOK IN BOOK OF MATTHEW 10:4, SAY, "SIMON THE CANNANITE" / MARK 15:21 AND LUKE 23:26 SIMON A CYRENIAN (WHICH IS A CANAANITE) WHERE IT CAME FROM WHOM ? COULD YOU TELL ME WHERE IT CAME FROM ?? A BLACK HEBREW WHICH IS ONLY SYMBOL " A CANAANITE " AS AN EGYPTIAN. BUT BLACK HEBREWS CAME LINEAGE FROM ABRAHAM THE SON OF SHEM.. YOU ALL AMERCAN BLACK ARE NOT ORIGINAL CAME FROM AFRICANS BUT CAME FROM SEMITCS (ASIATICS). THAT WHY THE EUROPEAN AND EAST INDIANS REMOVED ALL BLACK HEBREWS FROM THE LAND OF CANAAN-ARABIAN INTO SPREAD WORLD TODAY, HOWEVER EUROPANS AND EAST IRAN, EAST INDIAN ENED UP TO LIVE AMONG OUR LANDS!!! AMEN.. DONT BELIEVE ME BUT EXPECT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE OF KING JAMES VERSON TELL YOU ABOUT THIS !

the BLACK JEWS
USA - Sunday, May 30, 1999 at 17:52:45 (EDT)


all people who believe in racial supremacy will reject the blackness of ancient egypt, because their very own supremacy theories would then render them inferior. therefore they must lie, ad infinitum, to themselves and others in order to maintain their false sense of superiority. only black people, and non-supremacists, can truly bring forth the truth on this urgent matter. we must continue to tell every brutha and sista that we meet about our true heritage. keepin' the faith.

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Saturday, May 29, 1999 at 15:12:56 (EDT)


I would like to say that i enjoy Maat newsletter and commend the staff for good work. I find it hard to believe in during these times that so called scholars would argue against the concrete evidence that found by our (black)historians.I am sick and tired of white people and house negroes ect. of tampering with rich history. keep up the good work of spreading word about Diop and Dr. Ben work. peace Kemites!!!

bro. ron <rcg and seg @ aol .com>
Age: 28, wichita, ks USA - Friday, May 28, 1999 at 05:04:23 (EDT)


This is a very interesting sight and it will help my children as well as myself to research our-story and not his-story. Our-story is a mystery which is my-story.

Nanya Amur El <sulaymaa@accucomm.net>
Age: 36, Milledgeville, Ga USA - Thursday, May 27, 1999 at 12:04:43 (EDT)


Curious: One can find information concerning the proteins in various books, especially those written for biology and physiology classes. I must warn you, you must filter out the B/S. No, hair texture is not achieved by eating, the Creator made us that way. Africa has a humid climate, immensely in some areas, and the tightly coiled hair provides cooling for the head. Odabo.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 14:29:05 (EDT)


About hair texture, I've been wondering the same thing. White people, if you will, are the only group of people that are significantly melanin deficient. On the other hand, African people of the diaspora are the only ones with tightly coiled hair. Both groups are at the extremes. Which brings me to the following questions. What are the proteins? Are they acquired by eating? Where can I find this information.

Curious
Age: 27, USA - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 13:43:59 (EDT)


on the 14th day of march i wrote saying that i believe that white people are alien, that is, EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL... can you blame me? considering their features and the following is a response to a brother called Mack who asked that if this is so then why come their genes can be traced back to africa. i will not try to come across to anyone as being well educated in issues of black egypt and afrocentrism...frankly i'm not. i try to get as much data as i can and try to, as much as is humanly possible, be as objective as i can. problem with that is who do you believe? these are potentially earth shattering issues and the last thing we need is to find that most of what we've been hearing was a mistake, i think that would set us back another 500 years. with this in mind, i tend to depend a lot on what i SEE, and what i see is white man looking like alien...physically. i don't get much sleep over this issue and i wish someone would investigate it with me. i don't know much about genes being traced back to africans. to me that means that we were once one people. i don't know, but to me that's hard for me to digest that. i've heard it being suggested that because of climatic variations skin colours are what they are now...different. but would that also account for the diferent behaviours? eg.1. white people only give a damm about the environment because they would die if they didn't...no one else thinks that way.eg.2 who else would have a hotel for dogs? not that i don't like dogs but hell, don't you think that's a bit over board? espicially with the homelessness, etc. i am led to believe that in the bible there is an implication that when adam and eve existed a race of people outside the so-called garden of eden also existed. call me dumb but i WONDER about these things you know, and i don't sleep...what if its true? what does it mean? why do white people hate us? why do they say aids comes from africa? why do they test biological weapons on africans? why do we let them? why do men urinate on toilet seats instead of in the actual toilet? much love

thabang <thabang@hotmail.com>
Age: 28, birmingham, england - Wednesday, May 19, 1999 at 11:54:34 (EDT)


Greetings: Straight hair is a phenomena caused by the lack of viable proteins. In hair that was less protein count, the strands will become more straight. Hair with high protein count exhibit what is called "peppercorn hair" or hair so tightly coiled it grows in tuffs (e.g. San Bushmen or Khoikhoi of Southern Africa). Hoped some answered your question.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Tuesday, May 18, 1999 at 12:01:34 (EDT)


Would someone please expand on the cause of development of "straight hair".

Yellek <yellek@mail.com>
Age: 27, USA - Tuesday, May 18, 1999 at 08:04:58 (EDT)


Some important questions to answer in reference to, as some call Gods, and I choose to call Elohim(The Mighty Ones), are: 1) Who, or what created the universe? 2) What is the nature of man/woman? 3) What is, and what was the purpose of, and for humanity? 4) What is our hope? 5) What is ultimate reality...what is right...how do you receive communion with your God/Gods? 6) What is the nature of your God/Gods? 7) How was, how is, or how will humanity be saved? PEACE! JAWANZA

Jawanza
- Sunday, May 16, 1999 at 14:52:09 (EDT)


VERY IMPORTANT ALL BELIVERS OF THE BIBLE AND THOSE WHO FEEL THIS WEBSITE IS RACIST-(LAST SENTENCES)!!! First of all I want to thank Maat writers for it's wonderful work. Keep it up baby I love this page. I got it as a link to my website which is www.pitt.edu/~mpast7 This is for knowledgeable bible believers. IF you look at all religions you will see that they have the same theme. You will see that other religions have accounts of the flood and explain it their own way. Some religions say that there are many Gods others say that there is one. Those that say that there is one say that they have subordinate like the angels or and the holy ghost and the son. Those that maintain that there are many say that there is one that is the ruler and creator.What does this mean?Someone wrote in the guestbook that it doesn't matter what name you have for your god. I believe that this is correct because all people wrote of God in the way that made since to them but they were all writting of the same thing.Black (of Blackjews) said that people from Nigeria and Ivory coast were jews. If this is so then why is it that when they were brought to the Americas they had to be told of the bible; they knew nothing of Abraham. They practiced Yoruba and Voodoo.In addition, as it says in the guestbook,"Virtually all West African people trace their ancestry to the northeast and ultimately to the Nile Valley. A number of Black scholars have revealed evidence of the ancient migration trail from the Nile across the continent to West Africa and the Atlantic Ocean." Furthermore, why is it that you believe in the bible. It too was written by a man-Moses. A man who was expelled from Kemet(Egypt). I think black jews are afraid to let go of the religion because it's all that they've been taught and for fear of punishment from their dictator god who doesn't allow no one to think any other way or they will be punished. However, you realize something is wrong with the religion and so you blackanize it. Why is it that you don't believe in Buddhaism or Greek mythology? It too was written by a man. What makes the bible so much better? Every religion was started by a man. There is no proof other than your faith to say that God was with Moses when he wrote the bible and not with no other religion. Your faith only comes from the fact that this is what was taught to you all your life, and the fact that Europeans have so exulted the bible along with all their other beliefs.It is a hard step to totally drop what one was taught was true all their lives but even if you won't drop the bible you must understand that it still is left to interpretations.Black says that the Hamites(Africans) were cursed but in this quote by Darlene Colbert this is not true- "I believe that there was a curse on Canaan and Cannaan was the Youngest son of Noah convinced after the flood. But Canaan was also the name of the grandson also so there was two a youngest son and a grandson. Shem,Japheth and Ham and the Grandson of Ham were black but the youngest son dispced the hamitic canaanites and spread all over the world and thus are known today as the white man...they were the ones without Noah's blessing....God does not lie it was the youngest son of Noah. If it was Ham's son it would have said he cursed Ham's son. But the Word says it he knew what his youngest son did to him." Africans lost their kingdom because they were divided into tribes instead of uniting. We need to learn from our mistakes and stop dividing black Americans from Africans. Uniting, regardless of personal belief is the key to success.This is why I don't care that you believe in the bible I feel that we all need to unite cause we have a common goal of eliminating white supremacy. Africans were the first people, that is a fact, not a belief written by a man. They had the first civilization;therefore, in picking my religion I pick African because it was the first interpratation of what others would later see.Service to such religion as Christianity and Islams says that Europeans and Persians were correct in saying that we were primitive for our belief in God. Service to such religions is dishonor to your ancestors who were raped and killed because they fought for their religion. We should go back to our religion as a statement that says black people are not inferior. Our healing power was great(read about the spiritual healer in Brazil on this page) but it may have only been shared by just a few and it may have been lost when Persians came to kill us.Someone wrote that if there was no racism there would be no need for this webpage.Racism does exist. When Europeans invaded Africa and then America and China, Africans and American Indians excepted them. They brought in racism because of their greed which they term as "superior" ways and understanding. They destroyed the balance that was maintained by these decendent of the black race. Now they are effectively destroying the earth. There are steps to everything that must be done.Without the freedom fighters that came before we wouldn't be able to do what we are doing right now.Before we can eliminate racism we must empowering the people with knowledge or they will continue to believe that the way that it is today is the way it has to be.Why don't we just teach unity now? Without blacks finding pride in their ancestry and culture they will continue to embrace that of another race and African culture, which has literally been left out of education will be erased. That shouldnn't be allowed considering African culture is the culture of all people. For Paul: White people did not evolve from black people. If that was the case black people would be turning black. The lack of sun cause white people to lose their melanin and lack of fruit from the ground made you lose the vitamin that makes black people's hair wooly. You are not better, you are lacking of what we have. Besides you can't be better than God.

Mack aka Menes aka Narmer <DaNo1Menes@aol.com>
Age: 19, Everywhere , USA - Friday, May 14, 1999 at 19:34:38 (EDT)


VERY IMPORTANT ALL BELIVERS OF THE BIBLE AND THOSE WHO FEEL THIS WEBSITE IS RACIST-(LAST SENTENCES)!!! First of all I want to thank Maat writers for it's wonderful work. Keep it up baby I love this page. I got it as a link to my website which is www.pitt.edu/~mpast7 This is for knowledgeable bible believers. IF you look at all religions you will see that they have the same theme. You will see that other religions have accounts of the flood and explain it their own way. Some religions say that there are many Gods others say that there is one. Those that say that there is one say that they have subordinate like the angels or and the holy ghost and the son. Those that maintain that there are many say that there is one that is the ruler and creator.What does this mean?Someone wrote in the guestbook that it doesn't matter what name you have for your god. I believe that this is correct because all people wrote of God in the way that made since to them but they were all writting of the same thing.Black (of Blackjews) said that people from Nigeria and Ivory coast were jews. If this is so then why is it that when they were brought to the Americas they had to be told of the bible; they knew nothing of Abraham. They practiced Yoruba and Voodoo.In addition, as it says in the guestbook,"Virtually all West African people trace their ancestry to the northeast and ultimately to the Nile Valley. A number of Black scholars have revealed evidence of the ancient migration trail from the Nile across the continent to West Africa and the Atlantic Ocean." Furthermore, why is it that you believe in the bible. It too was written by a man-Moses. A man who was expelled from Kemet(Egypt). I think black jews are afraid to let go of the religion because it's all that they've been taught and for fear of punishment from their dictator god who doesn't allow no one to think any other way or they will be punished. However, you realize something is wrong with the religion and so you blackanize it. Why is it that you don't believe in Buddhaism? It too was written by a man. What makes the bible so much better? Every religion was started by a man. There is no proof other than your faith to say that God was with Moses when he wrote the bible and not with no other religion. Your faith only comes from the fact that this is what was taught to you all your life, and the fact that Europeans have so exulted the bible along with all their other beliefs.It is a hard step to totally drop what one was taught was true all their lives but even if you won't drop the bible you must understand that it still is left to interpretations.Black says that the Hamites(Africans) were cursed but in this quote by Darlene Colbert this is not true- "I believe that there was a curse on Canaan and Cannaan was the Youngest son of Noah convinced after the flood. But Canaan was also the name of the grandson also so there was two a youngest son and a grandson. Shem,Japheth and Ham and the Grandson of Ham were black but the youngest son dispced the hamitic canaanites and spread all over the world and thus are known today as the white man...they were the ones without Noah's blessing....God does not lie it was the youngest son of Noah. If it was Ham's son it would have said he cursed Ham's son. But the Word says it he knew what his youngest son did to him." Africans lost their kingdom because they were divided into tribes instead of uniting. We need to learn from our mistakes and stop dividing black Americans from Africans. Uniting, regardless of personal belief is the key to success.This is why I don't care that you believe in the bible I feel that we all need to unite cause we have a common goal of eliminating white supremacy. Africans were the first people, that is a fact, not a belief written by a man. They had the first civilization;therefore, in picking my religion I pick African because it was the first interpratation of what others would later see.Service to such religion says that Europeans and Persians were correct in saying that we were primitive for our belief in God. We should go back to our religion as a statement that says black people are not inferior.Someone wrote that if there was no racism there would be no need for this webpage.Racism does exist. When Europeans invaded Africa and then America and China, Africans and American Indians excepted them. They brought in racism because of their greed which they term as "superior" ways and understanding. They destroyed the balance that was maintained by these decendent of the black race. Now they are effectively destroying the earth. There are steps to everything that must be done.Without the freedom fighters that came before we wouldn't be able to do what we are doing right now.Before we can eliminate racism we must empowering the people with knowledge or they will continue to believe that the way that it is today is the way it has to be.Why don't we just teach unity now? Without blacks finding pride in their ancestry and culture they will continue to embrace that of another race and African culture, which has literally been left out of education will be erased. That shouldnn't be allowed considering African culture is the culture of all people. For Paul: White people did not evolve from black people. If that was the case black people would be turning black. The lack of sun cause white people to lose their melanin and lack of fruit from the ground made you lose the vitamin that makes black people's hair wooly. You are not better, you are lacking of what we have. Besides you can't be better than God.

Mack aka Menes aka Narmer <DaNo1Menes@aol.com>
Age: 19, Everywhere , USA - Friday, May 14, 1999 at 19:25:25 (EDT)


hello my name is black and I've read thoroughly trough your sight and you bring up a lot of valid points that egypt in the bible was one of the sons of ham.the youngest son. it says in the living insights bible gen.9:28 that the hamites populated east, north, and south africa and egypt. in the revised kings james bible dictionary it says that all of todays modern african races are descendents of hamitic tribes.all of this means that ham's descendents were africans including egypt,canaan,and ethiopia(cushites).in gen.9:22-28,it says that canaan was cursed by noah because ham, his son saw his father's nakedness. yes eyptians,and all africans are desendents the ancient egyptians ,cushites,canaanites and all other hamitic groups but if you believe in the bible if your black american that your part of a nation thats cursed.also, ham is not a decendent of shem and from him came abraham,israel and the 12 tribes of israel (israelites,jew,.hebrews).that means that black americans that are christians are not goods chosen people because they are not part of the nation of israel.they are hamites,descendents of ham and canaan (south africans) are cursed. thats all lie. in song of solomon 1:6 an israelite women was describing herself and she said she was "black, black as the tent's of kedar.do not stare at because iam black and the sun has looked at me." That proves that the israelites were black not white not red but black. canaan or palestine "the promise land" consists of west and south africa. when abraham came in into canaan, he found people living there and named the land after them.the land of canaan.the israelites lived inthe western coast of africa (the ivory cost),nigeria and other western african countries. when the europeans came to africa to get slaves they took them from nigeria and the west cost because it was so wealthy in minerals and natural resourse. they africans (hamites) established a trade called the african american slave trade because the africans were trading with the americans. the israelites along the ivory coast were enslaved and brought over to north america. that proves that blacks in america were in africa but were not from the same descendency as the africans because the africans were sons of ham and the blacks, latins and west indians were descendents of shem then abraham, issac and jacob. blacks are not africans. if you want to here more about other races including all nations of color and white people contact me at blackjewz@aol.com

keziah <blackjewz@aol.com>
Age: 20, new york, ny USA - Thursday, May 13, 1999 at 19:39:19 (EDT)


hello my name is black and I've read thoroughly trough your sight and you bring up a lot of valid points that egypt in the bible was one of the sons of ham.the youngest son. it says in the living insights bible gen.9:28 that the hamites populated east, north, and south africa and egypt. in the revised kings james bible dictionary it says that all of todays modern african races are descendents of hamitic tribes.all of this means that ham's descendents were africans including egypt,canaan,and ethiopia(cushites).in gen.9:22-28,it says that canaan was cursed by noah because ham, his son saw his father's nakedness. yes eyptians,and all africans are desendents the ancient egyptians ,cushites,canaanites and all other hamitic groups but if you believe in the bible if your black american that your part of a nation thats cursed.also, ham is not a decendent of shem and from him came abraham,israel and the 12 tribes of israel (israelites,jew,.hebrews).that means that black americans that are christians are not goods chosen people because they are not part of the nation of israel.they are hamites,descendents of ham and canaan (south africans) are cursed. thats all lie. in song of solomon 1:6 an israelite women was describing herself and she said she was "black, black as the tent's of kedar.do not stare at because iam black and the sun has looked at me." That proves that the israelites were black not white not red but black. canaan or palestine "the promise land" consists of west and south africa. when abraham came in into canaan, he found people living there and named the land after them.the land of canaan.the israelites lived inthe western coast of africa (the ivory cost),nigeria and other western african countries. when the europeans came to africa to get slaves they took them from nigeria and the west cost because it was so wealthy in minerals and natural resourse. they africans (hamites) established a trade called the african american slave trade because the africans were trading with the americans. the israelites along the ivory coast were enslaved and brought over to north america. that proves that blacks in america were in africa but were not from the same descendency as the africans because the africans were sons of ham and the blacks, latins and west indians were descendents of shem then abraham, issac and jacob. blacks are not africans. if you want to here more about other races including all nations of color and white people contact me at blackjewz@aol.com

keziah <blackjewz@aol.com>
Age: 20, new york, ny USA - Thursday, May 13, 1999 at 19:36:37 (EDT)


hello my name is black and I've read thoroughly trough your sight and you bring up a lot of valid points that egypt in the bible was one of the sons of ham.the youngest son. it says in the living insights bible gen.9:28 that the hamites populated east, north, and south africa and egypt. in the revised kings james bible dictionary it says that all of todays modern african races are descendents of hamitic tribes.all of this means that ham's descendents were africans including egypt,canaan,and ethiopia(cushites).in gen.9:22-28,it says that canaan was cursed by noah because ham, his son saw his father's nakedness. yes eyptians,and all africans are desendents the ancient egyptians ,cushites,canaanites and all other hamitic groups but if you believe in the bible if your black american that your part of a nation thats cursed.also, ham is not a decendent of shem and from him came abraham,israel and the 12 tribes of israel (israelites,jew,.hebrews).that means that black americans that are christians are not goods chosen people because they are not part of the nation of israel.they are hamites,descendents of ham and canaan (south africans) are cursed. thats all lie. in song of solomon 1:6 an israelite women was describing herself and she said she was "black, black as the tent's of kedar.do not stare at because iam black and the sun has looked at me." That proves that the israelites were black not white not red but black. canaan or palestine "the promise land" consists of west and south africa. when abraham came in into canaan, he found people living there and named the land after them.the land of canaan.the israelites lived inthe western coast of africa (the ivory cost),nigeria and other western african countries. when the europeans came to africa to get slaves they took them from nigeria and the west cost because it was so wealthy in minerals and natural resourse. they africans (hamites) established a trade called the african american slave trade because the africans were trading with the americans. the israelites along the ivory coast were enslaved and brought over to north america. that proves that blacks in america were in africa but were not from the same descendency as the africans because the africans were sons of ham and the blacks, latins and west indians were descendents of shem then abraham, issac and jacob. blacks are not africans. if you want to here more about other races including all nations of color and white people contact me at blackjewz@aol.com

keziah <blackjewz@aol.com>
Age: 20, new york, ny USA - Thursday, May 13, 1999 at 19:34:13 (EDT)


Dear Mr. Clegg, You should know that your belief of the Nubian (i.e. "Negro") origin of the Ancient Egyptians is taught in the Book of Abraham in the volume of Mormon Scripture called The Pearl of Great Price. In chapter one of that book it says that the first Pharoah of Egypt was a "righteous man" who was "blessed with wisdom, and the blessings of the earth", but cursed as pertaining to the Priesthood because he was a descendants of Ham.

Darrick Evenson <darricke@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, Ogden, UT USA - Thursday, May 13, 1999 at 17:38:22 (EDT)


Thank-You!!!!!! this session has confirmed what I've always felt," SPECIAL"! I've learned more black history in this past ten minutes then my fourteen years of schooling. Thank-You

joanne miller <miller3@mail.med.upenn.edu>
Age: 38, philadelphia, pa USA - Thursday, May 13, 1999 at 14:17:56 (EDT)


Mikyia mo (Greetings), A point of clarification. Egypt was no more a "multi-racial society" than was South Africa initially. This, in the sense that South Africa was invaded by white aliens who moved to conquer the Africans (the invading whites were not the founders of the culture/ancient civilizations of South Africa). White supremacists have not found evidence of whites being the founders of the civilization of Kamit. They have deliberately falsified the facts to make it appear as such. That's what white supremacy is fundamentally about. When Africans (not "black supremacists") go and study and produce actual evidence of the pure Black African foundation of the civilization of Kamit, and further, irrefutable proof of the deliberate falsification of our heritage by the white supremacist so-called "scholars", this is simply making the true facts available for all to see for the first time. This is intelligent. Truth is beneficial for all who respect it.

Kwesi
USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 17:46:45 (EDT)


HOPE for Africa Act - (introduced in the House) - 106th Congress - 1st Session - H.R. 772: This is the alternative to President Clinton's African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA), that was created by Jesse Jackson, Jr., and others. This was put before the house to authorize a new trade, investment, and development policy for sub-Saharan Africa that is mutually beneficial to the majority of people in sub-Sharan Africa and the United States. If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of this Act, please e-mail me and I will forward the attachment to you. This article is 28 pages long and will not fit in a normal-sized e-mail.

Karen C. Aboiralor <Kcamm23063@aol.com>
Age: ?, Oakland, CA USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 12:43:45 (EDT)


To say that Egypt was black is as erroneous as saying it was white. Why is it that both white suppremisist and black suppremists are able to easily find plentiful scientific evidence to support their cause? The reason is that Egypt was a multiracial society. They had pure black people and pure white people. Furthermore, they had mixtures of races. How else could you explain that Egypt was able to maintain such close ties with Ethiopia and the Assyrians? How else can you explain why Moses was confused for an Egyptian. Egypt was the result of the meeting place of the black race and white race. What the Egyptian accomplished is not important. What is important is this mixing of the race that occured and the final result of this. Sadly, even though the white man says that it is his race that is being destroyed, this is false. What do we know of N. Africa today. What is known is that today the North Africas are dominated (in terms of number of people) by the white man? What happened? The more fertile lands the white man posseses allows for overpopulation. Furthermore, because of the location of the Middle East, all the technological ideas spread through it (iron, horse back, etc.) creating a hi-tech white race. The natural conclusion for them was to spread, and spread they did. They went to North Africa probably killed lots of the inhabitants and intermingled with the rest making a whiter North Africa. Furthermore, even more white invaders or friends of the original invaders moved into North Africa turning it to what it is today, mostly white north of the Sahara. Sadly, the trend is still continuing as the white man still is spreading quickly. The third world white countries powered by lack of organization (which allows for lots of babies), hi-tech armies (provided by their proximity to Europe), and religion (Islam making it easier for their race to be accepted) are still spreading into black Africa. Will the black man disappear? He might. With integration in the mother land being the rule, with white people having more babies and black people having less, the genes of the black man are slowly being errased. The white man is purposely keeping the black man in Africa out of the hi tech revolution because once he enters it, this trend will stop since the black man will be able to defend himself. The black man is not the only one being threatened. The Latinos are in the same boat and are probably worse off. What can be said today about Latinos is that they are far more difficult to differentiate from the white man as they were in the past, and much more when they were pure Indians. The white man has set up the system so that in all Latin American countries there is at least a 10% population of pure Caucasians. These caucasians have all the power and wealth. Because of this, they support the growth of the whiter Latinos and deter the darker brown skinned Latinos from growing via poverty. Furthermore, the white male caucasians have illegitimate children with these Latinos, further whitening the Latino race while keeping their genetic lineage pure. The only race the white race has no influence over now is the Asiatic race since their numbers are so high and concentrated. If the two races would inter breed at high proportions, the Asian race would win out since it is both far more homogenous than the white race and more concentrated in one area. What would the result be if they interbred. Well the white race would hardly make a dent in the overpopulated China, while Chinese fleeing to less densely populated land will intermingle with Caucasians turning them into Asiatic stock. The white race in order to protect itself has established the United Nations (to protect borders of hi-tech countries), kept the Chinese Communist (to allow government both to contain the population and reduce the numbers) , and gave technology to the Chinese (which reduces reproduction and keeps them from invading other countries). It is clear that the white race is out to conquer this world, and as a fellow black person, I tell you to all watch out, your time might have ended. Do each other a favor, and stay within your race.

John Brown
USA - Wednesday, May 12, 1999 at 06:13:34 (EDT)


YOU SAID IT BROTHER CLEGG!

BLACK36865 <BLACK36865>
25, ILL USA - Friday, May 07, 1999 at 17:03:27 (EDT)


Greetings sisters, brothers and elders: I am not trying to tell anyone what to do, but if we, as Africans, do not involve ourselves in African matters, we will definitely lose what is left of the Motherland. I implore all of you read President Clinton's "African Growth and Opportunity Act" (AGOA), and try to understand what it will do or what it will not do for Africa. An alternative to this Act is Jesse Jackson, Jr.'s, H.O.P.E., please contemplate it. This is a very serious issue, and we need to get out in droves protesting Clinton's Act - that is if you are against it. Unfortunately, I find more white folks involved in this matter than I find Africans (whether in the USA or in Africa). Time is running out, so please study the above issue and organize in your community if you are against it. The following is information concerning the Pacific West Coast Regional Summit: The Pacific West Coast Regional SUMMIT ON AFRICA June 4-5, 1999 San Francisco, CA If you are interested in US/Africa relations, and if you are not interested in US/Africa relations, you are invited and encouraged to attend this summit. The National Summit on Africa seeks to engage all Americans in developing a plan of action for US foreign policy toward Africa through the deliberations of participants in five regional summits to educate the American public about Africa, and to broaden and strengthen the networks of Africa's supporters in the US. The participants at each regional summit produce a Policy Plan of Action for US/Africa relations; at the National Summit in February 2000, delegates elected at the five regional summits will amalgamate these five documents into a Draft National Policy Plan of Action. The national document will be presented to the White House, the Congress, and to civic leaders throughout the US. If you are interested, please visit these websites: www.africasummit.org, and www.wacsf.org

Karen C. Aboiralor <KCAMM23063@AOL.Com>
Age: ?, Oakland, CA USA - Thursday, May 06, 1999 at 05:11:24 (EDT)


salem!, Hadasah: this is somthing bother me, when you mentioned that" Ok, let's talk sumer, Israel, Elam, hittites, ORIGINAL Arab.. from Ishmaelits lingage (black), Cushite india.. cry, "Hadasah, Hadasah, where you get that informed that Israel were came from Ishmaelite lingage?? may be i am confuse. but i dont understand and this is big bother me this .. Hadasah, do you know that Moses was married the Ishmalite(the ethiopian)woman,in Number 12v1; Exodus 2v15-22 and Exodus 18v1-6? if you have a careful to read it for youself in the book of Genesis 37v25-28,36 and Genesis 39v1. Midianite was called Ishmaelite, and the Ishmaelite was called the Midianite. Ethiopian was Midianite/or Ishmaelite. they are all the same word. Hadasah, i am sorry to say again and again abt where you get inform about Israel were came from Ishmaelite lineage? this is big problem becuz this never mention any in bible.. could you give me some explain and where verse these? please type this only thank you .... friend.

RICK <CKFARBES@hotmail.com>
sacto, ca USA - Monday, April 26, 1999 at 18:57:10 (EDT)


Greetings: To everyone who missed at out on hearing Dr. Theophile Obenga this past Saturday, April 24. in Dallas, Tx., you missed a good lesson. Dr. Obenga spoke on writing as it relates to philosophy and where we as Africans can find our philosophy in terms of world history. One point Dr. Obenga spoke about was French and the other Romance languages not being the mother tongue of its speakers. He joked that French, Spanish, Portugese,etc. (Romance languages) as being the ebonic form of Latin (Roman language). Dr. Obenga elaborated on his and Dr. Diop's presentation at the 1974 UNESCO conference, where the African dream team (Obenga and Diop) victoriously argued that Kemet (Egypt) was an African country populated by Black African people living a Black African culture. No one presented, which included premier Egyptologists from the U.S., Great Britain, France, Germany among others, could refute the case without trying to bargain or compromise. You can not compromise fact with accepted fiction, it is distasteful and scholarly negligent to do so. But, the mind of the status quo (maintainer of lies and white supremacy) continues to compromise fact with fiction and then dupes the world it believing this hodge-podge of mess by calling it academics or the humanities. What is universally humane about maintaining a false theory in an attempt to boost egos and trick the populace to fulfill the needs of superiority. One psychological item hints that the constant assertions of Western academia is pseudo. This always attributing greatness and civilization to the Western world. This is ego centric, as well as, Eurocentric and only displays the inherent inferiority complex within the European psyche. Not to sound Black supremacy but does it always seem as if Europeans lack something. In this case they lack esteem so they must create a false esteem and a false world (reality), where they are perceived as gods and worshipped as such. Other things Euorpeans seem to lack are the idea of spirituality (individualism), protein (this is why their hair is straight), melanin (this is why their skin is white), and a heart (this is why violence perpetuated on land, begats more violence on the land, read-in, Sand Creek Indian Massacre 1857-Columbine Colorado High School Massacre 1999).

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 17:52:59 (EDT)


hey Pharaoh, and others folks this .. hey your great and great forfathers were slave when the european white folks brough the black jews of you out of west and east african to america and over the world also.. becuz your greatest forefathers were escaped from north african israel land to speard in west and east african due roman and greek of pale peoples were captured the land. and Israelites were hide and live among african people as we were immigrants among them ... please dont surprised and not argued with me please... becuz the european came in west african and east african, the african two kings told romans that black jews were noot their nationailly children. end up, they asked two kings of africans for sell and buy for their slaves then the two african kings ended up to sold them to grecians (joel 3v9), it proved to you... other second thing is answer you , guess what this world is freedom now, then why not you buy some tickets for airport and moving things back to africa where you belong to .. this is your chance and you better grab to move back to african before world will be law for every nations not allow to move other place .. and why you keep complant and why you stay to live in american ?? move out anck back to africa now !

the BLACK JEW <the Nation of Israelite>
worldwide of black Israelites, noi USA - Sunday, April 25, 1999 at 04:25:09 (EDT)


Greetings all. For you physical anthropologists, we have a new find in Eastern Africa, which could profoundly impact the human evolutionary fossil record. Scientist are now saying they have found a go between A. afarensis (Lucy) and H. erectus. This new find is dated as far back as 2.5 million years ago and was tool user(butchering meat with stones). Here's some more info: "Theories abound in the contentious field of human origins research, but a basic outline has emerged from genetic and anatomical studies of modern apes and humans. Fossils found over the last 75 years in Africa have validated and extended this picture. The evolutionary lines leading to humans and the African chimpanzees and gorillas split more than five million years ago. Research in Africa since the 1920s has identified several successive fossil species leading to humans. As more fossils have been found, the family tree has become more complex, sprouting several side branches including the robust Australopithecus "ape-men" of southern and eastern Africa. The earliest known fossil hominids belong to the genus Ardipithecus and date to 4.4 million years ago. The descendent ape-man genus Australopithecus was first recognized in South Africa in the 1920s. Several species are now known. Some, like A. aethiopicus (the "black skull" at 2.6 million years ago), A. robustus (1.8 million years ago) and A. boisei (2.3-1.3 million years ago) specialized and went extinct. Other earlier forms like the "Lucy" species Australopithecus afarensis (3.6-2.9 million years ago) and its precursor Australopithecus anamensis (3.9-4.2 million years ago) were less specialized and therefore suitable ancestors of the earliest generally recognized species in our own genus, Homo. That species, Homo habilis, named by Louis Leakey and colleagues in the early 1960s, is widely recognized as the maker of the earliest stone tools from the bottom of Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania. These deposits are dated to 1.8 million years ago. Some researchers think that "Homo habilis" fossils actually represent two different species. But the relationships between the earlier ape-men (particularly A. africanus) and their stone-tool-wielding early Homo descendants have been impossible to decipher because of the lack of an adequate east African fossil record between 2 million and 3 million years ago. The new Ethiopian fossils reported this week help fill this gap. According to Asfaw, the Ethiopian co-leader of the team, they are certain to stimulate new debate and additional research. But they also complicate our family tree."

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <Kwabena_Danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 10:34:23 (EDT)


All Western African people are not immigrants from other parts of the continent. One group is the Nok culture of west central Nigeria, which seems to have an time anteriority to many industries in other parts of Africa. I agree we must study each geographical group of the Grand Black Race because all are important to knowing the history, in totality, of the Kushite (African) people. The Africoid people are archaic and thus being so, Africoid history is very extensive. Not only are those cultures east of the Sinai desert Black, but also, the Oceanic people of Melansia, Micronesia, the Australian cluster of islands and Polynesia. Let us be sensitive to all cultures and ethnic groups that comprise the heavily melanted people of the world. Medase pii.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 18:38:32 (EDT)


Not all blacks are Hamites I have to say In light of the Canaanites issue. I for one claim the Hebrew heritage which is the hertage of many blacks in the states. Yes the Egyptians were black and the rest. But why do we skim over the Shemitic peoples??? (I.E. Israelites) PLEASE READ DEUT. 28 and check out some of the Israelites sites. Some say W. Africa originates fro,m Egypt but other sources take only some of those tribes further back to Palestine. i.e. Ashanti which means People of Ashan. If you read Josh 15:42 Ashan was a suburb of Judah. There are many lost tribes in Africa. WHEN WILL WE RECOGNIZE THEM AND STUDY THEM IN FULL. Ok Egypt Egypt Egypt. ....fine....beautiful and I agree with the history. Ok. let's talk about Sumer, Israel, Elam, Hittites, ORIGINAL Arabs..from Ishmaelite lineage (black), Cushite India before Aryan invasion. Egypt is not the only thing about African culture though it is major. Shalom

Hadasah
Age: 30, Cleveland, Oh USA - Thursday, April 22, 1999 at 12:54:53 (EDT)


when we deal with this WE will NATION UP again... . HOTEP my PEEPS HOTEP my PEEPS LISTEN THIS Knowledge POW Revolution Change IS AN ACTION NOT A WISH . all WE can't NATION UP til da GOSSIPS SHUT UP til US stop stab WE BACK den WE not need de CRACK den WE gather OUR FEELINGS NATION UP JAH JAH HEALING! . time 2 address da mess - time 2 STOP IT black-2-black GENOCIDE starts with black-2-black GOSSIP . eye Alkebu-Lan RA (fromdenationof) Ra-Star-Far-Eye alkebu-Lan Warrior Knowledge POW Revolution Eye meta-Physically Right On Time! TIME 2 bury da LIE . truth Challenges LIES Black-2-Black Gossip DIES Silence Greatest Weapon Stand 4 de Truth it's NATION BUILDING TIME . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HIND . hoods Predesigned Prejudice AlcoDrug Chemical ISM's Some WE oppressor down de LIGHT SKIN BROTHAZ Black-2-BLack GOSSIP begats Black-2-Black RACISM some WE oppressor down de DARK SKIN SISTAHZ ALCO-DRUG babies making babies ESCAPEIZM Black-2-Black Racist evolutes a Nation o'UDDAZ . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HIND . zillions o' Melanin Metaphysical PEEPS enslaved F'm Inter-Galactic Afrikan DREAMS twisted No Read -n- Dey Say 12 step SCHEMES Time a LEVEL Wisdom a Height Reading a NEED Newcomers die suicide Front Runners do not HEED . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HIND . brutal Vicious Global Enslaved Afrikan Mind TOTAL rainbow Oppressed Struggles Revolution HOPEFUL bruddaz/sistahz revolving doors 12 step OLDSTER Black-2-Black GOSSIP negates Afrikan Spirit CLOSURE . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HINDND . Outside Reflection Murdered Culture Raped Alcohol BOUND Black-2-Black Racist Crabs-n-a-Bucket Be FOUND how's da Village 2 Raise a Child oops not a SOUND adult b'hind lyrics re-design Childs mind FROWN takes a village to raise a Child... Still not a SOUND Black-2-Black GOSSIP doing da twist arou n AROUND . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HIND . my Nations My Traditions My Freedom DREAMS Afrikan Melanin Eye Alkebu-Lan RA PREENS Mzwahke Mbuli Fela Anikulapo Kuti Revolutes NEEDS after the 12 step process Life be FREED Intelligent Afrikan Warriors plant Intellectual SEED . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HIND . in Space All Alkebu-Lan Warriors Cold Warriors unBLIND Cold as de Galactical Nubian 9 on d'Nubian MIND SeySey wit'out ReadRead is black-2-black LYING gossiping brothaz weak black nations not TRYING Young Afrikan Minds await iinstructionz FRYING slave row mentallity Gossip money parents CRYING . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HINDD . 340,000 Nations Samsoned by oppressors lying LINE d'World d'Galaxy d'Universe My Mind MINE we're b'hind cause WE want 2 be b'HIND Slave Row mentality self inflicted US 2 our KIND . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HIND . in CyberSpace All Afrikan Warriors Are Cold WARRIORS Afrikan Warriors reveal tinted/non-tinted HORRORS Black Gossip 2 Black Alco-Drugs Melanin GONERS Technicolor oppressors Mind-Alter da CORNERS . NATION BUILDING TIME! MY NATION BUILDING TIME AlkebuLan Elders Spirits Konnect d'AlkebuLan MIND Mind-Altering Gossip ties yo' mind 2 yo' B'HIND . AMEN-HOTEP AMEN-HOTEP LISTEN THIS Knowledge Power Revolution Change IS AN ACTION NOT A WISH . metaphysically spewed by: Eye Afrikan (fromdenationof) RA-STAR-FAR-EYE aka Arthur L. Davis Jr., USAF E-6 Ret/DAV 20years 2months 25days 15seconds http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/I-AfrikanRA/page5.html \\\V///ietnam \\\V///eteran - Legalize World Freedom! U.S.Forces All Aircraft Combat Systems Qualified Aircraft Maintenance - The Heartbeat! of Aviation d'War aint over til We ALL come Meta-Physically Home ALL U.S.Forces Veterans Putit on d'line 4 SOMEBODY! SOMEBODY must putit on d'Line 4 ALL Homeless Veterans! keep it HONEST n OPEN keep it SIMPLE n SOVERIGN keep it DRUGFREE n SERENE keep it SOBER n CLEAN keep FREEDOM FREE on d'SCENE da alkebu-Lan SUNS o' KEMET My 84 GoldWing is a Revolution .

Arthur L. Davis Jr., USAF E-6 Ret/DAV <JahAfrikanSun@pobox.com>
Age: 56, Wilmington, DE USA - Tuesday, April 20, 1999 at 19:10:34 (EDT)


Egypt's beliefs in a divine god incarnate as a king are what made Ancient Egypt what it was. The pharaoh with the divine attributes of rightness(ma'et), creative utterance, and superhuman understanding wisely resided as a god incarnate(horus) as son of Re or his chosen divinity on earth. Everything Egypt was came from the beliefs in a divine diety. Although in the epigram of Hecateus we read that Egypt was the gift of the Nile, we know from our knowledge that the Egyptian State was the creation of the pharaoh. If we look at the Sun Cult of Thebes we see that scripture upon scripture was written to this black leader of strength and wisdom. The Aten, a divine heavenly which powered the disk of Re. This is what Akhenaten placed focus upon. Who do we praise more today MalcolmX or our future black leaders? MalcolmX is the answer. By Akhenaten placing focus upon the Aten we learn from the past. The Bible transcends this by saying that the past is not important. What is this? The past is highly important. The past is what could educate 22 million uneducated so called negroes. History is what Elijah Muhammad used to build the once 11 million membered Nation of Islam. This is where the white philosopher has us tricked. This is where the white theologian has us tricked. What seperates royalty from pesantry Malik El Shabazz once asked. The answer is that royalty knows it's history and pesantry does not. If the written was not used by the Nubians or Egyptians how would we be teaching the glory and wisdom of Ancient Egypt. How could 22 million negroes be robbed of who they are? The first thing the white man did was rob them of history. Am I right or wrong? The white man is certainly not going to openly tell the black man of his history. Why do you think we have independence day for the white man but no Independence Day for the black man? How come the black man lives in a nation where an Irish Holiday is celebrated? Why do we not hear of MalcolmX teachings of the black man's history during black history month? THE WHITE MAN DOES NOT WANT US TO KNOW OUR HISTORY. That is what this site says and I must commend them. Let us do our best to use the attribute I listed of the pharoah above and every moment let us remember the pharaonate and a wise black culture that is missing from the African Americans. The pharaonate is nothing but prophecy. By the white man saying forget the past this is the future he is implying let us rob you of your culture and make you our business men and politicians for a while but still give you no power. If we could build a present day pharaonate, how could we? Unless we being to support orginizations like the NOI, even if you are a Christian or a Muslim who does not like some of their teachings, support them because they are only for the advancement and knowledge of the history of the black race. Salaam. Next time I will describe the pharaonate and how it's religious beliefs were a prophecy of today's society in the projects. May the most merciful bless you all and your family. Let us place ourselves in a current pharaonic state of mind in which history is our truth and it shall set us free from the chains abroad. May the pharaonate and Nubia's history give you power to teach the Lost Tribe of Shabazz here in America of their history, their oppresion now, and what things could be like.

Nasir <J12NAS@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 20:39:48 (EDT)


we are all one universal god ,you can close the books,we so-called black people are the truth,stop debating over things you have no knowledge of,and gain your strength back and be whole again.we must come togeather as one mind,like the many bricks come togeather to form one building, one solid foundation study nature only then can you understand self.

truth
Age: n/a, USA - Monday, April 19, 1999 at 17:13:13 (EDT)


*********The Third Eye Presents Its Annual Spring Awakening********An African Philosophy of World History Guest Speaker: Dr. Theophile Obenga, Chairman of African Studies Department, San Francisco State University. Dr Obenga is an Internationally Renowned Specialist in African Languages (Linguistics), as well as, being an Egyptologist, Anthropologist and Philosopher. Where: The Black Academy of Arts & Letters, 650 S. Griffin St. (Corner of Canton & Akard) Dallas, Texas 75202 When: 6:00 P.M., Saturday, April 24, 1999. African Dancers and Drummers, African Market (Booths Available) Admission: $15.00 at the Door. Dr. Obenga presented information along with Cheikh Anta Diop at the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) Conference in 1974. Dr. Obenga and Dr. Diop presented the case for the Blackness of ancient Egyptians and the Africaness of their culture so thoroughly the other scholars present could not refute their agruments. Come meet with Dr. Theophile Obenga on Saturday, April 24, 1999 at 6:00 P.M. in Dallas, Tx. For more info call the Third Eye at (214)428-1040

Kwabena Adofo Danquah
USA - Sunday, April 18, 1999 at 15:03:36 (EDT)


MY PEOPLE ARENT CANAANITES WE ARE AFRICAN KUSH (CUSH) LEBU(LIBYA)TA-MERRY (EGYPT) TA-SETI (NUBIA WE ARE NOT CANAANITES WE ARE NOT SLAVES GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT BRA..

PHAROAH
USA - Saturday, April 17, 1999 at 14:44:52 (EDT)


THE BIBLE PERDICT THAT ALL THE BLACK AMERICA WILL RETURN IN TO SLAVE OLD TIMES.. BECUZ THIS AMERICA GOING GROW AND GROW SINNER BY BLACK INFLUENCE AND YOU DID NOT FOLLOWING THAT WHAT THE BIBLE TOLD YOU.. THE BIBLE HISTORY HAD BEEN TALKING ABT THE JEW CAPTIVE. BECUZ YOU ARE THE REAL JEW, YOU SHOULD NOT BE SURPRISED ABT YOUR NATIVITY BLACK HEWBREW, YOU WEREN'T FROM EUROPEAN. YOU WERE CAME FROM HAM LAND WHICH NOAH PROPHECY THAT HAM THE FATHER OF CANAAN, HAM'S FOURTH SON THAT YOU ALL WERE CANAANTIE.. THE BIBLE PROVE TO YOU

NONE
Age: MMM, 2000 USA - Saturday, April 17, 1999 at 03:38:17 (EDT)


I would like to state that I was fascinated to find a website that delves in the factual history of blacks as a people. ETHNIC NOTES--Profiles in African-American History (Our Organization)has been stressing these and other points for years. We commend you for bringing these facts to the millions of us online. Thanks for the information, and please, feel free to e-mail us at: prince49@gateway.net Sincerely, Russell D. Shockley, B.S.Ed., Director ETHNIC NOTES--Profiles in African-American History

Russell D Shockley, B.S.Ed. <prince49@gateway.net>
Age: 49, Dallas, TX USA - Thursday, April 15, 1999 at 00:12:43 (EDT)


Hey, YE KNOW NOTHING ABT THE BIBLE, IF YE KNOW ABOUT THE BIBLE, THEN TELL ME WHICH ONE IN BIBLE VERSE ?? DID YOU NOT KNOW THAT YE WERE ONE OF THE "LOST" TRIBES OF ISRAELITES WHICH WEHRE IT IN LOCATED EGYPT, I GIVE YOU THAT EGYPT MEANING IS HAM OR AFRICA IT AN ANSWER CORRECT!... YOU AREN'T EGYPTIAN , JUST LIKE YOU SHOULD CLAIM, I AM HAMITE!. I KNOW THAT I AM A HAMITE-SEMTIC, BEUCZ I KNOW WHERE I CAME FROM AND WHERE I WILL GO.... THERE ARE AFRICA NONE OF TRIBES AND YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE LOST OF TRIBES OF HAM LAND.. do you know who would save you it will be in the last day out of her plague and do you know who will bring you back to africa land where belong to you ?? DO YOU NOT BELIEVE ME, OK WOULD YOU FORGIVE ME? CHECK IT OUT WEBSITES ~~~~~> WWW.JAH.COM ; WWW.ISRAELITE.NET <~~~~~~~~~~~ then type copy in your http:address

no know <mmmmm@noneknown.com>
Age: myob, noneknow, usa USA - Saturday, April 10, 1999 at 20:28:20 (EDT)


Bro. Clegg, it was an honor reading the Part.1 Before Egypt article in January/February edition of Maat News. My study group has been talking about the age of Her-ma-ket for some time now. My elder and mentor told me there's a saying that the Sphinx is as old as time itself. Fascinating! Also, if we to conclude with early torrential rains that took place over some 6,000 years ago, could this validate the Gilgamesh Epics of Sumer concerning a great flood, as well as, the long-sought but never conclusive search for Atlantis? From my understanding of Part.1, the Sphinx is a Black man and from my understanding of the symbolism of the Sphinx, where the face represents the divine potential in wo/man, we can conclude that either the ancient ones were Black, themselves, or that using a Black face to represent divine potential the ancients paid a grand compliment to Black people, the world over. You, also, briefly spoke of possible interplanetary connection, do you think it would be feasible to possibly look into the Dogon and other African cosmogonies for more info and evidence to this hypothesis? Just a few questions and thought to ponder. Again keep up the diligent and needful work. Modupe.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <Kwabena_Danquah@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, April 10, 1999 at 14:37:08 (EDT)


AFRICA BELONGS TO THE BLACK PEOPLES!!!!

?
USA - Friday, April 09, 1999 at 23:29:29 (EDT)


the ancient egyptians are black so as they colored them selves negro they werent allowed to use the color black for it resembled gods and ancestors the nubian shown as black was the ancestors of the egyptians but when the egyptians died they were gods thus like tut and mentuhotep and rameses all viewed them selves as blacks after they died and so on the remaining of the naitve egyptian pharaohs.

pharoah
USA - Friday, April 09, 1999 at 16:58:13 (EDT)


Your articial was very interesting. I think the the movies had a lot to do with how we view Eyptians and believe that world has and always will have white people as the dominated people.

Marian B. Marshall <martrem.bellsouth.net>
Age: 52, Savannah, Ga USA - Thursday, April 08, 1999 at 15:10:06 (EDT)


I FIND YOUR NEWS LETTER TO BE VERY INFOMATIVE. WRITTEN IN VERY GOOD TASTE. PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST. AT TGLENN@VALERO.COM KEEP THE GOOD INFORMATION COMING

tyrone glenn
USA - Thursday, April 08, 1999 at 12:57:42 (EDT)


With the Volume III release of The MA'AT Newsletter, we are refreshing our guestbook. As always your thoughts and comments on our newsletter and africentrism are welcome. Please do not forget to order The Clegg Series: When Black Men Ruled The World.

You may read previous comments by visiting the Guestbook Archive

Peace,

Legrand

Legrand Clegg II <clegg@melanet.com>
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, April 08, 1999 at 09:07:17 (EDT)


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