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A MESSAGE FROM THE MODERATOR

The Clegg Series site was established in December of 1996 to provide an opportunity for people of African descent and others to present uncensored information about Black History and culture. Our intention was to create a forum for a broad, provocative and respectful exchange of ideas.

 Unfortunately, over the past month the entries into our popular guestbook have degenerated into rude, vulgar and racist name-calling. While we certainly encourage controversy, we don’t believe that personal or racial insults are appropriate. Let us continue our dialogue on a constructive level.

During the existence of our site, the major point of contention has been whether the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. It is quite understandable that this issue would stir up heated passions. For nearly two hundred years now, White scholars have removed Black people from Egypt, Egypt from Africa and Africa from world history. They have always taught that Egypt is in the Near East, the Middle East, the Mediterranean and even the Fertile Crescent. They have never informed the world that Egypt is and always has been on the Continent of Africa.

While White publishers controlled everything written and taught about Africa - - and often published books stating that the Ancient Egyptians were White - - no one, except Black people, complained. However, since Black people began publishing their own work and using the internet to tell our story, suddenly everyone is interested in setting Black people straight by insisting that the Ancient Egyptians were neither Black nor white, but Arabs, like the Arabs of today.

We disagree. Arabs invaded Egypt in the 7th Century AD, long after Ancient Egyptian civilization had declined and faded away. Arabs have no more connection to Ancient Egypt than Europeans have to Ancient America.

Many have argued that, even if the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans, modern African Americans, who lay claim to Egyptian civilization, are not akin to them because their ancestors were West Africans. This reflects a lack of knowledge about African history. Virtually all West African people trace their ancestry to the northeast and ultimately to the Nile Valley. A number of Black scholars have revealed evidence of the ancient migratory trail from the Nile across the continent to West Africa and the Atlantic Ocean. Therefore, modern African Americans do indeed have a direct link to the Ancient Egyptian people.

We understand that most White people and Arabs have great difficulty imagining Black Africans to have laid the foundation of civilization. We sincerely regret that Western racist propaganda has so narrowed their worldview. But, at this site we deal with evidence - - not propaganda, not passion, not preconceived notions or white supremacy.

In our bi-monthly MA’AT newsletter, we present evidence that the main-stream media will not touch, because it would destroy racist myths that have been embraced as inviolable truths by millions around the world. If you find this site to be at variance with your sacred belief system, please avoid visiting us. After all contrary opinions prevail in most other forums. Why not express your views on those sites where you may comfortably reassure people of like mind?

In the meantime, for those of you who chose to study, evaluate and critique the Africentric perspective on the origin of the Ancient Egyptians, we invite you to visit the February, 1997 issue of MA’AT. This monumental document presents a substantial body of evidence that conventional scholars, both Arab and European, choose to ignore.

Many Black scholars have presented the Africentric view on the "race" of the Ancient Egyptians. Their research has triggered a reevaluation of certain assumptions. For example, most Black Africans do not have thick lips and broad noses. There are four distinct Black African physical types. All were part of the Ancient Egyptian population. Secondly Ancient Egyptian drawings were largely conventional. This means that they clearly had a symbolic meaning that was not true to form. For example, the traditional reddish brown color used to portray all men (no matter what their true skin tone) may have represented the African "blood of life" concept. For religious purposes, Black Africans have painted their bodies red or reddish brown from time immemorial.

Therefore, one should not reach hard and fast conclusions about Egyptian ethnicity based on the color used in the tomb and pyramid drawings. Furthermore, even if the colors are accurate depictions of the people, a number of indigenous, unmixed Africans, like the Pygmies, have reddish brown skin tone. Yet no one would deny that these are "Black" African people. In light of this, if the Ancient Egyptians were indeed of reddish brown skin color, they were of the same color as modern Pygmies.

As many writers in the guestbook have attempted to explain, the original Black Egyptians were mixed with invading Libyans, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Arabs and Western Europeans. This explains the genetic status of the modern Egyptian, who does not resemble his Black African forebears.

To truly determine the Ancient Egyptian "race," one must consider the full range of linguistic cultural, anatomical, archaeological and genetic evidence. One recent, nonblack scholar, Richard Poe ("Black Spark: White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilize Ancient Europe") (Prima Publishing, Rocklin, CA), has done just that and has reached the following conclusion: "Were the Egyptians black? That is entirely up to up to you. But were they biologically African? It would seem that they were."

We, of course, believe that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans and the following is a synopsis of some of the evidence that supports our view:

  1. Evidence from Physical Anthropology

    2. The skeletons and skulls of the Ancient Egyptians clearly reflect that they were a Negroid people with features very similar to those of modern Black Nubians and other people of the Upper Nile and of East Africa.
     
  2. Melanin Dosage Test

    3. Egyptologist Cheikh Anta Diop invented a method for determining the level of melanin in the skin of human beings. When conducted on Egyptian mummies in the Museum of Man in Paris, this test indicated that these remains were of Black people.
     
  3. Osteological Evidence

    4. "Lepsius canon," which distinguishes the bodily proportions of various racial groups categories the "ideal Egyptian" as "short-armed and of Negroid or Negrito physical type."
     
  4. Evidence From Blood Types

    5. Diop notes that even after hundreds of years of inter-mixture with foreign invaders, the blood type of modern Egyptians is the "same group B as the populations of western Africa on the Atlantic seaboard and not the A2 Group characteristic of the white race prior to any crossbreeding."
     
  5. The Egyptians as They Saw Themselves

    6. "The Egyptians had only one term to designate themselves =kmt= the negroes (literally). This is the strongest term existing in the Pharaonic tongue to indicate blackness; it is accordingly written with a hieroglyph representing a length of wood charred at the end and not crocodile scales," singular. ‘Kmt’ from the adjective =kmt= black; it therefore means strictly negroes or at the very least black men. The term is a collective noun which thus described the whole people of pharaonic Egypt as a black people."
     
  6. Divine Epithets

    7. Diop demonstrates that "black or negro" is the divine epithet invariably used for the chief beneficent Gods of Egypt, while the evil spirits were depicted as red.
     
  7. Evidence From the Bible

    8. The Bible states that "…[t]he sons of Ham [were] Cush and Mizraim [i.e. Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah and Sabtechah." According to Biblical tradition, Ham, of course, was the father of the Black race. "Generally speaking all semitic tradition (Jewish and Arab) class ancient Egypt with the countries of the black."
     

  8. Cultural unity of Egypt With The Rest of Africa

    9. Through a study of circumcision and totemism, Diop gives detailed data showing cultural unity between Egypt and the rest of Africa.
     
  9. Linguistic Unity With Southern and Western Africa

    10. In a detailed study of languages, Diop clearly demonstrates that Ancient Egyptian, modern Coptic of Egypt and Walaf of West Africa are related, with the latter two having their origin in the former.
     
  10. Testimony of Classical Greek and Roman Authors

    11. Virtually all of the early Latin eyewitnesses described the Ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with wooly hair.
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Read Guestbook Archives for previous comments.

NOTICE TO OUR GUESTS

Please be advised that, since Saturday, November 6, 1999, the guestbook at The Clegg Series has not been open for comment. We are making adjustments on the site which should be completed by Thursday, November 11. Until that time, feel free to read the recent entries as well as those in the archives. We look forward to resuming receipt of your entries after our project is completed.

Legrand H. Clegg, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT newsletter <clegg@melanet.com>
Age: r, USA - Tuesday, November 09, 1999 at 08:18:49 (EST)

our brothers and sisters.... LET GET IT OVER NOW!!!!! DON'T FIGHTINH YOUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF AMERICA ONLY.. IF YOU WERE STRANGERS IN A LAND AMERICA. YOU ARE STILL STRANGER AND I AM STRANGER IN THIS AMERICAN LANDS..BECAUSE WE WERE THE CHILDREN OF HEBREW SLAVES CAME INTO THIS NORTH AMERICA FOR SLAVE.. WE ARE THE SAME STRANGERS TO GET TOGETHER.... JUST JUST LET THEM GO AND FORGET ABOUT THEM WHO THE ENEMY UNTO US. THEY KNEW THAT YOU AND ME ARE THE SLAVES OF THE MOST HIGH GOD AND THEY KNEW THAT THERE IS A ONLY PROPHET IN AMERICA HERE TO GLORY OVER THIS WORLD... WHY YOU FORGETTEN ABOUT US AND LOOKING ON EGYPT.. YOU {THE BLACKS} KNOW THAT YOU AND OUR WERE SLAVES IN EGYPT THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE ... WE REALLY NEEED YOU OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THIS BLACK NATION ONLY WHO WERE SLAVES IN AMERICA... YOU JUST FIGHT AGAINST WHITE WHO ENEMIES US FOR OUR THE BLACK NATION COULD BE FREE FROM THIS EMEMIES OF THE BLACK NATION ... LET FORGET THIS NOW AND LET IT GO FOR OUR SAKE .. JUST JION WITH OUR THE BLACK NATION ..... LIKE WE BUILDING THIS RE- BLACK NATION JUST ALIKE BUILDING OUR TEMPLE THAT WHITE COULDN'T AGAINIST US.. LET US CREATE THIS THE NEW BLACK NATION IN OUR OWN IMAGE THEIR SPIRIT. THIS WILL BE COME SOON TO BORN A NEW BABY TO BLACK NATION .. DONT WORRY ABOUT EGYPT AND LET THEM [ WHITE OR HISPANICS] TO TAKE CARE OF CRAPS ABOUT EGYPT .... GOD GIFTED YOU AND OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS BY BIBLE WORD IN YOUR MIND .... BECAUSE YOU AND YOUR FOREFATHERS WERE SLAVES FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. AND YOU KNEW THAT WE ARE THE ONLY NATION THIS AMERICA HERE UNLIKE OTHER NATION IN WORLD.. LET COME AND JOIN WITH US TO CREATE THIS NEW NAME AND THE SIGN OF BLACK NATION OF GOD WILL NOT SCATTER OVER THIS COUNTRY [AMERICA]LIKE IN GENESIS 11:1-9... LET GO AND FORGET ABOUT THEM ... THINKING OF US AND OUR THE BUILDING NATION FOR BLACK COMMUNITY IN NORTH AMERICA LIKE THE RE-RISE OF THE BLACK MESSIAH LIGHT TO WORLD IN THE END OF ALMIGHTY GOD. AMEN PRIASE THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL'S RIGHT HAND ON OUR HEAD SEPARATE FROM THEM CALLED LIES AND ENEMIES..... I AM NOT GOING TO SPEAK TO THE WORLD BUT GOD COMMANDED ME TO SAYING TO OUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE ONLY NATION SLAVE IN AMERICA..... JUST GET IT OVER NOW ..... MY FRIEND... I AM PROUD AN ANCERTORS OF SLAVES CAME FROM THE ANCIENT NATION ISRAEL THIS OUR ETERNAL LIFETIME! AMEN ...

the Night Prophet
Jer-USA-lem the Heavenly city of the America, CA USA - Saturday, November 06, 1999 at 05:57:54 (EST)

Dear Bryan, You and so many white people are insecure because of your genetically recessive albino mutant status. Everyone knows that in the animal kingdom albino rabbits, tigers, lions, monkeys, mice, etc. are inferior to the original stock. Just as your forefathers who lynched black men and then took their penises home with them (to eat them, I presume, so they could pretend that they were REAL men), you feel terrified by the very thought of black African majesty. "GET OVER IT!!!" As Mr. Clegg pointed out in one of the old News letters, black people are the genetically dominant parents of the human family. They laid down the foundation of civilization all over the world (for example you mentioned China, in China the earliest Shang Dynasties were black and they have found pyramids in China associated with them). Also, you claim that Chinese civilization may be the oldest in the world, but new information shows that the black Sphinx of Egypt may be 12,000 years old. Now try to beat that! White people do not represent evolution, they represent devolution. You say that black people are ape-like. Apes have thin lips, flat bottoms and hairy bodies. That sounds white to me. Also, you claim that the Egyptians referred to the people of Kush as wretched. Why don't you study your own European history? The Greeks, Romans and other Europeans all referred to Western Europeans and Nordics (who now claim to be the ancestors of the Greeks and Romans) to have been wild, barbaric savages. Does this mean to you that since the Greeks and Romans hated Northern Europeans, that the Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans were different races. Get it through your thick skull that Africa was and always has been the land of the blacks. The Egyptians and the people of Kush may have been bitter enemies, as you say, but they were also of the same racial group. Why don't you stop insulting black people, take your racist butt to another site, and get a life?

Ramses The Black
Age: 42, USA - Saturday, November 06, 1999 at 01:14:48 (EST)

get over it wrote: "THE VAST MAJORITY OF EGYPTIANS ARE AND WERE A OLIVE SKINNED" They had green skin?!

X-Dude
USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 21:21:26 (EST)

i would like to suggest, as an african american, that we stop all insults on this site. also, i would like to propose that we create a system whereby we can systematically accumulate all of the data that proves that the egyptians were black. this should include everything written about them by the HEBREWS, GREEKS , and ROMANS, etc. ultimately, the truth will prevail.

muenda <muenda@hotmail.com>
Age: 38, bellevue, wa USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 20:16:06 (EST)

Brothers and sisters....I have been "SLIMED" again! I want to reference a books: "The Isis Papers" and "CULTURE BANDITS" which many of you are familiar with already. Olives are green or so-called jet Black. Since I have never seen a green person I am to conclude what we have been saying....our ancient Egyptian ancestors were and are Black Africans. Why are these people so afraid of our finding ourselves my brothers? Fantastic article brother Clegg. You laid them out and gave me much food for thought! We are proud to come to this site where the opinions of white people do not matter and learn of our glorious heritage. Please keep feeding us the knowledge. HOTEP

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 20:03:38 (EST)

Thutmos,in regards to crime in this country Black crime is to obvious to try and deny.In the capital of Virginia,Richmond has had the highest murder rate or at least the second highest murder rate in the nation. Our onnly competition has come from other Negro cities such as New Orleans, and Washington D.C.. You mentioned the FBI Uniform Crime Report as proof of a higher White crime rate.However, the Uniform Crime Report does not list Hispanics as a group because they are lumped in with White crime and Hispanics are now getting ready to surpass negroes in population and become the largest minority.Civil Rights leaders are always complaining about how one third of young black men are in trouble with the law.Millions of whites have left our cities as they have been turned into crime filled African jungles! The Uniform Crime Report does an excellent job of showing the disproportionate rate of black crime.In terms of murder, robbery,rape,and assault blacks are much more likely to commit these crimes than all other groups put together.If you look at rape black males are arrested 42 percent of the time and you are only 13 percent of the U.S population.This trend is even worse for murder and robbery! You will probably come back with a bunch of lies but I encourage people to do exactly what you said and look up the FBI Uniform Crime Report for yourself and see.Also look at how our once civilized cities have been turned into jungles!!!!!!! You seem to like to call whites "melanin deficient" and "trailor trash" but whites dont want that AWFUL STINKY MELANIN that makes me feel sick whenever I smell it! In regards to "trailor trash" I easily respond by saying I dont care what some HALF EVOLVED GHETTO APE says about me or whites in general.All you do is write messages on this website all day because you are a looser with nothing better to do!

Jim
VA USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 12:39:09 (EST)

We are again faced with some White guests who insist on insulting people of African descent. They claim that we are genetically inferior and have no history; that Africa has always been a vast wasteland and that Black people are the pariahs of the human race. One writer has even asked if Black people were the only people on this planet for 200,000 years, why didn't we achieve more during that time? These are the assertions and questions of a people who are the victims of miseducation, propaganda and Eurocentrism. At this site we understand their plight and pity them, but our focus is not to seek their enlightenment or conversion. OUR MISSION IS TO EDUCATE BLACK PEOPLE. Part of our education must be to free ourselves of the false paradigms and self-serving Eurocentric constraints that even we have fallen victim to. For example, most indigenous people do not view history in the linear fashion that Europeans do. The Western view is that primitive Blacks evolved in Africa, civilization emerged in the Mediterranean and finally, following the age of Enlightenment and Imperialism, we have reached the last word in human achievement with our modern bombs, toothpaste and pornography. In Africa, Asia, Australia, the New World, etc., people of color view the world as having experienced several great ages of cultural emergence, evolution, maturity and destruction. For example, according to Maya tradition, the Fourth Age or Sun was destroyed by a great flood and the current, Fifth Age, will end, perhaps by cataclysmic earthquakes, on December 23, 2012. Virtually all indigenous people insist that there was a very great Golden Age that existed on the earth thousands of years ago and that this age was destroyed, as the Maya tradition holds, by a great flood. Many also insist that this age was far more technologically advanced than the world is today. Western scholars, as a whole, reject all of this and suppress, distort or ignore any and all evidence that confirms it. We believe that the reason for their myopia is because they do not want the people of the planet to know that human beings have exceeded the current so-called pinnacle of civilization in the past. Nevertheless, there are some White authorities who have broken ranks with tradition. They include Graham Hancock, Richard Hoagland, Colin Wilson, Zecharia Sitchin, Rand and Rose Flem-Ath, Robert Schoch and others. If one studies the history of this planet and closely observes its people, you will see the widespread presence of Blacks. The Grimaldis of prehistoric Europe, the Elamites and Chaldeans of Western Asia, the Davidians of India, the Australoids of Southern China, Southeast Asia and Australia and the variety of pre-Columbia Blacks, such as the Olmecs, who occupied the New World in antiquity. We believe that there was indeed a great flood in antiquity and that the world it destroyed was a vast Black empire that had reached extraordinary technological heights worldwide. Evidence of these people, their culture and achievements may be found in the Journals of African Civilization published over the past 20 years by Professor Ivan Van Sertima at Rutger University. Another point, which is gradually gaining ground today, is the likelihood that ancient people were advanced enough to engage in extraterrestrial or space travel. This may sound fantastic, but it is not. As NASA knows, may ancient people have left records of flying machines and numerous people also have traditions of extraterrestrial origins. Our interest in this was kindled by a tradition of the Hopi Indians that during the Third World or Sun their people visited the Moon. Investigating the possibility that ancient people may have engaged in space travel, we found that Soviet Scientists take this issue very seriously and that some Western authorities have documented it. (See "We Discovered Alien Bases On The Moon," by Fred Steckling, 1981). It appears that obelisks and other monuments have been found on the Moon and that they are mathematically synchronized with the monuments on the Gizen plateau in Egypt. The following article, which sheds light on this subject, was published in the April, 1998 issue of the MA'AT newsletter. Before you shrug your shoulders and walk away, please read this information so that you will see the lengths to which Western scientists will go to suppress BLACK HISTORY-even when such knowledge would be of immeasurable benefit to the human race. Suppression of this and other startling evidence allows racists to gather at our site and smugly prate about their alleged superiority. Our MA'AT readership is comprised of a highly educated, well read, open minded, conscious group of truth seekers. Bearing this in mind, we carefully investigate information on Black history and culture that we think will be of interest to our subscribers. We are keenly aware that the Western academic, scientific and media establishments have consciously suppressed, distorted or ignored the true history of African people and their descendants in the diaspora. So much so that revelations of today, which were widely known and acknowledged in antiquity, are often dismissed as exaggerations, tall tales and "feel good history." In other words, the Black truths of yesteryear have been swept away by the White lies of today; and the latter are so entrenched, ubiquitous and respected that, in the modern world, TRUTH must prove itself to an often skeptical and even hostile public. Hence, to a world accustomed to viewing African people as genetically inferior, steeped in squalor, starvation and internecine warfare, and light years behind the march of civilization -- the ancient Egyptians could not have been Black, Africans did not sail to the New World thousands of years before Columbus and the medieval Blackamoors, who civilized Western Europe, were "not Negroes." Well, if the skeptics have felt that we have been brash in resurrecting the ancient tradition of the Black origin of civilization, this issue of MA'AT will give them even greater cause for astonishment and disbelief. In light of NASA's recent effort to cover-up evidence of the African face on Mars (in spite of a barrage of calls, letters and protests from around the world challenging their conclusions) and their apparent ignoring of other monuments on the Red Planet, we believe that it is time to introduce a new dimension of Black history to our readership. Mounting geological, archaeological, astronomical, anthropological and testimonial evidence indicates that a very great civilization flourished on this planet as late as twelve thousand years ago, and was destroyed by a cataclysmic event, universally referred to as "The Flood," between 11,000 and 9,000 B.C.3 Furthermore, compelling data suggest that this civilization was Black, centered in Upper Egypt and may indeed have been interplanetary in its scope and influence.4 The foregoing theory, in one form or another, has garnered the support of a broad cross-section of scientists, scholars and other authorities. In this issue of MA'AT, we shed further light on this view by presenting startling evidence, long suppressed in this country by NASA, of what appear to be very ancient man-made structures on the moon! In the August issue of MA'AT, we revealed that a growing number of professionals in physics, engineering, cartography, mathematics, systems science, anthropology, architecture, art, history, theology and other fields have done massive research and published thought-provoking articles and books on what appear to be pyramids, a sphinx ("the face") and other structures on Mars. Since the August issue of MA'AT, a new book, "The Case For The Face" A compilation of papers by a number of scientists, has been published on the Martian face.5 We now know that Mars is not the only celestial body that appears to have evidence of "man-made" structures. The Moon does too. What's more, scientists in the former Soviet Union first published this information in the 1960's and it was a hot topic of discussion on college and university campuses in their country at the time. While the Soviets revealed the discoveries, NASA also photographed them but refused to publicize their findings. Hence, even today, over thirty years later, NASA is mute about the apparently unnatural structures on the moon. Fortunately, there are two books that provide photographs of these extraordinary structures on the Moon (See drawings at our website) and give some insight as to their discovery, location and dimensions. David H. Childless, Extraterrestrial Archaeology: Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, Stelle, Illinois, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994. Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder, Psychic Discoveries, New York, Marlowe & Company, 1997. The publisher of "Psychic Discoveries" has granted MA'AT permission to reprint an excerpt from the book in this issue of the newsletter. We would highly recommend that our subscribers obtain Psychic Discoveries, which is an updated edition of Psychic Discoveries Behind The Iron Curtain, first published in 1970. This extraordinary book is promoted as "The Iron Curtain Lifted -- all new revelations of long suppressed, explosive secrets and discoveries from Prague to Moscow to Siberia." The revelations in Psychic Discoveries range from medical breakthroughs, superlearning programs and mind control techniques to "Eyeless sight," Kirlian photography and time machines. Ostrander, Schroeder and other scholars are urging us to view history from a broader, more conventional perspective, just as our ancestors did before the rise, spread and triumph of Western thought. Author William Fix provides a succinct recapitulation of the traditional view of world history: "The legends of humanity the world over are remarkably consistent in describing the oldest peoples and nations as having what seemed godlike powers. Consistently we hear of vanished nations and gods who could travel and build at will, who lived in another age of the earth terminated by disaster, and who set cultural patterns that endured for thousands of years. Long con- sidered by western anthropologists as the fantasies of children, the substance of the ancient legends has been increasingly supported by discoveries in many fields.4" Is it possible that a very advanced, worldwide, antediluvian civilization, centered in Upper Egypt and Nubia, sent astronauts to the moon? Increasing evidence suggests that such voyages did take place in remote antiquity. The following excerpt from Psychic Discoveries lends credence to this theory. Footnotes 1 Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder, Psychic Discoveries, Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, New York, Marlowe & Company, 1997, Illus. 25 (caption). 2 David H. Childless, Extraterrestrial Archaeology: Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, Stelle, Illinois, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994, p. 33. 3 D.S. Allan & J.B. Delair, Cataclysm: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C., Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1997. Paul LaViolette, Earth Under Fire: Humanity's Survival of the Apocalypse, Schenectady, New York, 1997. 4William R. Fix, Pyramid Odyssey, Urbanna, Virginia, Mercury Media, Inc. 1984. The Search For Lost Origins, edited by Atlantis Rising, Livingston, Mt. Atlantic Rising Books, 1996. (Special attention should be devoted to parts two, three and six of the book). 5 We do not yet have information regarding the publisher of this book; however, specifics regarding this may be obtained by calling 1-800-228-8381. 6 Fix, Op. cit., p. 212. -------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted From: Psychic Discoveries by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder (Marlowe & Company: New York, 1997) http://www. superlearning.com WHO ELSE WENT TO THE MOON? "There's something very odd on the moon. Russia's Luna 9 first photographed what seemed to be artificially-made structures. America's Orbiter 2 photographed them too. In Russia, space engineer Dr. Abramov gave us pictures and a complex mathematical analysis of these bizarre 'ruins.' He thought they were of startling importance. Today, new archaeological and scientific discoveries make these egnimatic? photos even more compelling. To check their authenticity we consulted our friend, Dr. Ivan Sanderson, UFO expert, former British intelligence officer, and science editor of Argosy. Sanderson's space-agency sources confirmed the photos were genuine. (Only later did we discover that NASA had classified hundreds of lunar photos of certain locations and refuses to release them to this day.) The photos taken by Orbiter 2 on November 20, 1966, over the moon's Sea of Tranquility show eight pointed spires shaped like the Washington Monument and Cleopatra's needle - the ancient Egyptian obelisk now in Central Park in New York. The sun was eleven degrees above the horizon so scientists could calculate the height of the structures from their shadows. The tallest "obelisk" is the size of a fifteen story building! The smallest of the group is the height of a large fir tree. In America, William Blair of the Boeing Institute of Biotechnology analyzed the arrangement of the strange structures and concluded that they were in triangular alignments with each other. The obelisks formed six isosceles triangles. That certainly couldn't have just happened by chance, he figured. Situated beside them, he noted a rectangular "depression" that looked like an excavation whose walls had eroded. It all looked like the work of intelligent beings. Blair called for an archaeological assessment to help unveil the mystery of what were dubbed "the Blair Cuspids." In Russia, Alexander Ambrov already had the archaeological approach in hand. Besides being a space engineer, he was also steeped in Egyptology and the geometry of the pyramids. When he looked at the configuration of the strange objects photographed by the lunar orbiters, bells went off. He began calculating. The configurations of the pyramids at Gizeh near Cairo can be set out precisely on something called in ancient Egypt, an "abaka" - a grid or table of forty-nine squares. Pyramids are arranged on this grid in a very specific way. Abramov applied the grid to the lunar structures. And felt the flush of discovery. The obelisks on the moon are arranged on this grid in the exact same pattern as the pyramids. The distribution of these lunar objects, states Abramov, is like the plan of the Egyptian pyramids Cheops, Chephren, and Mankura at Gizeh. The tips of the obelisks in this lunar 'abaka' occupy precisely the same points as the tops of the three great pyramids." This is the discovery Abramov pressed on us. Structures on the moon and the pyramids outside Cairo are built on the same precise geometric pattern! It was hard to imagine this was by chance. It was also hard to imagine what that might mean. With Sanderson, in Argosy (August 1970), we broke the news in the West. Abramov continued corresponding with Sheila for years. Then, more recently, a couple of bells went off in our heads. A few years ago, NASA consultant Richard Hoagland and his team brought wide attention to the supposed "Face On Mars." The Face isn't alone on Mars, Hoagland reported. There are other seemingly artificial structures. Articles and photos began circulating saying that these structures were arranged on the same pattern as monuments in ancient Egypt, and Britain. It sounded familiar. A bigger bell went off when Robert Bauval and Adrian Gilbert unveiled secrets about the pyramids hidden for thousands of years. In The Orion Mystery, they published results of a ten year investigation which makes a convincing case that a specific plan for the arrangement of the pyramids was created before the first was built, and was carried forward through the years by the great pharaohs. What's the plan? With great astronomical precision, the three pyramids are arranged to form a map of the three bright stars in Orion's belt. If they are right, and Ambrov's right, then the mystery is cloning. The pyramids in Egypt form a map of Orion. The obelisks on the moon in the same arrangement then also form a map of Orion- from earth's point of view. Is there a message? IS IT GETTING CROWDED ON THE MOON? Soviet probe Luna 9 landed at the Ocean of Storms on February 4, 1966. Ivan Sanderson examined the Luna photos we'd obtained. "There are two straight lines of equidistant stones that look like markers along an airport runway." he observed. "These circular stones are all identical, and are positioned at an angle that produces a strong reflection from the sun." Even stranger, each stone is incised with two perfect circles, one on each side. Luna shifted as it photographed so the Society had a double set of photos at different angles, allowing investigators to set up a 3-D stereoscopic view of the long "stone runway." One of the U.S.S.R.'s most prestigious scientists, Dr. S. Ivanov, inventor of stereo movies in the U.S.S.R. and winner of the Laureate State Prize (the Soviet equivalent of the Nobel Prize), and engineer A. Brukonenko published a startling analysis of these photos along with Abramov's data on the mysterious moon monuments in the Soviet magazine Technology for Youth (November 5, 1969). To their surprise the stone markers were spaced at precise, regular intervals. "The objects as seen in 3-D seem to be arranged according to definite geometric laws." Ivanov concluded. They were unquestionably "planned structures," and the pointed spires (obelisks), he said, were not natural formations but "Artificial structures of alien origin." "The moon's stones shout a message to mankind!" declared the Soviet analysts. The discoveries attracted serious attention in Russian universities, our professor friends told us. Sanderson speculated: "Is the origin of the obelisks on the earth and those on the moon the same?" What is the purpose of an obelisk anyway, and why did the ancients go to all the trouble of making them? We added our own wonderings. Could obelisks be some form of psychotronic generator related to flight? Recently translated Sanskrit astronautics texts reveal ancient humans had developed saucerlike flying craft call "vimanas." Could the ancients have reached the moon? Or did ancient astronauts travel to both moon and earth, leaving their unique signature and even guide maps on both locations? In his many years of correspondence with us, Dr. Abramov repeatedly emphasized, "The solutions to the mysteries of the moon, UFOs, and the early monuments of Britain like Stonehenge, can all be found in ancient Egypt." "This discovery [of alien moon structures] must be heralded as among the most important discoveries made by either the American or Soviet space program!" says David Hatcher Childless of the Russian analysis of these moon photos in his book Extra-terrestrial Archaeology. "But strangely enough . . . they have been ignored." Or have they? The enigma deepens. Childless's 1994 book makes public hundreds more Soviet and American space-agency and astronomical photos of the moon that reveal dozens of strange artifacts: Seeming pyramids, tunnels, bridges, moving objects that appear and disappear. And there's more -- official NASA photos of large cigar-shaped and saucer-shaped, glowing UFO's traveling near the moon in and out of its craters. Soviet cosmonauts are not the only ones seeing UFO's. American astronauts took many of these photos and films during Apollo missions. The first Apollo mission landed at the Sea of Tranquillity where the mysterious moon obelisks are located. Based on Russian space sources, Dr. Vladimir Azhazha claims, "Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But this message was never heard by the public - because NASA censored it." Armstrong denies ever seeing UFO's. Maurice Chatelain, former Chief of NASA Communications Systems, who has appeared in numerous UFO documentaries, was quoted in Nexus Magazine -- "Armstong saw two UFO's on the rim of a crater." He added," . . . all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin . . . The astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence." Nexus reports that Chatelain, in April, 1996, dropped the "bombshell revelation" that the Apollo Moon Mission found "several mysterious geometric structures of unnatural origin on the moon." It's hard to unravel the claims and counterclaims about UFO's. Some American astronauts speak readily to sighting UFO's as jet pilots. But they deny seeing them in space. All except one, perhaps. Former astronaut, Dr. Brian O'Leary, speaking at the International Forum on New Science in Fort Collins, Colorado, September 18, 1994, declared flatly, "We have contact with alien cultures . . ." He believes the suppression of fifty years of data was orchestrated by the secrecy apparatus of interlocking intelligence and security agencies. "The Cosmic Watergate" he said, "of UFO, alien, mind-control, genetic engineering, free-energy, antigravity-propulsion, and other secrets will make Watergate and Irangate appear to be kindergarten exercises. But," he asserts, "the truth will and must be known eventually." Is the moon a UFO base for earth reconnaissance? Were Apollo astronauts, while collecting moon rocks, actually extraterrestrial archaeologists examining "ruins?" Is this the most explosive secret of all -- half a century of suppressed evidence of alien encounters and activities? Could the big Soviet-American push into psi research have another facet-motivated not only by the Cold War, but also by the urgent need to cope with ETs? In 1966, Dr. Courtney Brown claimed in his book Cosmic Voyage that for years, U.S. intelligence and defense agencies have been using remote-viewing clairvoyants to try to track UFOs visiting earth. Could the costly Soviet Tesla projects and the U.S.'s HAARP-- which use the ionosphere for surveillance of space around the planet and deep inside the earth and oceans - have another, more covert defense purpose? With the Cold War over and many missiles dismantled, could these tracking systems also be monitoring UFOs? Could the hypersecret Soviet development of psychotronic weapons have been not only for defense against Westerners, but against the superior technology of ETs? On March 21, 1996, a briefing was held at Washington's National Press Club, about thirty-year old "suppressed evidence" of manufactured artifacts on the moon. Richard Hoagland and a panel of scientists revealed that photos and film of lunar artifacts have undergone four years of sophisticated analysis and enhancement by the latest scientific and computer technologies -- methods that did not exist thirty years ago when the photos were taken. "These official mission films provide compelling scientific evidence for the presence of ancient artificial structures on the moon," says Hoagland. Computer-enhanced photos of Apollo 12 astronaut Alan Bean on the moon supposedly show he's actually standing in front of a huge domed tier -- a "ruin" towering above and behind the lunar module Intrepid. NASA has been airbrushing photos, according to Hoagland. The basic purpose of the Apollo program, he claims, "was to send Americans directly to these ruins, to record them on film and to bring back physical evidence (including manufactured artifacts) for analysis on earth." If that's true, why was there such a massive cover-up? Hoagland believes thirty years ago people weren't ready to digest the news about the moon's surface- "Hard physical ruins left by a race of obviously superior beings," he says, would have "collapsed civilization." As we speed toward the millennium, there's a growing consensus from a host of sources that humanity is heading for a rendezvous with destiny - heading toward acknowledging the wondrous and terrifying news. "We are not alone" - heading towards the shift to "galactic consciousness." Recent archaeological discoveries, revelations of Native American spiritual leaders, chronicles of many ancient cultures from India to South America - all point to centuries-old visitations by extraterrestrials. And the prediction that the time has come for them to return here again. Humanity's own origins are shrouded in mystery...."

Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT news
USA - Friday, November 05, 1999 at 00:47:40 (EST)

For those of you who haven't read my previous article, here it is, read and absorb the REAL TRUTH!Why is it after 5 milliom years the Black man and woman are on the bottom of the world. We cant blame the white man because in our own countries we are still largely on the tribal level.We still practice slavery as is known all over the world.Just look at the Sudan,Ghana,Uganda,and Mauritania and see how the Black man is still selling each other along with his women and children. Some of our primitive tribes try to exterminate each other!!! Look at the Hutu and Tutsi tribes. They kill each other's women and children while the White man is the policeman of the world. Whenever something goes wrong in the world it is the White man who is called on to fix the atrosity.Even though two thirds of the poor are either white or latino it is the back man who turns our cities into African jungles. We have been on this Earth 5 million years and it is the White man who is envied for his magical accomplishments. The non-literate brothas and sistas in Africa could never have created the automobile,airplane,computer,electricity,radio,telivision,microscope,telescope or anything remotely close to it.can yo imagine our people putting a man on the moon? We have to watch the White man do it while he generously calls us all equal.The White man has integrated blacks into his schools and ruined education for white children.How can these white children learn with loud,roudy,ebonics speaking,lazy,rap loving niggas who act like savages.Yet the White man still calls us his equall.He gives us affirmative action to get into his universities because we are not asians who are highly motivated and much smarter than brothas and sistas.One in three young black males is in trouble with the law because we are such lawless barbarians.Yet despite this the White man has integrated us into his society which we destroy. Look at South Africa under the Black man.It has the highest murder rate and rape rate in the world. See why the White man had apartheid. He knew that when the Black man came to power we would destroy South Africa and we did.Many Black children dont know who their daddy is but the White man gives the Black women welfare to feed her children that will grow up to drag down America just as bad as their parents.Yet the White man calls us his equall.How could he be so stupid?The Japanese would never call us equall. Some of us claim to have created civilization yet we cant hardly speak English and we destroy every beautiful city we move to. When the White man went to Afica he saw us living in tribes and eating each other.Yet the White man calls us equall.Why?I guess he feels sorry for us.We murder,rob,rape,and assault 1 million 500 thousand whites each year. No matter we have racism! Between our crime,welfare costs,and uncivilized African jungle behvior we should be discriminated against!!!!!!!!! I am not on welfare, I collect SSI. (Just to set the record straight)

Thutmos Turner
Compton, Ca USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 22:16:30 (EST)

Thutmos all your lazy self does is write messages on this site all day. Are you at home on welfare all day? As for whites making up the majority of welfare recipients we dont need it to support fatherless children like your race. You call whites trailor trash but you make them look good considering you can hardly spell and leave messages on this site all day.

Brad
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 21:58:20 (EST)

Thutmos all your lazy self does is write messages on this site all day. Are you at home on welfare all day? As for whites making up the majority of welfare recipients we dont need it to support fatherless children like your race. You call whites trailor trash but you make them look good considering you can hardly spell and leave messages on this site all day.

Brad
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 21:58:19 (EST)

Bravo and well put bro. Danquah and bro. X-Dude.......HOTEP to you my brothers. The sad thing is that these savages actually believe that crap. I only respond in order to point our more less informed brothers on the real statistics which I have stated before: 100% of the mass murders = white males; 100% of the serial killers = white males; 100% of the prosecutions for child molestation = white males; South Central Los Angeles is constantly attack by the white/jewish media but there are more crimes committed in Korea town that in all of so called South Central Los Angeles; 64,000 more crimes were committed by white (non-hispanic) juviniles every year than are committed by all other races combined; Blacks and white commit crimes "EQUALLY" in relation to their percentage of the population.....Black people are simply prosecuted and convicted disproportionalely. Over 90% of the people on "welfare" in the state of California alone are "whites". We are not responsible for them not being Black....it is not our fault! Only a coward would use someones name spread they racist Anti-Black hate. Brothers, I wonder if the moderator should not simply start screaning the anti-Black hate. Let the trailer trash barbarians mask their fear of our self actualization somewhere else. We don't need it. What do you think (Black people only)? THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 21:42:54 (EST)

READ THIS: Se alafia ne? One thing I have seen is the incessant barage of characters on this website posting nothing more than mere opinion...White Supremacist opinions at that. I can tell by the words of such Anti-Black Egyptian proponents that they either exist in a state of ignorance or in a realm of biased denial and conscious neglect. To present credible information to support a theory is one thing, but to engage one's self in a child's play game of immature insults, name-callings and character assasinations is a horse of a different nature. As my beloved brothers Shekem aka Menes and X-Dude have pointed out, when one runs dry on supporting evidence...one seeks to support bullshxt. This is what this guestbook has been cluttered with lately. Some time ago, I, like others here, defended the Black Egyptian stance with supportable evidence from OUTSIDE of Kemet, notably from the rest of African. However, those only bent on bravado and "bashing illerate negroids" have conveniently overlooked such claims and statements like an elephant would the world and reality of bro. ant. Eventhough, I believe outside evidence is valuable to concluding as to what realm and plane Kemet and the Kamau (Egyptians) fall in. Africa provides us with substantial material to connect Kemet with the African world and reality; so much proof does Africa hands that proposing a cultural diffusion theory would seem too elementary and simple to resolve the issue. This bulk of evidence is usually spoken by Euro-centric "scholars" in a casual, roundabout and tongue-in-the-cheek way, I guess either they are aware of the potential of such a linkage and are afraid of recognizing it or they are so biased in thought that Africa seems like the least likely place to look. Yet, the fact remains, as I was talking to an elder of mine, that there is a "new blood" of African researchers, scientists and scholars whom, in the next millenium, will become more aggressive and creative in expressing the true African experience. This vanguard of ancestor-inspired warrior/scholars will redefine our scientific theories and methods, in accordance with the senses of their forebearers, and initiate a renaissance in thought, study and most importantly, RECLAMATION. Aware of these young and brash upstarts, the Western academia is launching a new initiative to nip at the bud the productive flowering which is inevitable. Yes, "Ivy League" and company, knowing their backs are ever more forced against the wall and that they are being put into a unknown defensive posture, figure that a new offensive move is the most feasible tactic, which is what we are witnessing here with this un-educated group of propogandists invading African sanctity. Have you ever wondered why Skip Gates is now all of a sudden motivated to produce a "tourist guide" of Africa, which in content attempts to separate Kemet, Nubia (Kush) and Ethiopia from Africa, while at the same time, tries to demonize and scrutinize those Africans you can not put a "white-face" on? What was Mr. Gates trying to prove, and much subtly, trying to imply? Is this not a Euro-centric ruse of using a Negro to stop the rise of Black Reclamation intellectuals? The new millenium is approaching and interest in African is increasing as the Western world shifts into high gear its Globalization plans. Young Black minds like those who visit this website are dramatically becoming a serious threat to these Western globalized hegemony plans and they MUST not be afforded the luxury to proliferate! This is what the invaders in here are saying. To further the cause of our Liberation, we must stop being "rote" learners and become radical poineers listening to the ancestral drums that beat in our hearts and minds as we search for more innovative ways to our Redemption. It is up to us! We need more effective Black renegade archeologists (who will explore West Africa and other places), tenacious anthropologists ( who research the world's end to tell humanity story in a true light), intuitive historians (who can present the facts in a TIMELINE fashion), brilliant mathematicians (who can redefine the concept of time and document the mathematical genius of Africa), skilled metaphysicians (who are capable of telling African cosmologies and hero-stories) and we need ad infinitum. Understand these needed people can not perform effectively, efficiently and progressively without the Proper Funding for their endeavors, so therefore, we need ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT on a collective level to address the affairs relevant to African survival and resurrection. What do Europeans have to lose in remaining adamant to a subconsciously professed African (Negro) inferiority, that is preached symbolically. You didn't catch it. If these Negroes began to band together and channel their research and resources collective into a coherent fusion, all plans of our imposed hierarchy is null and void. Blacks will began to bring the yoke of Euro-centric orientation such as the Mercator map with its special emphasis of placing Europe in centralized location as the sun is in this helio-centric "SOLAR" system. The Negroes will not call next year the year 2000, in agreement with our Euro-centric structuring of time, but it will be for Diasporan Africans...the next year 441 M.P. (Maafa Period). They overthrow us like the Visigoths did Rome with the rest of the northern "dumb blond" barbarians. Our standards of civilization, our method of name things into existence, our process of paper ordained codes, our priviledge status in this global apartheid caste system, our rape of natural resources to further our aims, our institutionalized concept of progress of Third World countries, our ideas of literacy, our explanation of the world and our very life blood will all be forever a nasty memory. This what Europeans would lose, but it is impossible for Europeans to overstand this fact since the world is nice and "right" as it now is. Odabo! My people be strong and continue to hear the ancestors.

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 20:49:28 (EST)

People coming on this board, and taking someone else's name and going on posting white racist crap just shows that deep down, they believe that the Ancient Egyptians/Kemetians were a Black and African people. And they feel powerless to do anything about that. They also come in here with the insults and put downs which shows that they are very concerned about what we think...and they don't like it. If these posters (including some white scholars, some in white society etc..) feel that they can't control our thinking, then the only thing they are left to do is insult us to feel power that they don't have.

X-Dude
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 19:27:00 (EST)

Why is it after 5 milliom years the Black man and woman are on the bottom of the world. We cant blame the white man because in our own countries we are still largely on the tribal level.We still practice slavery as is known all over the world.Just look at the Sudan,Ghana,Uganda,and Mauritania and see how the Black man is still selling each other along with his women and children. Some of our primitive tribes try to exterminate each other!!! Look at the Hutu and Tutsi tribes. They kill each other's women and children while the White man is the policeman of the world. Whenever something goes wrong in the world it is the White man who is called on to fix the atrosity.Even though two thirds of the poor are either white or latino it is the back man who turns our cities into African jungles. We have been on this Earth 5 million years and it is the White man who is envied for his magical accomplishments. The non-literate brothas and sistas in Africa could never have created the automobile,airplane,computer,electricity,radio,telivision,microscope,telescope or anything remotely close to it.can yo imagine our people putting a man on the moon? We have to watch the White man do it while he generously calls us all equal.The White man has integrated blacks into his schools and ruined education for white children.How can these white children learn with loud,roudy,ebonics speaking,lazy,rap loving niggas who act like savages.Yet the White man still calls us his equall.He gives us affirmative action to get into his universities because we are not asians who are highly motivated and much smarter than brothas and sistas.One in three young black males is in trouble with the law because we are such lawless barbarians.Yet despite this the White man has integrated us into his society which we destroy. Look at South Africa under the Black man.It has the highest murder rate and rape rate in the world. See why the White man had apartheid. He knew that when the Black man came to power we would destroy South Africa and we did.Many Black children dont know who their daddy is but the White man gives the Black women welfare to feed her children that will grow up to drag down America just as bad as their parents.Yet the White man calls us his equall.How could he be so stupid?The Japanese would never call us equall. Some of us claim to have created civilization yet we cant hardly speak English and we destroy every beautiful city we move to. When the White man went to Afica he saw us living in tribes and eating each other.Yet the White man calls us equall.Why?I guess he feels sorry for us.We murder,rob,rape,and assault 1 million 500 thousand whites each year. No matter we have racism! Between our crime,welfare costs,and uncivilized African jungle behvior we should be discriminated against!!!!!!!!!

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 17:38:17 (EST)

They just don't get it! The trailer trash just don't get it! We know you are afraid! You are a tiny minority that is in "psychological control" through the use of terror and systems of oppression. This makes you extremely vulnerable! We know you are afraid of the FACT that your system of racism white supremacy is coming to an end. That is why they come here absolutely paranoid about "WHAT WE THINK OF OURSELVES AND OUR OWN ANCESTORS". I do not hate all white people, and anybody that does is making a mistake. I do hate the white system of oppression, exploitation, and all those that support it (Black Uncle Tom SAMBOs and white alike). My comments are directed to them and them alone (regardless of their numbers). The main thing these white supremist "SLIMEING" this site and the Earth don't understand is that WE DON"T CARE WHAT THEY THINK. This site is for us to discuss our people alone. There is nothing these savages can do to effect how we think of ourselves once we have been exposed to the truth. I am a witness to this for I can say the I was an unconscious uncle tom at one time. Now, I will give my life for my Black people. Now, enough with the blonde hair blue eye mummy....we have laughed enough! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 16:01:46 (EST)

Correction in the third sentence: And it is fear of the end of their vicious system of exploitation that keeps them from admitting that the Egyptians were BLACK.

Shekem
Age: 20, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 14:40:02 (EST)

Devil's Advocate: First of all Sherry claimed that the Egyptians were Nordics with Blonde Hair and Blue eyes. Secondly, Arabs are considered "dark whites". And it is fear of the end of their vicious system of exploitation that keeps them from admitting that the Egyptians were white. As long as they can say that the Egyptians were "dark whites" they will always maintain the false idea of racial superiority with which they have fooled so many people. And yes they have fooled many people. The evidence that was presented clearly indicates that the Egyptians were black. Had this not been a racist world, and we were truly interested in classifying the differences in humans, we would have to reach the conclusion that the Egyptians were Black. By white people owns standards they are Black. Why is it that the white "scholars" are now changing the criteria for racial identification when they realize that it could mean that we started civilization. Lastly, ever heard of the saying that says you must love yourself before you can love someone else. Well, we (I know I) don't teach hate, I teach love for self. If this world were not turned into a world filled with racism where a group of people are forcefully subjugated socially and worse psychologically, for the the economic benefit of another, we could just go on and focus on the betterment of human kind. Right now it is one step at a time. Had this not been a racist world everyone would acknowledge their debt to their ancestors and the original people of this earth. This is where we are going. Believe me the process has begun and it won't be long now. All the efforts of the racist are doing nothing but prolonging the inevitable!

Shekem
Age: 20, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 14:36:46 (EST)

Even should white people want to "attack" Africa, there is no need. (See Rwanda) Obviously the messages you were responding to were juvenile, but you revealed your true self in your racist response. To proclaim that "black" people were the organizers of the beginning of civilization based on the "evidence" contained on this page is just as irresponsible as the traditional teachings that you are trying to undermine. No conclusive evidence has been related on this page. Self-promotion is not a virtuous trait. Sure, if someone WANTS to believe in the main assertion of this page, they could be convinced. But what has been presented here are not unbiased historical facts. Instead, it is one-sided propoganda. It is not surprising that contradictory commentors are whisked away to "other" venues. It's called "isolationism". "Let us think what we want to think. If you don't agree, go somewhere else." Question: Why would white people prefer Ancient Egyptians be of Arab decent? THE BIG QUESTION: Do you look forward to the coming-together of all races to pull for the common good of human beings? If yes, then you will welcome opposing views and refrain from making controvertable assertions that black people created civilization, and calling those assertions facts.

Devil's Advocate <dadvocate@hotmail.com>
Age: 27, Houston, TX USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 13:20:49 (EST)

To Englishman: Where did you become familiar with a double negative? Could it be with your "ebonics" background?Perhaps it would be in the best interest of you to educate your own people. Here are some examples of improper spellings, incomplete sentences, etc. I will start with TUTMOS TURNER: "blond hari blue eyes" ( that should be blonde hair, improper spelling) , disrespecful (again,Thutmos's spelling error), "monkeys" (Thutmos is implying more than one, so that should be spelled:monkies)"Back to the caves of Caucausus mountains...." (thutmose's error is that , this is not the proper way to begin a sentence) , "This is just incredible!" (Thutmos's error again: where is his noun/subject of his sentence? What is incredible?) , "Splaughtered" (again,Thutmos's spelling error.). Now as for Clegg himself: "And we will certainly not tolerate it here" (Never begin a sentence with "and") , "because they know that to mention africa...." (again, Clegg needs to understand that you cannot begin a sentence with "because" either.). For Brian Clegg: "congradualations" (he needs to check his spelling). As for Laila: "this message is for thutmos ..." (she nees to refresh her knowledge of capital letters when beginning a sentence, and placing capital letters when writing someones name). As for Kwabena Danquah: "nationbuilding" (Nation building is TWO words, not ONE), "socializatioin" (Mr.Danquah needs to check his spelling on this one, it is clearly, incorrect). As for Shekem: "trueth" (he needs to learn to spell correctly as well, for this is also in error). There are numerous spelling errors here, as well as incomplete sentences, run-ons, and of course lies and myths,etc ,etc...I could go on and on. I do find it quite interesting that more than half of you (especially, Thutmos Turner, because he has the MOST errors of all of you) are trying your best to teach Myth as true history..yet, half of you can't even spell, or write a proper sentence. what more could anyone have expected from a bunch of morons. Take care, I hope this lesson is valuable to you all :o)

Helping Illiterate Negroids <Who think they can teach myth as history>
USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 13:11:34 (EST)

I hate to inform the night prophet but Black people don't talk like that. It made a fool of itself! Why should I wish I were white? I can't think of a single reason. They hate themselves, so they attempt to project that feeling on everyone else. Why would I want to be genetically recessive? This is typical of the white supremist trailer trash. Here we are on this site learning about ourselves and minding our own business and the trailer trash calcified Pineal Melanin deficient get scared because we realize that we don't need them for anything. We created and they destroyed...the same as they are miserably failing at here. Why else should they care about what we think obout ourselves. They attack Africa because they are in fear! Its pathetic. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 10:34:18 (EST)

God I wish I be White.I'z wish aficans wont still livin in tribes while da white man be able to explore outa space.

Thutmos Turner
Comton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 09:04:56 (EST)

God I wish I be White.I'z wish aficans wont still livin in tribes while da white man be able to explore outa space.

Thutmos Turner
Comton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 09:04:25 (EST)

Hail, Brethtren and Sister of American Negro, I just like to going to tell you about my feeling and our black slaves of culture... I believe that ye are lost tribes of Israelite slaves. I am support the Nation of Islam, Black muslims group only... it was affected on me as healed.. i felt no more being inferior myself becuz of black muslim of signs to white and some black americans now .. that why, I wanted all black return to the black judah unity in the last day.. the world' eyes and white americans's eyes will see the Son of Men being black nation unity of One God as the rise of the Black Messiahs in america.. the Blacks , you know that You are the prophets. Who are the prophet? ye art the true prophets only like Moses the Prince of Egypt. You are the Aneglic Lords and Angelic princes/ princess.... You are the servants[slaves] of the Most High God over all the earth. The reason why, Because Martin Lurten King, He who setted you free from the House of Bondage among white Christians from the Great North Star[America]. the One[Martin L. king} Who did scattered you among white communites of america now it called BABYLON CITY. I believe that M.L.K , He is a False prophet[Dream] rather than Malcolm X thats what I thought.. You know that you and I are still un-american citizens. This America is still exist racists and still critze on black .. and White peoples always won't hiring more black for jobs... Even today, those are Many white Churches who going to blame on black as cursed on black, not blame on white [ such as kkk, rascit hate groups, various white groups ]. They [whites] don't care about white hate groups or never mentioned against white kkk and hate groups by any white churches.. You know and admit that this is actual fact... like in the days of Moses and Jonah saw the enemies of the Black Israelite slaves in America... White chirstians are false promise to you [black peoples] for a peace and saviour... They are white lies.. Hey Don't worry about Egypt, anything .. Don't look on africa ..Africa is really nothing do with black americans. Africa won't help or work with Black america being unity as nation .. there in africa , Arabs are still hatred africans and Africans are still opessed with Arabs as well alike as in america white are still opessed blacks today ...... Hey let forget about them that their problem solves.... let you and I work together black unity as Nation than your brethren against my brethren that which whites and pale arabs set it you and me by divide as in africa though. Ye are my black brethen, our Flesh, our Bones , and our Blood of Black Jesus. where is your Mightly Gracious unto us.... Let you and I need to learn forget and forgiven our brethren the nation in america.. becuz we do still love you all our brothers and sister of ancestoral slaves.. Let you and I work out our solve problem to overcome white americans and even world.... If you don't want to into black unity .. because you are still inferior and Shameful, that is big true! we will escape from this is your wrath come on your slave the brethren and sisters even worse than ever! better now go work together with us as being black nation to saviour all the blacks out of hands of white christians .. in America, such as mexico, latio americans, asian-americans became rebellious against white goverment for their right and they want be freedom from white ruler... they want to get their own culture and teach to their chidlren by their won culture... white chirstian are now their time is end and end and end soon... our Black borthers and sister better think twice about it before eneimes blaphieme God of Blacks and come upon you by suffering, beating as hell until you die by hand of enemies like jesus's last days, Because you are Black period...... His servant the prophet........

the Night Prophet
Jer-usa-lem the Holy City of America, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 04:06:00 (EST)

Brothers and sisters, we have been "SLIMED" again by the presence of paranoid (did I spell that right?) white supremist calcified Pineal Gland Melanin deficient trailer park trash white people. Well put Shekem, these BARBARIC SAVAGE killer things are walking around thinking this is civilization! In actuality, this is just the best the impotent white boy do for now. I believe it is the best they will ever achieve for as presented earlier.....their numbers are going through the toilet. The whites really running things who are polluting and depleting the atmosphere don't care for they are making trillions of the white god (THE DOLLAR) while genetically recessive TRAILER PARK TRASH like Brian, lesson 4 the Balck englishman, a legitimate question, Advocate, Sherry (thing), Iskander, , PRO TRUTH, etc. put on sun block #15 and "BAKE" themselves to death trying to look BLACK. The joke is on the trailer park trash people. The only reason they are here is their pure "FEAR" of our knowing ourselves. Too late trailer park trash! The knowledge of self is all powerful and we have becaome self aware. In the process we look at the Melanin deficient and wonder why they can't feel unless they are killing something. 100% of mass murder, 100% of serial killers, 100% of child molestation convictions; genocide to the Native American Indians = white males; Genocide in South Africa (apartheid); Genocide in Australia = white boys. Bombs and nuclear bombs designed to kill. The Jerry Springer show....and the savages call this civilization. This is a dark pariod the is about to end!!!!!!!! And they call this civilization. I applaud the fear of the trailer trash SAVAGE killer things. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 02:27:22 (EST)

Raping the earth, polluting the air, destroying animal species not because it was needed but because it was wanted. You call that civilized. Isn't circumcision sexual mutalation? Would you call the legal murder of thousands of people on death row every year civilized? How about the fact that you kill thousands through second hand smoke? You think you're more civilized because you don't have to see the people you kill? How about the sanctions on Iraq that kills millions of man, women and children. Death by starvation of millions to appease your unlimited want. Are you great because you stole land and had others build the nation you now benefit from? Are you great because you build weapons of mass destruction? Or maybe because you've caused diseases that are unknown to many.All those who wrote derogatory remarks about the original people, I know you are AFRAID. This is why you are here. This is why you want to put in words to discourage our efforts. Your numbers are dwindling to nothing, you have effectively ensured your death by depleting the ozone. The End of Western Civilization is near and you can see it. Babylon will fall. If you think about it, spiritualy, you are the equivalent of the devil. According to the Bible, who is now in charge of the world? But not for long. The devil has done a lot of things that blind ones see as being great. But you see the TRUTH has returned. You are like a virus that has infected the earth, we are the here with the medication that will purge you from this earth. For almost 200,000 years we had peace. You see, building monuments doesn't define the greatness of humans. Civilization is living harmoniously, working with nature, ensuring balance, being spiritually entuned. As for Advocate, Sherry, Iskander, Brian, PRO TRUTH, and whoever else wrote anything against us, I make you a promise. I guarantee your children will one day regret that their ancestors so evil and they will honor, respect, and love the original people to whom their debt is immeasurable!!! We can put a wager on it that our children's children will have to pay. We both know your downfall is inevitable!!!

Shekem
Age: 20, USA - Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 01:07:26 (EST)

MONKEYS BEAT MONGOLOIDS, NEGROIDS, AUSTRALOIDS, CAUCASOIDS TO NEW WORLD ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________(http://www.clark.net/pub/ogas/evolution/FAQ_Primates.html) The radiation of the anthropoids began 35-40 mya when the New World Monkeys (also called the platyrrhines) separated from the others. (Humans came to the New World only about 15,000 years ago.) They are the only non-human primates in the New World and live as far north as Mexico, and as far south as Argentina. No monkey has crossed the Andes, so there are no monkeys on the west coast of South America. But how did the New World monkeys get to the New World? South America has been separated from Africa for more than 65 million years—longer than the 35-40 mya New World monkey divergence date. That means South America has been an island much longer than monkeys have been around—so how did the monkeys get here? The "rafting hypothesis" is the most highly regarded theory about how they got here, and holds that monkeys island-hopped to the New World during the Oligocene, when the ocean was shallow and there were many islands. There are several fossils in South American that are very suggestive of a New World/Old World monkey common ancestor.

oo-oo-ah-ah we were first! <chimchim@sandiegozoo.com>
Age: 5, San Diego, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 20:53:59 (EST)

http://www.nbufront.org/html/MastersMuseums/JHClarke/Contemporaries/CheikhAntaDiop.html

X-Dude
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 20:35:47 (EST)

Let me also say that I am a Retard.

A legitimate question
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 20:07:36 (EST)

We're really good at tearing each other down, aren't we?

anonymous
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 17:50:17 (EST)

It appears that ancient Egyptians, regardless of what anyone thinks they looked like, were clearly superior to the black Africans inhabiting the rest of the continent to the south, who have the most unimpressive record of achievement in all of human existence (despite having a 200,000 year head start).

Legitimate observation
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 17:40:50 (EST)

A participant in this discussion recently quoted someone named ''Diap'' and claimed that racial diversity didn't begin until about 25,000 years ago, and before that, there were only black-skinned Negroes in the world. That means, Negroes had the whole world to themselves for over 200,000 years. Now my question is this: if Negroes have such a special talent for starting civilizations, WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING BETWEEN THE YEARS 250,000 B.C. TO 25,000 B.C??? They went over 200,000 years and what did they leave us? No monuments, no cities, no artifacts except the crudest, utterly primitive stone tools. What is the reason for such a shocking, utterly astonishing lack of achievement, which is unparalleled in human history? The first instinct will be to blame you know who, but how could white people be responsible if none existed? Can't blame slavery, can't blame colonialism..... With only black people in the world, this should have been a veritable utopia. You know, it's funny how the flowering of civilizations around the world coincides with the emergence of other racial types (brown, white, yellow, peoples who actually evolved rather than being caught in an evolutionary time-freeze like the Negroes, who apparently are the same as they always were). And it's funny how the greatest civilizations happened outside the tropical African homeland of the blacks. The funniest thing is this: we're supposed to believe the Negroes went 200,000 years creating nothing, then spawned other races, and then created these other races' civilizations for them, while creating none in their own homeland (tropical Africa)! Can someone explain this please????

A legitimate question
Age: Age, USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 17:23:28 (EST)

Mr.Clegg thanks for your response on the identity of the Ancient Egyptians. At least you tried to be intellectual in your response while many of your "soul brothers" acted like savages from some African tribe.No matter what the race of the Ancient Egyptians whites have been able to walk on the moon, while sadly many Africans are still on the tribal level in 1999.Slavery exists in a few African countries such as Sudan, Mauritania, Ghana, and Uganda.The perverted sexual mutilation of black women still exists as well as primitive African tribes. In Dinesh D'Souza's book The End of Racism Mr.D'Souza is curious about what other people thought about Africans hundreds of years ago. He had heard the afrocentric claims and wanted to see if blacks were truly the ingenious race they claimed to be.He first looked at the writings of Ibn Khaldun who was the most famous Arab historian of all time.After travelling through Africa Ibn Khaldin reached the conclusion that "black Africans were close in character to dumb animals". Other Arab and Chinese writers were equally as harsh in describing the primitive natives as well.Even today the world is shocked by tribal violence in Africa as well as the slavery and sexual mutilation of women.Certainly the Egyptians would admire the acconplishnets of whites such as being able to explore outer space while millions of negroes are on the tribal level waiting for civilization that will never come.In regards to the Egyptians I never said they had blond hair and blue eyes as some of your respondents have claimed.Rather I claimed there was a continuum in color ranging from the light tan complexion of the north to the dark brown seen in the south.I gave an example of Nefertiti as a light tan northerner as can be seen by her bust that was found.We know this is the bust of Nefertiti because in her portraits she is wearing the same didtinctive blue crown that no other queen has been seen wearing. Her husband Akhnaten had very unusual artwork made during his reign with almost character like facial features which were made in portrayals of people.I have seen Nefertiti's portrayal in artwork and she is drawn so silly looking that she does look negroid.In regards to Richard Poe in his book Black Spark White Fire, Poe had a interesting chapter called Wretched Kush where he admits the Egyptians thought their southern neighbors were savages.Poe also admits that most Greeks saw the Egyptians as very different physically from their southern neighbors.In regards to Frank Snowden he has been free to write whatever he feels like at lest for many many years just like Cheikh Anta Diop,John Jackson,George James and others. He did a great job of finding Greek authors who did not descride the Egyptians as having "black skins and wooly hair". These Greek authors such as Arrian,Manilius,and Flavios Philastratus,did not even describe the Egyptians as black but as a brown shade.All people who lived on the Meditteranian had light brown skins whether you look at the Greeks,the people on the island of Crete,the Syro-Palestinians or the Northern Egyptians.You admitted that the northern Egyptians were not negroid which is really my main concern since subsaharan negroes seem to always be described as savage by Europeans,Arabs,Persians,and Chinese as has been well documented.Shomarka Keita the negro bioanthropologst was discussed in Richard Poe's book.Here he claims that the Egyptians had more affinities with the other northeastern Africans than with Asians or Europeans.However, in his 1990 and 1992 studies he claimes the northern Egyptians have skulls that are intermediate between northern Europeans and blacks south of Egypt.He even says some northern Egyptians have skulls closer to Europeans than southern Egyptians.Dr. Keita claims microevlution is responsible for the differences in physical apearance between north and south Egypt.In Richard Poe's book he seems to still believe that the northern Egyptians had black skins despite their radically different skulls which in some instances are closer to Europeans according to his previous work in 1990 and 1992.His work can be found in the 1990 and 1992 American Journal of Anthropology. Now that he admitted the Northern Egyptians did not vaguely resemble negroes and in some instances had more European skulls it is quite obvious why the Egyptians had such a great civilization.Salima Ikram the foremost expert on mummies and Egyptian remains such as skeletons has written that the "northern Egyptians were a light brown in skin complexion".Yes the Pygmies had light brown skins but they are in a whole different region of Africa.The northern Egyptians on the other hand are light brown just like all people living on the Meditteranian.I dont claim the Egyptians look like a north European but many dont resemble you any more than they do me.In regards to Herodotus saying the Egyptians were "black skinned and woolly haired" I looked at his writing myself and he claimed not that the Egyptians were black but that the army of Sesostris was "black skinned and wooly haired".It is well known that the Egyptians used the Kushites for mercenaries.I had some people call me racist names for my discussion on the Egyptians but I surely dont care because I am on top and negroes are on the bottom of the world with no chance of coming up at all.

Bryan
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 14:16:16 (EST)

To Englishman: Where did you become familiar with a double negative? Could it be with your "ebonics" background?Perhaps it would be in the best interest of you to educate your own people. Here are some examples of improper spellings, incomplete sentences, etc. I will start with TUTMOS TURNER: "blond hari blue eyes" ( that should be blonde hair, improper spelling) , disrespecful (again,Thutmos's spelling error), "monkeys" (Thutmos is implying more than one, so that should be spelled:monkies)"Back to the caves of Caucausus mountains...." (thutmose's error is that , this is not the proper way to begin a sentence) , "This is just incredible!" (Thutmos's error again: where is his noun/subject of his sentence? What is incredible?) , "Splaughtered" (again,Thutmos's spelling error.). Now as for Clegg himself: "And we will certainly not tolerate it here" (Never begin a sentence with "and") , "because they know that to mention africa...." (again, Clegg needs to understand that you cannot begin a sentence with "because" either.). For Brian Clegg: "congradualations" (he needs to check his spelling). As for Laila: "this message is for thutmos ..." (she nees to refresh her knowledge of capital letters when beginning a sentence, and placing capital letters when writing someones name). As for Kwabena Danquah: "nationbuilding" (Nation building is TWO words, not ONE), "socializatioin" (Mr.Danquah needs to check his spelling on this one, it is clearly, incorrect). As for Shekem: "trueth" (he needs to learn to spell correctly as well, for this is also in error). There are numerous spelling errors here, as well as incomplete sentences, run-ons, and of course lies and myths,etc ,etc...I could go on and on. I do find it quite interesting that more than half of you (especially, Thutmos Turner, because he has the MOST errors of all of you) are trying your best to teach Myth as true history..yet, half of you can't even spell, or write a proper sentence. what more could anyone have expected from a bunch of morons. Take care, I hope this lesson is valuable to you all :o)

Lesson 4 the black Englishman
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 13:42:50 (EST)

To Sherry: SHAME ON YOU!!! While you are so busy trying to respond to the barrage of Black intellectuals' comments, you have failed in English 101. Your statement "you will never get no where" is grammatically incorrect, in that you use a double negative. I thought you White folk learned that as early as the 11th grade. SHAME ON YOU!!!

The Englishman
USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 12:32:28 (EST)

I am such a babbler. I am a racist, and I dont like the accomplishments of white people. I only wish Afrocentrism were true. It is a lie A BIG LIE concocted by my race. We cannot prove anything we post here. When we are confronted with truths we blast white people by calling them racist, barbaric, people, when in all actuality, I sit on my big butt waiting for my food stamps and disability check. I must run, its time to go grocery shopping, the mail just came!

Thutmose Turner
Compton, Ca USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 11:44:58 (EST)

The Sherry thing is BACK! Or should we call it Harman, Advocate, white trash, etc. The Sherry thing (is back from its Neo Nazi sh-t kicking Aryan white supremist hate site). Back with more stories about blonde hair blue eyed mummies. Funny how all these people sound the very same. More white supremist minority strategies of making themselves bigger and more together than they are. Sounds like a "B" horror movie. Blond hari blue eyes .....these mummies must have been neo nazi white supremist mummies! Back to the caves of the Caucausus mountains where you were sexually abusing animals. Neo nazi mummies! I needed a good laugh this morning Sherrie thing.....thank you. You are the joke of the internet! THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 10:42:07 (EST)

I dont know whether it is sad or just funny that you believe yourselves. First of all, Bryan Harman, Is right, Diop was not an "egyptologist". Didnt any of you know that? In reference to the mummies , the numerous mummies that have been found in Egypt, many "Egyptians" themselves were present at the archeological digs, as well as "white" people. RamsesII , did have RED hair, and he is on display in the Cairo Museum, King Hor, is also on display (a life size human bust) in the Cairo Museum which the Egyptians clearly depicted his blue eyes ...they made them out of saphfire stones. Within the walls of several different tombs within the pyramids, it WILL TELL YOU...about certain Pharoahs daughters' who had blonde hair and blue eyes. This is INSIDE the walls of the pyramids, something that no "so-called racist egyptologist" can change. Also, theres something that all of you afrocentists must understand , due to the fact that probably more than half of you have never even been to Egypt, let alone probably out of the USA, How can you make such allegations and accusations from your so called :"Diop" who is not even a egyptologist for one, and secondly, MANY EGYPTIAN citizens go along on these excavations (not just white people) and they experience the findings along with "white Egyptologists" first hand...and if you knew anything about TRUE Egypt, you should know that they have much respect for their ancient history, and for the ancient dead, that they would most likely "ban" anyone from studying in Egypt who would distort this information. You are really fools. Also, Egypt does not mean the "land of the blacks" , the Egyptians called "Sudan" the land of the blacks. So stop twisting facts, as well as evidence to fit your idealogy. Another subject I would like to touch upon is Aristotle. Afrocentrists claim he "sacked" the library in Alexandria, and stole history and everything knowledgeable from so called blacks. This is a blantant joke within itself. First of all, Aristotle he died 2 or 3 years before that library was even built! I see what you people are doing here. You are quoting words from other black afrocentrists, including diop, again, who was not even an egyptologist, and your painting this "rosey" picture of how you would like the past to be, and hopefully no one will look all of this information up , or hopefully no one will be aware of the real truth, and not question you...thus..making you think you are proving a point. However, your not. Have you ever been to egypt? Are you an Egyptologist? What is it that you call yourself? There is no conspiracy against black people, like you claim. I have been to Egypt, I have studied in Egypt for years, and I found that when I confront you with FACTS that you cannot answer due to your teachings of "myths" you call the race card...and you tell me to grow up? Please. When any of you start gathering the FACTS and archeological evidence, then you will see. If you keep reading the works of your "role model" diop, you will never get no where. If you really think there is some form of a conspiracy...I encourage any of you to go to Egypt for yourself. They do offer tours , which will be much more educational than any of the so -called "white mans history book". Then the truth will flourish, and you will see what fools you all have really been for falling for such lies. Once you get there, (if you can), like the old saying goes: it is all written on the wall. Then, you can take it or leave it. However, unlike the majority of you, Ive been there, and I know. In The Real Truth , Sherry

sherry
Philadelphia, Pa USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 10:19:53 (EST)

To: white Harmon and white Advocate person: In case you can't read, I would like to inform you that the moderator (brother Clegg) has just given you both another "LEGENDARY" kick in the ass! You have made fools of yourself with your blonde mummy antics. I think this would be an appropriate time and opportunity for the both of you white boys to repent and appologize. You have disgraced yourselves and your white race! PATHETIC!!!!!!! OH by the way Mr. white Harman person, brother Cheikh Anta Diop did not just have some sort of degree in physics as you attempted to distort the truth (typically). Brother Diop was a Physicist, a Linguist, a Carbon Dater, Anthropologist, etc. This man is renouned by Black and white scholars worldwide. You should lick the boots of every Black person you pass for this folly. When you come here, come in honesty not slander. We will meet you on any level you want to play. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 02:12:12 (EST)

TO: Bryan Harmon: This is a brief response to your comments. First in his book "Black Spark: White fire, Fire: Did ancient Black navigators civilize Europe?" White journalist Richard Poe devotes several chapters to the work of bioanthropologist Dr. Shomarka Keita. Dr. Keita's conclusion regarding the ancient Egyptians was that the indigenous Egyptians, who laid the foundation of civilization, were blacks. Poe also does an excellent critique on Frank Snowden and his distorted views. For years Whites refused to publish Snowden's work, so he finally decided to compromise himself. Yes the Egyptians were lighter than the Nubians, just as the Toucouleur are lighter than the Nigerians, but they are both of the same racial stock. Why is it that White people can accept dark Sicilians and Nordics as extremes of the White race, but they can't apply this reasoning to Africans. The bust of Nefertiti has no insignia on it whatsoever. There is no evidence as to whom it belongs. On the other hand, scores of temple carvings of her and her husband in the City of Akhetaton show them both to have been very Negroid. Some carvings even show her wearing her hair in cornrows. As for the physical types of the ancient Egyptians, I recommend that you read an article, "The Biological Relationship of The Ancient Egyptians to Other Populations," by Dr. Keith Crawford of Howard University. It appears in the new Journal of Pan African Studies that can be obtained by calling: (818) 677-3311. After presenting a diversity of data, the author concludes: "Studies of linkage disequilibrium and allelic variation at a mini-satellite locus suggests that Hamitic Africoids are descended from sub-Saharan Africans, the differences in trait probably due to genetic drift and environmental selection. Ancient Egyptian populations with 'non-Negroid" facial features are most similar to these modern Hamitic (Elongated Africoid) populations of Northeast Africa. Preliminary studies with Mitochondrial DNA also suggest affiliations with sub-Sharan Africans for ancient Egyptians and some modern Egyptian groups. Within an evolutionary paradigm, differences between Upper and Lower Egyptians once thought to be racially-influenced differences, can now be alternatively interpreted as clinal variation, an expression of environmental selection. The ancient Egyptians have limb proportions and other features of their stature that are the same as all other African populations but different from Caucasoids in Europe and Asia. These adaptations indicate a long period of evolution in tropical regions. Since Egypt is not in tropical Africa, these observations reinforce sub-Saharan Africa as the region of origin for the ancient Egyptians. Collectively, all of these data strongly support an African bio-historical affiliation for the ancient Egyptians and their closest relationships with other Africoids. The ancient Egyptians were most similar to populations inhabiting Northeast Africa, which included variants with Broad (Negroid), Elongated (Hamitic) and Nilotic facial traits." The following statement that we posted on October 13 provides responses to some of the other issues that you raised. A more scientific response was posted here on October 19, by "Blackfacts." It would also be worth reading: To Carl and Sherry: Most of our Black colleagues refuse to respond to White people who passionately condemn our contention that the ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. They believe that to attempt a debate with Caucasians on this issue is a useless dialogue of the deaf. We, on the other hand, believe that most White people are victims of a vast conspiracy promoted by scholars, scientists and politicians who have developed a "civilization" based on fiction. Part of this fiction is that Whites have been the harbingers of civilization since time immemorial, and that Blacks and other people of color have been their subordinates throughout history. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Hence, when you come to this site with your racist views, we are certain to respond. We believe that the falsification of history by White scientists and scholars has remained unchallenged for far too long. And we certainly will not tolerate it here. So, let's get it on! We'll start with you, CARL: It is absurd for you to claim that "no one denied Egypt is in Africa…just not Black Africa." I challenge you to find 10 books written by White Egyptologists who mention that Egypt is in Africa. They are in such denial that they cannot even tell the truth about geography. Why? Because they know that to mention Africa would suggest Blackness and the real origin of all African people, including the Egyptians. Secondly, you claim that the Egyptians "mixed with blacks" during the late period and that this was responsible for the decline of the country. This, too, is untrue. The Egyptians themselves traced their origin to the BLACK SOUTH- the land of Punt, modern day Somalia, Kenya and Uganda. Even racist white Egyptologists will admit that the early fossils and skulls of the predynastic Egyptians are "Negroid." The Black Egyptians later mixed with Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Roman, etc.-all of whom brought nothing but destruction and desecration of monuments, traditions and human beings. Finally, if Egypt were indeed a white (you say "blonde") civilization, why did White people cross the mountains and hills of Europe, sail across the Mediterranean into Africa and then cross miles of hot desert sands to begin civilization on another continent, yet they left no evidence of their brilliant civilization in Europe! Why? Because this never happened! The truth is that Black people founded Egypt long before Europeans even existed in the world. White journalist Richard Poe has said the following about the earliest White Egyptians: "Why is the racial identity of ancient Egypt such a sensitive issue? Perhaps because it touches on the question of who invented civilization: Whites or Blacks? When the pyramids were built, Europe was still a wilderness, peopled by cannibals and headhunters." We are not "inventing proof," Carl, White scholars and scientists have been doing so for two hundred years, and we, as Black people, are simply not going to tolerate this degradation of our people and our history any more. It must stop, now, as we enter the 21st Century. Now, as for you, Sherry: You stated that you do not understand what White people would gain from claiming the ancient Egyptians were White, if this were not so. Why would they lie about history? White scientists and scholars would lie about history for the perpetuation of the illusion of White supremacy. White supremacy dominates everything in this society (i.e., economics, education, labor, law, politics, religion, etc.) The distortion of history is just one component of this longstanding practice and tradition. The Egyptians had many slaves, some of whom were Black people from the south-the very south to which the Egyptians traced their origin. In centuries passed Europeans enslaved other Europeans, and no one questioned the fact that some White people enslaved other Whites. But, if Egyptians enslaved Nubians they must have been of a different race. This is nonsense. Both the Egyptians and Nubians were African people. As you will see below, in my brief reference to Egyptian mummies, the remains that you make reference to are totally inconclusive. There is no proof of the true identity of the mummies of Ramesis II and Queen Hatshepsut. Furthermore, Queen Hatshepsut was the granddaughter of the unquestionably Black queen Ahmose Nefertari, co-founder of the 18th dynasty. Hatshepsut's entire family was of Nubian origin. Moreover, have you seen the wall paintings of Queen Hatshepsut's expeditions to the African nation of Punt. The king and queen of Punt are clearly Black Africans. The peaceful relationship between the Egyptians and the Puntites resulted from the fact that the Egyptians traced their origin to Punt. We are well aware of the on again/ off again conflict between the Negroid Egyptians and the Black Nubians. Breasted, as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as "Black," when it meant no such thing. So all of that nonsense that you have quoted about "Blacks" not being able to cross into Egypt, etc. is a farce. Nahasi was a geographical name applied to certain peoples, tribes and nations south of Egypt. Remember, the people of Punt (modern day Somalia, Kenya & Uganda) were also south of Egypt and Black, but the Egyptians did not refer to them as Nahasi because they were in a different location (in East Africa and on the horn of Africa). In this vein, Cheikh Anta Diop has written: "Because of this inscription which marked off the border between the Meriotic Sudan and Egypt after the troubles of the Twelfth Dynasty, it is often concluded that this separated two distinct races, that the stela barred 'Blacks' from entering Egypt. Such a conclusion is a grievous error, for the term "Black" was never used by the Egyptians to distinguish the Meriotic Sundanese from themselves. Egyptians and Meroitic Sundanese belonged to the same race. They designated each other by tribal and regional names, never by epithets related to color, as in cases involving contact between a black race and a white race." Diop also adds: "Not one of the many modern texts is authentic that mentions the term 'Black' as if it had ever been used by the Egyptians to distinguish themselves from Negroes. Whenever these texts relate some fact reported by the Egyptians about 'Blacks' it is a distortion. They translate Nahasi by 'Blacks' in order to serve the cause. Strangely enough, the word Kushite becomes incompatible with the idea of 'Blacks' as soon as it refers to the first inhabitants who civilized Arabia before Mohammed; the land of Canaan, prior to the Jews (Phoenicia); Mesopotamia, prior to the Assyrians (Chaldean epoch); Elam; India, before the Aryans. This is one of the many contradictions that betray the specialists' fear of revealing facts they must have detected." Now the word Kemit, WHICH DOES MEAN BLACK, was used by the Egyptians to describe themselves; but the same Egyptologists who mistranslate Nahasi as Black claim that Kemit refers not to the people, but to the soil. We reject this nonsense out of hand. You mentioned Sesostris I and III and claim that they hated "the Blacks." Sherry, not only were these middle Kemit pharaohs of Nubian origin Nubia, but their sculptures depict them as unquestionably Black Africans themselves. Even some of their queens are shown wearing "Afro" hairstyles. What we have here is Black Egyptians at war with Black Nubians. You cannot expect us to believe that these Black Pharaohs referred to the lands south of Egypt as Black lands, when they called their own country, Egypt, "the place of the Black people." Nahasi does not mean Black. In the midst of all your citations, you also mentioned the pharaoh Ahmose, brother of Ahmose-Nefertari (also his queen) as saying "The Black is helpless. Even Harris and Weeks (no friends to Africentrists), who wrote "X-Ray The Pharaohs," admit that this pharaoh and his family were "genetically influenced by people of the south." They go on to say: "Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian…origin for Sequenenre (Ahmose's grandfather) and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is true, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stands in need of considerable re-examination." Now here you have two White Egyptologist acknowledging that Ahmose was Nubian, and yet, you insist that he despised "the Blacks." We reject your reasoning, Sherry, because it is the same preposterous thinking that has led to the illusion of a White (blonde, you claim) Egypt in the middle of Africa. Generally, when the Egyptians painted foreigners, they depicted them true to form; but when they painted themselves, they often depicted themselves as reddish brown-the colors of life, blood and rebirth. This was a conventional color, which they used no matter what the actual color of the individual might have been. When the Egyptians chose to depict the races with which they were familiar, they depicted themselves and the Nubians with BLACK SKIN. They depicted Europeans and Semites as white and tan respectively. If you visit the tomb of Ramesis III (1200 B.C.) you will see this firsthand. Furthermore, the most ancient monument in Egypt, the Sphinx, bears the likeness of a Black African and, during the late period, when Herodetus and other Greeks visited Egypt, they described the people as Black skinned with woolly hair: Hence, from the early date of the Sphinx, through Ramesis III and finally the late period, the Egyptians were clearly "Negroid," in spite of the gradual mixture with foreigners. As for blue-eyed Egyptians, this is clearly a fluke. As a matter of fact, it may even be fake. Not even the staunchest racist would claim that the Egyptians had blue eyes. Next, the "mummy evidence" that you mention has lost all credibility. In a recent article in KMT magazine, it was pointed out that grave robbers stacked scores of mummies on top of one another, and later Egyptologists picked and chose at random which mummies they wanted to represent which pharaohs. Since most of the Egyptologists are blatantly negrophobic, we, as Blacks, certainly do not trust the validity of the mummies they have selected, especially when these mummies do not bear the characteristics of the corresponding sculptures and monuments. All of the monuments of Ramesis II depict him with a very broad nose and thick lips-White people have pointed noses and thin lips. It is interesting that you would focus on King Tutankhamen (18th dynasty) to draw a distinction between the Egyptians and the Nubians. The 17th dynasty was of almost pure Nubian origin and the 18th dynasty was founded by the same family. All 18 of these pharaohs and queens were either Black, Negroid or of Black origin. Don't you understand, Sherry, where there was conflict, these were Black people fighting other Black people, just as is happening in parts of Africa today. King Tut's mother and father were Negroid. If you don't accept this from us, then, let us give you the names of a few White scholars who agree: John Wilkinson, Gerald Massey, Christian Desroches-Noblecourt and Alexander von Wuthenau. As a matter of fact, Von Wuthenau says the following about King Tut, which should clarify our position for you: "The features of this king, whose mother was of pure black stock, are almost as Negroid as the ones of his captured Nubian enemies." One of the founders of modern Egyptology was Champollion the younger. He and his Colleagues knew that the ancient Egyptians were not White people. In a letter to his brother, he described the paintings on the tomb of Sesostris I: This is what he said about the White people, who were designated last in the status of human beings: "Finally, the last one is what we call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard, tall stature and very slender, clad in a hairy ox-skin, a veritable savage tattooed on various parts of his body; he is called Tamhou…finally (and I am ashamed to say so, since our race is the last and the most savage in the series), Europeans who, in those remote epochs, frankly did not cut too fine a figure in the world. In this category we must include all blond and white-skinned people living not only in Europe, but Asia as well, their starting point." Finally, even with all of the White suppression of evidence and lies, most of the mummies on display have Negroid features; DNA tests show a genetic relationship between the Egyptians and Nubians. Scholars like Diop and Greenberg have demonstrated that the tongue of the Pharaohs was related to other African languages. Furthermore, if the Egyptians were white and blonde, why didn't the Greeks and Romans say so. They and the Hebrews described the ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with woolly hair. You and your kinsmen may continue to perpetuate white supremacist nonsense; but we as people of African descent are no longer dependent on you for information, thank God. So we will tell our own story, whether you like it or not!!! Legrand H. Clegg II Editor & Publisher, MA'AT news

Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA'AT news
USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 22:27:34 (EST)

This message is in reference to Mr. Harman's comments. The message is that his comments are so "STUPID" and uninformed that I am going to have to take a deep breath before I respond to them. This is just incredible! What is wrong with this person? Why can't people (even white people) come to this site in some form of honesty without all the white lies and slander. To portray our great scholarly and courageous brother Cheikh Anta Diop (whom I named my second son Cheikh after) in this disrespecful and inaccurate fashion is more than slander. I will take a deep breath and then respond to this "STUFF". THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 22:16:27 (EST)

Uncle! I finally got a chance to check out the site. I love it! I think it's great. Congradualations and keep it going.

Brian Clegg <bdclegg@engr.csulb.edu>
Age: 22, Long Beach, CA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 18:37:42 (EST)

For starters Cheik Anta Diop was not an egyptologist he had a Phd. in some sort of science, perhaps physics.In 1990 and 1992 Dr. Shomarka Keita a black bioanthropologist conduted reasearh on Egyptian skulls and found the northern Egyptians had skulls intermediate between north Europeans and Egypts southern neighbors. This study was in the American Journal of American Anthropology or Archeology I forget which one. Secondly, It must be remebered the Ancient Egyptians called their southern neighbors "wretched" Kush or "miserable" Kush which shows the Egyptians thought their southern neighbors were savages. Martin Bernal in his book Black Athena described the northern Egyptians as being a lighter Meditteranian type while the southern Egyptians were dark. Greek writers such as Manilius, Flavius Philistratus, and Arrian all commented on how the Egyptians were lighter than their southern neighbors but the afrocentrists ignore this. Frank Snowden a black classicist from Howard University found those examples of Greek authors. Also Dr.Snowden talks about how Greeks called black people Ethiopian which means "burnt faced".Look at the famous bust of Nefertiti this is a perfect example of a northern Egyptian. She has a tan complexion and very non negroid facial features. She was the Queen of Akhnaten.Salima Ikram and Aidan Dodsan who are real Egyptologists and experts on mummies because they have seen thousands while studying in Egypt have said that the northern Egyptians were a light tan complexion with straight hair and non negroid features while the southern Egyptians were a dark brown and negroid looking people. The problem is that to qualify as black in most countries you must be pretty dark and the northern Egyptians dont qualify as even fairly dark. In South Africa,the Latin American countries and Arab countries light brown is not a black person. The same applies in White countries unless you have black ancestry and it is visible.in the melanin test Diop simply says that the Egyptians are darker than northern Europeans but that is not good enough for me or the greatest expert on mummies in the world Salima Ikram who is an Egyptologist in Egypt as mentioned before. She has seen thousands of mummies and could kill Diop in a debate.I met her in Washington D.C. and she is incredibly intelligent.She is not white either and she has a dark compiexion so I doubt she is racist.We need a commission of archeologists and egyptologists from around the world to study the remains of the Egyptians and reach a real conclusion about their race once and for all.The Greeks lived on the Meditteranian and had light brown skin,straight brown hair, and non negroid features and the northern Egyptians had these same features. With Diop's argument I guess they must all be black.All Diop had to do was test southern Egyptians to get Black Egyptians and it appears that some of his testing was done on southern sites and allowed to stand for all of Egypt.I must be cautious of this problem. According to Rosa David a prominent Egyptologist the Egyptians had different blood types and her study did not even talk about race at all.The Egyptians had different comlexions and to claim them as either "black" or "white" reveals much more about the person making the claim than the Egyptians themselves!!!

Bryan Harman
Age: 24, Richmond, VA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 13:42:32 (EST)

For starters Cheik Anta Diop was not an egyptologist he had a Phd. in some sort of science, perhaps physics.In 1990 and 1992 Dr. Shomarka Keita a black bioanthropologist conduted reasearh on Egyptian skulls and found the northern Egyptians had skulls intermediate between north Europeans and Egypts southern neighbors. This study was in the American Journal of American Anthropology or Archeology I forget which one. Secondly, It must be remebered the Ancient Egyptians called their southern neighbors "wretched" Kush or "miserable" Kush which shows the Egyptians thought their southern neighbors were savages. Martin Bernal in his book Black Athena described the northern Egyptians as being a lighter Meditteranian type while the southern Egyptians were dark. Greek writers such as Manilius, Flavius Philistratus, and Arrian all commented on how the Egyptians were lighter than their southern neighbors but the afrocentrists ignore this. Frank Snowden a black classicist from Howard University found those examples of Greek authors. Also Dr.Snowden talks about how Greeks called black people Ethiopian which means "burnt faced".Look at the famous bust of Nefertiti this is a perfect example of a northern Egyptian. She has a tan complexion and very non negroid facial features. She was the Queen of Akhnaten.Salima Ikram and Aidan Dodsan who are real Egyptologists and experts on mummies because they have seen thousands while studying in Egypt have said that the northern Egyptians were a light tan complexion with straight hair and non negroid features while the southern Egyptians were a dark brown and negroid looking people. The problem is that to qualify as black in most countries you must be pretty dark and the northern Egyptians dont qualify as even fairly dark. In South Africa,the Latin American countries and Arab countries light brown is not a black person. The same applies in White countries unless you have black ancestry and it is visible.in the melanin test Diop simply says that the Egyptians are darker than northern Europeans but that is not good enough for me or the greatest expert on mummies in the world Salima Ikram who is an Egyptologist in Egypt as mentioned before. She has seen thousands of mummies and could kill Diop in a debate.I met her in Washington D.C. and she is incredibly intelligent.She is not white either and she has a dark compiexion so I doubt she is racist.We need a commission of archeologists and egyptologists from around the world to study the remains of the Egyptians and reach a real conclusion about their race once and for all.The Greeks lived on the Meditteranian and had light brown skin,straight brown hair, and non negroid features and the northern Egyptians had these same features. With Diop's argument I guess they must all be black.All Diop had to do was test southern Egyptians to get Black Egyptians and it appears that some of his testing was done on southern sites and allowed to stand for all of Egypt.I must be cautious of this problem. According to Rosa David a prominent Egyptologist the Egyptians had different blood types and her study did not even talk about race at all.The Egyptians had different comlexions and to claim them as either "black" or "white" reveals much more about the person making the claim than the Egyptians themselves!!! I dont have e-mail but please respond by writing to Bryan Harman 300 West Franklin St. Apt. 806 West, Richmond, Va 23220. Hope to hear from you.

Bryan Harman
Age: 24, Richmond, VA USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 13:25:06 (EST)

this message is for tutmose turner in compton california. You are a true revolutionary. I wanted to e-mail you because I am in the Afrikan Student Union in California and I am finding it very hard to organize my comrades behind a central belief. please e-mail me. Your comrade a student in the art of Afrikan Amerikkkan revolution

laila <hetsepshut@excite.com>
USA - Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 00:49:37 (EST)

My dear Mr. Kingpin person, I am sure we all appreciate your most astounding and thought provoking comments but......this site is not for MONKEYS and we are not speaking about MONKEYS. This is not a MONKEY site. Therefore, as profound and awe inspiring as your comments are, I fail to see the relevance. Please, let us converse about our "Black" ancient Egyptian ancestors (no Monkeys please). Thank you. THUTMOS TURNER

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 21:41:10 (EST)

Se alafia ne? It is good that we have brothers and sisters aware and conscious. The new millenium is approaching and our efforts as African people should be focused on nationbuilding, i.e. securing land, developing strategetic economic and socializatioin progams, projects and policies, incorporating a sense of national identity and evolving political platforms instead of the age old political Democratic/Republican favoritism. We have the potential to re-surrect like phoenix from flames just as sure as our ancestors build the khu-tis (pyramids), Zimbabwe, Ghana, Benin and other grand testiments. We are the original people, those who are destined for a great new within the old cycle of reciprocity. Let's network, Let's connect, Let's build, Let's strive. Black People, Black People, beautiful Black People, let no one define your reality except yourself!!!! This includes your past, present and future. Odabo. Ase Ase Ase-O Ire-O!!!

Kwabena Adofo Danquah <kwabena_danquah@hotmail.com>
Minneapolis, MN USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 20:03:20 (EST)

Who gives a f***? The New-World monkeys beat humans to the Americas by hundreds of thousands of years. Yes, there were MONKEYS in the New World before Negroids, Caucasoids, Australoids, Mongoloids, or any other human group. So let's give it a rest, huh?

Kingpin
Pittsburgh, PA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 18:48:42 (EST)

Should have expected it. This is in regard to an article from ABC News titled "First Americans from Europe?" located at http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/firstamericans991101.html ---- Only weeks after skull evidence suggests (even proves) that blacks were first in the Americas, the Europeans try to steal the spotlight and say that their ancestors were first because their spear heads are "sooooo similar." I think I am more apt to believe the skull and skeletal evidence, than spearheads. Europeans want to claim everything for themselves. It is soooo annoying.

Me again <me@anytime>
Age: even older, Smalltown, In USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 17:19:46 (EST)

Yes by Brothers, as the calcified Pineal Melanin deficient trailer trash white boy (Advocate person) said, the Native Americans have indeed endured so many trajadies. However, notice the Advocate thing did not address the fact that the white boy perpetrating GENOCIDE on the Native American was and is the only trajedy. Who splaughtered all the Indians? ANSWER: white boys! The only thing this savage Advocate white boy is sorry about is that it can't go out to rape and kill today. Actually, since 100% of the mass murders and serial killers are white males....he just may be out killing as I write this message. SAVAGE BARBARIAN TRAILER TRASH with no upper lip (chicken lips Advocate)!

Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA - Monday, November 01, 1999 at 16:39:22 (EST)

To: Bro. James Esther: Brother, "EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY". I'm sure you have heard that saying. The whites have been so-called in charge (to some extent) only a very brief period of time in history. Their oppressive terror has only lasted approximately 400 years. That is all! In the larger scheme of time and space, this is really insignificant, and it would be a grave error (an error the we make frequently) to think this is by any means a permanent condition. We are simply in the midst of a dark period of time and one that we will be able to draw knowledge from to eternity! The whites are only a tine MINORITY (less than 10%) and shrinking fast. Thus the reliance of the white man on so-called technology, brutality, geocide, and lies to stay in so-called control. Power is never relinquished voluntarily! NEVER! No brother, the white boy is not that powerful.....he is however a survivor at all cost. They are simply trying to survive. So then, what does it matter if you lie if it is to survive. The object is to stay in the game to survive at "ALL" cost. When a critical mass of Black people stop the negro mentality of thinking of these genetically recessive people as something special over us, stop trying to pray for the enemy and start to "BATTLE" them, when we start to "WORK TOGETHER AND LO